556 réponses à ce sujet

[solmyr-fr]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

You guys don't understand the concept of Non-Disclosure Agreements, do you? If they don't mention something, then it's more likely they CAN'T mention it, rather than it not existing.

That's not the only reason that could explain the silence on the "enhanced RPG features" :
- they prefer only to show what can attract new players (so some old school RPG features are not welcome to be described in a short presentation)
- they don't care anymore about RPG features
- they can't because they plan to tell us soon
- they can't because there is still 9 month until the release so it's possible they didn't implemanted some of these RPG features because they have concentrated their work in the "action" gameplay
...

[Occulo]

daqs wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

2. Skill trees - This annoyed me a lot in ME2. I understand that Bioware wants to appeal to a different breed of gamer. That's freaking painfully obvious these days. But if Bioware is promising improved RPG elements, then I expect skill trees to be more robust and more useful in ME3.

Query: how was this missing from ME2?  Your CQC Infiltrator, your pure damage-dealer Infiltrator, and your battlefield-control Infiltrator are radically different builds that play very differently.  A Revenant Soldier and a Widow(/Mattock) Soldier aren't carbon copies of each other, either - the difference between pushing, in-your-face aggressive action and the ability to hang back and slaughter everything methodically.  The Sentinel could mix things up at close range out in the open or, with an alternate build, focus on casting.  I mean, these are all pretty meaningful choices and they dramatically impact gameplay.

Personally for me, the customisation ended too soon and felt too short.

Plus the lack of a persuasion skill not limited to just renegades or paragons like in ME1 (charm or intimidate bars, pah) really, really bothered me. On the subject of roleplaying, I hope that in ME3 players will be able to play as Shepards that aren't black-and-white paragons or renegades. You know, why not play a renegade with a softer side? Or a paragon who's only nice when people cooperate with him/her and utterly destroys everyone else who doesn't and is thus revealed to be a scheming manipulator that rivals even the Illusive Man? Why do I have to compare Mordin to Hitler just to get Miranda and Jack to stop fighting? What does that have to do with making me more charismatic?

[BeefoTheBold]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BeefoTheBold, I'm almost entirely in agreement with your wishlist. I think we'll be safe with #1 - they've talked a lot about choice and described their matrices.

I think they might be struggling a bit with #2 (just a feeling). With deeper skill trees, balancing becomes far more difficult. It might be why we haven't seen much of the skill trees yet.

With #3, I loved the locker system but the choice was pretty anemic. The DLC helped but it was still only passable. However, Bioware flat out said that there would be more customization and that you could add different parts to your guns so we'll have to see. I'm 100% confident that we'll get better than ME2 but whether that means its marginally better or far better is yet to be seen. I share a bit of your skepticism here.

#4 absolutely. Shops were almost pointless in ME2. I'm not sure the typical D&D model of looting credits and buying your own gear at the store fits in ME but perhaps they could figure out something like fits better with this scenario.

#4b again, I agree. This comes to more customization and its always an entertaining mini-game for me. However, I don't hold out a ton of hope for a very vibrant economy.

#5 I'm torn on this one. I'm not sure I like skill points for weapons. I rather liked being able to use all the weapons I carried. However, I doubt we'll see this either - it would be a pretty dramatic departure from ME2 mechanics and Bioware has said that they weren't going to do that.

See, most of us really don't seriously disagree in principle, although specific ideas may differ. I do appreciate that certain of these changes may be more critical to your enjoyment than mine (or vice versa), but that we all agree is why I'm confident Bioware will try to implement what they can.

Again, I just pray they nail the story!

More to come on this I guess.

I gotta run folks. Wife's home. Nice talking with everyone.

daqs - I realize I haven't addressed your question. Given that we've got some time between now and release date and I'm out of time tonight, let me give you a raincheck and we can get into that discussion another time.

[hex23]

A lot of people don't seem to realize that E3 and the events/interviews leading up to it are a spectacle, first and foremost. There is 100+ games on display, all vying for the consumer's attention.

Listen, I'm a die hard RPG fan. However, that sh*t has no place in a trailer promoting the game at E3. They needed a "sizzle reel", so they made one. I know a handful of you wanted a 3-5 minute demo showing dialogue or RPG customization....no. Just no. That's not the type of stuff you bring out at this type of event, to showcase your game.

You can disagree, or get mad, but it is what it is. "ME3" would sell 5 copies if they listened to some of you people....and I don't know about you, but I'd rather they continue making games.

[KotorEffect3]

What a suprise some of these whiners are never happy, the game looks awesome.

[Sidney]

Occulo wrote...

Plus the lack of a persuasion skill not limited to just renegades or paragons like in ME1 (charm or intimidate bars, pah) really, really bothered me. On the subject of roleplaying, I hope that in ME3 players will be able to play as Shepards that aren't black-and-white paragons or renegades.

This is classic role playing vs roll playing. The charm/intimidate bars are just a lazy way to roll your character and not have to role play them. I can be a super-jerk but as long as I pump points into Charm I can use that anytime. What kind of role playing is that?

You do not have to play all or nothing. There is one option you don't get if you aren't min/maxing and so what? The problem here is that people grouse about this but it is a wonderful element - there is a consequence to your actions. It is like people want to be able to play anyway they want but they should always get the best possible outcome. I snuffed the Rachni Queen in ME1...I'd love to see my PC pay for that decision in ME3. I don't want some lame way that having the Rachni is equally good and bad.

[IRMcGhee]

The demo reel shows footage from the first part of the game I believe. Seems probable that you get dropped right into the action once the game proper starts and don't have much in the way of RP/customising and such until you are back on the Normandy. Much like the first two games in the series really.

[addiction21]

hex23 wrote...

A lot of people don't seem to realize that E3 and the events/interviews leading up to it are a spectacle, first and foremost. There is 100+ games on display, all vying for the consumer's attention.

Listen, I'm a die hard RPG fan. However, that sh*t has no place in a trailer promoting the game at E3. They needed a "sizzle reel", so they made one. I know a handful of you wanted a 3-5 minute demo showing dialogue or RPG customization....no. Just no. That's not the type of stuff you bring out at this type of event, to showcase your game.

You can disagree, or get mad, but it is what it is. "ME3" would sell 5 copies if they listened to some of you people....and I don't know about you, but I'd rather they continue making games.

Get the common sense out of the way know because these same people will **** and moan untill they get it... and then **** about how it is all wrong and "this is how it should of been done"

Do what I do. Sit back and watch the chicken littles run around.

Want some of my popcorn?

[Occulo]

Sidney wrote...

You do not have to play all or nothing. There is one option you don't get if you aren't min/maxing and so what? The problem here is that people grouse about this but it is a wonderful element - there is a consequence to your actions. It is like people want to be able to play anyway they want but they should always get the best possible outcome. I snuffed the Rachni Queen in ME1...I'd love to see my PC pay for that decision in ME3. I don't want some lame way that having the Rachni is equally good and bad.

What does telling Mordin he's Hitler have to do with me suddenly being more persuasive to Miranda and Jack?

[Sidney]

Just as an aside:

ME1 trailer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqBpRJ7qgaM
DAO trailer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0hIr6ccUXo&feature=relmfu
TW2 Trailer:

Exciting music, macho guys saying "bad****" things, lots of combat, some sex and not a single shot of dialog menus, inventory screens or skill trees to be seen.

[Jarrett Lee]

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

[Sidney]

Occulo wrote...

What does telling Mordin he's Hitler have to do with me suddenly being more persuasive to Miranda and Jack?

What does shooting a robot have to do with it which is mostly what you did to dump a point inot that skill?

At least the ME2 mechanisim evolves based on how you play your role not just based on the irrelevant dumping of points.

[Occulo]

Sidney wrote...

At least the ME2 mechanisim evolves based on how you play your role not just based on the irrelevant dumping of points.

I would argue that telling Mordin he's Hitler just to get enough Paragon points to stop Miranda and Jack from catfighting without them hating me is also points dumping.

Maybe a persuasion skill isn't the best of ideas. But I'd rather that than telling salarians they've committed genocide so that later on two biotics who are completely unrelated to the previous will stop fighting and still like me.

[Ricinator]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

thats not good enough... i demand you atleast tell us your going back to more traditional (ME1) RPG

[Aimi]

Ricinator wrote...


thats not good enough... i demand you atleast tell us your going back to more traditional (ME1) RPG

"You don't get to make demands of BioWare, Ambassador."

[KotorEffect3]

Ricinator wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

thats not good enough... i demand you atleast tell us your going back to more traditional (ME1) RPG

lol you demand? 

[Ricinator]

daqs wrote...

Ricinator wrote...


thats not good enough... i demand you atleast tell us your going back to more traditional (ME1) RPG

"You don't get to make demands of BioWare, Ambassador."

touche

[FieryDove]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

Can we find out about the DRM earlier than say a couple of weeks before game release?

[Sidney]

Occulo wrote...
I would argue that telling Mordin he's Hitler just to get enough Paragon points to stop Miranda and Jack from catfighting without them hating me is also points dumping.

Again, if you are role playing you aren't trying to dump points. I played a "natural" game twice in ME2 and once I got enough points to stop them and once I didn't. I think the ability to fail in the game is a huge missing element in games overall so any glimmer of that makes me feel good.

I've said this before, look at it as credibility.  If a Ghandi threatens you so you buy the threat? No, why not? He's a good guy. What if the local drug cartel thugs does? Yeah, I'm think he's got credibility based on his history.

It is an imperfect rationalization but frankly all skills and leveling in RPG's take a major suspension of disbelief  - most skills are earned by killing random bad guys in the end  - unless you have a "use it to build it" type of leveling. The P/R in ME2 at least ventures towards the use it type of levelling.

[JayhartRIC]

Occulo wrote...

daqs wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

2. Skill trees - This annoyed me a lot in ME2. I understand that Bioware wants to appeal to a different breed of gamer. That's freaking painfully obvious these days. But if Bioware is promising improved RPG elements, then I expect skill trees to be more robust and more useful in ME3.

Query: how was this missing from ME2?  Your CQC Infiltrator, your pure damage-dealer Infiltrator, and your battlefield-control Infiltrator are radically different builds that play very differently.  A Revenant Soldier and a Widow(/Mattock) Soldier aren't carbon copies of each other, either - the difference between pushing, in-your-face aggressive action and the ability to hang back and slaughter everything methodically.  The Sentinel could mix things up at close range out in the open or, with an alternate build, focus on casting.  I mean, these are all pretty meaningful choices and they dramatically impact gameplay.

Personally for me, the customisation ended too soon and felt too short.

Plus the lack of a persuasion skill not limited to just renegades or paragons like in ME1 (charm or intimidate bars, pah) really, really bothered me. On the subject of roleplaying, I hope that in ME3 players will be able to play as Shepards that aren't black-and-white paragons or renegades. You know, why not play a renegade with a softer side? Or a paragon who's only nice when people cooperate with him/her and utterly destroys everyone else who doesn't and is thus revealed to be a scheming manipulator that rivals even the Illusive Man? Why do I have to compare Mordin to Hitler just to get Miranda and Jack to stop fighting? What does that have to do with making me more charismatic?

You can play a middle of the road Shep in ME2.  I've done it multiple times.  Play your Shepard the way you want to play them and stop worrying about 2 standoffs at the end of the game.  I enjoyed my playthroughs much more when I say what I wanted instead of worrying about my alignment.  

[Torhagen]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

Exactly this is whats wrong you want to keep the Core Fans its easy they come first 
Specially after ME2 and DA2

Modifié par Torhagen, 07 juin 2011 - 01:36 .

[addiction21]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

Bad choice of words there.

It will now be turned around as people state they are your core group of fans and you must do what they want you to do, how they want you to do them, and in their timeframe.

[Whatever42]

JayhartRIC wrote...

You can play a middle of the road Shep in ME2.  I've done it multiple times.  Play your Shepard the way you want to play them and stop worrying about 2 standoffs at the end of the game.  I enjoyed my playthroughs much more when I say what I wanted instead of worrying about my alignment.  

Not to mention, some of the neutral response are much more rewarding that the paragon/renegade responses. Sure you can charm/threaten a suspect into talking but you get the true renegade Shepard by not selecting the magic red text and beating him unconcious.

[DTKT]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

We're just winding up the marketing machine into gear - E3 being the first big coming out for the larger community. Plenty of months to go and we intend to do deeper dives into the kinds of info and content you guys (the core fans) want to hear more about.

Cheers Jarett! Thanks for the clarification.

[Murmillos]

addiction21 wrote...

Bad choice of words there.

It will now be turned around as people state they are your core group of fans and you must do what they want you to do, how they want you to do them, and in their timeframe.

Really? Just because we been wanting to ask something as simple has "throw us a RPG bone" this time around some how now means he needs to be our servant?