46 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

mokponobi wrote...

If anything, the buff's they made to fire spells was over compensation for the nerfs to CCC's and BM. Drop a firestorm on any group, better yet drop 2 or 3 (merril and anders), watch everyone die including assassins and lieutenants, you can keep them inside your firestorm with force mage spells btw.

Yeah, in terms of crowd control, firestorm is a killer now. It's the DA:O fireball bonanza all over again. The only thing that makes it less dangerous (IMO) is the fact that the wave mechanic makes it hard to 1-hit wipe the encounter.

[John Epler]

You know, you can engage in debate and discussion without insults and vitriol. It seems to be a challenging concept to some of you, but it's possible to disagree with someone without resorting to the schoolyard crap.

Keep it civil.

[SicoWolf-]

I started a playthrough on Nightmare with a mage after the patch, it's been going swimmingly.

You can very easily get near the resistance cap on warriors, so friendly fire isn't really an issue unless you're running with Isabella. Using Isabella is even worse with a two-handed warrior; a two-handed warrior will decimate her without fail every encounter.

I personally think the friendly fire mechanic of Nightmare needs some serious tuning if not outright removed. It adds more tedium than challenge, and makes certain compositions fruitless (as described above).

Modifié par SicoWolf-, 06 juin 2011 - 07:04 .

[In Exile]

SicoWolf- wrote...
You can very easily get near the resistance cap on warriors, so friendly fire isn't really an issue unless you're running with Isabella. Using Isabella is even worse with a two-handed warrior; a two-handed warrior will decimate her without fail every encounter.

Isabella gives you solid DPS. The trick is to just have her leap out of the AOE cone.

I personally think the friendly fire mechanic of Nightmare needs some serious tuning if not outright removed. It adds more tedium than challenge, and makes certain compositions fruitless (as described above).

They removed warrior melee FF. Ability FF is still in, but you can just move & dodge. It reduces ability spam, so I think the balance is fine. I'd say lower difficulties should have FF but with much greater % reductions.

[Dormiglione]

In my opinion the strongest class in DA2 is the rogue. Its the most versatile class.

The DA2 mage class is not as strong as it is in DAO. But you can build a very powerful mage. A combination of elemental, primal and the specialization as force mage build a tremendous powerful mage with many different attack spells.

[SicoWolf-]

In Exile wrote...

Isabella gives you solid DPS. The trick is to just have her leap out of the AOE cone.

They removed warrior melee FF. Ability FF is still in, but you can just move & dodge. It reduces ability spam, so I think the balance is fine. I'd say lower difficulties should have FF but with much greater % reductions.

Having to move her out of the way every time a warrior's short cooldown attacks are up, to me, is tedieous rather than 'tactical'. The Friendly Fire mechanic seems especially out of place with how quick combat is in this game compared to Origins. I want the added difficulty without the tedium.

Modifié par SicoWolf-, 06 juin 2011 - 07:43 .

[Theagg]

In Exile wrote...

zazally wrote..

FF? Thank you also what is the best mage build? Are you saying they are still strong post patch 1.03?

Yes. Here's a post 1.03 build+

Primal Mage + Elemental Mage + Force Mage/Entropy(for PC/Merril). Anders is a tricker build, best is to just go for creation+other buffs (IMO).

You can CC off anything you like with the Primal + Elemental + Force Mage combo. Stagger (via shield bash) with an S&S warrior (basically the same as CC with 2H Vanguard)

After that it's up to you.

Like DA:O, with the right build, every class is a killer.

Just to point out the obvious but with 1.03 multiple Staggers off a shield bash are now near non existant. You are gaurenteed to stagger one (the primary target), you might get another close by, odds are you won't. Any more than two staggers is now rare.

Thus rendering upgraded Chain Lightning and Fist a bit pointless now really. Invest the talent points elsewhere for better bang for your buck.

[In Exile]

Theagg wrote...
Just to point out the obvious but with 1.03 multiple Staggers off a shield bash are now near non existant. You are gaurenteed to stagger one (the primary target), you might get another close by, odds are you won't. Any more than two staggers is now rare.

Chances are 40% that you will. And 16% that you'll get two. Chain Lightning jumps 4 times, so that makes it a max of 5 targets you can get. Getting 2-3 consistently is solid AoE, and like I said repeatedly, the combat is so much easier that this is close to what you had before.

Thus rendering upgraded Chain Lightning and Fist a bit pointless now really. Invest the talent points elsewhere for better bang for your buck.

You still get good bang for your buck. It just isn't counter-broken to account for the original broken-ness of combat.

SicoWolf- wrote...
Having to move her out of the way every
time a warrior's short cooldown attacks are up, to me, is tedieous rather
than 'tactical'. The Friendly Fire mechanic seems especially out of
place with how quick combat is in this game compared to Origins. I want
the added difficulty without the tedium.

Added difficulty always introduces tedium. Even if you make AI better and that ups difficultly (say, having to react faster to your position like the phases in the Rock Wraith battle) that's tedium of a different sort to another player.

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

The only mages that got nerfed hard are
the Healer builds. Go back and read the patch notes, they made 2 main
healing spells less effective... well THE two effective ones are now not
effective at all due to the combat wave system, and obscenely long
cooldown timers coupled with increased mana costs.

Healing had to drop, though, to account for the effective removal of knockback. You can't really nerf healers in DA2 anyway - they sucked from the start.

All that you had was the insanely broken SM/BM mode, which was supposed to not work toghether (because SM prevented combat magic) but was coded poorly.

Other than

that no, they weren't nerfed nearly as bad as Stagger (warrior) and
Backstab (rogues).

They nerfed enemies, though, and since that addressed part of the broken combat, you had to counter-nerf some of the broken party abilities.

Modifié par In Exile, 06 juin 2011 - 08:29 .

[SicoWolf-]

Added difficulty always introduces tedium. Even if you make AI better
and that ups difficultly (say, having to react faster to your position
like the phases in the Rock Wraith battle) that's tedium of a different
sort to another player.

There's a big difference between something feels fun and something that feels tedious. Tedium is the removal of fun. A better designed combat system would not feel tedious.

[fightright2]

JohnEpler wrote...

You know, you can engage in debate and discussion without insults and vitriol. It seems to be a challenging concept to some of you, but it's possible to disagree with someone without resorting to the schoolyard crap.

Keep it civil.

*Enlarges, prints, and frames*

[Captain_Obvious]

JohnEpler wrote...

You know, you can engage in debate and discussion without insults and vitriol. It seems to be a challenging concept to some of you, but it's possible to disagree with someone without resorting to the schoolyard crap.

Keep it civil.

Uh, this is really off topic, but I LOVE your signature now. 

/OT

[Valus]

SicoWolf- wrote...

I started a playthrough on Nightmare with a mage after the patch, it's been going swimmingly.

You can very easily get near the resistance cap on warriors, so friendly fire isn't really an issue unless you're running with Isabella. Using Isabella is even worse with a two-handed warrior; a two-handed warrior will decimate her without fail every encounter.

I personally think the friendly fire mechanic of Nightmare needs some serious tuning if not outright removed. It adds more tedium than challenge, and makes certain compositions fruitless (as described above).

Was just having the exact same issue (mostly). I like how the game effectively pigeon holes me into using or playing certain people if I raise the difficulty high enough. I just stopped playing out of frustration watching my mage get knocked from one end of the room to another by a rogue while vainly attempting to go through the final animation of his auto attack. Can't cancel out, can't move, just get to watch him locked down by Biowares insistence that I watch the awesomness of the combat animations at the expense of actual gameplay.

[Crow_22]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yea..... mages are still useful. So...... yea.

Now people really are hating on DA2 just to hate. I'm outta here.

Agreed, my friend. It's dumb when people complain about realistic things like friendly fire.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Mages? We should talk about less controversial things like politics or religion.

100% elemental resistance on Nightmare? If true that kind of sucks.

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Could you quit the pissing match and the let's whip it out to see whose is bigger and answer the OP's questions? Any one of you? What is the best mage build?

But the mage with the bigger staff wins I believe.

Jack, we all know you'd win, your rapier is longer than anyone elses...what? Why is everyone looking at me that way? :huh:He's a pirate you dirty birds!

Seriously OP, I loved my mage in DA2. LOVED! I maxed out all my fire and ice, crushing prison, then I went for chain lightening and tempest. I loved AoEing the hell out of enemies. I think the last thing I got was Hand of the Maker. 

Now I never did the heals, and I never took Anders. I played on easy and normal. Never hard or NIghtmare (too many boring waves added, not my thing).  So that's what I did.

[erynnar]

JohnEpler wrote...

You know, you can engage in debate and discussion without insults and vitriol. It seems to be a challenging concept to some of you, but it's possible to disagree with someone without resorting to the schoolyard crap.

Keep it civil.

Good Gods man! That's just madness!!! We can't  have civility! This is the internets, ser! We don't do that kind of thing here. Someone, get a rope! And no I am not seriously talking about harm to a mod or anyone else (just in case).<_<

[Melca36]

zazally wrote...

 Oh well back to my warrior might try tank on him since I don't like that Aveline girl

I'm still having fun with my mage. I think warriors got shafted.

[erynnar]

fightright2 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Could you quit the pissing match and the let's whip it out to see whose is bigger and answer the OP's questions? Any one of you? What is the best mage build?

But the mage with the bigger staff wins I believe.

Jack, you win with that post!

*Thanks eryn for the setup on that.* That was funny!

You are most welcome! I'll be here all week, please tip your waitress..I meant pay her, not tip her over! Geeze people!

@Shanistands  Oh, force? You kinky minx!

[Gallimatia]

The difference between warrior Hawke and Aveline or Fenris was increased when Vanguard was nerfed and Berserker buffed. I feel my mages suffer for it because they are usually dragging one of those two louts around. Aveline can't wreak the same havoc with the Vanguard tree anymore. Fenris needs better armor. Rogues suffer in a similar manner but they are not in a position to complain.

[Wye]

I don't like controlling mages, because I am a habitual button masher.