556 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

As for RP, basically due to decisions made both during the previous 2 games (something Casey has mentioned several times now) and most likely also choices made during ME3, the game will PLAY out differently depending on how you ROLEPLAYED gosh did I just say that word, why yes, I believe I did.

Which means ME 1 and 2 were RPGs. ME3 is just en epilogue to see how you choices in the previous game affect the world.

I refer to the part I bolded which clearly you missed. Do try to read the whole sentence rather than what you wanted to read so you could make some poor response.

It isn't an epilogue, it's the final chapter in Shepard's story. Epilogue will come at the END of ME3... not during it.

[Commander Shep4rd]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

solmyr-fr wrote...

jakal66 wrote...

We need to see some footage of these so called enhance RPG elements we've heard so much about...period.That will end this debate and start another one.

Absolutely. Only a few words and answers to several features that were delayed (or drasticallychanged) in ME2 would be enough to make people (including me) stop worrying about the RPG side of the game (other than choice / story telling that are indeed awesome in all ME games but not enough to make the game an RPG)

- inventory ( where did my inventory go ^^ ? Christina Norman did a good przzi a long time ago about that but we have no true answer about the return of a true inventory ... if they are so much weapons customisations there must be one ... but if we can only get a limited number of weapons... it's possible that there will be no inventory :/ )

- XP for EACH enemy killed as in ME1 (or sub quest done/progress) and not at the end each mission as in ME2 (I really dislike the mission system on ME2... it breaks the game continuity). I assume every RPG fan enjoy earning XP ... I prefer to gain 100 * (100~200) XP for each enemy i kill every 20 seconds than one time 10000 XP at the end of the mission every two hours.

- lockpicking (hum sorry ... decryption ^^)

- enhanced skill trees (I think we can be relieved here assuming what they annonced about "multiple powers choices" is true)

- influence of RPG statistics (precision, damage...) on the shooter side of the game (Christina Norman said it will be more visible than in ME2 I think)

...

A simple "yes this feature will be in ME3"  (or no :'()  will easily relieved RPG fans ... I really do not know why they keep showing only the action-side of the game :'(

I dont really understand these people, myself these features would be very welcome to me
But you poeple have to understand this is the FIRST videos ever of ME,BE GLAD that they decided to show us a 15 minute demo they already showed us ALOT rolling from cover to cover,executions,faster pacing etc.
just be patient andswe´re going to see the weapon modding and skill trees luke they did in the N7 developer diary of ME2,few weeks before the actual release.
If the DIRECTOR himself said that they were improving the RPG i don´t know why distrust. I don´t see a reason why he would lie to his customers anyway the game will be amazing no doubt.
 him

They showed a lot?
The only thing they showed is that you can now roll and have a melee weapon. Thats all.

And a full level,Atlas mech,kinect interaction,Cerberus troopers,a Spider-reaper,Batarian husk yeah thats ALOT.

[sympathy4saren]

Nohvarr wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

MissMaster wrote...

Can't really show any role playing with out spoilers.

I believe you can. There can be explicit demonstration of inventory, skill trees, looting, user interface for statistical analysis of items and weapons....there is a vast amount that can be shown without spoiling.

Why would they show that at E3? People want confirmation that it's going to be the epic finish they've wanted, that's been shown via gameplay at set pieces. Slowing that down to show inventory to please people who will get what they want later gains them little.

You all complain now, but in six months they could flood the board with the RPG info you want and you all would be buying the game. So they show the action, characters, and stories to hook the majority of gamers, and then release more intimate RPG info late to pick up the spare.

I respect your thoughts, but it would gain a lot...maybe not way of the Call of Duty crowd, but those who aren't preordering until it is confirmed with satisfaction that rpg elements will be robust. People keep saying its a fair shooter/rpg hybrid. The shooting side is thick with conventional, traditional shooting elements, why isn't the rpg side the same, with detailed inventory, loot and skill trees?

Then we can talk real and legitimate rpg/shooter hybrid.

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 07 juin 2011 - 12:01 .

[Schneidend]

Ixalmaris wrote...


Everyone who gives interviews and otherwise has contact with the customer is briefed on what to say and what not. Especially a high ranking person like Norman working on a multi-million dollar project.

Well, obviously, they can't be allowed to say everything about the game, and it only makes sense to remain consistent with the way you talk about a game company-wide. This is common sense, and there's nothing inherently terrible, dirty, or dishonest about it. 

Christina doesn't really do interviews, but she does Twitter stuff she's working on in regards to the game and is allowed to talk about. She did it for ME2. I believe that's how we first heard about the Vanguard Charge before it was in a video, in fact.

[MGIII]

ink07 wrote...

They've spoiled like half the plot in Gameinformer now, Cerberus working with the reapers, what is each supporting character doing and in what capacity, mechs, Krogan princess storyline, Anderson fights with you, etc. I fail to see how a simple good/bad choice could spoil anything any further.

You need a dialogue choice shown to you to feel confident such features will be in ME3? Are you serious?

It's not like the entire trilogy was founded upon such features or anything.

[Rockpopple]

This is gonna be a looooooong year.

[DebatableBubble]

You guys do know that we still have a week, right?

[TopcatPlayer]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

TopcatPlayer wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Have people seen the newer Interview with Casey on Gametrialers? While still likely not enough RPG for you, it is pretty cool.

Keep it on continual play to see part 2.

oh.... no. The guy descibes RPing as basically same powers just more variety. No word on actual RPing elements like hacking and looting. I literally face palmed. I was hoping they'd have something to rival the stat system in ME1, i want more variety than even that had to offer (which was a lot).

Do you see what I'm talking about? Once we get our streamlined powers to the maximum level, we can choose to evolve them into one of two options, ust like ME2.

This video cannot even begin to express the excitement I'm holding within right now.

-Polite

Thanks Polite for using my entire quote. Very easy for others to tear down my comment when taking one sentence out of context. BTW for those neanderthals out there, when i say hacking i mean with computers, not swords.

[JeffZero]

Rockpopple wrote...

This is gonna be a looooooong year.

Oh my god, your avatar is effing terrific. That's my favorite show.

[candidate88766]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

What annoys me most about this thread is that many people aren't even willing to wait until the end of E3. The conferences give games a few minutes to make an impact and wow the crowd - of course they'll be showing off action. Over the rest of E3 Bioware gets to show extended demos to the media and people at E3, which is the perfect place for them to show off their RPG features. At least give them a chance before ranting.

Also, has anyone considered that the lack of dialogue choices is almost certainly down to a. the voice recording not being finished or b. Bioware not wanting to spoil us. It doesn't show that Bioware has taken away our conversation choices.

I wish people would stop reiterating this "all or nothing" argument.

It IS possible to show SOME RPG pieces without spoiling the entire game. Even if you don't want to show dialog branching leading to genuinely differentiated outcomes, you could still, for example, demonstrate expanded skill trees as just one example.

I'm not saying that Bioware won't release more RPG details in the days and months ahead. I AM saying that I'm getting more than a little antsy to start seeing some focus in this area.

I get it. Bioware's proud of their enhanced new shooter gameplay combat. Wonderful.

Now how about getting back to your bread-and-butter a little bit?

I'm just saying that some people haven't even given a chance for E3 to end before having a go at Bioware. Showing off the RPG features makes much more sense in a prolonged demo so they can really show off the depth of the features. If they'd shown a brief glimpse of the skill trees in the demos today there'd still be people complaining it wasn't enough.

Also, you say you're getting antsy but so far there has only been a magainze round of info and these E3 demos. The magazine articles were all about the story and the RPG features, so it makes sense that Bioware would use the first gameplay demo to show off the combat.

[BeefoTheBold]

VoidCabbage wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

VoidCabbage wrote...

That is obviously subjective but whatever. (the story = weak)

Something to note about Mass Effect 2 is, it is a very different type of story then Mass Effect 1.

In the original it was our first adventure into a new world and it had lots of set up for the setting. It set up the galaxy as it is now... the history aswell as the big evil enemies and what they are doing. And alot more.

Mass effect 2 on the other hand. Took place in an established world. Sure they can show us new bits (and they did... Omega for example) But the core of the story is the characters. It was very much a character piece.

That is not to say that the original did not have strong characters. Just rather that the focus was more on the galaxy and setting.

Anyway what story was better is subjective. I've always been a character guy and I prefer 2. Obviously you prefer 1. But don't say that 2 was weak like its an objective fact. It is not (a fact).

Actually, from a literary standpoint, not advancing the plot at all is synonymous with weak storytelling. It's just not always obvious in ME2 because it has such a great story that it inherited from ME1.

Take as an example the Harry Potter books. (Nowhere close to my favorite, but wanted to pick material that I'm reasonably sure that EVERYONE is familiar with.)

If all there was to the books was Harry's interaction with his classmates, and there was no magic involved, no Voldemort, no gradual build up to a final battle, no thwarting the bad guy, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have had 8 different books.

A certain amount of character development is essential to make people care about what's happening, but if that is all that happens eventually people lose interest.

Certainly it is debateable on where that line is between the need to advance the plot and the need to develop the characters, but sooner or later if you DON'T advance the plot then the story falls apart. I think if ME1's plot wasn't so rock solid and if the setting hadn't been setup so well in ME1, the shortcomings in the storyline pacing in ME2 would have become much more apparent.

Probably 90% of ME2 was side-missions either recruiting characters or tending to their various problems across the galaxy.

Not saying this isn't important and a part of what made the game fun to play, but ME2 did not advance the plot from ME1 in any really meaningful way when you get right down to it. If the game hadn't happened and we went straight from ME1 to ME3, it wouldn't feel like we skipped over anything plotwise.

Well I mean, certainly we would need Arrival so as to set up the whole court thing... but thats besides the point.

I can see your point. You could probably tell the story without ME2. But I don't think of that as an issue. Looking at it from a tv show perspective (using firefly as an example.) Mass Effect 1 is like the first episode of firefly... sets everything up, keeps the story moving... just pure awesomeness.. Where Mass Effect 2 is more like the episode Jaynestown. Sure for the overarching story of the season it may not be essential.. but its certainly entertaining (and whats the point of video games if not entertainment.)

That's why I was saying that from a story perspective, ME2's was weaker than ME1. It benefited from ME1 setting the stage but didn't really tell any story of it's own or advance ME1's at all.

And that's fine from a certain point of view. You're quite right that it was an entertaining game in it's own right, but it left a pretty heavy burden on ME3 to wrap a lot of things up as the final game in the series.

Not saying it can't get there, but it needs to be a major issue of focus for ME3 (I would argue even moreso than the combat) because this is it. This is the final game in the trilogy so anything storyline related that DOESN'T get wrapped will pretty much be forever dropped.

I'd have personally preferred a bit more plot advancement in ME2 just for pacing purposes just so they didn't leave quite so big of a burden on ME3 to tie everything up in a nice little bow. I want a good sense of closure on all the open items, but not just a rushed "And everyone lived happily ever after" style conclusion if you catch my drift.

[solmyr-fr]

I enjoyed the demo and the trailers, the game looks really great and I'm eager to discover what will happen next (or what I will decide) in that final step of the ME story.

If the purpose of this is to show new features or changes in them, why not talking about RPG ? They talked  about console-feature (with the kinect voice control), they talked about the finishing move (the fact that melee will play a bigger role), they talked about vehicles controls ...

What's the point to show 20 times (I exaggerate, sorry ^^) the finishing moves with the omni tools blades and not a new RPG feature ?

Ok it's best to show things that looks great on both "visual" and "gameplay". But don't care if they confirm or explained the RPG features in a video, demo or just in some sentences in a website. When you do a 3 minutes demo, you'll have to impress people but why not giving us answers here about the RPG features if they consider that they are less important to show?

Modifié par solmyr-fr, 07 juin 2011 - 12:01 .

[Rockpopple]

JeffZero wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

This is gonna be a looooooong year.

Oh my god, your avatar is effing terrific. That's my favorite show.

Heheh. I agree, DS9 is the best Star Trek.

But that's neither here nor there. 

[x-Legion-x]

RPG elements -

EXP per kill

Alot Of Loot

Big skill trees

High Level Caps

I see none of these in the demo

why does everyone want to make shooter games, I still think
ME1 will always have the best RPG elements

[BeefoTheBold]

candidate88766 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

What annoys me most about this thread is that many people aren't even willing to wait until the end of E3. The conferences give games a few minutes to make an impact and wow the crowd - of course they'll be showing off action. Over the rest of E3 Bioware gets to show extended demos to the media and people at E3, which is the perfect place for them to show off their RPG features. At least give them a chance before ranting.

Also, has anyone considered that the lack of dialogue choices is almost certainly down to a. the voice recording not being finished or b. Bioware not wanting to spoil us. It doesn't show that Bioware has taken away our conversation choices.

I wish people would stop reiterating this "all or nothing" argument.

It IS possible to show SOME RPG pieces without spoiling the entire game. Even if you don't want to show dialog branching leading to genuinely differentiated outcomes, you could still, for example, demonstrate expanded skill trees as just one example.

I'm not saying that Bioware won't release more RPG details in the days and months ahead. I AM saying that I'm getting more than a little antsy to start seeing some focus in this area.

I get it. Bioware's proud of their enhanced new shooter gameplay combat. Wonderful.

Now how about getting back to your bread-and-butter a little bit?

I'm just saying that some people haven't even given a chance for E3 to end before having a go at Bioware. Showing off the RPG features makes much more sense in a prolonged demo so they can really show off the depth of the features. If they'd shown a brief glimpse of the skill trees in the demos today there'd still be people complaining it wasn't enough.

Also, you say you're getting antsy but so far there has only been a magainze round of info and these E3 demos. The magazine articles were all about the story and the RPG features, so it makes sense that Bioware would use the first gameplay demo to show off the combat.

Can you point me in the direction of these magazine articles? I'd love to read them.

[Nohvarr]

ink07 wrote...

That video shows nothing RPG related, not even a word. I've been watching all this stuff live and never has there been a mention of RPG stuff in any of them. Not once.

Then you weren't paying attention

"The second big area that we're focusing on is a deeper RPG experience. So really getting into a deep experience with big choices about how you want to play. You can throw your weapon down on a bench and upgrade it, plugging in different parts. You're buying and selling a lot more stuff. You're customizing your armor a lot more."

[candidate88766]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

What annoys me most about this thread is that many people aren't even willing to wait until the end of E3. The conferences give games a few minutes to make an impact and wow the crowd - of course they'll be showing off action. Over the rest of E3 Bioware gets to show extended demos to the media and people at E3, which is the perfect place for them to show off their RPG features. At least give them a chance before ranting.

Also, has anyone considered that the lack of dialogue choices is almost certainly down to a. the voice recording not being finished or b. Bioware not wanting to spoil us. It doesn't show that Bioware has taken away our conversation choices.

I wish people would stop reiterating this "all or nothing" argument.

It IS possible to show SOME RPG pieces without spoiling the entire game. Even if you don't want to show dialog branching leading to genuinely differentiated outcomes, you could still, for example, demonstrate expanded skill trees as just one example.

I'm not saying that Bioware won't release more RPG details in the days and months ahead. I AM saying that I'm getting more than a little antsy to start seeing some focus in this area.

I get it. Bioware's proud of their enhanced new shooter gameplay combat. Wonderful.

Now how about getting back to your bread-and-butter a little bit?

I'm just saying that some people haven't even given a chance for E3 to end before having a go at Bioware. Showing off the RPG features makes much more sense in a prolonged demo so they can really show off the depth of the features. If they'd shown a brief glimpse of the skill trees in the demos today there'd still be people complaining it wasn't enough.

Also, you say you're getting antsy but so far there has only been a magainze round of info and these E3 demos. The magazine articles were all about the story and the RPG features, so it makes sense that Bioware would use the first gameplay demo to show off the combat.

Can you point me in the direction of these magazine articles? I'd love to read them.

You know, the GameInformer, PC Gamer, PS3 magazine, OXM. While light on details, all they talked about were minor story points and how Biowares focus was to improve te RPG elemtents and the combat elements.

[alx119]

Ixalmaris wrote...

alx119 wrote...

It's just an E3 presentation... they can't show you the whole game with just a couple of demos man. RPG takes time in a game, and time is precisely what you must economize in a press conference as big as this one.

We have 10 minutes of gameplay + several trailers and short demos.
And not one RPG element.

Compare that to the Witchers E3 video in 2010
http://www.gamestar....d=1589&pk=14171

10 minutes of gameplay? I've only seen like 5 MAX on each presentation, so I dunno about you but that is still not enough time to show enough RPG elements than some dialogues.
Witchers =/= Mass Effect

[Nohvarr]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I respect your thoughts, but it would gain a lot...maybe not way of the Call of Duty crowd, but those who aren't preordering until it is confirmed with satisfaction that rpg elements will be robust. People keep saying its a fair shooter/rpg hybrid. The shooting side is thick with conventional, traditional shooting elements, why isn't the rpg side the same, with detailed inventory, loot and skill trees?

Then we can talk real and legitimate rpg/shooter hybrid.

If you preorder the game six months from now, they still get your money. They can afford to wait on the RPG stuff, especially if they're fine tunning it to make sure that both aspects of the game are the best they can be for what they are trying to create.

[Schneidend]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Can you point me in the direction of these magazine articles? I'd love to read them.

There should be scans of the GameInformer article floating around the internets. Bing or Google them and behold talk of multi-evolutions for powers and other such things.

[Ricinator]

Occulo wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

considering they are making the final game a starting point for new people?? ****** off Bioware

What, so not wanting people who picked up your game and are new to the series get a bit acquainted with everything is a bad thing? I understand if the game starts out with a long wall of scrolling text, but so far there's no sign of that.

think about it for 10 sec... i'm not saying they shouldn't have a little comic like they did in me2 for ps3 but they want to do even more?? The new people only have to go back and play the other 2 to catch up. why make a game for such fickle people that only want to see the final game? Would you only watch the Return of the Jedi, or last Lord of the Rings? didn't think so

[ink07]

MGIII wrote...

You need a dialogue choice shown to you to feel confident such features will be in ME3? Are you serious?

It's not like the entire trilogy was founded upon such features or anything.

Mmm, no. I was answering to some other post which stated that they didn't show a dialogue choice because they didn't want to spoil anything. I was just trying to make it obvious that they have spoiled enough already, so one of those Red/blue dialogue thingies wouldn't spoil anything at all.

Try to keep up next time you try to sound smart tho. <_<

Modifié par ink07, 07 juin 2011 - 12:06 .

[BeefoTheBold]

candidate88766 wrote...

You know, the GameInformer, PC Gamer, PS3 magazine, OXM. While light on details, all they talked about were minor story points and how Biowares focus was to improve te RPG elemtents and the combat elements.

Ah. Okay. My concern is that I'd like to see some details on this. I've seen plenty of details on how they've improved the combat elements, but almost nothing at all on what they mean by improving the RPG elements.

Oh well. Plenty of time between now and next March. I'll keep watching.

[TopcatPlayer]

solmyr-fr wrote...

jakal66 wrote...

We need to see some footage of these so called enhance RPG elements we've heard so much about...period.That will end this debate and start another one.

Absolutely. Only a few words and answers to several features that were delayed (or drasticallychanged) in ME2 would be enough to make people (including me) stop worrying about the RPG side of the game (other than choice / story telling that are indeed awesome in all ME games but not enough to make the game an RPG)

- inventory ( where did my inventory go ^^ ? Christina Norman did a good przzi a long time ago about that but we have no true answer about the return of a true inventory ... if they are so much weapons customisations there must be one ... but if we can only get a limited number of weapons... it's possible that there will be no inventory :/ )

- XP for EACH enemy killed as in ME1 (or sub quest done/progress) and not at the end each mission as in ME2 (I really dislike the mission system on ME2... it breaks the game continuity). I assume every RPG fan enjoy earning XP ... I prefer to gain 100 * (100~200) XP for each enemy i kill every 20 seconds than one time 10000 XP at the end of the mission every two hours.

- lockpicking (hum sorry ... decryption ^^)

- enhanced skill trees (I think we can be relieved here assuming what they annonced about "multiple powers choices" is true)

- influence of RPG statistics (precision, damage...) on the shooter side of the game (Christina Norman said it will be more visible than in ME2 I think)

...

A simple "yes this feature will be in ME3"  (or no :'()  will easily relieved RPG fans ... I really do not know why they keep showing only the action-side of the game :'(

and with that i leave this forum. This says everything i am concerned about and needs no further discussion from me. Shooter fans put on your party hats and celebrate. I'm out.