397 réponses à ce sujet

[ShaggyWolf]

Warlock Adam wrote...

patocerda wrote...

XavierHollywood wrote...

damned if you do, damned if you dont. I feel sorry for Bioware sometimes. Here we have one of gaming's top studios doing everything in their power to make the best possible game they are capable of and all their supposed "fans" do is **** and moan about it.

The fans cry too much story was shown in the build up to ME2. Ok, says Bioware, we will focus on the gameplay mechanics more for 3 so as not to spoil anything. Then of course, those very same people start complaining there isnt enough character and story elements shown for ME3. And also, I just cannot comprehend how making the gameplay better then ever equals a negativity to some of these so called fans.

As a fan of video games and a lover of every genre (RPGs being my fav), im proud of the direction Bioware is going in. Proud of the fact that they can see outside the box and offer to fans a new take on what an RPG can be. Keep doing what you are doing Bioware. You are making fantastic strides and deserve to be strongly commended for it. While the haters continue to get their panties in a bunch, the rest of us will marvel at and enjoy what is shaping up to be a monumental conclusion to the ME series.

Quoted for truth guys. Hear, hear!

Agreed. Thank god for sense.

Normally I wouldn't do this, but since BW actually reads these threads I feel the need to state that I agree with Xavier. What we've seen of ME3 so far has put me in awe. Everything is looking incredible so far. And for the record, I love the soldier's tech blade, and I can't wait to use it. I especially loved the assassination that Shep did in the extended walkthrough. I plan to try and do that all the time.

[deathlord413]

Terror_K wrote...

You're sort of right, but in the wrong way. The gaming industry isn't really evolving because gamers aren't. Gaming has become more mainstream and thus the games the mainstream gamer wants aren't terribly complex. Basically the majority all want these simple action games with a few light RPG elements and a bit of a story driving them, and because of that that's what every game developer is making these days. When you look at most of the games coming out, especially the AAA titles, there really isn't a lot of difference between them at all: they're all these story-driven action titles with a few mild RPG and/or customisation options for flavour. Gaming is becoming generic because --with a few rare exceptions-- almost every studio is trying to pander to the same big audience rather than just making their own games that have originality or freshness to them.

There's a reason one of the best games ever is the original Deus Ex, a game that is over 10 years old now and hasn't been topped: because nothing has come along and really tried to be equal or more than that and gaming pretty much peaked around that time. Gaming is only innovating on a technical and technology scale, but not on an overall gameplay scale. Gameplay is games is getting simpler and simpler as time goes on, and every time there is a small leap here or there, it seems to be simplified and watered down the next time.

Baldur's Gate and NWN are still great IPs and the reason they "don't hold up" today isn't so much because they "don't hold up" and are out of date, but because they are not mainstream gaming's currently flavour. They aren't what the vast majority of gamers want these days, because they see them as needlessly complex and too slow. They are too nerdy, aren't action-packed enough and require too much fiddling that gets in the way of the core gameplay. It's not that they don't have a place, it's that gaming studios and developers these days don't want to give them one. They're too much of a risk when they can just throw out another generic action title like everybody else and make some easy money, that will increase if said action title becomes a particular hit. Game companies are no longer making games to innovate, to be works of art or naturally be what they should: their engineering them as licences to print money and nothing else. And it's a shame BioWare has now fallen into the same trap.

This is actually what I meant by my comment. The mainstream will always control an industry and therfore people like us who are in a minority will normally be left behind. What I meant by gamers not evolving is that there aren't as many indie devolopers as there used to be. Most of these big games were started in people garages by geeks who were seen as outcasts. Now that the outcasts have shown that they can make millions everybody wants to make games wich makes getting into the companies difficult and the little indie developers just can't compete because they don't have the resources that these big guys do.

Modifié par deathlord413, 07 juin 2011 - 02:17 .

[XFemShepX]

Seriously, some of you guys need to chill.  People are actually allowed to have opinions, you know, and they might not agree with your own.  We don't have to attack each other.

For what it's worth, Terror, I agree with you. 

[Terror_K]

deathlord413 wrote...

This is actually what I meant by my comment. The mainstream will always control an industry and therfore people like us who are in a minority will normally be left behind. What I meant by gamers not evolving is that there aren't as many indie devolopers as there used to be. Most of these big games were started in people garages by geeks who were seen as outcasts. Now that the outcasts have shown that they can make millions everybody wants to make games wich makes getting into the companies difficult and the little indie developers just can't compete because they don't have the resources that these big guys do.

Well, the thing is, it's only really indie game makers you can go to now for originality. It used to be that even the gaming bigwigs would offer a good degree of originality in their output and we'd have a wide range of varied games and genres, and that even within the genres themselves there'd be a good degree of originality. But now everybody is just making these same action-hybrid affairs. When it comes down to it there really isn't that much difference between the Assassin Creed titles and Infamous, Prototype, Uncharted, Batman AA, Just Cause, etc. and on top of that now Tomb Raider is getting rebooted into a gritty Uncharted clone and the new Hitman was announced along with the term "more accessible" immediately tacked on and developers saying they want to make it appeal more to the common gamer. I'm quite frankly sick of seeing the terms "more accessible" and "streamlined" because they're just developer buzzwords that really mean "dumbed down" in the end.

[slimgrin]

I'll be honest. The Skyrim gameplay blows the ME3 trailer out of the water. It just looks hugely ambitious, while ME3 looks cinematic, but very familiar.

[clopin]

Guys, we have less than ten minutes of gameplay footage to go by. We have what? A minute long gameplay trailer, a three minute gameplay video, and a five minute extended video? Even in Mass Effect 1, that was hardly enough time to show the RPG and shooting elements, let them focus on one thing at a time, otherwise we'd be complaining about how disorganized their presentation would be.

Edit: Forgot about the Legion scene. I guess that bumps it up to twelve minutes of actual gameplay to judge.

Modifié par clopin, 07 juin 2011 - 02:53 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

First, the E3 footage is pretty damn impressive.

Second, people like to complain for the sake of complaining. Too much PMS, even if you are a guy.

[InfiniteCuts]

clopin wrote...

Guys, we have less than ten minutes of gameplay footage to go by. We have what? A minute long gameplay trailer, a three minute gameplay video, and a five minute extended video? Even in Mass Effect 1, that was hardly enough time to show the RPG and shooting elements, let them focus on one thing at a time, otherwise we'd be complaining about how disorganized their presentation would be.

I think it's fair to say that what has been shown at E3 is sufficient for existing fans to form an idea of what ME3 will be like.  ME1 had less content shown in its pre-launch E3 and, even today, you can see just how different BioWare's approach was.  Everyone expects us to give BioWare (and other devs) the benefit of the doubt but I think it should be the other way around for a change... I think you underestimate the fans when you tell them "we've only shown 5 minutes of content" etc.  Those were arguably some of the most precious minutes they had to demonstrate the game to us and BioWare opts for all-out action gameplay.  There isn't much reading-between-the-lines needed here.  You're kidding yourself if you think ME3 won't be geared towards action gameplay at this point.

[Therefore_I_Am]

MJRick wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...

KingGato wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

I wasn't very pleased with the reveal at this year's E3.

They got up, started talking about the "decision impact of previous games" for the core gamers and then....dropped it and went straight into an action-heavy trailer and demonstration.

It felt like checking off a box, "We've gotten feedback that our core fans aren't pleased recently with our games feeling like they aren't having any impact for the decisions they make. We need to address that. Let's say something at E3."

While it's nice that they're hearing this concern, and at least alluding to it at E3, everything that was actually shown was entirely Kinect and Shooter Gameplay driven.

Can we pretty please go back to the time when storyline and character development were what Bioware spent 95% of their time on?

Would you have prefered them to show the results of all of your desicions right then and there, nearly a whole year before the game comes out? The big areas of improvement for ME3 are, apparantly, within the gameplay so they are showing that. Besides, does anyone doubt that the story and charcater development are quality after the first two games? The more of these videos they show that spoil as little of the storyline as possible, the better as far as I am concerned.

After ME2, I'm very much in doubt over the story and character development.  I'd like to go back to the good old days when ME was actually an rpg, lol.

It never was.

Quote for for muthalovin' truth.

In ME1 the weapon skills weren't implemented well. As much as I would like attribute distribution and skills system, I'd say scrap the weapon skill tree in favor of more detailed power/class system.
As for the story, I say take it or leave it. People like to whine for the sake of whining. If you don't like it, than in the words of Sigmund Freud, I say "Too bad!"

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 07 juin 2011 - 03:06 .

[diskoh]

Orkboy wrote...

Looks good. ( Well, with the exception of that bloody cheesy Shepherd behind the logo "flicking" out his ridiculous looking holoblade. )

Gotta agree about the music though. Please, please let it be trailer music only and not indicative of the actual soundtrack.

Yeah cause Clint Mansell is known for guitar rock

Some people just need something to whine about.

[diskoh]

Why is it that all over the internet people are so excited they're peeing their pants, but here on Bioware's own forum there are only whiners and Mass Effect haters?

[Therefore_I_Am]

diskoh wrote...

Why is it that all over the internet people are so excited they're peeing their pants, but here on Bioware's own forum there are only whiners and Mass Effect haters?

It seems that alot of the BSN dwellers are in the "rose-colored glasses-wearing skeptic" category. Their favorite delicacy are whine & cheese.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 07 juin 2011 - 03:28 .

[Guitar Odyssey]

diskoh wrote...

Why is it that all over the internet people are so excited they're peeing their pants, but here on Bioware's own forum there are only whiners and Mass Effect haters?

That is the irony in all of this. I mean it's becoming laughable.

[JaJ-blade79]

I love what i saw today on spike and on G4
the new blade kill ability is really awesome!!! looking forward to taking enemies out like Psylocke^^

[deathlord413]

Terror_K wrote...

Well, the thing is, it's only really indie game makers you can go to now for originality. It used to be that even the gaming bigwigs would offer a good degree of originality in their output and we'd have a wide range of varied games and genres, and that even within the genres themselves there'd be a good degree of originality. But now everybody is just making these same action-hybrid affairs. When it comes down to it there really isn't that much difference between the Assassin Creed titles and Infamous, Prototype, Uncharted, Batman AA, Just Cause, etc. and on top of that now Tomb Raider is getting rebooted into a gritty Uncharted clone and the new Hitman was announced along with the term "more accessible" immediately tacked on and developers saying they want to make it appeal more to the common gamer. I'm quite frankly sick of seeing the terms "more accessible" and "streamlined" because they're just developer buzzwords that really mean "dumbed down" in the end.

You brought up some very interesting points for your argument. Batman AA, AC, Infamous, Uncharted, Tomb Raider. I honestly felt that these were in fact some of the few original IPs to pop up in the past few years. Yes with the numerous AC sequels there hasn't been much new in terms of gameplay. Infamous also uses a similar mechanic to traverse the map. Both of these games stole the mechanic from... Spider-Man. The thing that I could care less about is what I said before, gameplay. I don't mind playing a Spider-Man 2 nockoff when I play AC because it doesn't feel like Spider-Man 2.Games are about escapism and this is acomplished through the story. With DA2 yea I felt the game was lacking, but not because of the gameplay. The story is so lackluster and in some cases predictable.

I must say that Batman AA felt great to me. There was almost nothing wrong with it. Batman was a detective, like he should be, Mark Hamil was the Joker. The only gripe I had with that game was the final fight, which destroyed my sense of being Batman.

I also don't like the term "dumbed-down" that implies that anyone who doesn't like complex menus is an idiot and couldn't play a game to save his life.

[Koju737]

I dont post here often, but I'm a long time reader and a long time fan of Bioware. Mass effect 1 and 2 are favorite games of all time, and I have never felt so enthusiastic about anything else. Whether or not you liked the more action oriented pace or classic RPG mechanics, I think one thing we can agree on is that neither of them were rushed games.
With that said I would like everyone to go back and take a look at each games respective E3 demos and tell me how close they were to the final product

Mass effect 1:
Mass effect 2:

Theres plenty of other videos but you get the point. This is what they have so far and Id say it looks pretty damn good considering they still have 7-8 months or so left for development. Rest assured this game will likely be much different by the time march 2012 comes around, and much more polished. Relax folks... all will be good in the end.

P.S. they could've done better with that shoddy gameplay trailer though... quite lackluster. ME2's was way better.

[Fishy]

deathlord413 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

You're sort of right, but in the wrong way. The gaming industry isn't really evolving because gamers aren't. Gaming has become more mainstream and thus the games the mainstream gamer wants aren't terribly complex. Basically the majority all want these simple action games with a few light RPG elements and a bit of a story driving them, and because of that that's what every game developer is making these days. When you look at most of the games coming out, especially the AAA titles, there really isn't a lot of difference between them at all: they're all these story-driven action titles with a few mild RPG and/or customisation options for flavour. Gaming is becoming generic because --with a few rare exceptions-- almost every studio is trying to pander to the same big audience rather than just making their own games that have originality or freshness to them.

There's a reason one of the best games ever is the original Deus Ex, a game that is over 10 years old now and hasn't been topped: because nothing has come along and really tried to be equal or more than that and gaming pretty much peaked around that time. Gaming is only innovating on a technical and technology scale, but not on an overall gameplay scale. Gameplay is games is getting simpler and simpler as time goes on, and every time there is a small leap here or there, it seems to be simplified and watered down the next time.

Baldur's Gate and NWN are still great IPs and the reason they "don't hold up" today isn't so much because they "don't hold up" and are out of date, but because they are not mainstream gaming's currently flavour. They aren't what the vast majority of gamers want these days, because they see them as needlessly complex and too slow. They are too nerdy, aren't action-packed enough and require too much fiddling that gets in the way of the core gameplay. It's not that they don't have a place, it's that gaming studios and developers these days don't want to give them one. They're too much of a risk when they can just throw out another generic action title like everybody else and make some easy money, that will increase if said action title becomes a particular hit. Game companies are no longer making games to innovate, to be works of art or naturally be what they should: their engineering them as licences to print money and nothing else. And it's a shame BioWare has now fallen into the same trap.

This is actually what I meant by my comment. The mainstream will always control an industry and therfore people like us who are in a minority will normally be left behind. What I meant by gamers not evolving is that there aren't as many indie devolopers as there used to be. Most of these big games were started in people garages by geeks who were seen as outcasts. Now that the outcasts have shown that they can make millions everybody wants to make games wich makes getting into the companies difficult and the little indie developers just can't compete because they don't have the resources that these big guys do.

Could not have said it better.Seriously i facepalmed during the whole ME3 kinect show.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Too many rose-colored tinted glasses in this thread. Such is the life of the hardcore rpg player.

Just stop the whimpering and sobbing, ok?

[Tasker]

diskoh wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

Looks good. ( Well, with the exception of that bloody cheesy Shepherd behind the logo "flicking" out his ridiculous looking holoblade. )

Gotta agree about the music though. Please, please let it be trailer music only and not indicative of the actual soundtrack.

Yeah cause Clint Mansell is known for guitar rock

Some people just need something to whine about.

And Clint Mansell's known for his 80s synth?  No I didn't think so.

[Esbatty]

The gameplay trailer... I need to mend the front of my pants. I'm like diamond in an icestorm.

[fchopin]

Nice cinematics but when do we see some ME3 features and rpg elements?

You should tell if it’s just shooter cinematics in the scenes so we don’t waist our time checking it out.

[TobyHasEyes]

Just looking forward to some biotics in action. The lack of story spoilers is a good thing in my book, a necessary evil to keep some things a mystery or a suprise. However some vids on different classes, and on armour/weapon customization would be cool
Of course, not everything has to be at e3

[R3MUS]

Will we get something more on ME3 today?