74 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkhour]

darth_lopez wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

From what i read in the confirmewd features thread i still havent seen if loot would be in Mass Effect 3
did i miss anything?

God, I hope not.

The
closest to an inventory I'd like is like 12 slots, representing utility
belt, to hold mods.  If Shep can hold 50 suits of armor and 100 guns...
ugh...

What about the storage room on the normandy? i
don't see why Shep can't Quickly acess a datapad and tell folks what to
sell and what to store? Or say a storage room on the kodiac or even a
small section dedicated to extra suits in a vehicle Or a back pack?

Kinda hard to wear a backpack when it's covering the guns on your back.

To your other comments, are you saying every time you pick up a new weapon you run back to the drop point and store it in a vehicle? Don't think that will work. Or do you think there are teleporters in the ME universe that will teleport items to the Normandy? I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

[BeefoTheBold]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...


For me, I really loved the ability to wander around the galaxy browsing through stores to see if I'd find a rare piece of armor like a Colossus light armor. I enjoyed being able to customize my gun with different types of ammunition. This added depth to the gameplay for me and made it feel more like a RPG and less like an artificially constrained shooter. It also made the galaxy feel larger when there was 30 different types of rifles created by different competing companies.

Uh, for a diverse galaxy with a big number of manufacturers, why do all of the combat armor look the same, except with a different color? Are you going to tell me that a state-of-the-art body armor is going to look like it's made from cosplay materials?

What's the fun in a shop that sells exactly 4 different items and never restocks with new surprises? More to the point, where's the realism with that? Taking it one step further, doesn't the galaxy feel a heck of a lot smaller if there are only a handful of different items to choose from?

Uh, what's the fun in buying from a shop that only restocks when you level up? (yes, that's right, they only restock when you gain a level) Last time I checked, by the time you get level 60, you're not able to buy new items in subsequent playthroughs unless you want to start another New Game+

Not sure I'm understanding your point here. You seem to be saying two things:

1. Yeah there was plenty of variety, but it all looked alike so it didn't matter
2. Shops only restocked when you gained a level

Not sure what direction you're arguing here. Are you saying because there's room for improvement in these two things they should be taken out or are you saying because there's room for improvement they should be improved?

To #1 above, I'd absolutely love to see a greater variety to the "look and feel" of arms and armor, but it didn't really feel like it was THAT limited in ME1, certainly less limited than it was in ME2 IMO.

To #2 above, you have to tie the restocking to a passage of time mechanic somehow. Maybe level-up isn't the optimal mechanic, but you can't have it restock literally every time you exit out of the conversation with the shop keeper.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 05 juin 2011 - 11:15 .

[Dave666]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Uh, what's the fun in buying from a shop that only restocks when you level up? (yes, that's right, they only restock when you gain a level) Last time I checked, by the time you get level 60, you're not able to buy new items in subsequent playthroughs unless you want to start another New Game+

Which game is that from? I ask 'cause it certainly wasn't like that in ME:1, shops restocked whenever you went to another hub type world and back, it had absolutely nothing to do with gaining levels whatsoever.

[Dave666]

*Double post. Move along...nothing to see here...*

Modifié par Dave666, 05 juin 2011 - 11:12 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Dave666 wrote...

Which game is that from? I ask 'cause it certainly wasn't like that in ME:1, shops restocked whenever you went to another hub type world and back, it had absolutely nothing to do with gaining levels whatsoever.

Uh, actually, yeah, it did have things to do with gaining a level, and this is coming from someone who does 40+hour playthroughs of ME1.

[Dave666]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Which game is that from? I ask 'cause it certainly wasn't like that in ME:1, shops restocked whenever you went to another hub type world and back, it had absolutely nothing to do with gaining levels whatsoever.

Uh, actually, yeah, it did have things to do with gaining a level, and this is coming from someone who does 40+hour playthroughs of ME1.

Did you ever speak to Bob the requisitions guy? (I always call him Bob, don't ask me why).  If you ask him when he restocks he'll tell you that he does it whenever you go to a hub world.  Thats sort of a hint.

Say that you wanted to restock the shops on the Citadel after checking them.  First fly to somewhere like Noveria, get off the Normandy, head to the lift, go down and the game auto-saves, now head back to the Normandy and fly back to the Citadel. Check the shops and what do you know?  They've restocked!  No levels gained at all.

Modifié par Dave666, 05 juin 2011 - 11:23 .

[Lunatic LK47]

BeefoTheBold wrote...



Not sure I'm understanding your point here. You seem to be saying two things:

1. Yeah there was plenty of variety, but it all looked alike so it didn't matter

Pretty much. All of the human armors have exactly the same model with some very minor appearance differences (i.e. There's a universal light/medium/heavy armor), and all it had going for it are some stat differences and a different color, where at least 3/4ths of the entire inventory items are generally useless..

2. Shops only restocked when you gained a level

Pretty much a big problem with gathering equipment. For all of the *****ing I had with Pinnacle Station, at least  Shepard's apartment allowed me to buy more Spectre Weapons level X and weapon mods I needed for it just so I could "pimp out my squad."

To #1 above, I'd absolutely love to see a greater variety to the "look and feel" of arms and armor, but didn't really like it was THAT limited in ME1, certainly less limited than it was in ME2 IMO.

At least BioWare *TRIED* to make the armor components look different. Definitely a step in the right direction, just needs some more work with getting different types of armor parts. (Just hope DLC isn't a sole solution a la Kestrel Armor)
 

To #2 above, you have to tie the restocking to a passage of time mechanic somehow. Maybe level-up isn't the optimal mechanic, but you can't have it restock literally every time you exit out of the conversation with the shop keeper.

I see the problem here, and they should have allowed the completion of planets as a passage of time as well, but on the other hand, with ME2's system, you'd be wasting a whole ton of fuel just to travel back and forth from a distant star cluster to a nearby Relay just to get that new item on Omega and the Citadel. It's a lose-lose situation either way.

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 05 juin 2011 - 11:26 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Dave666 wrote...

Did you ever speak to Bob the requisitions guy? (I always call him Bob, don't ask me why).  If you ask him when he restocks he'll tell you that he does it whenever you go to a hub world.  Thats sort of a hint.

Uh, I used every available vendor INCLUDING Bob. I'm talking about buying NEW ITEMS. Sadly, if you want to circumvent the randomized drop rates to get that desired armor, you had to rely on Save/Reload just to get that Collosus Armor that you wanted.

Say that you wanted to restock the shops on teh Citadel after checking them.  First fly to somewhere like Noveria, get off the Normandy, head to the lift, go down and the game auto-saves, now head back to the Normandy and fly back to the Citadel. Check the shops and what do you know?  They've restocked!  No levels gained at all.

There's something called Save/Reload, and even if I bought ONE ITEM, THE VENDOR'S STOCK IS PERMANENTLY THE SAME UNTIL THE NEXT LEVEL-UP.

[Dave666]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Did you ever speak to Bob the requisitions guy? (I always call him Bob, don't ask me why).  If you ask him when he restocks he'll tell you that he does it whenever you go to a hub world.  Thats sort of a hint.

Uh, I used every available vendor INCLUDING Bob. I'm talking about buying NEW ITEMS. Sadly, if you want to circumvent the randomized drop rates to get that desired armor, you had to rely on Save/Reload just to get that Collosus Armor that you wanted.

Say that you wanted to restock the shops on teh Citadel after checking them.  First fly to somewhere like Noveria, get off the Normandy, head to the lift, go down and the game auto-saves, now head back to the Normandy and fly back to the Citadel. Check the shops and what do you know?  They've restocked!  No levels gained at all.

There's something called Save/Reload, and even if I bought ONE ITEM, THE VENDOR'S STOCK IS PERMANENTLY THE SAME UNTIL THE NEXT LEVEL-UP.

No, it is not!  That is not the way it worked, at all!  What I said is exactly the way it worked. I've litterally played the game to death, I know what I'm talking about.

[Lunatic LK47]

Dave666 wrote...


No, it is not!  That is not the way it worked, at all!  What I said is exactly the way it worked. I've litterally played the game to death, I know what I'm talking about.

I've literally played the game to death myself, and this is MY experience. I always traveled between the hub planets AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES and the STOCK WAS PERMANENT AFTER ONE PURCHASE.

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 05 juin 2011 - 11:40 .

[Someone With Mass]

I like the upgrade system in ME2 better. Just needs a little more diversity.

[Dave666]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...


No, it is not!  That is not the way it worked, at all!  What I said is exactly the way it worked. I've litterally played the game to death, I know what I'm talking about.

I've literally played the game to death myself, and this is MY experience. I always traveled between the hub planets AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES and the STOCK WAS PERMANENT AFTER ONE PURCHASE.

Next time you play ME:1 try it.  The trick is to make sure that you get the game to auto-save when you're planetside.  I've done it a million times, its how I got the decent gear and it didn't take me very long at all.

[BeefoTheBold]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...



Not sure I'm understanding your point here. You seem to be saying two things:

1. Yeah there was plenty of variety, but it all looked alike so it didn't matter

Pretty much. All of the human armors have exactly the same model with some very minor appearance differences (i.e. There's a universal light/medium/heavy armor), and all it had going for it are some stat differences and a different color, where at least 3/4ths of the entire inventory items are generally useless..

2. Shops only restocked when you gained a level

Pretty much a big problem with gathering equipment. For all of the *****ing I had with Pinnacle Station, at least  Shepard's apartment allowed me to buy more Spectre Weapons level X and weapon mods I needed for it just so I could "pimp out my squad."

To #1 above, I'd absolutely love to see a greater variety to the "look and feel" of arms and armor, but didn't really like it was THAT limited in ME1, certainly less limited than it was in ME2 IMO.

At least BioWare *TRIED* to make the armor components look different. Definitely a step in the right direction, just needs some more work with getting different types of armor parts. (Just hope DLC isn't a sole solution a la Kestrel Armor)
 

To #2 above, you have to tie the restocking to a passage of time mechanic somehow. Maybe level-up isn't the optimal mechanic, but you can't have it restock literally every time you exit out of the conversation with the shop keeper.

I see the problem here, and they should have allowed the completion of planets as a passage of time as well, but on the other hand, with ME2's system, you'd be wasting a whole ton of fuel just to travel back and forth from a distant star cluster to a nearby Relay just to get that new item on Omega and the Citadel. It's a lose-lose situation either way.

Agreed that I don't want the solution to non-differentiated armor to be DLC. The DLC policy with recent Bioware releases has really gotten out of control and cheap. Leaves a sour taste in the mouth, which is never what you want your customers to have.

With regards to the passage of time, maybe the solution is to actually introduce a clock to the game? Granted, "game time" and "real time" wouldn't be the same, but it would be better than tying it to whether or not you leave the planet or level-up.

You could even use the clock for other items. Maybe the "best" solution to a quest becomes impossible if too much time passes? Or maybe some quests become unsolveable at all if you putter around too much? Great games like Fallout 2 and Star Control 2 have had clocks in their game and it has worked out nicely.

[Lunatic LK47]

BeefoTheBold wrote...


You could even use the clock for other items. Maybe the "best" solution to a quest becomes impossible if too much time passes? Or maybe some quests become unsolveable at all if you putter around too much? Great games like Fallout 2 and Star Control 2 have had clocks in their game and it has worked out nicely.

Problem with this solution would be basically telling the players "Sorry, you can't level up because you spent too much time in your inventory." All this will promote is another Save/Reload spamfest just to circumvent this problem. I'm the completionist type of gamer, and while this may not be a problem for me (since I spent only an hour or two tops dedicated to giving my entire squad the maximized gear in ME1), this will be a problem for the less hardcore gamer.

[Black Raptor]

Dave666 wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Did you ever speak to Bob the requisitions guy? (I always call him Bob, don't ask me why).  If you ask him when he restocks he'll tell you that he does it whenever you go to a hub world.  Thats sort of a hint.

Uh, I used every available vendor INCLUDING Bob. I'm talking about buying NEW ITEMS. Sadly, if you want to circumvent the randomized drop rates to get that desired armor, you had to rely on Save/Reload just to get that Collosus Armor that you wanted.

Say that you wanted to restock the shops on teh Citadel after checking them.  First fly to somewhere like Noveria, get off the Normandy, head to the lift, go down and the game auto-saves, now head back to the Normandy and fly back to the Citadel. Check the shops and what do you know?  They've restocked!  No levels gained at all.

There's something called Save/Reload, and even if I bought ONE ITEM, THE VENDOR'S STOCK IS PERMANENTLY THE SAME UNTIL THE NEXT LEVEL-UP.

No, it is not!  That is not the way it worked, at all!  What I said is exactly the way it worked. I've litterally played the game to death, I know what I'm talking about.

Probably because leveling up was so rediculously quick that, while visiting hubworlds, you gained a level or two. 

Try playing the game at lvl 60 all the way through and see if there is ever a single change in stock. There isn't. 

[darth_lopez]

Darkhour wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

From what i read in the confirmewd features thread i still havent seen if loot would be in Mass Effect 3
did i miss anything?

God, I hope not.

The
closest to an inventory I'd like is like 12 slots, representing utility
belt, to hold mods.  If Shep can hold 50 suits of armor and 100 guns...
ugh...

What about the storage room on the normandy? i
don't see why Shep can't Quickly acess a datapad and tell folks what to
sell and what to store? Or say a storage room on the kodiac or even a
small section dedicated to extra suits in a vehicle Or a back pack?

Kinda hard to wear a backpack when it's covering the guns on your back.

To your other comments, are you saying every time you pick up a new weapon you run back to the drop point and store it in a vehicle? Don't think that will work. Or do you think there are teleporters in the ME universe that will teleport items to the Normandy? I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Yeah, the back pack was just pointing out 1 obvioius explanation though a really weird one.

Also on the other Comments That's what we had to do in ME 2 wasn't it? the inventory was there just stored and managed much differently and very simplisticly to the point it was detrimental to the rpg gameplay. I was mostly just pointing out there are ways to store items other than magic pocket dimension. It's not necessarily shep holding 50 suits of armor  on his person (it was in ME 1 not ME 2) inventory can be done in numerous ways that offers more than 12 slots but doesn't break from traditional methods of storage. Personally i'd prefer an inventory system like ME 2s over one that only allows for only 12 slots of equipment.

[Bluko]

Inventory like Mass Effect? No.

Will there be more options for weapons and armor in ME3? Yes, if the Devs are being honest. As long as it's bit more substantial (be nice to see some stats too) when choosing Weapons and Armor I won't complain.

But yeah don't expect to be picking up lots of new weapons and armor everywhere as in ME1 It's going to be like ME2, but with more options available.

Modifié par Bluko, 06 juin 2011 - 05:07 .

[tjzsf]

Inventory in ME1 could have easily been solved by not having so many drops/containers and by a sorting feature in the items table.
Also, funding my Spectre missions via a gunrunning side business was amusing.

[AlanC9]

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Gradually upgrading equipment to superior sets over the course of the game is a tried-and-true approach to RPG. It doesn't have to be all at once, and I agree with you that you should have to work for it rather than just having it fall in your lap, but I'm a big fan of gradualling improving a player's equipment as part of the reward system for playing a game.

So RPGs should do this because this is what RPGs do?

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

However manufacturing works on the Normandy, the real problem is why Shepard doesn't start with the best equipment the Alliance has.

DRM? Cerberus is lazy?

Though in ME1 I think the idea was that Shepard did start with the best the alliance had and it was simply not as top of the line compared to the same armour in its class.

[Aimi]

In Exile wrote...

DRM? Cerberus is lazy?

Though in ME1 I think the idea was that Shepard did start with the best the alliance had and it was simply not as top of the line compared to the same armour in its class.

Nah, Onyx I armor is a long way from Onyx X or Guardian X - same with the guns, amps, and omni-tools.  But then again, this was the same game that prevented an allegedly veteran soldier from so much as hitting the broad side of a barn with her sniper rifle until she slaughtered a couple hundred hapless mercenaries and geth.  I don't think they were overly concerned with the plausibility of the leveling system.

The best take on the leveling system in the context of a given RPG was in KotOR II, when the Masters - if you didn't kill them already - accused you of becoming a black hole in the Force, a Jedi succubus, pillaging the energy of those you slew and of your companions.  They were wrong, of course, but it was still awesome.

Modifié par daqs, 06 juin 2011 - 09:27 .

[Darkhour]

darth_lopez wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

From what i read in the confirmewd features thread i still havent seen if loot would be in Mass Effect 3
did i miss anything?

God, I hope not.

The
closest to an inventory I'd like is like 12 slots, representing utility
belt, to hold mods.  If Shep can hold 50 suits of armor and 100 guns...
ugh...

What about the storage room on the normandy? i
don't see why Shep can't Quickly acess a datapad and tell folks what to
sell and what to store? Or say a storage room on the kodiac or even a
small section dedicated to extra suits in a vehicle Or a back pack?

Kinda hard to wear a backpack when it's covering the guns on your back.

To your other comments, are you saying every time you pick up a new weapon you run back to the drop point and store it in a vehicle? Don't think that will work. Or do you think there are teleporters in the ME universe that will teleport items to the Normandy? I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Yeah, the back pack was just pointing out 1 obvioius explanation though a really weird one.

Also on the other Comments That's what we had to do in ME 2 wasn't it? the inventory was there just stored and managed much differently and very simplisticly to the point it was detrimental to the rpg gameplay. I was mostly just pointing out there are ways to store items other than magic pocket dimension. It's not necessarily shep holding 50 suits of armor  on his person (it was in ME 1 not ME 2) inventory can be done in numerous ways that offers more than 12 slots but doesn't break from traditional methods of storage. Personally i'd prefer an inventory system like ME 2s over one that only allows for only 12 slots of equipment.

In ME2 items were on the ship. The only things you could pick up were guns.

In ME1 items were on Shepard's person. All 180 items  ranging from full suits of armor to shotguns.

When I said 12 slots for mods I was referring to what Shepard can carry on his person so that he can mod on the fly. Not that his entire collection of weapons, armors, mods, etc. be limited to 12 items period. I'm just saying I don't want a return to ME1's ridiculous inventory.

I prefer Mass Effect 2 where looks were more important than stats. One thing I couldn't stand about ME1 was the horrid armor designs and terrible color scheme. You'd have a sweet techno ninja armor like guardian (III), but the  hideous big bird yellow explorer (VI) had way better stats. And the stats mattered and could mean life or death. Now that I'm better I stick to looks regardless. I'm playing ME1 now and I'm only allowing people to wear particular sets. Ashley can only wear phoenix, Kaidan guardian, Shepard onyx (for the N7), etc. I'm still wearing the Onyx I armor from the very start. I assume it's like playing on Hardcore or Insanity (as I can die pretty quick if I'm not careful), but without the battles of attrition. Which brings me to another problem with ME1: Not being able to buy what you want. Everything randomly showing up in stores and if you lack the doe when it's there you're out of luck. You could make all the money in the galaxy, but couldn't have any tangible concrete use for it bewteen the random store stocks (normal stocked with crap) and all the crate/enemy loot. 

[Cancer Puppet]

LPPrince wrote...

ME2 had no loot or inventory.

Since I'm betting there's no inventory in ME3, guess what that means.

Two things-

A. No loot
B. Muenster Cheese

The latter makes me happy, the former makes me sadfaced with man tears.

The closest we're getting to loot it probably picking up enemy weapons and using them similar to the Call of Duty's in the World.

All I can say is that muenster cheese is cause for celebration.

[In Exile]

daqs wrote...
Nah, Onyx I armor is a long way from Onyx X or Guardian X - same with the guns, amps, and omni-tools.

I thought the numbered line didn't count a real model but rather was just power progression, and so the only actual lore differences were models. But then I had to try really hard to make sense of that whole mess.

But then again, this was the same game that prevented an allegedly veteran soldier from so much as hitting the broad side of a barn with her sniper rifle until she slaughtered a couple hundred hapless mercenaries and geth.  I don't think they were overly concerned with the plausibility of the leveling system.

Well, they had to dumb down the FPS elements to appeal to the RPG crowd.

The best take on the leveling system in the context of a given RPG was in KotOR II, when the Masters - if you didn't kill them already - accused you of becoming a black hole in the Force, a Jedi succubus, pillaging the energy of those you slew and of your companions.  They were wrong, of course, but it was still awesome.

I thought that was supposed to mean exactly what you did, and leveling just represented your power sucking.

[Dave666]

In Exile wrote...

Well, they had to dumb down the FPS elements to appeal to the RPG crowd.

WTF?  Bioware, a company renowned for making RPG's had to dumb something down to appeal to their core fanbase?  Do you not realize how absurd that sounds?

Whenever I play ME:1 I never feel like I'm playing a shooter, I feel like I'm playing an RPG with guns.  Its standard practice in RPG's that the players character gets better at using weapons and skills as the game progresses, RPG players are familiar with this mechanic and just roll with it.  I only play ME:2 when I'm in the mood for a shooter. When does the player get better at using weapons in ME:2?  Why does ME:2 have less than half of the avaliable skills that ME:1 had, and far less skill points to spend?  Which is dumbed down here?

Modifié par Dave666, 06 juin 2011 - 05:13 .