73 réponses à ce sujet

[themonty72]

That might not be much of a topic maybe it is. Players say your choices didnt matter in act 3 because no manner who you sided with you achievet the same results. I kind of think  the reason why your Hawk had to killed Orsino because he turns to blood magic and you had to protect kirkwall before he got out into to city. Everyone knows that. What  i pointing toward the reason why your choices didnt manner..This  is the reason Orsino tuns to blood magic is out of fear,  i dont think he belive that your hawk,the mages and himself could defeat Meredith thats proves that Meredith was more powerful than Orsino.. And the reason I think your choices didnt matter if you choose the templars and had to kill Meredith is because she didnt trust you either. Your Champion Hawk was threat to her are you could blame it on the staue as Varrick said.Yeah I might be wrong and you might be right. Tell me your thoughts

Modifié par themonty72, 06 juin 2011 - 09:53 .

[TEWR]

On a mage run Orsino had no reason to use the Harvester ritual for various reasons:


1) I'm helping him for the love of God! He thinks becoming a mindless super-abomination is going to help things?
2) Hawke has killed Dragons, demons, abominations, Profane big and small, Templars, Mages, corpses, and thugs. An army of Templars don't stand a chance. Especially when everyone finally finds out their commander is a raving lunatic later on (of course there's no way for Hawke and company to know that will happen).


What the game needs to do is account for whether or not I save all the mages. I've saved the mages in both Broken Circle's finale and prior to the scene where Orsino becomes Harvestino and they all die from a massive heart-attack brought on by a serious fungal infection of the big toe.

Fear or no fear, there was no justifiable reason for someone who is still clearly sane to do something that stupid on a pro-mage run. On a pro-templar run he seems to lose all of his sanity so it made sense.

The game could've used the thin Veil as a way for the Harvester to appear on a mage playthrough. A Pride Demon could've possessed a corpse and used the Harvester Blood Ritual to become.... well... a Harvester. Orsino could help defeat it and then help you defeat Meredith. Seriously, if the mages are going to spread word to the other Circles, who better to do it than the First Enchanter?

It also didn't help that the battle was a complete walk in the park. The mages could've won easily if they had just employed some tactics like launching fireballs at Templar ships and using the funnel to their advantage.

[YeGodz]

The intent, I think, was to portray siding with the mages as a lost cause, which would have made Orsino's crazy "I wanna be a Harvester" moment more...understandable, I suppose. And while there's some dialogue to that effect, it doesn't mesh with the whole Hawke and co. slaughtering waves of templars right in front of the guy.

Anyway, its hard to sell players on the idea that the final battle might be unwinnable. ME2 spent the whole game selling the suicide mission as an actual suicide mission, just because that sort of thing runs counter to expectations. Even if the combat in that scene was harder, it'd still require more build-up to make the player consider the possibility that it was hopeless.

[TEWR]

People would argue the Blight was unwinnable with only 3-4 Grey Wardens and what armies you gathered. In fact that was the entire premise of the game. Facing a threat that you had no real hope of defeating, and yet you did.

The mages could've easily won this battle, or at the very least bought enough time for all the mages to escape and warn the other Circles which would still count as losing the first battle of the war. Instead, we're just given a battle that's too easy and we don't see anything like a true RoA. We don't explore much of the Gallows despite it being a fortress.

[WhiteKnyght]

I can think of one good reason. They were both homicidal idiots who tried to kill you for no good reason.

Self Defense FTW!

[Kasces]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

People would argue the Blight was unwinnable with only 3-4 Grey Wardens and what armies you gathered. In fact that was the entire premise of the game. Facing a threat that you had no real hope of defeating, and yet you did.

The mages could've easily won this battle, or at the very least bought enough time for all the mages to escape and warn the other Circles which would still count as losing the first battle of the war. Instead, we're just given a battle that's too easy and we don't see anything like a true RoA. We don't explore much of the Gallows despite it being a fortress.

Honestly, I don't think Ori ever thought the mages were going to win. A whole army is coming and while you can say "I've killed everything short of the Maker we got this lulz"...still.  They should have executed the feeling of hopelessness of the whole situation far better imo that's why it is so left field. Gameplay tells you one thing and the story is progressing the other way.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

2) Hawke has killed Dragons, demons, abominations, Profane big and small, Templars, Mages, corpses, and thugs. An army of Templars don't stand a chance. Especially when everyone finally finds out their commander is a raving lunatic later on (of course there's no way for Hawke and company to know that will happen).

The funny thing is, you're only listing things Hawke has actually done. Thanks to Varric, Hawke is credited with countless feats that never even happened on top of all that.

[YeGodz]

You know, it occurs to me that the whole thing could have been handled better by having Orsino or one of the other mages mention Quentin in that scene. At least then Orsino's freak out would have some immediate context to it.

[berelinde]

The problem I have with the ending is that it makes perfect sense for a pro-templar PC... and absollutely ZERO sense for a pro-mage PC. By this, I mean pretty much everything that happens in Act 3. It's as they originally intended divergent paths through the act, depending on which faction you favored, but somebody looked at the calendar and said "Wow, March 8th is a lot closer than we thought. Is there any way we can adapt what we've already written for the mage sympathizers?"

[Ferretinabun]

I think DG said somewhere that we needed Orsino to turn Harvester to keep the mage/templar decision on a par. Otherwise, people might have felt that supporting the mages was the 'real/preferred/better' option when Meredith goes all Big Bad.

Which I can kind of understand, but yes it does still annoy me. I think we can handle a complex moral choice without EITHER side turning bat**** evil crazy. As it is it feels very forced and nonsensical.

In fact I think this is just another example of DA2's biggest flaw - the virtually constant immersion-breaking.

[LobselVith8]

The developers admitted Orsino becoming a Harvester was simply to prevent the mage option from being "the good choice," which is why it makes absolutely no sense for a pro-mage Hawke to get Orsino turning into a Harvester, but this is the same game where my pro-mage apostate Hawke has to go through "Best Served Cold" and have everyone claim he's working for Meredith after he publicly denounced her.

[YeGodz]

And here I thought three acts full of blood mages and abominations had already made that point. With Meredith/Templars, you know going in that you're in, at best, a morally gray area. I'd think that the time to add some ambiguity to Orsino would be before you opted to side with him.

[mesmerizedish]

The reason I had to defeat Meredith and Orsino was that they were trying to kill me.

[TEWR]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The reason I had to defeat Meredith and Orsino was that they were trying to kill me.

well if you want to get technical about it.....

[Crow_22]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The reason I had to defeat Meredith and Orsino was that they were trying to kill me.

I'm with this guy. Lol.

[hoorayforicecream]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The developers admitted Orsino becoming a Harvester was simply to prevent the mage option from being "the good choice," which is why it makes absolutely no sense for a pro-mage Hawke to get Orsino turning into a Harvester, but this is the same game where my pro-mage apostate Hawke has to go through "Best Served Cold" and have everyone claim he's working for Meredith after he publicly denounced her.

Where did they say this?

[Icy Magebane]

In a way, choices mattered, as you were allowed to sort of set the tone of the story and decide on what Hawke's outlook would be... but on the other hand, a lot of the decisions you make led to the same outcomes... I can't really say that choices mattered in terms of impact on the world, but they did matter in terms of the way the game played out for each version of Hawke.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The developers admitted Orsino becoming a Harvester was simply to prevent the mage option from being "the good choice," which is why it makes absolutely no sense for a pro-mage Hawke to get Orsino turning into a Harvester, but this is the same game where my pro-mage apostate Hawke has to go through "Best Served Cold" and have everyone claim he's working for Meredith after he publicly denounced her.

The part about Orsino going Harvester that bothers me most is WHEN he does it - during a complete lull in the battle, he decides to change into a Harvester - and attack the people fighting with him, rather than going out the gate and attacking the Templars.  To me, that's the biggest "FAIL" moment of the whole thing.

And all they really needed to do to balance the pro-mage v pro-templar sides was have a choice of final boss, much like Branka or Carridan - side with Meredith,  they can show the mages winning the battle, until the end when you see Orsino has become a Harvester, thus making all the fears about dangerous mages come true.

Alternatively, side with the mages, and you face super-Meredith at the end, making the pro-mage fears of insane out of control Templars come true.

Frankly, fighting both no matter what remains a "this makes no sense" moment for me.

[Silfren]

Icy Magebane wrote...

In a way, choices mattered, as you were allowed to sort of set the tone of the story and decide on what Hawke's outlook would be... but on the other hand, a lot of the decisions you make led to the same outcomes... I can't really say that choices mattered in terms of impact on the world, but they did matter in terms of the way the game played out for each version of Hawke.

I don't really understand that.  I've seen quite a few people insist that the "tone" of the world is entirely different based on Hawke's "decisions," and whether her personality is aggressive, humorous, or diplomatic, but I honestly don't see it.  I've played different Hawkes in order to play each personality tone consistently throughout the entire game, and make different choices with each playthrough, but I never noticed any real distinction in the overall feel, none at all. 

Modifié par Silfren, 06 juin 2011 - 03:02 .

[Icy Magebane]

@Silfren: Basically, the story can be wildly different based on whether you support mages or not, or whether you side with the Qunari or Mother Petrice. Those are just two examples, but I think they give the game a completely different feel based on how you approach certain situations. Now, don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that these decisions are actually important, since no matter what you do, the Qunari will attack and Meredith will go crazy. I'm only saying that it's possible to see the game differently based on whatever mindset you decide to go with. Picking a dominant personality also has in impact on this, but it's minor. I'm talking more about who you decide to kill and who you spare, the fate of your sibling at the end of Act 1... things like that.

There is some flexibility in what story gets told and how you see it... even if most of the big decisions have inevitable outcomes.