556 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Schneidend wrote...

No. The focus is exactly the same: they're focusing on what is new and different about the game. The dialogue wheel was a new thing in ME1, and the entire concept of a gritty space marine sci-fi action RPG was pretty unique. They showcased those elements. Now, the new things are big, open mission vistas, combat mobility, and omni-tool murder.

This. Why should the developers show more dialogue, if it's exactly as we've seen in Mass Effect 1 and 2? Hell, I could understand if they added new motion capture, akin to L.A. Noire, but from what I've seen that does not seem to be the case. With gaming sequels, people want to know 1) what's new and 2) what's been improved. 

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 juin 2011 - 10:19 .

[BeefoTheBold]

crackseed wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Thandran wrote...

Hey guys, so what's u-

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

The negativity! THE NEGATIVITY! IT BURNS, IT BURNS!

Seriously though, chill.

If you were disappointed with DA2 and lost all hope in Bioware then don't buy this game until you read the reviews.

Alternatively, we could use the forums for their intended purpose: to give feedback and customer concerns to the developers in the hopes of getting games more to our liking in the future.

Beef, much respect to you for hitting on the point of the forums - however, do you believe that some of the people spitting teeth in this thread are using the forums for this purpose? I'm enjoying debating with Polite, because he puts thought to his posts, even if I feel he's being too early on the whistle blowing - however I see more posts about people just immediately chalking E3 ME3 showings off to a loss and "RPG and Bioware are dead and I'm not touching this game anymore!" w/o letting Bioware have a chance to fully show off all the new toys and mechanics we'll have to play with.

If by end of E3 we are still left with nothing but action trailers and some talking, these forums should be used by sensible individuals like yourself to convey that, but w/o the needless dramamongering and self-entitlement so many seem to bring when they post a negative opinion. Please note - I would argue that there are many on the positive/fanatic defense side who should also be less "RAAAAAAGE" over said opinions too. We're all here as fans of the ME franchise, even if we all have differing views on what we want from the game.

I understand where you're coming from. I can't speak for other people, so I'll only speak for myself.

I have growing concerns that, since the merger, Bioware isn't interested in my type of gamer anymore. It isn't one thing that brings about this concern, it's the general trendline that seems to be that each new release from Bioware seems to have less and less RPG elements in order to appeal to a different target market.

It isn't something unique to the Mass Effect franchise, though I think it is difficult to argue that RPG elements in ME2 were stripped down compared to what was there in ME1, but more of a general trend across many of the company's recent decisions.

While I understand it is important to try and state these concerns in a manner that will make it more likely that the company they're intended to help incorporates them instead of writing them off as deranged raving, it is a fact that the longer it goes until the people who have these concerns gets tangible evidence that their feedback is driving a changed direction the louder they're going to be.

For me, it is very personal given just how much I have loved Bioware for so very long. They were my favorite developer for many years and even now, despite my feeling like they've abandoned me, still remain in 2nd place behind CD Projekt Red.

The issue that I have is that there aren't many developers left that are making my type of game. I am very afraid that I'm "losing" Bioware, which has motivated me to come to this site more and more frequently in the hopes of making my voice heard and getting them to reverse course a bit.

E3 is the biggest reveal of the year in the video game industry. Not seeing anything at all from Bioware that is RPG related, given their trendline recently, is an alarming source of concern.

When they spend all their time highlighting the combat and Kinect...well...yes, that makes me wonder if they're just SAYING that they're putting RPG elements back in after they took so many out for ME2 or if they are actually doing so.

[Crackseed]

If you watch ME1's E3 trailer, at about 4 minutes total - it's introducing the game. We've never heard of ME at this point. So it's telling us what it's about, what to expect and goes into some details about the convos and RPG elements. Most of it is however, action sequences. The ME1 Launch trailer is nothing but talk and action. Fast forward to ME2. It no longer needs an introduction to how the RPG mechanics work, etc and focuses on what has changed and the improved action/story. ME3 drops at E3 now - I'm not seeing much difference here except that ME1 at E3 was a new game and had to be, you know, introduced and explained. Beyond that it's been nothing but pumping people up for ME's defining characteristics - your story, your choices and the insane ride and action that comes with it.

[addiction21]

Sidney wrote...

Seriously, you want to show all the white hot action of managing inventory? Maybe an exciting shot of the level up screen? Wait, people always oooh and ahhh at modifying your weapons!! Threads like this continue prove I grossly overestimated the intellect of RPG players.

I am with you and think we need to somehow figure out how to market hyperbole and sensationalism. We would be some rich mofos.

At the least its going to be another amusing year on BSN. WIth the same people being the same over the top petulent children, screaming the same rhetoric like they always have.

"I dont see it so I dont believe it"
"I am oldschool love me more"
"I am the type of fan that made you BioWare blah blah blah" 

I dont even feel like going on.

[Ixalmaris]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Maybe it was because the E3 audience has a different taste? Or maybe because they didn't have enough good footage of the RPG aspects that didn't have spoilers in them?

Anyone ever thought of that?

They showed a 10 minute video of the complete first level.
Thats quite a lot of time and spoilers, but of course just for Gears of War action.
The part about rescuing the Krogan? Full of spoilers, and pure action.

[Jaron Oberyn]

crackseed wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

I'll definitely nod with this a bit - where all the worrying and naysaying will get solid traction is when there's more time to show off and all we keep getting is action/talk sequences. If Bioware DOES want to sell this to everyone, especially after said promises, some of these later ME3 segments at E3 NEED to show off the promised additions.

I cannot disagree with that  I'm simply saying people need to be patient and stop jumping the shark so much and wailing that Bioware has sold out.

The RPG fans have been waiting for Bioware to come through ever since ME2's streamlining. The Shooter fans seem to be content with the way things are. Wouldn't you agree that it would be more reasonable to appeal to the RPG fans at the beginning of the conference than the shooter fans who loved ME2? Bioware has shown that the shooter fanbase is their priority, as they are much larger and provide more sales for them. We on the other hand are treated like second class citizens.

-Polite

[TopcatPlayer]

sympathy4saren wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

crackseed wrote...
Edit: Chris said it before me! Honestly guys, come on - break down into major RPG elements for an unveiling vid in a limited timeslot with tons of other things going on? The fanbase for this game is becoming so damn spoiled and unreasonable it's sickening.

So compalining that the developers have forsaken their core fanbase for the shooter fans is being negative just to be negative? You have a lot to learn apparently. I don't know which side of the line you stand on, but for people who have supported them when they weren't making ME or DA, its not spoiling when developer completely turns their back on the principles of what made them great and satisfied the consumers back in the day. Bioware's become just like all the other companies out there. Their name used to mean something back then, it used to be unique. Now, they're just another action/shooter developer trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. I don't know when, but somewhere along the way they completely lost their values, and the timeline correlates to when they were acquired by EA.

But apparently speaking negatively about where the games going genre wise is being negative just for the sake of being negative. I must have forgotten that every game Bioware makes is perfect. :innocent:

-Polite

Right on, my friend. I couldn't have said it any better.

hells yeah, my thoughts exactly

[Ixalmaris]

Il Divo wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

No. The focus is exactly the same: they're focusing on what is new and different about the game. The dialogue wheel was a new thing in ME1, and the entire concept of a gritty space marine sci-fi action RPG was pretty unique. They showcased those elements. Now, the new things are big, open mission vistas, combat mobility, and omni-tool murder.

This. Why should the developers show more dialogue, if it's exactly as we've seen in Mass Effect 1 and 2? Hell, I could understand if they added new motion capture, akin to L.A. Noire, but from what I've seen that does not seem to be the case. With gaming sequels, people want to know 1) what's new and 2) what's been improved. 

Oh, so what about all the talk about reinvigorating the RPG elements? Those would be new compared to ME2...

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Maybe it was because the E3 audience has a different taste? Or maybe because they didn't have enough good footage of the RPG aspects that didn't have spoilers in them?

Anyone ever thought of that?

They showed a 10 minute video of the complete first level.
Thats quite a lot of time and spoilers, but of course just for Gears of War action.
The part about rescuing the Krogan? Full of spoilers, and pure action.

How about Bioware makes a game where its just dialouge and no action. That will be fun.

[Whatever42]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Sure they have a reason to lie.
To ge tthe rpg fans to preorder while catering to the shooter fans to buy the game, too.

Bioware has said that they are not overhauling the mechanics but would like to add back in some RPG elements. If you seriously disliked ME2, that would really entice you to pre-order ME3?

As I said, if you didn't like ME2, I wouldn't even bother following ME3. I obviously can't say that with certainty, maybe they will add in an old skool inventory system or whatever turns your crank, but personally I wouldn't waste my time following a game that I don't expect to deliver.

[KotOREffecT]

Oh boy... And the floodgates are now open........

[Someone With Mass]

Good lord, you're all a bunch of whiners.

No wonder no developer wants to bring a discussion to this forum.

[ink07]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Good lord, you're all a bunch of whiners.

No wonder no developer wants to bring a discussion to this forum.

At least you are stepping up the discussion with meaningful well thought out posts and not whining yourself, right?

Good lord!

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Luls. This is why I'm giving up BSN. It's not even worth the effort of discussing anything.

Laughable.



Should be better when more information shows up at least.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 06 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Crackseed]

A fair point Beef - however, if we consider where some of these trailers are placed: Is it any surprise that all MS's ME3 spot was about was the Kinect additions? Microsoft is so in love with themselves and their Kinect hardware I'm amazed they didn't try to ask Bioware to make ME3 controllable via Kinect too! >_< Frankly I wish ME3 had avoided adding those elements because it just feels like Bioware is having to cater to TOO many things and show off stuff that we don't need to see as much. During their EA segment we got to see alot more of what we expected from it, though again - I am very much interested in the later demos this week which should give us an idea of what RPG elements we can look forward to.

I do grasp your concerns and the why - so I take no issues with that because you will be very much a beacon of reason if we end up having an RPG absent week of ME3 showings and I suspect the discontent in these boards will hit a fever pitch.

However, while Bioware has missed a beat at times, they have never let me down - and I suspect even for some of the people having a go at them now, the reason they are here is because more often then not Bioware has delivered for them - and that demands respect and loyalty - not blind loyalty - but at least to the point we are willing to see what they are bringing to the table before we write them off or call them sellouts.

As for them having merged with EA and feeling like they've lost a bit of who they are, I think we need to actually place much of the blame on these feelings to the game industry in general. Even the mighty Blizzard contends with these things, having been merged with the awful devil that is Activision [my opinion there] - as long as the core of the company continues to deliver quality games to me and hears my voice when most important, I can take some of the lesser evils that mergers and corporate ownership brings.

Perhaps I'm too optimistic and willing to forgive/believe though haha

[BeefoTheBold]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Sure they have a reason to lie.
To ge tthe rpg fans to preorder while catering to the shooter fans to buy the game, too.

Bioware has said that they are not overhauling the mechanics but would like to add back in some RPG elements. If you seriously disliked ME2, that would really entice you to pre-order ME3?

As I said, if you didn't like ME2, I wouldn't even bother following ME3. I obviously can't say that with certainty, maybe they will add in an old skool inventory system or whatever turns your crank, but personally I wouldn't waste my time following a game that I don't expect to deliver.

It is possible to both like the game that ME2 was, and want the RPG elements that Bioware promised that they'd be adding back in at the same time.

I liked ME2 a great deal. If ME3 does end up being more of the same, I'll probably still enjoy it.

It doesn't mean I won't be sad that Bioware had ended up lying through their teeth about beefing up the RPG elements and not following through.

Not referring to you specifically, but there's a lot of strawman arguments in this thread.

[sympathy4saren]

Phaedon wrote...

If you were keeping up with ME3 you would actually learn that they are improving RPG elements.

Pretty sure everyone knows about that. Pretty sure everyone knows this is a shooter, though.

I saw this path, and I tried to divert it.

[Il Divo]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Oh, so what about all the talk about reinvigorating the RPG elements? Those would be new compared to ME2...

They certainly would be new, especially after Mass Effect 1's craptastic RPG elements. But how about we hold off on Polite's melodrama? How about we hold off on all melodrama, for that matter? This was the intro to E3. We got a new trailer, an intro to the first level of gameplay, a brief look at Ashley/companions, and the new melee/cover/roll mechanics. How about one thing at a time? Seriously, this reminds me of how fans were trying to rip apart the ME3 teaser trailer and claim that Bioware is ruined. All that, from a teaser trailer. 

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 juin 2011 - 10:31 .

[AlanC9]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
So compalining that the developers have forsaken their core fanbase for the shooter fans is being negative just to be negative? You have a lot to learn apparently. I don't know which side of the line you stand on, but for people who have supported them when they weren't making ME or DA, its not spoiling when developer completely turns their back on the principles of what made them great and satisfied the consumers back in the day. Bioware's become just like all the other companies out there. Their name used to mean something back then, it used to be unique. Now, they're just another action/shooter developer trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. I don't know when, but somewhere along the way they completely lost their values, and the timeline correlates to when they were acquired by EA.

You've got a couple of big assumptions tucked in there. Not every long-term Bio fan likes CRPG conventions. For instance, I'm a big fan of RPGs, but I only tolerate CRPGs, which generally descend from bad RPG systems and implement the bad parts of those bad systems. So I guess you could say that I liked BG despite it being based on D&D, not because of it.

Maybe the Bio core fanbas was always me, and never you

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Instead of "Gears of Effect 3" they should turn it into "Final Massive Fantasy Effect 3". With anime animations and evil bad guys with black capes. Shepard will have a gunblade and Ashley's hair will be pink. Also Shepard's hair will be spiky.

[Ixalmaris]

Il Divo wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Oh, so what about all the talk about reinvigorating the RPG elements? Those would be new compared to ME2...

They certainly would be new, especially after Mass Effect 1's craptastic RPG elements. But how about we hold off on Polite's melodrama? How about we hold off on all melodrama, for that matter? This was the intro to E3. We got a new trailer, an intro to the first level of gameplay, a brief look at Ashley/companions, and the new melee/cover/roll mechanics. How about one thing at a time? 

I count 4 things.

[OmiOmi]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm sorry, you are asking "where is the roleplaying" in the (roughly) 3 minutes of in-game video you have seen so far?

Seriously?

HELL YEAH SERIOUSLY

You guys did it to yourselves.  You're no longer a top developer known for quality.  You're no longer a top developer period.  So we have to ask about these things, and then even if you answer we have to take it with a grain of salt because you're also liars.  You brought this on yourselves.

[Schneidend]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Oh, so what about all the talk about reinvigorating the RPG elements? Those would be new compared to ME2...

Between these different videos there's maybe 6 minutes of unique gameplay footage. These are also the VERY FIRST videos we're seeing of the actual game. Patience, grasshopper.

[Crackseed]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

crackseed wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

I'll definitely nod with this a bit - where all the worrying and naysaying will get solid traction is when there's more time to show off and all we keep getting is action/talk sequences. If Bioware DOES want to sell this to everyone, especially after said promises, some of these later ME3 segments at E3 NEED to show off the promised additions.

I cannot disagree with that  I'm simply saying people need to be patient and stop jumping the shark so much and wailing that Bioware has sold out.

The RPG fans have been waiting for Bioware to come through ever since ME2's streamlining. The Shooter fans seem to be content with the way things are. Wouldn't you agree that it would be more reasonable to appeal to the RPG fans at the beginning of the conference than the shooter fans who loved ME2? Bioware has shown that the shooter fanbase is their priority, as they are much larger and provide more sales for them. We on the other hand are treated like second class citizens.

-Polite

Polite - be careful. You're trying to speak for RPG fans. Who gave you that right? I am a die hard RPG fan. I have played Bioware games since BG1 and Icewind Dale. I loved ME2. I loved ME1. I do not feel that Bioware erred too heavily with ME2, though I WOULD agree that they streamlined a BIT too much, but they made a bold call based on our feedback on ME1 and if you asked me - which system would I prefer? I would go with ME2 everytime, even if I feel it should have had a bit more RPG elements in it. But when I looked at the laughable trainwreck that was ME1's inventory and lackluster weaponry system, I'm glad they experimented how they did.

So no, you do not speak for me as an RPG fan - and I enjoyed ME2 and welcome ME3 bringing back more elements, but I also realize that Bioware is willing to make tough choices in the interests of making the game...better.

Are you really going to tell me that ME1's "RPG elements" like the inventory and completely deceptive weaponry system [not talking about mods - but the actual advancement of weapons] is better then ME2's non-inventory and more defined weaponry?

Don't think so So please, do not speak for me as an RPG fan - I want Bioware to improve and fix the mistakes they make, but I also want them to continue to do what they do best - make insanely bad-ass stories combined with enjoyable gameplay/RPG trappings.

[jakal66]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Good lord, you're all a bunch of whiners.

No wonder no developer wants to bring a discussion to this forum.

yeah because your post is so helpful and meaningful, please...