556 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

Patience, yeah. First fight ( very important ) , after we'll see element rpg.

[Il Divo]

Ixalmaris wrote...

I count 4 things.

I'm glad you are able to count to four. Four things, amidst how many different options Bioware has to display? Again, complaining that Bioware did not showcase x,y, or z feature at the intro to E3 is pretty lacking. 

[KenKenpachi]

OmiOmi wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm sorry, you are asking "where is the roleplaying" in the (roughly) 3 minutes of in-game video you have seen so far?

Seriously?

HELL YEAH SERIOUSLY

You guys did it to yourselves.  You're no longer a top developer known for quality.  You're no longer a top developer period.  So we have to ask about these things, and then even if you answer we have to take it with a grain of salt because you're also liars.  You brought this on yourselves.

Acording to who? I like how you also use "we" how about you use "I" and stop thinking you speak for all of us, as I for one shockingly have yet to be upset with bioware's recent products. And think ME:3 will be fun to play. Unless you are royality, then you may use the royal "we" to show how insane you are.

Just because it doesn't have a mountain of stats and play's like a pen and paper game to "your" liking, doesn't mean **** to "me".

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 06 juin 2011 - 10:36 .

[Ixalmaris]

Schneidend wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Oh, so what about all the talk about reinvigorating the RPG elements? Those would be new compared to ME2...

Between these different videos there's maybe 6 minutes of unique gameplay footage. These are also the VERY FIRST videos we're seeing of the actual game. Patience, grasshopper.

+10 minutes or more encompassing the full first level of the game.
1 Dialogue, choice didn't seem to matter.

[Anathemic]

crackseed wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

crackseed wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm going with Chris here. You are pretty stupid if you're judging a whole game based on a three-minute video.

Or by the 10 minute video linked here
http://social.biowar...3/index/7552001

There is a lot more than just 3 minutes of gameplay out there. And what do all the trailers and demos have in common? Action.

A few posts above someone said ME is both, action and rpg. We have seen enough action, where is the other part, the rpg?

I'll definitely nod with this a bit - where all the worrying and naysaying will get solid traction is when there's more time to show off and all we keep getting is action/talk sequences. If Bioware DOES want to sell this to everyone, especially after said promises, some of these later ME3 segments at E3 NEED to show off the promised additions.

I cannot disagree with that  I'm simply saying people need to be patient and stop jumping the shark so much and wailing that Bioware has sold out.

The RPG fans have been waiting for Bioware to come through ever since ME2's streamlining. The Shooter fans seem to be content with the way things are. Wouldn't you agree that it would be more reasonable to appeal to the RPG fans at the beginning of the conference than the shooter fans who loved ME2? Bioware has shown that the shooter fanbase is their priority, as they are much larger and provide more sales for them. We on the other hand are treated like second class citizens.

-Polite

Polite - be careful. You're trying to speak for RPG fans. Who gave you that right? I am a die hard RPG fan. I have played Bioware games since BG1 and Icewind Dale. I loved ME2. I loved ME1. I do not feel that Bioware erred too heavily with ME2, though I WOULD agree that they streamlined a BIT too much, but they made a bold call based on our feedback on ME1 and if you asked me - which system would I prefer? I would go with ME2 everytime, even if I feel it should have had a bit more RPG elements in it. But when I looked at the laughable trainwreck that was ME1's inventory and lackluster weaponry system, I'm glad they experimented how they did.

So no, you do not speak for me as an RPG fan - and I enjoyed ME2 and welcome ME3 bringing back more elements, but I also realize that Bioware is willing to make tough choices in the interests of making the game...better.

Are you really going to tell me that ME1's "RPG elements" like the inventory and completely deceptive weaponry system [not talking about mods - but the actual advancement of weapons] is better then ME2's non-inventory and more defined weaponry?

Don't think so So please, do not speak for me as an RPG fan - I want Bioware to improve and fix the mistakes they make, but I also want them to continue to do what they do best - make insanely bad-ass stories combined with enjoyable gameplay/RPG trappings.

ME1's inventory was better, why? Because ME2 didn't even have one.

Herp Derp.

[Reever]

Mesina2 wrote...

Not possible to show without spoilers.

This.I trust BioWare!

[Ultai]

I'm indifferent to this, but I can't blame people for being anxious and skeptical of Bioware after the DA2 fiasco.

[Torhagen]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

The RPG fans have been waiting for Bioware to come through ever since ME2's streamlining. The Shooter fans seem to be content with the way things are. Wouldn't you agree that it would be more reasonable to appeal to the RPG fans at the beginning of the conference than the shooter fans who loved ME2? Bioware has shown that the shooter fanbase is their priority, as they are much larger and provide more sales for them. We on the other hand are treated like second class citizens.

-Polite

Compare this to the actual ME2

[iNixiRir]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Please point out where I specified that the E3 reveals have caused me to lose hope in Bioware. You apparently haven't seen my other discussions over the past year.

-Polite

Pretty easy to point that out - you've said that you got no more hope in Bioware games. You've posted this after todays reveals, which implies that you've lost your remaining hope after the E3 reveals.

ink07 wrote...
I am going to go out on a limb and say that after DA2, ME2 removing many RPG elements and all ME3 videos showing only shooter sequences people are wary of Bioware and don't exactly believe their words.
They haven't shown any RPG love in the last 18 months, so yes, showcasing ME3 as the next Sci Fi shooter is getting people anxious.

I don't see how people fail to understand that, I mean, unless they are the ones Bioware is trying to cater to, and are only here for the shooter parts of ME3, in which case they are seeing exactly what they expect.

I don't understand how people still consider 'loot', upgrades and other mind-wasting stuff RPG-elements. Mass effect was always an Action-RPG with the focus on combat and story/choices. And lets face it, those other old-skool rpg stuff like converting 100 items into omni-gel had 'Fail' written all over it.

The biggest problem is that people can only look at stuff Bioware doesn't show (yet).
If ME3 has no choices, no interaction with your squad and 90% combat, I will be the first to congratulate the doomsayers. For now, let's just wait and look at future reveals.

Modifié par iNixiRir, 06 juin 2011 - 10:39 .

[Occulo]

Considering that what was shown so far took place during the Microsoft conference, and Microsoft's current priority is showing hardcore gamers that the Kinect is worth their precious money, I'm not surprised that the skill trees and inventory and other RPG-esque stuff hasn't been shown.

"Look! You can actually shift around the items in your inventory with the Kinect! The Kinect is totally worth a hundred dollars!"

E3 hasn't even finished its first day yet. It could be that there are specific videos dedicated to the RPG elements, that haven't been shown yet.

[TopcatPlayer]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

This is pretty much how the fans here work. If you take out the action and add in more RPG elements like they ask, they are going to complain that the game has no action and is boring. If you add in more action elements then people are going to complain that there are no RPG elements, and is still boring. And if you try to mix the two together people will try to make up something about the game to **** at.

So basically, you have an unpleasable fanbase.

so the answer is to make a game that makes heaps of money but looks like every other game out there? I wouldn't mind if they took a step back to the ME1 days but expanded it, gave us more choice in what skills to upgrade. Gave us loot/inventory, gave us thermal clips that didn't run out (did technology go backwards in the 2 yrs Shepard was dead?). We already know we're gonna have dialogue choices and the actions gonna be great, it's BIOWARE, it's what they do, but lately the fans need more assurance in the actual roleplaying of the games. That's why ppl are pissed. They want to know something they dont already know, which is stats and ****. If i saw a trailer that showed the skill trees i'd go ape****. So far all i see is the same stuff that disapointed me in ME2. Everyone's saying it's early days but not really. The lack of RPGing has been a thorn in our side since ME2 came out and it needed to be addressed 1st before seeing a bunch of 'splosions.

[BeefoTheBold]

crackseed wrote...

A fair point Beef - however, if we consider where some of these trailers are placed: Is it any surprise that all MS's ME3 spot was about was the Kinect additions? Microsoft is so in love with themselves and their Kinect hardware I'm amazed they didn't try to ask Bioware to make ME3 controllable via Kinect too! >_< Frankly I wish ME3 had avoided adding those elements because it just feels like Bioware is having to cater to TOO many things and show off stuff that we don't need to see as much. During their EA segment we got to see alot more of what we expected from it, though again - I am very much interested in the later demos this week which should give us an idea of what RPG elements we can look forward to.

I do grasp your concerns and the why - so I take no issues with that because you will be very much a beacon of reason if we end up having an RPG absent week of ME3 showings and I suspect the discontent in these boards will hit a fever pitch.

However, while Bioware has missed a beat at times, they have never let me down - and I suspect even for some of the people having a go at them now, the reason they are here is because more often then not Bioware has delivered for them - and that demands respect and loyalty - not blind loyalty - but at least to the point we are willing to see what they are bringing to the table before we write them off or call them sellouts.

As for them having merged with EA and feeling like they've lost a bit of who they are, I think we need to actually place much of the blame on these feelings to the game industry in general. Even the mighty Blizzard contends with these things, having been merged with the awful devil that is Activision [my opinion there] - as long as the core of the company continues to deliver quality games to me and hears my voice when most important, I can take some of the lesser evils that mergers and corporate ownership brings.

Perhaps I'm too optimistic and willing to forgive/believe though haha

I understand your thought process here. I was where you were at for quite a while. For me, I've been disappointed with a number of things out of Bioware post-merger.

1. The decision to make The Old Republic instead of KOTOR3. - I really have no interest in MMORPGs and this really made me sad/worried. I understand the economics involved. I'm hoping that this is just to get EA off their backs so that they can make more traditional RPGs. My worry though is that it will end up much like Blizzard where the cash cow MMO gets the lion's share of time and development.

2. Witch Hunt - Just ticked me off. Buggy, short, almost no Morrigan presence, and no closure whatsoever on the Dark Ritual storyline. First thing Bioware ever turned out that felt like a blatant cash-in on an established name.

3. Dragon Age: Awakenings - Very buggy and with noticeable issues with regards to storyline carryover. Unless you were a human noble in the first game, almost no storyline impact of your choices from Origins. Heck, I needed to patch the game before I got a short note from my love interest from the first game explaining where they were. Still overall a very solid game, but had a little bit of "canary in a coal mine" feel given that it was rushed out so quickly and had noticeable "Recycling" issues. (Such as Sigrun shouting out one of Leliana's trademark lines "Brilliant!")

4. Dragon Age 2 - Most people know what I mean here. Won't waste the ink to say more other than to note the dramatically stripped down RPG elements.

5. The Arrival - Much like Witch Hunt. Buggy, rushed cash-in feel.


I really enjoyed ME2, but it also was very much missing RPG elements. So I've gradually gotten to the place I'm in now where Bioware has a bit of a credibility gap with me. After ME1 and DAO if Bioware had said, "Trust us. We're going to do (fill in the blank)" I'd have just nodded and went about my business.

They don't have quite that level of trust from me anymore and E3 is one area that I was really hoping to see them throw the RPG fans a bone or two.

[Crackseed]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

If you were keeping up with ME3 you would actually learn that they are improving RPG elements.

Pretty sure everyone knows about that. Pretty sure everyone knows this is a shooter, though.

I saw this path, and I tried to divert it.

My apologies for getting a bit more into this, but you're so full of poop your eyes are brown.

All you have done in every thread I have seen is parrot other people and spit the same line "ME is a shooter now" - you haven't contributed anything important, thought provoking or even resembling strong evidence to support it. You simply believe ME is a shooter now for some reason and pretend that you have been crusading to fix it.

Take some note of what people like Beef or Polite are doing - that's how you debate and make your points known, even if you disagree - not base one liners like you're bringing to the table.

[Whatever42]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Sure they have a reason to lie.
To ge tthe rpg fans to preorder while catering to the shooter fans to buy the game, too.

Bioware has said that they are not overhauling the mechanics but would like to add back in some RPG elements. If you seriously disliked ME2, that would really entice you to pre-order ME3?

As I said, if you didn't like ME2, I wouldn't even bother following ME3. I obviously can't say that with certainty, maybe they will add in an old skool inventory system or whatever turns your crank, but personally I wouldn't waste my time following a game that I don't expect to deliver.

It is possible to both like the game that ME2 was, and want the RPG elements that Bioware promised that they'd be adding back in at the same time.

I liked ME2 a great deal. If ME3 does end up being more of the same, I'll probably still enjoy it.

It doesn't mean I won't be sad that Bioware had ended up lying through their teeth about beefing up the RPG elements and not following through.

Not referring to you specifically, but there's a lot of strawman arguments in this thread.

Oh, I want more RPG elements too. In reality, everyone on these boards are RPG fans. The CoD crowd didn't really pick up ME and don't hang out here. We all want more customizability, more exploration, deeper skill trees etc.  We may disagree on some of the forms that should take but we all want more.

Personally, the story means more to me, though. If ME3 used 100% ME2 mechanics but delivered a story that was as personal as ME2 while as epic as ME1 (or more epic!) then I would be very happy. The deeper RPG elements would just be gravy. 

Again, when the designers flat out say that they want to add in more RPG elements, I think we have to take them at their word. I appreciate that you won't  - heck, even if they really, really want to, game design or budget contraints may limit what they feel they can do. However, remember that DA2 was a rush job while this game has had a very long timeline with a much higher promotion budget. You don't have to believe but I don't think we've arrived at the DOOM stage yet. 

[Nohvarr]

OmiOmi wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm sorry, you are asking "where is the roleplaying" in the (roughly) 3 minutes of in-game video you have seen so far?

Seriously?

HELL YEAH SERIOUSLY

You guys did it to yourselves.  You're no longer a top developer known for quality.  You're no longer a top developer period.  So we have to ask about these things, and then even if you answer we have to take it with a grain of salt because you're also liars.  You brought this on yourselves.

Let me see if I understand, they make a game that beats out Uncharted 2 in the sheer number of awards, and they're no longer a top developer? Expalin how the ME  team has failed to be a top developer?

[ink07]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Instead of "Gears of Effect 3" they should turn it into "Final Massive Fantasy Effect 3". With anime animations and evil bad guys with black capes. Shepard will have a gunblade and Ashley's hair will be pink. Also Shepard's hair will be spiky.

LOL,  are you implying that Mass Effect's story is deeper than pick blue answer to be good guy, pick red answer to be badass ass, half-dating sim half-OMG shooter, you are the hero, save the universe from destruction? The bad guys had been coming for 3 games now. ME2 barey had a story. You slay me! truly.

Funny as well when Bioware managed to deliver a worse "RPG" than FFXIII sfter calling them out for not being "RPGs" and guess what are Bioware doing now?

[Ixalmaris]

Occulo wrote...

Considering that what was shown so far took place during the Microsoft conference, and Microsoft's current priority is showing hardcore gamers that the Kinect is worth their precious money, I'm not surprised that the skill trees and inventory and other RPG-esque stuff hasn't been shown.

"Look! You can actually shift around the items in your inventory with the Kinect! The Kinect is totally worth a hundred dollars!"

E3 hasn't even finished its first day yet. It could be that there are specific videos dedicated to the RPG elements, that haven't been shown yet.

The most useful application of kinect would actually be the inventory. Thing about paging through your inventory with a wave of your hand and equip things by pointing at them...

[Jaron Oberyn]

crackseed wrote...

 Fast forward to ME2. It no longer needs an introduction to how the RPG mechanics work, etc and focuses on what has changed and the improved action/story.

I have a problem agreeing with that statement since the developers have constantly stated that each game is standalone. So if this was true, shouldn't they be featuring the RPG elements alongside the shooter elements in an effort to pull in more people? Unfortunately thats not the case. Their priority is the shooter fanbase since it is the largest fanbase at the moment. Therefore, they will put on display features that make the shooter fans want to pick up the game in the second and third installments of the trilogy. But its not as if the RPg elements are there and they just want to sideline them during publicity, they've completely strippe the RPG elements bare.

-Polite

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

ink07 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Instead of "Gears of Effect 3" they should turn it into "Final Massive Fantasy Effect 3". With anime animations and evil bad guys with black capes. Shepard will have a gunblade and Ashley's hair will be pink. Also Shepard's hair will be spiky.

LOL,  are you implying that Mass Effect's story is deeper than pick blue answer to be good guy, pick red answer to be badass ass, half-dating sim half-OMG shooter, you are the hero, save the universe from destruction? The bad guys had been coming for 3 games now. ME2 barey had a story. You slay me! truly.

Funny as well when Bioware managed to deliver a worse "RPG" than FFXIII sfter calling them out for not being "RPGs" and guess what are Bioware doing now?

Its called sarcasm.

[Occulo]

Ixalmaris wrote...

The most useful application of kinect would actually be the inventory. Thing about paging through your inventory with a wave of your hand and equip things by pointing at them...

I don't want a Kinect so I can point to a gun and equip it, I want a Kinect so I can undress Tali shove Joker out of his chair and pilot the Normandy myself.

[dcrypt]

OmiOmi wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm sorry, you are asking "where is the roleplaying" in the (roughly) 3 minutes of in-game video you have seen so far?

Seriously?

HELL YEAH SERIOUSLY

You guys did it to yourselves.  You're no longer a top developer known for quality.  You're no longer a top developer period.  So we have to ask about these things, and then even if you answer we have to take it with a grain of salt because you're also liars.  You brought this on yourselves.

e

LOL possibly one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on these boards. Nobody lied to you about anything. Stop crying. Jesus they said more stuff is on the way. Learn to have some patience you babies

[BeefoTheBold]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Sure they have a reason to lie.
To ge tthe rpg fans to preorder while catering to the shooter fans to buy the game, too.

Bioware has said that they are not overhauling the mechanics but would like to add back in some RPG elements. If you seriously disliked ME2, that would really entice you to pre-order ME3?

As I said, if you didn't like ME2, I wouldn't even bother following ME3. I obviously can't say that with certainty, maybe they will add in an old skool inventory system or whatever turns your crank, but personally I wouldn't waste my time following a game that I don't expect to deliver.

It is possible to both like the game that ME2 was, and want the RPG elements that Bioware promised that they'd be adding back in at the same time.

I liked ME2 a great deal. If ME3 does end up being more of the same, I'll probably still enjoy it.

It doesn't mean I won't be sad that Bioware had ended up lying through their teeth about beefing up the RPG elements and not following through.

Not referring to you specifically, but there's a lot of strawman arguments in this thread.

Oh, I want more RPG elements too. In reality, everyone on these boards are RPG fans. The CoD crowd didn't really pick up ME and don't hang out here. We all want more customizability, more exploration, deeper skill trees etc.  We may disagree on some of the forms that should take but we all want more.

Personally, the story means more to me, though. If ME3 used 100% ME2 mechanics but delivered a story that was as personal as ME2 while as epic as ME1 (or more epic!) then I would be very happy. The deeper RPG elements would just be gravy. 

Again, when the designers flat out say that they want to add in more RPG elements, I think we have to take them at their word. I appreciate that you won't  - heck, even if they really, really want to, game design or budget contraints may limit what they feel they can do. However, remember that DA2 was a rush job while this game has had a very long timeline with a much higher promotion budget. You don't have to believe but I don't think we've arrived at the DOOM stage yet. 

I did kind of feel that the story in ME2 was pretty weak. When you think about it, aside from the Collectors, everything that has advanced the plot storyline wise came from ME1.

I'd be willing to look past an awful lot if we get a bit more developed storyline than:

1. OMG the Collectors are (spoiler)
2. Build a kick butt team
3. Suicide mission

[Crackseed]

I follow you there Beef, and this is where I'm going to agree with you - I believe Bioware is being stretched TOO thin. They are being pulled into doing so many projects and eventually, something is going to slip up and cause a fuss. DA2 is already a bit of a worrying sign depending on what camp you're in and it is my hope that they will fine tune and refocus instead of doing too many spin offs or trying to keep up with everyone else.

Bioware should be Bioware - they will sell well and maintain a legion of fans if they keep to what they are best at.

On the point of SW:TOR vs KoTOR 3? I'm torn. Frankly I would have loved both. I am a sci-fi nerd at heart so the idea of being able to play an MMO in the Star Wars universe done by Bioware? I'm quite excited - however, after the miserable crapshoot that was KotOR 2 I really would love to see Bioware return to the Star Wars universe with the design and tech behind games like Mass Effect.

Edit: @ Polite - I grasp your logic re: ME2 needing to continue to define itself - however, it is the continuation and thus beyond some mechanics/gameplay changes, it is still a continuation of the Mass Effect story. So while it can be stand alone, I don't think it needed quite the same intro that ME1 had because by now, we know what ME is about and so the devs were showcasing more of "This is what ME2 is going to bring to the table" - I realize this is 100% my opinion though, but that's how I see it and I know a few others have echoed this to me.

Modifié par crackseed, 06 juin 2011 - 10:45 .

[KenKenpachi]

Nohvarr wrote...

Let me see if I understand, they make a game that beats out Uncharted 2 in the sheer number of awards, and they're no longer a top developer? Expalin how the ME  team has failed to be a top developer?

Pft thats easy, by not turning it into a little known indie title With around 40 stats, and pen and paper mechanics (which funny enough were NEVER standard RPG gaming mechanics anyways) and that its still not turn based.

[BeefoTheBold]

crackseed wrote...

I follow you there Beef, and this is where I'm going to agree with you - I believe Bioware is being stretched TOO thin. They are being pulled into doing so many projects and eventually, something is going to slip up and cause a fuss. DA2 is already a bit of a worrying sign depending on what camp you're in and it is my hope that they will fine tune and refocus instead of doing too many spin offs or trying to keep up with everyone else.

Bioware should be Bioware - they will sell well and maintain a legion of fans if they keep to what they are best at.

On the point of SW:TOR vs KoTOR 3? I'm torn. Frankly I would have loved both. I am a sci-fi nerd at my heart so the idea of being able to play an MMO in the Star Wars universe done by Bioware? I'm quite excited - however, after the miserable crapshoot that was KotOR 2 I really would love to see Bioware return to the Star Wars universe with the design and tech behind games like Mass Effect.

Have you had a chance to play KOTOR2 with Darth Stoney's Restored Content mod? Sounds like something that would be right up your alleyway.