411 réponses à ce sujet

[AesirMan]

because 1 the stg is more public, they come from a council race cerberus when around came from a non council race. the stg does look ,out for salarian interests as spectres were later modeled after them for council interests.

2 the stg has done crimes against the krogans. killing millions a year is a crime.

3) It allows the Alliance to do the vile experiments necessary to advance humanity so quickly and still look like they are being nice.

And why do they seem to like the STG is because its from an accepted council race.

[AesirMan]

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

you can still be ruthless and walk the paragon'ish path.

Cerberus=na/zi
alliance=over bearring poilitcal leaders and marines
council=wiseman past there decades

id rather team up with the alliance and coucil anyday allday before joinging cerberus..BOOM Im done "debating"

The one finds out that Cerberus and the Alliance are still inked... its funny how the Cerberus research seems to fall into Alliance hands all the time....  and Cerberus to you might equal **** but to me they appear like the special ops of the Alliance.

[Someone With Mass]

That's just because Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance's ranks.

[Praetor Knight]

AesirMan wrote...

The one finds out that Cerberus and the Alliance are still inked... its funny how the Cerberus research seems to fall into Alliance hands all the time....  and Cerberus to you might equal **** but to me they appear like the special ops of the Alliance.

Human Biotics are Cerberus handywork and too many avoid the Alliance and join criminal or merc groups.

So what else falls into Alliance hands? I don't remember anything off-hand right now.

[AesirMan]

It was explained in ME1 that at one time they were one and the same just Cerberus went "rogue" and while I see that as more of a cop-out answer one that is just politically convenient for those that learn of Cerberus. So its hardly infiltrated if they were at one time "publically-secretively" one and the same.

[AesirMan]

What other research, I have a feeling that the Normandy SR-1 wasn't just Turian but it was also Cerberus as Cerberus also pushed the SR-2. Who knows I have a feeling L5 biotic implants were mainly due to Jacks Research and replicating it and then sending the research to the public biotic academy when they piggybacked. it seems like they can piggyback too easily I have a feeling that they are still linked and never quite went rogue as Hackett could get on the "terrorist vessel" and the "terrorist XO officer Miranda" let him on.

[Praetor Knight]

AesirMan wrote...

It was explained in ME1 that at one time they were one and the same just Cerberus went "rogue" and while I see that as more of a cop-out answer one that is just politically convenient for those that learn of Cerberus. So its hardly infiltrated if they were at one time "publically-secretively" one and the same.

Oh, that part.

What I imagine is that Cerberus co-opted some or most of the Alliance's Black Ops programs and intergrated them into it's own organization.

So elements did go rogue from the Alliance, but I think Cerberus was already operating parallel to them before that happening when Kahoku stumbled upon what we see in ME1.

AesirMan wrote...

What other research, I have a feeling that the Normandy SR-1 wasn't just Turian but it was also Cerberus as Cerberus also pushed the SR-2. Who knows I have a feeling L5 biotic implants were mainly due to Jacks Research and replicating it and then sending the research to the public biotic academy when they piggybacked. it seems like they can piggyback too easily I have a feeling that they are still linked and never quite went rogue as Hackett could get on the "terrorist vessel" and the "terrorist XO officer Miranda" let him on.

With the Tantalus Drive Core, I dunno.

But with biotic amps I can definitely see something with Cerberus adapting Asari designs for Human use.

Well Miranda is the XO to Shepard, and I think it shows more, the amount of faith Hackett has in Shepard over anything else.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 14 juillet 2011 - 06:15 .

[Someone With Mass]

Their goal to put humanity on top of everything is just silly. Why not just start their own little empire instead?

There's really no point in being a part of the galactic community if we're just going to push them down until they're lower than dirt.

[AesirMan]

because well they are a part of the galactic community and they are their own empire they are the Alliance. But thats just my theory and thoughts on the matter. I said Earlier I support their actions as something necessary to keep humanity ahead and competitive but they need more Alliance oversight. Its really to me that entire Cerberus organization being against shep after shep is loyal to the organization makes little to no sense to me and thats it

And Praetor one can see it the other way around, that A) they were the black ops who went rogue or they only went rogue publically and secretively they are still Alliance (this explains Admiral Hackett on how most Cerberus seem to be above the law when it comes to the Alliance. It also kind of explains how the SF are when its with the Army. They get discharged and given a seperate and different Army contract.   Explains Hackett's paragon answer I am glad your time in Cerberus hasn't changed your sense of honor etc... or something like that. 

Because no one can really say How/Why an Alliance officer was let on the ship by a Terrorist XO? 

Modifié par AesirMan, 14 juillet 2011 - 06:20 .

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Their goal to put humanity on top of everything is just silly. Why not just start their own little empire instead?

There's really no point in being a part of the galactic community if we're just going to push them down until they're lower than dirt.

Who said anything about "pushing the other races down until their lower then dirt"?

All Cerberus wants is for humans to be on top.
No where is it stated that they want to "beat down" the other races.

If you want to hate on a racist oppressive organization you should be hating on the Council.

[Praetor Knight]

AesirMan wrote...

And Praetor one can see it the other way around, that A) they were the black ops who went rogue or they only went rogue publically and secretively they are still Alliance (this explains Admiral Hackett on how most Cerberus seem to be above the law when it comes to the Alliance. It also kind of explains how the SF are when its with the Army. They get discharged and given a seperate and different Army contract.   Explains Hackett's paragon answer I am glad your time in Cerberus hasn't changed your sense of honor etc... or something like that. 

Because no one can really say How/Why an Alliance officer was let on the ship by a Terrorist XO? 

Well, check out the SB Dossier on Cerberus, and the Codex entries here. The details here is how I figured they were operating parallel, then Cerberus co-opted Alliance assets. Since Cerberus had infiltrated the Alliance, they have had the advantage and why Kahoku was a problem for Cerberus.

But why can't Miranda be reasonable every now and then?

[Bnol]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Their goal to put humanity on top of everything is just silly. Why not just start their own little empire instead?

There's really no point in being a part of the galactic community if we're just going to push them down until they're lower than dirt.

Except humans are the new kid.  The asari, salarians, and turians have much closer ties from having known one another longer and from having gone through the Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellion together.  The Council has shown no interest in human affairs, thus it is reasonable to believe that humans must increase their strength to defend themselves as well as to show that they are useful to the galactic community.  Cerberus and the Alliance always reminds me of the South Park episode "The War Song War" where the founders formed a country founded on saying one thing and doing another, being able to go to war and protest it at the same time.  So Cerberus can do all the evil things, and the Alliance can denounce them as terrorists that aren't part of it, but then still reap all of the technological advancements.

[Someone With Mass]

Bnol wrote...

Except humans are the new kid.  The asari, salarians, and turians have much closer ties from having known one another longer and from having gone through the Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellion together.  The Council has shown no interest in human affairs, thus it is reasonable to believe that humans must increase their strength to defend themselves as well as to show that they are useful to the galactic community.  Cerberus and the Alliance always reminds me of the South Park episode "The War Song War" where the founders formed a country founded on saying one thing and doing another, being able to go to war and protest it at the same time.  So Cerberus can do all the evil things, and the Alliance can denounce them as terrorists that aren't part of it, but then still reap all of the technological advancements.

Or instead of provoking aggression and break almost every Citadel law there is, they could offer services and suggest collaborations between races. Like how the turians and the volus did.

Hell, the Normandy is a great example of this.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 14 juillet 2011 - 06:41 .

[Phaedon]

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...
DUH..cerberus was a black ops branch for the alliance

Cerberus never was a black ops branch of the Alliance. You mean that it started that way, by a black ops element going rogue. That's either referring to Core, Hislop and Harper, who were "specialists" but not soldiers, or mercenaries, or if you notice the last frame of the fourth issue of Evolution, the people who hear TIM's manifesto in the Arcturus Station.

TIM had stopped working for the Alliance for months/weeks before he initiated Cerberus.
And he probably felt cheated by the Alliance due to what happenned to General Williams.

[Zulu_DFA]

Someone With Mass wrote...

That's just because Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance's ranks.

That's just because General Williams was TIM's drinking buddy back in the day.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Phaedon wrote...

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...
DUH..cerberus was a black ops branch for the alliance

Cerberus never was a black ops branch of the Alliance. You mean that it started that way, by a black ops element going rogue. That's either referring to Core, Hislop and Harper, who were "specialists" but not soldiers, or mercenaries, or if you notice the last frame of the fourth issue of Evolution, the people who hear TIM's manifesto in the Arcturus Station.

TIM had stopped working for the Alliance for months/weeks before he initiated Cerberus.
And he probably felt cheated by the Alliance due to what happenned to General Williams.

Cerberus remind me of Black Mesa (Half-Life)

I wonder if they have tons of high-speed ICBMs?

[ODST 5723]

Phaedon wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
First off, Sirta Foundation is not a very formidable opponent. Why would the Reapers indoctrinate them.

They don't have to be formiddable opponent to make them a perfect agent.  They just need to have sufficient access to further a goal while remaining undetected. 

The less attention they draw, the better.  What you're looking at here is a means of using subtle inluence to create signfiicant influence.  if you go after the big dogs directly, you run a greater risk of exposure.  Sometimes the indirect route is the more efficient and more effective.

Subtle influence? Is that what you call jumping from shuttles with custom paintjob using jetpacks, extravagant armour and shooting up the place?

We're obviously not on the same page.  You're talking about Cerberus, while I'm point to your Sirta Foundation example and saying that it's not that far-fetched and in many ways could have made sense.

The Reapers wouldn't necessarily need to go after one of the big dogs directly in order to achieve their goals.  They could use significantly more subtle means, the kind which evolve over centuries or decades so that they became so ingrained into society that the influence becomes undetectible, rather than focusing directly on the important factions and exposing the mission to risk.

Plus, the fact that they're viewed for their contributions to health and humanity for all of their defensive tech and medical breakthroughs gives them a perfect cover to do all sorts of biological research, and hide Reaper plans by giving the galaxy medi-gel, or disease-shattering vaccines.

Your point was, why indoctrinate a small group that's not a formiddable threat?  My point is, how do you define a formidable threat?  Subtle actions don't draw the kind of attention that Cerberus does and they lead to the threat you don't see coming.  Some of the more formidable threats are the ones you didn't anticipate.

[Dave of Canada]

GodWood wrote...

All Cerberus wants is for humans to be on top.
No where is it stated that they want to "beat down" the other races.

Because people seem to have trouble telling the difference for some weird reason.

[Someone With Mass]

It's nice to know that so many believes that no part of humanity would abuse their rule once humanity rises to the power above everyone else that Cerberus is trying to create.

[Phaedon]

ODST 5723 wrote...
We're obviously not on the same page.  You're talking about Cerberus, while I'm point to your Sirta Foundation example and saying that it's not that far-fetched and in many ways could have made sense.

The Reapers wouldn't necessarily need to go after one of the big dogs directly in order to achieve their goals.  They could use significantly more subtle means, the kind which evolve over centuries or decades so that they became so ingrained into society that the influence becomes undetectible, rather than focusing directly on the important factions and exposing the mission to risk.

They don't have to be formiddable opponent to make them a perfect agent.  They just need to have sufficient access to further a goal while remaining undetected. 

The less attention they draw, the better.  What you're looking at here is a means of using subtle inluence to create signfiicant influence.  if you go after the big dogs directly, you run a greater risk of exposure.  Sometimes the indirect route is the more efficient and more effective.

Cerberus wants to kill Shepard. This has nothing to do with subtle influence.

Plus, the fact that they're viewed for their contributions to health and humanity for all of their defensive tech and medical breakthroughs gives them a perfect cover to do all sorts of biological research, and hide Reaper plans by giving the galaxy medi-gel, or disease-shattering vaccines.

All sorts of biological research? Like what? It's still illegal to well, illegal research. You don't need a great cover, just a cover.

Your point was, why indoctrinate a small group that's not a formiddable threat?  My point is, how do you define a formidable threat?  Subtle actions don't draw the kind of attention that Cerberus does and they lead to the threat you don't see coming.  Some of the more formidable threats are the ones you didn't anticipate.

First of all, I must recognize the antagonist of the group as a formidable opponent.
Secondly, the time of subtle influence is gone. The Reapers are reaping everyone. They don't need a subtle influence, just some commandos to go after Shepard.