411 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

Seboist wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Gixxer6Rdr wrote...
"So what they tortured and murdered kids in terrible ways, they iz trying to better hoomanitee!!!"

Neat differences of opinion. Cerberus is on borrowed time for all of my games.

Pragia was a rogue cell and as soon as TIM found at about what they were doing he sent agents to shut it down. (only to find Jack had already killed everybody anyway)


EDIT: I swear it's like people are trying to make up excuses to hate TIM

Yeah and the poor guy doesn't get any credit for saving humanity from the Collectors.

Eh, he wanted to keep the CB, which in my opinion is wrong. He was near to convince me in the CB briefing.

[GodWood]

Phaedon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Explain Pragia then.

Rogue cell.

No. Cell that went, eventually rogue.

The whole operation was about abducting and testing on children. They didn't go rogue until children started dying and TIM requested reports.

In game evidence?

I thought it was more of a TIM makes general statement and the scientists fulfill his goal as they fit.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Neither do the Alliance Council.

What is the lesson here, that I can't trust anybody?

Cerberus isn't perfect, but they've been a bigger help to me than they've been a hindrance. So I'll stick with them at least until the Reapers are eradicated.

Yeah. You do that. Enjoy the meeting with Nemesis. She will really like to meet you.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Also, TIM withheld valuable information that could've made some operations with Shepard a lot smoother, but in his delusional world, the Collectors and the Reapers can hear every word they say.

No, he didn't. He withheld information that might have spoiled your mission before it had even begun. Try not thinking of yourself as the center of the universe for a change.

So, acting on suspicions and hunches is okay, but securing/disabling valuable enemy technology like the Collector Ship's IFF isn't?

Sorry if I want to know details that might have saved me a lot of trouble.

But I think TIM has never heard of tactical information. Nope, charging in blind like another Leeroy and hoping for the best is where's it's at.

[Barquiel]

GodWood wrote...

EDIT: I swear it's like people are trying to make up excuses to hate TIM

It would be difficult to make Cerberus more evil than they are.

Pragia, Akuze, Trapdoor...
One wonders if it can get much worse.

[Phaedon]

Seboist, I'll give you that, you are persistent, I have lost track of the debates you start about Cerberus taking credit for taking out the Collector threat, during which you claim that Shepard's actions=Cerberus actions.

I just don't understand why you stop participating in them after a while and find another thread to make that claim.

[Gixxer6Rdr]

"Cerberus isn't bad." Is like saying, "Well, Darth Vader killed the Emperor, he was a great guy despite all the people that he butchered on the way to that conclusion!"

[Phaedon]

GodWood wrote...

EDIT: I swear it's like people are trying to make up excuses to hate TIM

TIM's actions are immoral.

They include:
-Political Assassinations to ensure the dominance of politicians with neo-ultranationalist ideals.
-Murder of alliance personnel for no apparent reason (Thresher Maw death traps)
-Irradiation of colonies (which resulted to brain tumours and death of many colonists, etcetera, etcetera)
-Attacking the Migrant Fleet and Alliance ships
-Abducting little children
-Abduction, torture and murder of others.

Just try not to hate this:
Helios Medical Facility
Eden Prime, 2165

Tapped for possible Cerberus involvement


Doctor Castor: I'm so sorry. These things... there's so much about prenatal Element Zero exposure that we don't understand.

Unidentified Woman: But... no! No, she was fine! She was fine and happy! You just told me she needed a checkup!

DC: It happened quickly. We were unable to bring her back.

UW: You just said she needed a checkup! How did this happen?

DC: I'm very sorry.

UW: I want to see her!

DC: No ma'am. Believe me. After what the seizures did to the poor child's body, you don't.

UW: I don't... How did this happen?

DC: We don't know. I'll be honest. This isn't the first infant we've lost this way.

UW: Why? God. Why?

DC: We're working on treatments. The government doesn't put much effort into it, though. Don't want to interfere with their biotic recruitments.

UW: Sons of ****es. Those sons of ****es!

DC: Listen... this may not be the right time, but if you'd be willing to let us study your baby's body, we can do some tests.

UW: You want to keep her?

DC: I don't want another family to go through what you went through.

UW: I... Okay. Yes. Whatever helps.

DC: Thank you so much. The nurse will have you sign a few forms. I'm so sorry, ma'am.

(Unidentified Woman leaves at this point)

DC: Open a secure channel, authorization 3362... Yes. It's me. I've got a candidate... Yes, highest potential I've seen in years... No, the family has been dealt with. Send a team from Pragia ASAP.

-

[Luigitornado]

Don't over think it right now. Wait until the game is released and then complain if you still don't get it.

[Praetor Knight]

GodWood wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Explain Pragia then.

Rogue cell.

No. Cell that went, eventually rogue.

The whole operation was about abducting and testing on children. They didn't go rogue until children started dying and TIM requested reports.

In game evidence?

I thought it was more of a TIM makes general statement and the scientists fulfill his goal as they fit.

There's like two or three damaged recordings, even Jack can't believe what she's hearing.


Edit: And I think that Miranda has a few comments related to those recording, if She comes along.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:26 .

[The Elder King]

Saphra Deden wrote...



Dozens? No are exaggerating. Pragia and Teltin went rogue, two operations in the span of twenty years. Both were dealt with before serious or irrepairable damage could be done. Otherwise Cerberus has been very useful. They saved the Citadel, saved humanity, and saved Shepard.

Is this about the Normandy or ME Galaxy? Because in the first case, I can't agree. They helped in the creation of the Normandy, sure, but that doesn't mean that much. The Fifth Fleet saved the Citadel in ME, with Shepard persistence in pursuing Saren.

About the Sole Survivor thing, I only regret the possibility to said in an explicit way that I don't trust TIM and Cerberus a bit. Killing and destroy them, no. Willing or not, Shepard in ME2 needs help to stop the Collectors, and only Cereberus is willing to do it.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:27 .

[Icinix]

Gixxer6Rdr wrote...

"Cerberus isn't bad." Is like saying, "Well, Darth Vader killed the Emperor, he was a great guy despite all the people that he butchered on the way to that conclusion!"

I think thats a great comparison. Even the whole of the Empire to Cerberus.

They'll do anything for their vision of what the galaxy should be. Even if that means the most viscious and vile experiments, even if it means sacrifices of any cost (I bet TIM wouldn't sacrifice himself though).

Cerberus as a whole is bad, bad news. Their means, methods and ultimate goal is nightmare stuff.  Whatever good they might have done is only to further their agenda.  It doesn't make a man noble to save another man, if he's only saved him to become his master.

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Dozens? No are exaggerating. Pragia and Teltin went rogue, two operations in the span of twenty years. Both were dealt with before serious or irrepairable damage could be done. Otherwise Cerberus has been very useful. They saved the Citadel, saved humanity, and saved Shepard.

-Attempting to steal Eezo from SSV Geneva. Failed. All operatives captured or killed, Cerberus incriminated.
-Experiments with Rachni, Listening Post Alpha and Theta. Failed. Accidentally unleashed.
-Ascension Project. Infiltration failed, operative abandoned Cerberus.
-Attack on the Migrant Fleet. Failed, Quarians kicked their ass.
-Pragia, Teltin, cell goes rogue, all test subjects die, Subject zero flees. Failed.
-Overlord, cell goes rogue, all operatives die, due to retarded medical professional not realizing that people's minds don't work very well when they are awake for days. Failed.
-Retribution. Most Cerberus bases raided, good part of econic/politcal cell detained. Failed?
-ME1. Possible failure on three stations, as well as husk experiments.
-Lazarus Project. Technically a success, with all operatives but two dying in the process. Incompetence.
-Reaper IFF Project. All operatives get indoctrinated. Failure.

-

So what? We're in a fighting for survival here, not in competition for the Nobel Peace Prize.

All the morality in the galaxy won't save us from extinction.

The whole point is that Cerberus is basically shouting at you: We? To become traitors? Only if it's profitable!

And that's because they don't have morals. Not trustworthy.

You need to realize that Cerberus doesn't even need to be indoctrinated to start shooting at you.

What, like all the posters here with Sole Survivor Shepards who want to destroy Cerberus becuase of Akuze, even despite Cerberus being the only thing that saved them and humanity in ME2? I'm not biting.

Not just Akuze, not just the paragon ending, and not just Retribution.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:33 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
What are you going to do, take over the entire vessel with your three man team and then systematically dismantle it until you find the IFF? He told you why he didn't tell you: you wouldn't have had time to look at you might have tipped off the Collectors, spoiling the trap and robbing you of any chance to data-mine their ship computers.

Well, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't go inside a hostile ship that's powered down if I don't know what caused it. I would start by doing some damage myself.

For that matter, just disable the ship by locating its mass effect core and destroy it or take out their weapons, at least. Don't just stand there and be surprised when they're powering up the whole ship with EDI as the only obstacle.

I don't think any real military in the world would move in on such little information. Especially when the place is a tactical nightmare.

[Phaedon]

Oh, and something some people seem to be forgetting.

The Alliance, and possibly the Council as well, are democratically elected governments, not mere organizations.

EDIT: Anyway, I'll be back tomorrow. I can compile a list of Cerberus' crimes and failures, if you wish.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .

[The Elder King]

Saphra Deden wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Is this about the Normandy or ME Galaxy? Because in the first case, I can't agree.

Try the second case.

Of course, they saved the Citadel once. Too bad Bioware decided that in ME3 they want to destroy it, along other sentient races with (maybe, if they aren't indoctrinated) the exception of humanity.

[The Elder King]

Phaedon wrote...

Oh, and something some people seem to be forgetting.

The Alliance, and possibly the Council as well, are democratically elected governments, not mere organizations.

EDIT: Anyway, I'll be back tomorrow. I can compile a list of Cerberus' crimes and failures, if you wish.

Being an organization doesn't mean they they are evil though.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Just like they handled the salvage operation for Sovereign, right?

"We can't account for even half of that thing."

Or how about their investigation into Saren?

Because they were the only ones trying to salvage it, right? It's not like the turians tried to scrape together what was left of its element zer--Oh. Right.

[Dave of Canada]

Haven't you heard? If somebody is immoral, it means they are evil and should die!