556 réponses à ce sujet

[BeefoTheBold]

Not the best way to phrase the original post in this thread, but it echoes my concerns as well.

I'm still waiting for any hints that feedback from a significant section of the community that Bioware games are running away from their RPG elements further and further has been heard.

With all due respect, Bioware doesn't have enough credibility with me anymore than you can just get up and say, "And to our core fans, your decisions will have impact" and have that be the end of it followed by a long combat demo and trailer.

[Aimi]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

PoliteAssassin,
You've let me down, I thought you were one of the reasonable folk. Your post is so full of hyperbole.

Sorry to hear that old friend. But I've got no more hope in Bioware anymore. Its all run out. I would love for the developers to prove me wrong over the coming months, but unfortunately from what I see thats not likely to happen.

-Polite

The melodrama is so thick, you could cut it with a knife.  Chill out, dude.

[Ixalmaris]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

[Juztinb42]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Juztinb42 wrote...
So what excuse do you have for not showing any role-playing features?  E3 is the time to show your game as you want people to think of it, so it's pretty clear that you want people to think of it as an action game, not an RPG.

Because that's what the majority of people wants to see when they're at E3, perhaps?

And by the way, ME3 is an action-RPG. BOTH.

Action-RPG has yet to be seen.  If ME2 is any indication, MW3 is going to have more character customization.

[Crackseed]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Shooter. Not action game. Whenever you hear the word "action", its code word for shooter.

Saren, you're just adding almost nothing to this convo - at least Polite is generating some good discussion even if we disagree with him. All you're doing is regurgitating "It's a shooter - that means it's dumb and not an RPG" w/o adding any reasoning to it.

Please, make more of an argument - why is this only a shooter to you now? Are there many shooters you play that let you customize and control your choice? If so, I would like to know so I can try them too and be awoken to this revelation that ME is not an RPG anymore.

Modifié par crackseed, 06 juin 2011 - 10:02 .

[sympathy4saren]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

crackseed wrote...
Edit: Chris said it before me! Honestly guys, come on - break down into major RPG elements for an unveiling vid in a limited timeslot with tons of other things going on? The fanbase for this game is becoming so damn spoiled and unreasonable it's sickening.

So compalining that the developers have forsaken their core fanbase for the shooter fans is being negative just to be negative? You have a lot to learn apparently. I don't know which side of the line you stand on, but for people who have supported them when they weren't making ME or DA, its not spoiling when developer completely turns their back on the principles of what made them great and satisfied the consumers back in the day. Bioware's become just like all the other companies out there. Their name used to mean something back then, it used to be unique. Now, they're just another action/shooter developer trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. I don't know when, but somewhere along the way they completely lost their values, and the timeline correlates to when they were acquired by EA.

But apparently speaking negatively about where the games going genre wise is being negative just for the sake of being negative. I must have forgotten that every game Bioware makes is perfect. :innocent:

-Polite

Right on, my friend. I couldn't have said it any better.

[iNixiRir]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

PoliteAssassin,
You've let me down, I thought you were one of the reasonable folk. Your post is so full of hyperbole.

Sorry to hear that old friend. But I've got no more hope in Bioware anymore. Its all run out. I would love for the developers to prove me wrong over the coming months, but unfortunately from what I see thats not likely to happen.

-Polite

You lost all hope because of a couple short vids shown today?

You...

what the...

...seriously?

Modifié par iNixiRir, 06 juin 2011 - 10:03 .

[FreezaSama]

iNixiRir wrote...

You...

what the...

...seriously?

That's pretty much been my reaction to a lot of people on these forums since just before DAII hit. So infuriating.

[Juztinb42]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

PoliteAssassin,
You've let me down, I thought you were one of the reasonable folk. Your post is so full of hyperbole.

Sorry to hear that old friend. But I've got no more hope in Bioware anymore. Its all run out. I would love for the developers to prove me wrong over the coming months, but unfortunately from what I see thats not likely to happen.

-Polite

I feel just the same as you do, I agree with all your posts here.

[Murmillos]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Such drama. ME3 will be ME2 with some RPG elements added back in. They've even mentioned much of what will be added back in. None of it is very showy, though. They have a few minutes on stage and they're not going to spend it trying to get people hyped about stats on weapons or more customizable armor.

Of course, I suspect many will not be satisfied with the RPG elements they've added back. As Polite has demonstrated, this is rage about the whole direction of the industry and nothing less than a morphing ME3 into DA:O will satisfy them.

Are you kidding me.. hell the Ghost Recon presentation showed more inventory RPG mechanics then ME ever has. Fully customization weapons... ME refuses to touch something like that with even a 20 foot pole - because a 10 foot pole doesn't even cut the distance needing to keep away from such stuff. (ME3 says they would have something like that.. and it took only a minute too show it... so no.. ME3 is all about interactive storytelling action.. "RPG" is dead).

[BeefoTheBold]

sympathy4saren wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

crackseed wrote...
Edit: Chris said it before me! Honestly guys, come on - break down into major RPG elements for an unveiling vid in a limited timeslot with tons of other things going on? The fanbase for this game is becoming so damn spoiled and unreasonable it's sickening.

So compalining that the developers have forsaken their core fanbase for the shooter fans is being negative just to be negative? You have a lot to learn apparently. I don't know which side of the line you stand on, but for people who have supported them when they weren't making ME or DA, its not spoiling when developer completely turns their back on the principles of what made them great and satisfied the consumers back in the day. Bioware's become just like all the other companies out there. Their name used to mean something back then, it used to be unique. Now, they're just another action/shooter developer trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. I don't know when, but somewhere along the way they completely lost their values, and the timeline correlates to when they were acquired by EA.

But apparently speaking negatively about where the games going genre wise is being negative just for the sake of being negative. I must have forgotten that every game Bioware makes is perfect. :innocent:

-Polite

Right on, my friend. I couldn't have said it any better.

I would add that there ARE ways to show RPG elements without including spoilers. How about a glimpse at the new skill trees so I can see for myself that they aren't horribly stripped down like ME2? Maybe you could show the equipment screen so I can see for myself that I have an expanded amount of armor or weapons to choose from with STATS shown so I can experiment with different character builds?

How about showing one example of something that carries over from the previous games differently based on the decisions you made?

I mean, it doesn't have to be a BIG example, but just the same scene two different times that shows that there is a difference based on something you did before.


You can do these things without major spoilers ruining the game.

[Thandran]

Hey guys, so what's u-

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

The negativity! THE NEGATIVITY! IT BURNS, IT BURNS!

Seriously though, chill.

If you were disappointed with DA2 and lost all hope in Bioware then don't buy this game until you read the reviews.

[Schneidend]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

All these videos floating around are very recent. Casey said, and the other devs like Christina Norman have been saying since before we even saw the first cinematic trailer, that the RPG elements are being reinvigorated.

[Crackseed]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

I'll definitely nod with this a bit - where all the worrying and naysaying will get solid traction is when there's more time to show off and all we keep getting is action/talk sequences. If Bioware DOES want to sell this to everyone, especially after said promises, some of these later ME3 segments at E3 NEED to show off the promised additions.

I cannot disagree with that  I'm simply saying people need to be patient and stop jumping the shark so much and wailing that Bioware has sold out.

[Piecake]

Juztinb42 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm sorry, you are asking "where is the roleplaying" in the (roughly) 3 minutes of in-game video you have seen so far?

Seriously?

So what excuse do you have for not showing any role-playing features?  E3 is the time to show your game as you want people to think of it, so it's pretty clear that you want people to think of it as an action game, not an RPG.

Yea, a trailer showing someone fiddling through menus allocating stats and choosing abilities sure makes for fun trailer viewing...

[Mecha Tengu]

sigh

Bioware wants the call of duty audience

they will get it soon T_T

Modifié par Mecha Tengu, 06 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[Solid N7]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

PoliteAssassin,
You've let me down, I thought you were one of the reasonable folk. Your post is so full of hyperbole.

Sorry to hear that old friend. But I've got no more hope in Bioware anymore. Its all run out. I would love for the developers to prove me wrong over the coming months, but unfortunately from what I see thats not likely to happen.

-Polite

[BeefoTheBold]

Thandran wrote...

Hey guys, so what's u-

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

The negativity! THE NEGATIVITY! IT BURNS, IT BURNS!

Seriously though, chill.

If you were disappointed with DA2 and lost all hope in Bioware then don't buy this game until you read the reviews.

Alternatively, we could use the forums for their intended purpose: to give feedback and customer concerns to the developers in the hopes of getting games more to our liking in the future.

[Juztinb42]

iNixiRir wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

PoliteAssassin,
You've let me down, I thought you were one of the reasonable folk. Your post is so full of hyperbole.

Sorry to hear that old friend. But I've got no more hope in Bioware anymore. Its all run out. I would love for the developers to prove me wrong over the coming months, but unfortunately from what I see thats not likely to happen.

-Polite

You lost all hope because of a couple short vids shown today?

You...

what the...

...seriously?

It's not just that, it's the culmination of everything that has been building up over the past few years.  ME1 was a GREAT mix of an action game and an RPG.  ME2 took away nearly every role-playing feature and left us with a pretty poor action game.  In addition, DA:O was the last stand for the traditional RPG and in BioWare's infinite wisdom, they completely threw out everything with DA2.  DA2 is everything that is wrong with BioWare today.  Or should I say EA?  I always mix the two up now.

[Whatever42]

Murmillos wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Such drama. ME3 will be ME2 with some RPG elements added back in. They've even mentioned much of what will be added back in. None of it is very showy, though. They have a few minutes on stage and they're not going to spend it trying to get people hyped about stats on weapons or more customizable armor.

Of course, I suspect many will not be satisfied with the RPG elements they've added back. As Polite has demonstrated, this is rage about the whole direction of the industry and nothing less than a morphing ME3 into DA:O will satisfy them.

Are you kidding me.. hell the Ghost Recon presentation showed more inventory RPG mechanics then ME ever has. Fully customization weapons... ME refuses to touch something like that with even a 20 foot pole - because a 10 foot pole doesn't even cut the distance needing to keep away from such stuff. (ME3 says they would have something like that.. and it took only a minute too show it... so no.. ME3 is all about interactive storytelling action.. "RPG" is dead).

So because Bioware chose to show a little story and action instead of walking through skill trees it must mean that the skill trees don't exist, right? More hysteria please.

[Crackseed]

Murmillos wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Such drama. ME3 will be ME2 with some RPG elements added back in. They've even mentioned much of what will be added back in. None of it is very showy, though. They have a few minutes on stage and they're not going to spend it trying to get people hyped about stats on weapons or more customizable armor.

Of course, I suspect many will not be satisfied with the RPG elements they've added back. As Polite has demonstrated, this is rage about the whole direction of the industry and nothing less than a morphing ME3 into DA:O will satisfy them.

Are you kidding me.. hell the Ghost Recon presentation showed more inventory RPG mechanics then ME ever has. Fully customization weapons... ME refuses to touch something like that with even a 20 foot pole - because a 10 foot pole doesn't even cut the distance needing to keep away from such stuff. (ME3 says they would have something like that.. and it took only a minute too show it... so no.. ME3 is all about interactive storytelling action.. "RPG" is dead).

Err - the modifying a weapon for a few minutes on screen part is more RPG then ME has ever showcased? Really? >.> 

[Ixalmaris]

Schneidend wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

All these videos floating around are very recent. Casey said, and the other devs like Christina Norman have been saying since before we even saw the first cinematic trailer, that the RPG elements are being reinvigorated.

And you believe them? Devs promise anything the marketing department tells them to. Unless they show those reinvigorated RPG elements its very doubtful they exist and we don't even know what the EA marketing department understands under RPG elements.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 06 juin 2011 - 10:10 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

crackseed wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

crackseed wrote...
Edit: Chris said it before me! Honestly guys, come on - break down into major RPG elements for an unveiling vid in a limited timeslot with tons of other things going on? The fanbase for this game is becoming so damn spoiled and unreasonable it's sickening.

So compalining that the developers have forsaken their core fanbase for the shooter fans is being negative just to be negative? You have a lot to learn apparently. I don't know which side of the line you stand on, but for people who have supported them when they weren't making ME or DA, its not spoiling when developer completely turns their back on the principles of what made them great and satisfied the consumers back in the day. Bioware's become just like all the other companies out there. Their name used to mean something back then, it used to be unique. Now, they're just another action/shooter developer trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. I don't know when, but somewhere along the way they completely lost their values, and the timeline correlates to when they were acquired by EA.

But apparently speaking negatively about where the games going genre wise is being negative just for the sake of being negative. I must have forgotten that every game Bioware makes is perfect. :innocent:

-Polite

I have stated time and time again, posting in many threads with negative opinions, that we obviously NEED people to be exacting at times. I have posted my own misgivings, worries and complaints but the difference between you and me is that you are simply writing it off because on Day 1 of ME3's E3 timeslot, when it had basically 3-5 mins of time, you didn't see what you expected and so now Bioware has failed you and is not worthy of your respect or time.

Day 1 of E3 and you're saying that. You tell me if you're being negative to be negative or if you're being honestly negative with a strong case to back it. If by the end of E3, we have not seen ANY deeper RPG elements and the stuff promised, then you can bet I will be here along with you telling Bioware I AM worried about what they are doing with the game. Until then though, I have the common sense to realize [I mean, come on - how long have you been watching E3s?] that E3 day 1 is always about hype and get people pumped before the follwoing days when the devs can show off more w/o being stuck in a 3 minute window.

That's my point - I'm not here trying to bust your chops just because we have a differeing view - I'm opposing you because I feel that you are frankly being entirely too short sighted for the time being.

Edit: And I'm sorry, but you just trying to use the March release date as ammo to back your claims is very dissappointing. What does the release date of ME3 in March have to do with DA2's release date and issues? I would love to see a real factual answer to this versus it being "I'm jumping on the supposition and hyperbole bandwagon cause I can!" please.

Let me clarify. I was not disappointed because they didn't show RPG elements such as lockers, inventories, skill trees, etc... That stuff doesn't matter to me. I don't know what gameplay vids you watched, but I watched them all. The Salarian homeworld and the Earth videos are sufficient enough to make an initial impression. If you watched both of those videos, you will clearly see that commander shepard has become a predefined character. Yes, the player may get occasional choices, and some dialogue here and there, but as in ME2 shepard automatically talks and takes action while the player just sits back and watches, periodically making an insignificant choice or dialogue selection. This is evident in the gameplay footage that was shown today. I saw this in ME2, and was strongly disappointed. They had taken away control from our character, a character thats supposed to be unique accross the millions of players. How can that be when the game takes control? It becomes like any other shooter with a predefined character.

As for the March release date, that wasn't used to back up anything. I was simply stating that the similarities with that of DA2 are strong. Someone stated that the RPG features will be revealed as the release date gets closer. Another forum member countered by saying that people rationalized that same thought when DA2 was revealed. Look how that turned out.

-Polite

[Darthbill52]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Role playing is dead in Bioware games. They're making action games now. Try to keep up.

This. I watched E3 just for this. 5 hours, and I was not impressed. This is nothing but a GoW wannabe. A sad one at that. If I wanted a michael bay action shooter, I'd play GoW, made by a company who prides themselves on the ability to make those  types of games, not ME, made by a company that wants to be like Epic and forgot who they used to be. You guys at Bioware are seriously trying too hard. And don't say that out of 3 minutes we didn't see anything - there was much more than 3 minutes of footage shown from the earth reveal to the salarian planet, and all of it was shooter. Not just in gameplay, but dialogue wise. We no longer control shepard, he's become an already defined character. ME2 touched upon this with LoTSB and Arrival, but ME3 seems to be taking this to its maximum potential.

How can you deliver on your promise that each player will have a unique experience when 90% of the stuff shepard does/SAYS is automatic? Why have players invest based on this promise since the beginning of the series just to have their character taken over by the game in the second and third installments? You keep saying its a shooter RPG, but it isn't. Some people define roleplaying games by stats and customization, but what really separates roleplaying games is giving the player the ability to ROLE PLAY. And thats exactly what you've taken from us.

This game is pure shooter, with a few decisions sprinkled around here and there. That doesn't classify it as an RPG. Funny thing is that GoW3 was apparently trying to add RPG mechanics into their game, yet Bioware continues to strip them out. They've gotten so full of this "emotionally engaging cinematic experience" that they've taken players out of control of their characters and essentially made it an interactive film.

I was initially going to buy this just for the sake of finishing the trilogy, but why add to the misconception you guys have of this game being so great as it is by adding more money to your wallets?

My biggest problem is that you guys wont even admit it. You keep telling your core fans, the fans who made you who you are today mind you, that you're going to make the RPg features richer. Your one chance to show that you were people of your word after the abomination called DA2 was E3, and you appease the shooter fanboys who love the explosions and cartwheels and the grenades. I'm calling you guys out on your statement that RPG elements would be improved upon.

Personally, as someone who's countlessly defended this company in the beginning, and been with them since their glory days, I find this insulting as a core fan. This is how you treat your original audience? Sidelining us for the big bucks? As long as theres more lettuce in your pockets, I suppose you'll be sleeping like a baby.

-Polite

I dont type much but however I gotta join the wait and see chorus.  The trailer at E3 was part of the EA showcase and designed to hype people up.  I am just as much wanting more rpg roots.    I am usually critical at times to be critical and even i got to side with mr priestly on this one.  You barley saw the first look, believe me with some things set in stone, more news will come.  A great simle to this a teaser for a new car, which is heralded  at a car show.  It's usually  a test model and surrounded by girls in bikinis or a "new comcept" to grant attention and hype. In this case they chose e3 to show us the new melee attack and connect functionality.  I dont personally care but any news is good news.  Thats whats going on at E3 companies teasing us with a new models surrounded by attention getting tactics.  If they showed the "tech" side of things they would be embrassed  and no one would want to listen.  I am all for saying this is a soundbyte to appease the soundbyte society we live in.  These big expos are not  the place to get into the knitty gritty.  It's all about the hype, and hype they have done. 

 Please bioware if you want to avoid fan rage, show us some techinical/rpg stuff later on if you can.  If you do I will lookforward to it.  Either way, I will be along with many of us will be looking forward to more news on the subject,

-DB  

[casedawgz]

We're already having this conversation? Wow, it's going to be a long year.