411 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's nice to know that so many believes that no part of humanity would abuse their rule once humanity rises to the power above everyone else that Cerberus is trying to create.

Who said that?

A lot of people, apparently.

[Phaedon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's nice to know that so many believes that no part of humanity would abuse their rule once humanity rises to the power above everyone else that Cerberus is trying to create.

TIM certainly doesn't believe that.

"This base could have secured human dominance, over the Reapers and beyond"

I am sure that the base is full of candies, or at least that's what TIM hopes for. Nothing that could hurt anyone.

[GreenDragon37]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's nice to know that so many believes that no part of humanity would abuse their rule once humanity rises to the power above everyone else that Cerberus is trying to create.

Who said that?

A lot of people, apparently.

Can you be more... specific?

Most of the Cerberus supporters.

[AesirMan]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's nice to know that so many believes that no part of humanity would abuse their rule once humanity rises to the power above everyone else that Cerberus is trying to create.

Who said that?

A lot of people, apparently.

Can you be more... specific?

Most of the Cerberus supporters.

I said I trust that they are necessary but they need a bit more oversight from the Alliance.  Anyhow would you trust that no part of Turians, Salarians, Asari or Krogan would abuse their rule once they reach power above everyone else that they try to create?  

And don't tell me the Salarians, Turians and Asari ALL PLAY NICE with one another and everyone.... thats flat BS... they all try to one up the others.

[ShepardTheMetalhead]

Chris Priestly wrote...

No Paula, you really don't get it.

You have seen a few minutes of footage in a trailer. You do not yet know any of the details you are overguessing.

More will be revealed. in the future.

Sorry, wrong quote

Modifié par ShepardTheMetalhead, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:25 .

[ShepardTheMetalhead]

Sorry, messed up

[GreenDragon37]

AesirMan wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's nice to know that so many believes that no part of humanity would abuse their rule once humanity rises to the power above everyone else that Cerberus is trying to create.

Who said that?

A lot of people, apparently.

Can you be more... specific?

Most of the Cerberus supporters.

I said I trust that they are necessary but they need a bit more oversight from the Alliance.  Anyhow would you trust that no part of Turians, Salarians, Asari or Krogan would abuse their rule once they reach power above everyone else that they try to create?  

And don't tell me the Salarians, Turians and Asari ALL PLAY NICE with one another and everyone.... thats flat BS... they all try to one up the others.

I never said that. I know full well that everyone is out for themselves. I'm alright with competition, not outright domination because then it's so hypocritical. "Wah, the Council dominates us, they abuse their power".
Humanity kills the Council and siezes control. Shephard: "We need to force the other races to fall in line." Hypocritical.

I'm all for upping defences and strengthening our position, but not outright domination. Cerberus (as it is) and siezing control of the Citadel are just strentghening the view that we are "violent upstars" and would give the other species a reason to crack down on us.

[Someone With Mass]

AesirMan wrote...
I said I trust that they are necessary but they need a bit more oversight from the Alliance.  Anyhow would you trust that no part of Turians, Salarians, Asari or Krogan would abuse their rule once they reach power above everyone else that they try to create?  

And don't tell me the Salarians, Turians and Asari ALL PLAY NICE with one another and everyone.... thats flat BS... they all try to one up the others.

They've been relatively even for thousands of years, yet humanity tries to upset the power balance in less than fifty.

If any of them tries to put humanity below them, humanity deserves it.

It'd be like if the new kid in school tries to take control over everything from the bullying to the top spot in all the school activites. It's just not going to happen that easily.

[The Elder King]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The thing is, humanity has suggested cooperation and working together. However whenever this suggestion is made the response is "This is a human problem" or "We won't risk war over a few dozen human colonies."

Humanity has no choice but stand independent from the other races.

We no more "deserve" to be blow anyone than anyone deserves to be blow us. No race "deserves" anything. Their place in the hierarchy of power is whatever they can reach. If we can stand on top, we will, if not, we won't.

Although I don't like the Coucil's policy, I have to say that since the briefing mission between Shepard, Anderson and Nihlus in ME we know that the Council doesn't want war with the Terminus Systems. Both the Alliance and the colonists knew this. So it's the Alliance's responsibility to protect their colonies, not the Council. The same goes for the other race.
And humanity is doing what you're saying since the beginning in ME. That's the reason why they want to have a seat on the Council, to gain more power.

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The thing is, humanity has suggested cooperation and working together. However whenever this suggestion is made the response is "This is a human problem" or "We won't risk war over a few dozen human colonies."

Humanity has no choice but stand independent from the other races.

We no more "deserve" to be blow anyone than anyone deserves to be blow us. No race "deserves" anything. Their place in the hierarchy of power is whatever they can reach. If we can stand on top, we will, if not, we won't.

If someone attacked actual Alliance territory, then the Council would definitely come to play, even just to get more power.

Their decision over sending fleets into the Terminus Fleets is a correct one. You certainly don't need a confederacy of rogue states, do you? It's not neutral territory.

It would be like Aria sending a fleet near Palaven and taking over a random planet. How does that make the turians look? Would they not open war?

Every rogue state has sovereignty.

[KevShep]

TIM has been with the reapers since ME1. In ME1 cerberus was trying to make genetic super soldiers by experimenting on the rachni, thorian and so on and it just so happends that the reapers do in fact have genetic super soldiers.

TIM is...NOT...indoctrinated and I can prove it with mass effects own lore. Indoctrination will kill all of its hosts in days,weeks ,months but if TIM was working with the reapers before ME1 then that could have been years and indoctrinated hosts do not last that long without becoming a mindless husk even through slow indoctrination.

Modifié par KevShep, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

Those colonists even disowned the protection of the Alliance when they established colonies in the Terminus system. If they come under attack, it's their own damn fault, not the Alliance's.

[Phaedon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Those colonists even disowned the protection of the Alliance when they established colonies in the Terminus system. If they come under attack, it's their own damn fault, not the Alliance's.

Yeah, I wasn't referring to that. I think that that's not even debate-worthy. They are technically not even a part of the Alliance.

I was referring to them not sending a fleet to chase Saren. They did send Shepard, though.

[The Elder King]

KevShep wrote...

TIM has been with the reapers since ME1. In ME1 cerberus was trying to make genetic super soldiers by experimenting on the rachni, thorian and so on and it just so happends that the reapers do in fact have genetic super soldiers.

TIM is...NOT...indoctrinated and I can prove it with mass effects own lore. Indoctrination will kill all of its hosts in days,weeks ,months but if TIM was working with the reapers before ME1 then that could have been years and indoctrinated hosts do not last that long without becoming a mindless husk.

Hell no. He founded Cerberus to stop the Reapers, whenever they'll come. I am actually  against Cerberus (not hate, I don't like them and their methods), but it was clearly that he was against the Reapers.
If for any chance we'll find in ME3 that Cerberus was working with them since ME, it will be a serious trolling from Bioware. It will be for me the most stupid thing I ever see in a videogame (even more stupid that the megabomb that blown up the Chantry in Kirkwall).

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...

Yeah, I wasn't referring to that. I think that that's not even debate-worthy. They are technically not even a part of the Alliance.

I was referring to them not sending a fleet to chase Saren. They did send Shepard, though.

Still. Same rules applies there. The Council don't want anything to do with the Teminus system.

[Praetor Knight]

hhh89 wrote...

If for any chance we'll find in ME3 that Cerberus was working with them since ME, it will be a serious trolling from Bioware. It will be for me the most stupid thing I ever see in a videogame (even more stupid that the megabomb that blown up the Chantry in Kirkwall).

I dunno about silly stuff in games, the "All your base are belong to us" is a classic, among others.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:17 .

[KevShep]

hhh89 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

TIM has been with the reapers since ME1. In ME1 cerberus was trying to make genetic super soldiers by experimenting on the rachni, thorian and so on and it just so happends that the reapers do in fact have genetic super soldiers.

TIM is...NOT...indoctrinated and I can prove it with mass effects own lore. Indoctrination will kill all of its hosts in days,weeks ,months but if TIM was working with the reapers before ME1 then that could have been years and indoctrinated hosts do not last that long without becoming a mindless husk.

Hell no. He founded Cerberus to stop the Reapers, whenever they'll come. I am actually  against Cerberus (not hate, I don't like them and their methods), but it was clearly that he was against the Reapers.
If for any chance we'll find in ME3 that Cerberus was working with them since ME, it will be a serious trolling from Bioware. It will be for me the most stupid thing I ever see in a videogame (even more stupid that the megabomb that blown up the Chantry in Kirkwall).

Why is that stupid? and did he really start cerberus to stop the reapers or is it the other way around?  Think about it the reapers are after humans.......cerberus is a human group that got powerfull at a convenient time. Also cerberus experimental genetic super soldiers in ME1 are now fighting on the reapers side in ME3 demos.

Modifié par KevShep, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:22 .

[The Elder King]

KevShep wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

TIM has been with the reapers since ME1. In ME1 cerberus was trying to make genetic super soldiers by experimenting on the rachni, thorian and so on and it just so happends that the reapers do in fact have genetic super soldiers.

TIM is...NOT...indoctrinated and I can prove it with mass effects own lore. Indoctrination will kill all of its hosts in days,weeks ,months but if TIM was working with the reapers before ME1 then that could have been years and indoctrinated hosts do not last that long without becoming a mindless husk.

Hell no. He founded Cerberus to stop the Reapers, whenever they'll come. I am actually  against Cerberus (not hate, I don't like them and their methods), but it was clearly that he was against the Reapers.
If for any chance we'll find in ME3 that Cerberus was working with them since ME, it will be a serious trolling from Bioware. It will be for me the most stupid thing I ever see in a videogame (even more stupid that the megabomb that blown up the Chantry in Kirkwall).

Why is that stupid? and did he really start cerberus to stop the reapers or is it the other way around? 

It was stated in a comic that he found Cerberus to stop them. And it's stupid because he helped Shepard to blown up the Collector's Base, among a larva of Human Reaper. He helped Liara retrieve Shepard's body, while the Shadow Broker wanted to give him to the Collectors.
Though I said that it'll be stupid for me. I can accept the fact that Cerberus works with the Reapers (though I don't like), but the fact that they worked for them before ME2, I can't.

Modifié par hhh89, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:22 .

[Saaziel]

hhh89 wrote...
Hell no. He founded Cerberus to stop the Reapers, whenever they'll come.

Someone told me that some other Bioware game had a quote from Nietzsche. I'm paraphrasing here ,but it goes a little something like this ;

"He who fights monsters might take care lest he become a monster himself . And if you gaze into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

Not that I'm a big Nietzsche fan , but its clear some at BW might be, so i wouldn't call it trolling on their part.

Modifié par Saaziel, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:25 .

[The Elder King]

Saaziel wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Hell no. He founded Cerberus to stop the Reapers, whenever they'll come.

Someone told me that some other Bioware game had a quote from Nietzsche. I'm paraphrasing here but it goes a little something like this - He who fights monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster himself . And if you gaze into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.-

Not that I'm a big Nietzsche fan , but its clear some at BW might be, so i wouldn't call trolling on their part.

My problem isn't that TIM joins the Reapers, or that he becomes a monster. My problem is that he worked with them since ME. Which I can't neither understand or accept. Maybe it's not trolling. They could do whatever they want with their games. But for me, it will be stupid, and I don't know if I can accept it. Not that Bioware should care about me. It's only my opinion.

[alperez]

Aesir i get where your coming from, i don't agree with you line of thought but i do understand your frustration.

My main gripe with your line of thinking is that despite any evidence to the contrary, despite any inkling that this might be the way things might shape up you and others refuse to accept 2 fundamental points.

1. Cerberus in me1 were an organisation that we fought against (side missions only) and were basically told were terrorists.

2. in me2 despite whatever reservations we may have had we were forced to work with these same people in order to achieve a certain goal.

We're given certain info in me1, its expanded on in me2 and we see that we know or what we think we know may not be the full story, We then arrive at me3 and find that for some reason Cerberus are no longer allies but are actually working against us.

Now here's the key point, all of these things have to mesh up and work in a continous story arc, the problem is that no matter how its written (good or bad) no matter how they story arc plays out, cerberus loyalists won't accept any outcome that doesn't either paint TIM as a super genius with a master plan or a misunderstood hero.

Something he may never have been intended to play either way, if Biowares plan all along was to show TIM and Cerberus as antagonists and their goals and ideals as being the wrong choice then writing it the way they may have would accomplish all that.

We need to gather allies in me3, allies that may not want to work for someone who works with Cerberus, something they have already shown us by not allowing us to work with the Alliance or Council in me2. Its a similar thing with choosing a council made up entirely of humans, you immediately create a level of distrust amongs alien races.

Perhaps the only way to beat the reapers is to unify the galaxy if so can that be done with someone who shares Cerberus's ideals and goals?

By introducing Cerberus in me1, fleshing them out and forcing us to work with them despite how we may feel when it comes to me3 and they turn on us we at least have idea of who they are, which again may have been the role they always were supposed to play. What they may not have counted on was that some people would turn out to like this group and want to continue working for them.

At the end of the day we don't though have enough info about why things look to be shaping up how they're shaping up, We don't even know if Shepard really is back fulltime with the alliance or council or just saying so to get the job done.

What we do know is that in order to unify the galaxy, the alliance and council would be key components in this, that it would almost be impossible to do it without them. We also know that Cerberus is perceived as terrorists by both these organisations and by most of the galaxy.

Given the choice Cerberus on your side and no one else or everyone else but no cerberus who would you pick? and logically is it possible that the rest of the galaxy would just ignore every action cerberus has ever taken and accept their help knowing what goal cerberus ultimately wants?