411 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

I just want him and Cerberus out of the way so I can focus on things that actually matters without having to deal with their shenanigans.

[Mister Mida]

HTTP 404 wrote...
I have a hard time believing that Bioware decided on a whim to make Cerberus the enemy in Me3.  This was the whole idea since Me1 and nothing has changed in Me2 for it not to happen in Me3.  Cerberus being the enemy is not a retcon, not inconsistency in lore, and not against logic.  This has been a delibieate plan since the start by bioware. 

Cerberus was already retconned from a rogue Alliance spec ops department to an ever independent extremist organization. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that Bioware made Cerberus the enemy in ME3 again by making it up as they go along. Walters probably has another idea of Cerberus than Karpyshyn had.

[Phaedon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I just want him and Cerberus out of the way so I can focus on things that actually matters without having to deal with their shenanigans.

Cerberus Trooper:"Oh, hey look, there's Shepard! Hi, Shep-"

Cerberus Nemesis:"You idiot! Shoot him! Shoot him!"

CT:"Oh, right! Now I just need a cool punchline."

CN:"What."

CT:"ENEMIES ARE EVERYWHERE"

CN:"But it's just him and he's there, no, no, don't hold the Eviscerator that way-"

CT:"I WILL BE YOUR DOOM!"

*shoots*

CN:"My foot! Oh, my foot!"

CT:"Whoops, sorry, for that."

CN:"You moron, see, he left now."

CT:"But where could he have gone?"

CN: "...you are right behind us, aren't you?"

Shepard:

Modifié par Phaedon, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:04 .

[marshalleck]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Here is a question for you;

why NOT Cerberus?

If TIM isn't a great antagonist, then who is?

I agree

I have a hard time believing that Bioware decided on a whim to make Cerberus the enemy in Me3.  This was the whole idea since Me1 and nothing has changed in Me2 for it not to happen in Me3.  Cerberus being the enemy is not a retcon, not inconsistency in lore, and not against logic.  This has been a delibieate plan since the start by bioware. 

I think you're giving them way too much credit. They've said they knew where they were beginning and where they wanted to end up, but all the details in between need to be hashed out as they do each game. 

[Apollo Starflare]

I stubbornly refuse to believe that this is a simple case of "the Reapers indoctrinated Cerberus as a whole, TIM is evul and Cerberus are stoopid". Remember back when BioWare were keeping their lips shut about the details of Cerberus involvement in the first magazine articles? I think this is semi-misdirection.

Yeah indoctrination is probably involved, and it seems they are working for the Reapers regardless, however there is no reason for us to believe there isn't a whole lot else going on with this sudden shift in policy. In fact it's far more likely given BioWare's habit for unravelling mysteries and dramatic twists that the reason for Cerberus change will be a key point in that sub plot.

Cerberus were never going to become clear cut goodies fighting for what's right, despite their more sympathetic portrayal in ME2. What they did was come to represent the grey area in between the evil and corrupt powers at play and the loftier by the book Governments. They also sort of showed how someone who followed a more 'paragon' style moral code could slip slowly into using more 'renegade' decisions due to circumstance and challenge to their beliefs.

edit: just to expand on this bit a little seeing the replies above: I thought it was always evident that Cerberus had been built up possibly even from ME1 as a future antagonist. At some point the decision was probably made to give them an even bigger role in proceedings (ME2) but I doubt anyone thought about letting them just exist without impact or become one of the good guys post Suicide Mission. TIM in particular had villain written all over him for me. but an intelligently written villain and one that it was possible to somewhat understand and even sympathise with (at least from his perspective); the Reapers make a great 'ancient evil' villain but TIM could be much more in line with the currently popular 'grey' villain seen all over the place recently.

The point I am making (can't speak for others unhappy at the current state of affairs in this regard) is that there seem to be much more interesting ways of playing off that antagonism than currently appears. Something I am hoping proves to just be a case of us not knowing enough about what's going on. Indoctrination is a cheap way to go about it. /end edit.

Beneath all that there was of course the experiments, and dodgy military ops (etc.) however not only is the organisation split into cells with who knows how many cells working on more legal or otherwise legitimate (at the very least not unspeakably bad/stupid) projects; but stupid experiments and dodgy military ops (etc.) are a staple of all shady pseudo-Government sanctioned groups. Cerberus may be worse than the Salarian Special Tactics group by some accounts, but both perform less than savoury acts when required.

All this brings me to the point that I started to make initially: I can't believe all this nuance has been thrown away in favour of making them the supporting villain of the month. Their not being the real threat greatly diminishes any impact of their story being a warning about Mankind being too self centered or similar also.

Sure TIM is set to be an antagonist, whether he is indoctrinated, was always indoctrinated (doubt it) or otherwise. And sure Cerberus as we know it needs to be dismantled to a large degree. However for those that wish it I would like to see the option to 'save' the group, not just keeping it in tact but bringing to the fore those elements of it which can be used for good (or just necessary) means.

Wordy reply is wordy, but basically regardless of how I feel about Cerberus there seems like too much potential there for it to be thrown away as a supporting villain. Not to mention the BioWare writers tend to be more subtle and clever than that! Lastly I just don't see indoctrination working the way it seems to be portrayed here, unless it has undergone some changes/expansion it always seemed to turn it's thralls into more mindless drones than capable soldiers.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:18 .

[Foolsfolly]

Yeah, and it's hard to look at Cerberus in ME1 and see the Cerberus we meet in ME2. They were side quest baddies who looked like any other human and who just did nasty stuff.

Their origin's also been rather neatly retconned.

I know they planned the big steps of the Reaper invasion with ME1. But there's just simply no way Cerberus as it is now is how they planned Cerberus to turn out.

[Daryst]

Phaedon wrote...

Daryst wrote...

To lazy to read the whole thread, but is it not possible that TIM is besides the possiblilty of being indoctrinated, also on the hunt because he knows too much about Cerberus? He has a wealth of information at his disposal via Miranda, Jacob and EDI. If I were him and such a person was loose, I would hunt him to the end of the universe to silent him.

Casey Hudson claims that he is a major antagonist.

I am not denying that he a major antagonist. I am just stating a possible or could be scenario/reason for TIM to kill shepard.

[Apollo Starflare]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Yeah, and it's hard to look at Cerberus in ME1 and see the Cerberus we meet in ME2. They were side quest baddies who looked like any other human and who just did nasty stuff.

Their origin's also been rather neatly retconned.

I know they planned the big steps of the Reaper invasion with ME1. But there's just simply no way Cerberus as it is now is how they planned Cerberus to turn out.

Not for me. The handy introduction of the cell based nature of the organisation, and the fact that TIM was so perfectly set up as a grand 'behind the scenes' boss/villain meant it all made sense to me. How they could appear quite different in ME2 because it was a completely different branch of the group.

No doubt they changed and revised elements of them as they moved forward, but there is no reason the Cerberus in ME1 can't jive with the Cerberus we see in ME2.

[The Elder King]

Phaedon wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Well, I agree about the organization. But the democratic nation? Sorry, I can't agree with you. Not while living in my nation. And is one of the G8 nations (though I don't know for how much).

I don't see how. Either all of the people must be immoral, or the government doesn't change at all throughout the years.

Well, they changed in the person that are in the govern, but the intention and the fact that they care only about their interest didn't change. The fact that one of the major political figures and our currently leader of the govern  should be in jail doesn't help (though I have to say that probably most of our politics should be in jail).

[HTTP 404]

Mister Mida wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...
I have a hard time believing that Bioware decided on a whim to make Cerberus the enemy in Me3.  This was the whole idea since Me1 and nothing has changed in Me2 for it not to happen in Me3.  Cerberus being the enemy is not a retcon, not inconsistency in lore, and not against logic.  This has been a delibieate plan since the start by bioware. 

Cerberus was already retconned from a rogue Alliance spec ops department to an ever independent extremist organization. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that Bioware made Cerberus the enemy in ME3 again by making it up as they go along. Walters probably has another idea of Cerberus than Karpyshyn had.

I don't think its so much a retcon from being rogue to independent.  similar terms in of itself..  Drew already made Cerberus a big deal with his novels....  For the most part, you could be right they probably made it up along the way but it was all aimed towards Cerberus being an enemy in Me3.

[Mister Mida]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...
I have a hard time believing that Bioware decided on a whim to make Cerberus the enemy in Me3.  This was the whole idea since Me1 and nothing has changed in Me2 for it not to happen in Me3.  Cerberus being the enemy is not a retcon, not inconsistency in lore, and not against logic.  This has been a delibieate plan since the start by bioware. 

Cerberus was already retconned from a rogue Alliance spec ops department to an ever independent extremist organization. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that Bioware made Cerberus the enemy in ME3 again by making it up as they go along. Walters probably has another idea of Cerberus than Karpyshyn had.

I don't think its so much a retcon from being rogue to independent.  similar terms in of itself..  Drew already made Cerberus a big deal with his novels....  For the most part, you could be right they probably made it up along the way but it was all aimed towards Cerberus being an enemy in Me3.

Kahoku in ME (1) says one thing, the codex in ME2 says another. Is Kahoku lying? I don't know, but I guess not. Until something or someone states otherwise, I'd call that a retcon. As for Cerberus always being made to be an enemy in ME3, well, I think Marshalleck already summed that one up.

[Seboist]

Mister Mida wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...
I have a hard time believing that Bioware decided on a whim to make Cerberus the enemy in Me3.  This was the whole idea since Me1 and nothing has changed in Me2 for it not to happen in Me3.  Cerberus being the enemy is not a retcon, not inconsistency in lore, and not against logic.  This has been a delibieate plan since the start by bioware. 

Cerberus was already retconned from a rogue Alliance spec ops department to an ever independent extremist organization. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that Bioware made Cerberus the enemy in ME3 again by making it up as they go along. Walters probably has another idea of Cerberus than Karpyshyn had.

I don't think its so much a retcon from being rogue to independent.  similar terms in of itself..  Drew already made Cerberus a big deal with his novels....  For the most part, you could be right they probably made it up along the way but it was all aimed towards Cerberus being an enemy in Me3.

Kahoku in ME (1) says one thing, the codex in ME2 says another. Is Kahoku lying? I don't know, but I guess not. Until something or someone states otherwise, I'd call that a retcon. As for Cerberus always being made to be an enemy in ME3, well, I think Marshalleck already summed that one up.

Yeah, there's no doubt that Cerberus origins were retconned.  There's no reference anywhere in ME2 that Cerberus was part of the Alliance and it's codex and the evolution comic make it seem like It was something TIM created on his own in his spare time.

[Foolsfolly]

Kahoku in ME (1) says one thing, the codex in ME2 says another. Is Kahoku lying? I don't know, but I guess not. Until something or someone states otherwise, I'd call that a retcon.

That's how I view it as well.

It's not like he said "some paramilitary organization" that's vague enough for them to fill in blanks afterward. He said they were an Alliance black-ops group that went rogue. The Codex and comics and books after don't mesh with that.

The only way to make the two make sense would be to invent some crap about how that single cell in Mass Effect 1 was a former Alliance Black-op that went rogue and TIM scooped them up.

[Nohvarr]

From the "10 things fans should know about Mass Effect"

Warning possible Spoilers

Cerberus Knows More about INDOCTRINATION Than You Do

Maybe you preserved the Reaper facility, but if you blew it sky high and thought that the Reaper's secrets were lost to the Illusive Man forever... Well, think again. Whether you chose the Renegade or Paragon option in the final mission of Mass Effect 2, the Illusive Man recovers information about the experiments the Reapers performed on the colonists and he has an epiphany that could rival Anakin's thought process when he tries to strangle Padme in Episode III: "I just spent trillions of credits bringing Shepard back to life and assembling a team to stop the Collectors from abducting more human colonists for Reaper experiments. Now that she has done the impossible, I think I will just continue those experiments." (Yeah, Illusive Man, no way you are indoctrinated. This all makes perfect, logical sense. I'm sorry for doubting you. I'll go back and make that Renegade choice now.) For the greater good of the human race, of course... Oh, and revenge.

In the novel, Mass Effect: Ascension, we are introduced to Cerberus operative Paul Grayson. The Illusive Man entrusts Grayson with one of his investments, a girl with enormous biotic potential, named Gillian. Eventually, though, he turns his back on the Illusive Man to keep his daughter and Kahlee Sanders safe.

The Illusive Man does not just get even with those who cross him. No, he is more of a "I am going to conduct experiments on you with alien technology, turn you into an abomination, take notes on it, and then kill you" kind of guy. While implanting Grayson with Reaper technology, the Illusive Man calmly explains that these "nanides" will eventually spread through Grayson's entire body, turning him into an "organic host" for the Reapers. He's like a Bond villain, except he actually carries out his evil plan while explaining it.

Through Grayson, we see the brutal process of indoctrination. In the beginning, Grayson still has control of his body while the Reapers "sleep." But even in the early stages of indoctrination, the Reapers have latched onto his thoughts, making him believe they are his own. Grayson contemplates ending his life, but after "losing a vessel once before" to suicide (Saren), they are able to manipulate him into thinking he has decided that would be cowardly. Grayson also physically changes, beginning to look more machine than man.

The Reapers eventually gain complete control of Grayson's body, using him to gather information about the Alliance school for biotic children. Cerberus acquired data on this final stage of indoctrination, as well, through a man called Kai Leng.


****

Cerberus is Directly Responsible for Most Human BIOTICS

Oh Cerberus, you really are the gift that just keeps on giving. As the "Protectors of Humanity," the Illusive Man saw that biotics must be a part of humanity's future if they are going to compete with the rest of the galaxy. But humans are not like Asari, they do not naturally have biotic potential. Well the Illusive Man isn't going to let something as small as genetics stand in his way. Cerberus arranged for three "industrial accidents," all seemingly random, to hit three human colonies. One of these "accidents" was a transport ship exploding over the Yandoa colony, which caused a massive cloud element zero to envelope the colony. While thousands were exposed to element zero, only a few children actually developed biotic powers because of it. The less fortunate majority contracted cancer, birth defects, or did not survive the birthing process. To Cerberus, these are the "necessary sacrifices to elevate the human race above its interstellar rivals."


****

Meet JACK HARPER, THE ILLUSIVE MAN

The Illusive Man is both illusive and elusive. His history in the games is virtually nil; all you'll know from playing is that his organization Cerberus has done some very bad things and some not-quite-as-bad things, and that this lone man with the glowing eyes leads it. Enter the books and novels, which not only reveal his real name, Jack Harper, but give us a significant insight into his past and his future.

The comics have done the most outright telling of Jack Harper's story. Once a mercenary hired to fight for the Alliance in the First Contact War, Harper and his crew made contact with something else: a Reaper artifact. The artifact hit both Harper and his friend/colleague Ben Hislop with blasts of energy, though Hislop got the worst of it, apparently dying. After this, the remaining two, Harper and Eva Core, are captured by Desolas Arterius and his brother, Saren (uh oh!).

As the first contact war ends, they are soon turned over to General Williams, grandfather of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 3 (if she survived ME, of course) companion Ashley Williams. The General decides something is fishy with Desolas and his strange hooded guard, and sends Jack and Eva in pursuit. They meet a changed Ben, a near-husk, and both he and Jack can hear the call of another artifact, this one on the Turian homeworld of Palaven. After Desolas tried to launch a plan to turn all the Turians into these "priests," Ben eventually found just enough of his humanity to push Desolas into the artifact, killing them both and making the artifact go dim. Jack Harper escaped with his life and became the Illusive Man, but that close contact with a Reaper artifact clearly affected him, leaving his eyes forever changed, usually an early sign of indoctrination.

In the novels, more of the Illusive Man's cunning and deviousness is revealed as well. We find out many of the other things from this countdown, like his engineering of the explosions to create human biotics, his wholesale abuse of children in hopes of figuring out how to make supersoldiers, and how every time humanity gets close to something, whether it's research into AI, artifacts, mind control; the Illusive Man is not far behind.

Could Jack Harper have been indoctrinated, all the way back at the First Contact War's end? Yes, and signs are pointing to that being the truth, at least a bit. He has terrorized humanity and alien races alike. He has discovered more about the Reapers through testing and theft of Reaper technology than anyone else. He very well could be the Reapers' ultimate test of how much to take from humanity before destroying all organic life.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 13 juillet 2011 - 01:07 .

[HiddenKING]

Indoctrination or the control chip Miranda mentioned, I don't care I just want to kill Cerberus goons and The Illusive Man

[Eshaye]

Nobody likes awesome bad guys anymore! I love them, love TIM to pieces. I don't think he's Saren 2.0 in fact Saren was just a hint of what was to come.

Indoctrination isn't just a cop out, it's what makes this game what it is, it is the Reaper's ultimate and most effective weapon and is going to play a major role in ME3. Would not be surprised one second if Shepard even has to fight off indoctrination too.

Reminds me of Oblivion and that fighter's guild quest where you end up killing a village of people under the influence of a drug, this is like that but on a bigger scale. I expect an epic TIM scene that explains everything from his side. Tragic heroes are okay, but I always preferred tragic villains.

[alperez]

Eshaye wrote...

Nobody likes awesome bad guys anymore! I love them, love TIM to pieces. I don't think he's Saren 2.0 in fact Saren was just a hint of what was to come.

Indoctrination isn't just a cop out, it's what makes this game what it is, it is the Reaper's ultimate and most effective weapon and is going to play a major role in ME3. Would not be surprised one second if Shepard even has to fight off indoctrination too.

Reminds me of Oblivion and that fighter's guild quest where you end up killing a village of people under the influence of a drug, this is like that but on a bigger scale. I expect an epic TIM scene that explains everything from his side. Tragic heroes are okay, but I always preferred tragic villains.

I love awesome bad guys, the problem is that people just don't write them that way that much anymore, usually they start out that way only in the end to turn into the one dimensional cardboard villain we usually get. Maybe they thing we don't have the attention span or that we might not understand the complexities, but give me a complex villian with a complex motivation over one that just ticks all the villan boxes anyday.

I agree about the indoctrination from the start its been one of the reapers most interesting weapons, the problem has been though at times its been used to explain every single motivation or overused to such an extent that its become more blase than it should have been.

As for Shepard fighting indoctrination i think that would be interesting and they may go somewhat down that route, but they may also go the route of Shepard can't be indoctrinated because Shepard has super unindoctrinable genes or something.

I really hope we get to see TIM's side and that his explanation fits into the storyline properly and makes sense, they did this to an extent with Saren and i hope throught the course of me3 we find out a lot of the reasoning behind what TIm's been doing and then in our encounter with TIM he fills in the blanks.

[Bad King]

Mister Mida wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...
I have a hard time believing that Bioware decided on a whim to make Cerberus the enemy in Me3.  This was the whole idea since Me1 and nothing has changed in Me2 for it not to happen in Me3.  Cerberus being the enemy is not a retcon, not inconsistency in lore, and not against logic.  This has been a delibieate plan since the start by bioware. 

Cerberus was already retconned from a rogue Alliance spec ops department to an ever independent extremist organization. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that Bioware made Cerberus the enemy in ME3 again by making it up as they go along. Walters probably has another idea of Cerberus than Karpyshyn had.

I don't think its so much a retcon from being rogue to independent.  similar terms in of itself..  Drew already made Cerberus a big deal with his novels....  For the most part, you could be right they probably made it up along the way but it was all aimed towards Cerberus being an enemy in Me3.

Kahoku in ME (1) says one thing, the codex in ME2 says another. Is Kahoku lying? I don't know, but I guess not. Until something or someone states otherwise, I'd call that a retcon.

I doubt Kahoku got it wrong- his info was mostly bought from the Shadow Broker who has a reputation for providing top quality info. Besides that there are other clues in the game- Dr. Wayne, one of the scientists responsible for Akuze was an Alliance scientist (confirmed by Hackett)- of course Akuze occurred before the split, so it was an Alliance project. As for the codex getting it wrong, that makes perfect sense- the primary codex tends to reveal information only known to the public (there's a lot of false info regarding the protheans and reapers etc). The Alliance have been working hard to cover up their ties to Cerberus- if the public discovered that Cerberus was once part of the Alliance, it would be a scandal, and there would certainly be a backlash against the Alliance. So better to claim that Cerberus has always been an independent terrorist organisation than a secret department of the Alliance that went rogue.

Now for a bit of speculation!

My theory is that there is no retcon and that after TIM founded Cerberus, he merged the small organisation with the Alliance. Under the Alliance the group grew, and by ME1, TIM decided to split with the Alliance in order to give Cerberus more independence- this would allow them to be regulated less by the Alliance which in turn would allow them to make better preperations against the Collectors/Reapers due to increased freedom. With their newly gained freedom hey started the super soldier projects to create shocktroopers (Thorian Creepers and Rachni) to aid humanity in the coming conflict with the reapers. The chief operative in charge of this was Armistan Banes who faked his own death to escape the Alliance and blackmailed Dr. Chloe Michel for supplies for the project. When Kahoku investigated, Banes made sure that a fake body was left. However Banes was afraid that the conspiracy would still be revealed by Kahoku's marines and so lured them into a Thresher maw nest, and later killed Kahoku in order to cover up the projects.

[ODST 5723]

Phaedon wrote...
First off, Sirta Foundation is not a very formidable opponent. Why would the Reapers indoctrinate them.

They don't have to be formiddable opponent to make them a perfect agent.  They just need to have sufficient access to further a goal while remaining undetected. 

The less attention they draw, the better.  What you're looking at here is a means of using subtle inluence to create signfiicant influence.  if you go after the big dogs directly, you run a greater risk of exposure.  Sometimes the indirect route is the more efficient and more effective.

[AesirMan]

alperez wrote...

AesirMan wrote...

Or could it be that TIM is not indoctrinated but a good portion of Cerberus is and they are trying to keep control?

Also I think its bad storytelling if one is given the choice in 2 to be a Cerberus Loyalist, why one still can't continue to be one in 3.... One can stay true to the Council or the Alliance from moving 1-2 why can't one be a Cerberus Loyalist moving from 2 to 3...?

I do agree with you on the first point, that it could in fact be Cerberus and not TIM that's completely indoctrinated even though i think the evidence shows it as being TIM.

As for bad storytelling, well me2 has that covered, despite how some people feel about Cerberus they have no option other than to work with them, they are cut off from the alliance and council despite everything that happened in me1 and no matter what they wish they have to work with cerberus without major questioning. We had to live with it despite not liking it, so if a cerberus loyalist has to live with the same scenario in me3 or has to fight and destroy them no matter what then isn; turnaround fairplay?

Cerberus were never supposed to be a side you took, the fact you did is your own perogative but they were only ever supposed to be a stopgap until the main event and you were never supposed to like or agree with their agenda. Did the writers not show this well enough, perhaps, or did they simply underestimate people seeing what was always their intention?

Maybe in me2 we're supposed to reluctantly work with cerberus while knowing we will get the chance to make them pay for everything they did in me1 when me3 comes along? maybe that was their intention and they just underestimated that some people would enjoy and wish to continue working with this evil organisation and that instead of showing Cerberus to be evil inc. they were creating a situation where some people would agree with thier philosophy and their actions.

Or maybe just maybe they have something else planned and we just won't know until we play me3.

1) Ok.
2) Turnabout is not the word I would describe it here.  One always had the choice to do things that put Cerberus back MANY years or would cripple their operations.    They were forced to work for Cerberus because the Alliance can't and the Council won't deal with the reapers and collectors.  One is able to return to Spectre status and even do things for C-sec.  One doesn't need questioning to throw a wrench.

3) Cerberus to me IS the grey choice.  They are willing to do the vile things that advance humanity.  Cerberus gave us Biotics...  It costed thousands of people but humanity can now compete on the biotic level.  Damn right I agree with Cerberus as they do the things necessary.  I am going to love it if one decided to try and brainwash the geth and do the paragon ending to Overlord to realize that if I would of just let one mans happiness go we would have saved countless of thousands if not millions of lives.   I am WILLING to sacrifice my scruples and ethics for the greater good.  I did so in the Army and will continue to do so if a choice is made before me as a civillian.  

4) Perhaps it was their intentions but that also has to do with poor writing then.

5) I certainly hope so that they have things planned out.  Because being put into Cerberus bad must kill is bad writing for those that came to logical steps in their shepard.


See my ME 1 Shepard.  Colonist.  War Hero.   Now Batarians raided his home and killed his family and friends... he joined the alliance and the skyllian blitz happened.  He was in the position to defend against more batarian slavers and well over time in the Alliance and having a tough childhood.  Shepard hates alien cultures.  ((not specific ones but the cultures))  So from a pro-human spectre who realized that the galactic genocide might take place he focused everything on Sov.  Instead of dealing with the Geth threats around the DA he didn't want to risk the Universe. So Now ME2 comes around and he reads files on Cerberus on how they rebuilt him, GOT JOKER to join Cerberus.  ((Joker: Yeah they are all not all that bad.))  He finds out things about Cerberus about how they actually are doing something about the Reapers and actually doing things to advance humanity.  Being a Pro-Human Shep They have my loyalty. A bit through Simple Xenophobia and principle.   Sorry but I am human if some culture killed all my family and friends causing me to grow up alone... I can see revenge easily.  Honestly I think my shep didn't think twice about those Batarians in Arrival.   The thing is they should have writing and stories that can APPLY to ALL the Shepards.  Not just 1-2.  If it applies to 1-2 then it makes choices seem less important.

[Phaedon]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
First off, Sirta Foundation is not a very formidable opponent. Why would the Reapers indoctrinate them.

They don't have to be formiddable opponent to make them a perfect agent.  They just need to have sufficient access to further a goal while remaining undetected. 

The less attention they draw, the better.  What you're looking at here is a means of using subtle inluence to create signfiicant influence.  if you go after the big dogs directly, you run a greater risk of exposure.  Sometimes the indirect route is the more efficient and more effective.

Subtle influence? Is that what you call jumping from shuttles with custom paintjob using jetpacks, extravagant armour and shooting up the place?

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...
Subtle influence? Is that what you call jumping from shuttles with custom paintjob using jetpacks, extravagant armour and shooting up the place?

Don't forget the fifteen tall mech they drop from a high altitude that also starts to shoot up the place.