556 réponses à ce sujet

[solmyr-fr]

aridor1570 wrote...

You make it sound like they've been showing us gameplay footage for months, this is THE FIRST time we see anything at all.

Yes you're right. I just hope you're right and that they"ll show us the RPG features soon.

But some quick answers during an interview or demo (outside the main demo/trailer they had to show during the EA conference) would have been usefull. Action-fans are probably very happy after this demo and a simple "yes there will be an inventory and when you'll kill enney and earn XP you'll probably also loot weapon upgrades to improve ..." would have been a great gift for RPG-fans.

One small sentence in an interview (not the in main conference if it's "bad for sell" ...) or even here on the forum, it's all I (or we?) asked.

[Commander Shep4rd]

solmyr-fr wrote...

jakal66 wrote...

We need to see some footage of these so called enhance RPG elements we've heard so much about...period.That will end this debate and start another one.

Absolutely. Only a few words and answers to several features that were delayed (or drasticallychanged) in ME2 would be enough to make people (including me) stop worrying about the RPG side of the game (other than choice / story telling that are indeed awesome in all ME games but not enough to make the game an RPG)

- inventory ( where did my inventory go ^^ ? Christina Norman did a good przzi a long time ago about that but we have no true answer about the return of a true inventory ... if they are so much weapons customisations there must be one ... but if we can only get a limited number of weapons... it's possible that there will be no inventory :/ )

- XP for EACH enemy killed as in ME1 (or sub quest done/progress) and not at the end each mission as in ME2 (I really dislike the mission system on ME2... it breaks the game continuity). I assume every RPG fan enjoy earning XP ... I prefer to gain 100 * (100~200) XP for each enemy i kill every 20 seconds than one time 10000 XP at the end of the mission every two hours.

- lockpicking (hum sorry ... decryption ^^)

- enhanced skill trees (I think we can be relieved here assuming what they annonced about "multiple powers choices" is true)

- influence of RPG statistics (precision, damage...) on the shooter side of the game (Christina Norman said it will be more visible than in ME2 I think)

...

A simple "yes this feature will be in ME3"  (or no :'()  will easily relieved RPG fans ... I really do not know why they keep showing only the action-side of the game :'(

I dont really understand these people, myself these features would be very welcome to me
But you poeple have to understand this is the FIRST videos ever of ME,BE GLAD that they decided to show us a 15 minute demo they already showed us ALOT rolling from cover to cover,executions,faster pacing etc.
just be patient andswe´re going to see the weapon modding and skill trees luke they did in the N7 developer diary of ME2,few weeks before the actual release.
If the DIRECTOR himself said that they were improving the RPG i don´t know why distrust. I don´t see a reason why he would lie to his customers anyway the game will be amazing no doubt.
 him

[Clonedzero]

how do you guys really expect them to go into detail about rpg elements or dialogue in a TWO MINUTE DEMO?

people have way too high expectations.

"show ME what I want to see! i don't care about combat! i wanna see what I WANNA SEE!"
more will be revealed later, relax people. its action heavy demo/trailers because thats what GRABS PEOPLES ATTENTION. which is what they want to do.

showing dialogue and story elements not only spoil things but only interest people who are ALREADY interested in the game.

[Jaron Oberyn]

aridor1570 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

MGIII wrote...

You, the player, are playing the role of Commander Shepard. You decide how the story plays out for Shepard.

In what manner is that not roleplaying?

Go back and play through ME2, and count the number of times that the game assumes control, no pun intended, of your character. Now, go back and play LoTSB and Arrival, and continue to see how many times the game assumes control of the character. How is it roleplaying when your dialogue choices and decisions are already made for you? How can each player have a unique experience when we all have the exact same auto dialogue/decisions being made? Do you consider simply choosing where shepard goes, or the orders in which the missions are initiated roleplaying?

-Polite

LoTSB and Arrival were briding DLC.

Wow I had no clue. 

-Polite

[BeefoTheBold]

Warlock Adam wrote...

*sigh

Trollers gonna troll.

Game's not out until March, all we've seen is some snippets of shooter gameplay, and you're complaining already? Stop whining about lack of roleplaying in a demo designed to showcase the new gameplay features.

I guarantee if they had shown roleplaying and dialogue, people would have flipped a s*** over spoilers.

The definition of trolling is someone making posts for the sole purpose of aggravating or offending just because they enjoy ticking people off. 

I've seen very little of this in this thread. I've seen people listing a specific complaint that they have, and drawing parallels of where that complaint is coming from by pointing out weaknesses in the same specific area in ME2 specifically and a few other Bioware recent releases more broadly.

In other words, people are making posts about the missing RPG pieces in the hopes of seeing more of them in the future because they're worried that the final product will be lacking in this area, not because they just want to annoy people like you.

[MGIII]

Nohvarr wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

MissMaster wrote...

Can't really show any role playing with out spoilers.

I believe you can. There can be explicit demonstration of inventory, skill trees, looting, user interface for statistical analysis of items and weapons....there is a vast amount that can be shown without spoiling.

Why would they show that at E3? People want confirmation that it's going to be the epic finish they've wanted, that's been shown via gameplay at set pieces. Slowing that down to show inventory to please people who will get what they want later gains them little.

You all complain now, but in six months they could flood the board with the RPG info you want and you all would be buying the game. So they show the action, characters, and stories to hook the majority of gamers, and then release more intimate RPG info late to pick up the spare.

I know what sequences of which you speak, but the instances where you do have direct control of the story far outweigh those in which Shepard's actions are decided for you.

And this is much the same as ME1. Bioware has a story to tell, and they can only give the player so much control without compromising the integrity of the core story. This has always been the case, and the premise of your complaints are disingenious thusly.

[Ixalmaris]

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

solmyr-fr wrote...

jakal66 wrote...

We need to see some footage of these so called enhance RPG elements we've heard so much about...period.That will end this debate and start another one.

Absolutely. Only a few words and answers to several features that were delayed (or drasticallychanged) in ME2 would be enough to make people (including me) stop worrying about the RPG side of the game (other than choice / story telling that are indeed awesome in all ME games but not enough to make the game an RPG)

- inventory ( where did my inventory go ^^ ? Christina Norman did a good przzi a long time ago about that but we have no true answer about the return of a true inventory ... if they are so much weapons customisations there must be one ... but if we can only get a limited number of weapons... it's possible that there will be no inventory :/ )

- XP for EACH enemy killed as in ME1 (or sub quest done/progress) and not at the end each mission as in ME2 (I really dislike the mission system on ME2... it breaks the game continuity). I assume every RPG fan enjoy earning XP ... I prefer to gain 100 * (100~200) XP for each enemy i kill every 20 seconds than one time 10000 XP at the end of the mission every two hours.

- lockpicking (hum sorry ... decryption ^^)

- enhanced skill trees (I think we can be relieved here assuming what they annonced about "multiple powers choices" is true)

- influence of RPG statistics (precision, damage...) on the shooter side of the game (Christina Norman said it will be more visible than in ME2 I think)

...

A simple "yes this feature will be in ME3"  (or no :'()  will easily relieved RPG fans ... I really do not know why they keep showing only the action-side of the game :'(

I dont really understand these people, myself these features would be very welcome to me
But you poeple have to understand this is the FIRST videos ever of ME,BE GLAD that they decided to show us a 15 minute demo they already showed us ALOT rolling from cover to cover,executions,faster pacing etc.
just be patient andswe´re going to see the weapon modding and skill trees luke they did in the N7 developer diary of ME2,few weeks before the actual release.
If the DIRECTOR himself said that they were improving the RPG i don´t know why distrust. I don´t see a reason why he would lie to his customers anyway the game will be amazing no doubt.
 him

They showed a lot?
The only thing they showed is that you can now roll and have a melee weapon. Thats all.
Why I distrust him?
Because the last few Bioware releases, starting with ME2 stripped more and more RPG elements from their game, culminating in the awful DA2 all the while the developers praised and defended their choices and even attacked dissatisfied customers.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 06 juin 2011 - 11:43 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Seeing as they have made a point of saying they are improving the RPG elements and whatnot it would have been nice to get a bit of that. But I remain hopeful we will see some at E3 proper (this was a day all about trailers afterall) and that regardless they are making every effort to stuff it full of RPG-y goodness.

But yeah, dat turret section really didn't help avoid this sort of thread/misconception popping up. But then, what did people expect from Shep versus Reaper gameplay? There was always going to be either MAKO-style sections or turret-y bits. It's not as if that will make up the majority of the gameplay.

[MissMaster]

Ixalmaris wrote...


Just because they did not show it does not mean its there.

It seems no mater what BioWare would have done they would ****** off some fans. It's like they can't win, someone somewhere is going to be butthurt for something.

Personaly I thought ME2 was a good balence of RP and shooter.

And I hope they keep that balance in ME3.

This is the first look at ME3, calm down.

Modifié par MissMaster, 06 juin 2011 - 11:45 .

[Schneidend]

Ixalmaris wrote...

No, those are buzzwords and mechanics. And unless shown I don't believe they exist in a meaningful way.

I don't think you really understand what a "buzzword" is. Buzzwords are vague words that resonate with a target audience particularly well. "Immersion/immersive," "choices," "consequences," etc. Those are buzzwords. The ability to choose parts that go into your weapons is not a buzzword, and neither is having more options for armor customization. Those are what we in the business call "sentences."

You're just being stubborn if you're going to regard everything Bioware employees say as marketing nonsense. Christina Norman is not a PR person. She's the director of the gameplay mechanics. She's responsible for the things you can actually do to influence the action. Casey Hudson is partially a PR person. That's a big part of his role in the franchise. You can take what he says with a grain of salt. However, when other devs more directly involved with the nuts and bolts of the game say these things, you should probably take heed.

[ink07]

That video shows nothing RPG related, not even a word. I've been watching all this stuff live and never has there been a mention of RPG stuff in any of them. Not once.

Seriously Bioware. Just call it a shooter. Come out and say: "We are making a third person shooter" and be done with it. No shame in that, many a studio are making shooters these days. yours is more "cinematic" and theres "tons of dialogue" and theres "a branching path" and whatever. It's still a pretty unique Action game that plays fine.

You do yourselves no favors clamoring you are still some RPG house, or your games are still within that genre, then when they finally ship these elements nowhere to be found, and still you act surprised when your fans call you out for it.
You'd be speaking honestly for once and you'd give a lot of people a little peace of mind, especially people that see Zeschuk namedrop Baldur's Gate 2 in the same breath as Dragon age 2 and laugh it off as if nothing had happened.

Modifié par ink07, 06 juin 2011 - 11:45 .

[Chuvvy]

Showing gameplay at E3 makes more sense than showing RPG features. I love stats and inventory, but they're not exactly eye catching.

[candidate88766]

What annoys me most about this thread is that many people aren't even willing to wait until the end of E3. The conferences give games a few minutes to make an impact and wow the crowd - of course they'll be showing off action. Over the rest of E3 Bioware gets to show extended demos to the media and people at E3, which is the perfect place for them to show off their RPG features. At least give them a chance before ranting.

Also, has anyone considered that the lack of dialogue choices is almost certainly down to a. the voice recording not being finished or b. Bioware not wanting to spoil us. It doesn't show that Bioware has taken away our conversation choices.

[BeefoTheBold]

MGIII wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

MissMaster wrote...

Can't really show any role playing with out spoilers.

I believe you can. There can be explicit demonstration of inventory, skill trees, looting, user interface for statistical analysis of items and weapons....there is a vast amount that can be shown without spoiling.

Why would they show that at E3? People want confirmation that it's going to be the epic finish they've wanted, that's been shown via gameplay at set pieces. Slowing that down to show inventory to please people who will get what they want later gains them little.

You all complain now, but in six months they could flood the board with the RPG info you want and you all would be buying the game. So they show the action, characters, and stories to hook the majority of gamers, and then release more intimate RPG info late to pick up the spare.

I know what sequences of which you speak, but the instances where you do have direct control of the story far outweigh those in which Shepard's actions are decided for you.

And this is much the same as ME1. Bioware has a story to tell, and they can only give the player so much control without compromising the integrity of the core story. This has always been the case, and the premise of your complaints are disingenious thusly.

There's a middle ground that can be found with keeping certain elements of choice involved in how the player plays the game and still having a coherent story.

Not every single choice needs to be impactful, but some of them do and there should be multiple possible endings to a true RPG.

It's right there in the genre's name: Role Playing

It is what separates the genre from others out there. YOU are playing the role and therefore YOU get to choose what you as Shepard would do in certain situations.

[Ixalmaris]

Schneidend wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

No, those are buzzwords and mechanics. And unless shown I don't believe they exist in a meaningful way.

I don't think you really understand what a "buzzword" is. Buzzwords are vague words that resonate with a target audience particularly well. "Immersion/immersive," "choices," "consequences," etc. Those are buzzwords. The ability to choose parts that go into your weapons is not a buzzword, and neither is having more options for armor customization. Those are what we in the business call "sentences."

You're just being stubborn if you're going to regard everything Bioware employees say as marketing nonsense. Christina Norman is not a PR person. She's the director of the gameplay mechanics. She's responsible for the things you can actually do to influence the action. Casey Hudson is partially a PR person. That's a big part of his role in the franchise. You can take what he says with a grain of salt. However, when other devs more directly involved with the nuts and bolts of the game say these things, you should probably take heed.

Everyone who gives interviews and otherwise has contact with the customer is briefed on what to say and what not. Especially a high ranking person like Norman working on a multi-million dollar project.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 06 juin 2011 - 11:47 .

[szkasypcze]

Please Bioware don't kill MASS EFFECT!!!!

[VoidCabbage]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

VoidCabbage wrote...

That is obviously subjective but whatever. (the story = weak)

Something to note about Mass Effect 2 is, it is a very different type of story then Mass Effect 1.

In the original it was our first adventure into a new world and it had lots of set up for the setting. It set up the galaxy as it is now... the history aswell as the big evil enemies and what they are doing. And alot more.

Mass effect 2 on the other hand. Took place in an established world. Sure they can show us new bits (and they did... Omega for example) But the core of the story is the characters. It was very much a character piece.

That is not to say that the original did not have strong characters. Just rather that the focus was more on the galaxy and setting.

Anyway what story was better is subjective. I've always been a character guy and I prefer 2. Obviously you prefer 1. But don't say that 2 was weak like its an objective fact. It is not (a fact).

Actually, from a literary standpoint, not advancing the plot at all is synonymous with weak storytelling. It's just not always obvious in ME2 because it has such a great story that it inherited from ME1.

Take as an example the Harry Potter books. (Nowhere close to my favorite, but wanted to pick material that I'm reasonably sure that EVERYONE is familiar with.)

If all there was to the books was Harry's interaction with his classmates, and there was no magic involved, no Voldemort, no gradual build up to a final battle, no thwarting the bad guy, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have had 8 different books.

A certain amount of character development is essential to make people care about what's happening, but if that is all that happens eventually people lose interest.

Certainly it is debateable on where that line is between the need to advance the plot and the need to develop the characters, but sooner or later if you DON'T advance the plot then the story falls apart. I think if ME1's plot wasn't so rock solid and if the setting hadn't been setup so well in ME1, the shortcomings in the storyline pacing in ME2 would have become much more apparent.

Probably 90% of ME2 was side-missions either recruiting characters or tending to their various problems across the galaxy.

Not saying this isn't important and a part of what made the game fun to play, but ME2 did not advance the plot from ME1 in any really meaningful way when you get right down to it. If the game hadn't happened and we went straight from ME1 to ME3, it wouldn't feel like we skipped over anything plotwise.

Well I mean, certainly we would need Arrival so as to set up the whole court thing... but thats besides the point.

I can see your point. You could probably tell the story without ME2. But I don't think of that as an issue. Looking at it from a tv show perspective (using firefly as an example.) Mass Effect 1 is like the first episode of firefly... sets everything up, keeps the story moving... just pure awesomeness.. Where Mass Effect 2 is more like the episode Jaynestown. Sure for the overarching story of the season it may not be essential.. but its certainly entertaining (and whats the point of video games if not entertainment.)

[MGIII]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

There's a middle ground that can be found with keeping certain elements of choice involved in how the player plays the game and still having a coherent story.

Not every single choice needs to be impactful, but some of them do and there should be multiple possible endings to a true RPG.

It's right there in the genre's name: Role Playing

It is what separates the genre from others out there. YOU are playing the role and therefore YOU get to choose what you as Shepard would do in certain situations.

Why quote me and say the exact same thing I did?

[slimgrin]

Slidell505 wrote...

Showing gameplay at E3 makes more sense than showing RPG features. I love stats and inventory, but they're not exactly eye catching.

Show the stats, the inventory....ROCKIN' TO MARILYN MANSON BABY!!

[Occulo]

Slidell505 wrote...

Showing gameplay at E3 makes more sense than showing RPG features. I love stats and inventory, but they're not exactly eye catching.

Don't forget that it's a Kinect conference intending to showcase how the Kinect is relevant to "hardcore gaming". I've said this before but I hardly think that inventory, skill tree, and the rest navigation is going to blow people's socks off in regards to the Kinect. At least not mine.

[Whatever42]

"The second big area that we're focusing on is a deeper RPG experience. So really getting into a deep experience with big choices about how you want to play. You can throw your weapon down on a bench and upgrade it, plugging in different parts. You're buying and selling a lot more stuff. You're customizing your armor a lot more."

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 06 juin 2011 - 11:48 .

[Ixalmaris]

Slidell505 wrote...

Showing gameplay at E3 makes more sense than showing RPG features. I love stats and inventory, but they're not exactly eye catching.

RPG is also gameplay.

[BeefoTheBold]

candidate88766 wrote...

What annoys me most about this thread is that many people aren't even willing to wait until the end of E3. The conferences give games a few minutes to make an impact and wow the crowd - of course they'll be showing off action. Over the rest of E3 Bioware gets to show extended demos to the media and people at E3, which is the perfect place for them to show off their RPG features. At least give them a chance before ranting.

Also, has anyone considered that the lack of dialogue choices is almost certainly down to a. the voice recording not being finished or b. Bioware not wanting to spoil us. It doesn't show that Bioware has taken away our conversation choices.

I wish people would stop reiterating this "all or nothing" argument.

It IS possible to show SOME RPG pieces without spoiling the entire game. Even if you don't want to show dialog branching leading to genuinely differentiated outcomes, you could still, for example, demonstrate expanded skill trees as just one example.

I'm not saying that Bioware won't release more RPG details in the days and months ahead. I AM saying that I'm getting more than a little antsy to start seeing some focus in this area.

I get it. Bioware's proud of their enhanced new shooter gameplay combat. Wonderful.

Now how about getting back to your bread-and-butter a little bit?

[ink07]

They've spoiled like half the plot in Gameinformer now, Cerberus working with the reapers, what is each supporting character doing and in what capacity, mechs, Krogan princess storyline, Anderson fights with you, etc. I fail to see how a simple good/bad choice could spoil anything any further.

[theSteeeeels]

for everyone who didnt like me2 i wouldnt get your hopes up on me3. it really does seem like it will be me2.5

look at all the information we're getting improving everything but the things we want to see. and when it comes to answering the right questions, bioware say, "oh yeah, we've improved that". seriously how vague have they been about the rpg elements, exploration etc. (p.s, the game even looks the exact same as me2!!!)

step back and look at the big picture, bioware make amazing games which we all know, including me1, then EA buys them and they make da2 and me2. its not even a question where this company is going

BUT, bioware guys HAVE PROMISED enchanced rpg features (however vague theyve been about it) so we should all reserve our judgement until after E3 and after we've seen the demos. its make or break i feel