70 réponses à ce sujet

[Ragnarok521]

In the gameplay demo you could sometimes see arrows directing you to another cover or a prompt that appear in the middle of the screen to perform a certain action. In my opinion these features are kind of out of place as they have the effect of reminding me it's a game I'm playing and breaking (I know, overused word) immersion. Anybody else have the same thoughts, concerns, or other comments?

[Nashiktal]

I kind of agree with you. I hope they don't keep those arrows outside of tutorials, or maybe a certain difficult level.

Those arrows were pretty big, took up a nice chunk of the screen.

[mmmu]

Can't see why there wouldn't be an option to turn them off / on.

[Kronner]

mmmu wrote...

Can't see why there wouldn't be an option to turn them off / on.

I hope so.

[Acet]

I'll be mad if I can't turn it off.

[onelifecrisis]

I sort of agree, but it looks like they tell you when you can perform certain actions, so I think I'd rather have them there, especially if ME3's cover system is as badly broken as ME2's. Hell I'd love it if there was some indicator telling me which ME2 objects can be hidden behind and which ones inexplicably can't. Would save me a lot of headache.

[atraxia]

Which demo was this on? If the arrows were on the Earth demo, I'm going to assume these arrows are part of a tutorial. If they were on Surkesh, I would be concerned. Hope there is an option to turn them off, if that is the case.

[BlazeShepard]

I also hope the arrows aren't there in the finished game or can be switched off. Like everyone else is saying it breaks immersion a little, kind of like how Gears of War has the small indicators at the bottom of the screen.

Game is primarily grays, browns, and other drab colors, then there's a bright green button showing at the bottom of the screen.

[sp0ck 06]

Guys, the arrows are a necessary UI function, given Shepard's increased range of mobility. Since there are now so many context sensitive actions bound to "A" button (or PC equiv), you need those arrows to tell you whats going to happen when you press A. Its mainly for the "cover-to-cover" mechanic. For example, if you are on the left edge of a piece of cover, holding the stick to the left and pressing A will slide you smoothly to an adjacent piece of cover, but ONLY IF there is some cover within the "slide range" If not, you'll probably roll. The reason you need the arrows is because you won't be able to tell if theres available cover.

It's not a tutorial, its a UI function.  It would be extremely frustrating to be constantly rolling when you expected to slide into cover, or sliding when you wanted to SWAT turn.

Modifié par sp0ck 06, 09 juin 2011 - 07:52 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

It would be extremely frustrating to be constantly rolling when you expected to slide into cover, or sliding when you wanted to SWAT turn.

Or they could just not have those be the same button.

I hate having UI elements obstructing my view of the game world.  This is why I keep asking for the UI elements to be confined to a frame, with the game world in the middle.

And what if I come at the encounter from an unexpected direction?  How could the arrows possibly accommodate that?

[sp0ck 06]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

It would be extremely frustrating to be constantly rolling when you expected to slide into cover, or sliding when you wanted to SWAT turn.

Or they could just not have those be the same button.

I hate having UI elements obstructing my view of the game world.  This is why I keep asking for the UI elements to be confined to a frame, with the game world in the middle.

And what if I come at the encounter from an unexpected direction?  How could the arrows possibly accommodate that?

Well, ME is already button-starved on the 360.  They're just using the movement/UI system from Gears of War.  Once you play for a bit you'll understand the necessity of the arrows.   I agree they aren't great for immersion but ultimately smooth gameplay is more important.

As for coming from an unexpected direction...not sure what you mean.  You can only really be in a flat plane while in cover, and that's the only time the arrows are relevant.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Or they could just not have those be the same button.

Consoles only have a few buttons, and then it becomes cost ineffective to change the design for the PC.

And what if I come at the encounter from an unexpected direction?  How could the arrows possibly accommodate that?

They don't and they're not designed to. All the arrow does is allow you to select the appropriate movement for your character.

[Brenon Holmes]

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 09 juin 2011 - 08:31 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

They're just using the movement/UI system from Gears of War. 

Something with which I am entirely unfamiliar.

Once you play for a bit you'll understand the necessity of the arrows.

 
I doubt that.

I agree they aren't great for immersion but ultimately smooth gameplay is more important.

I strongly disagree.

As for coming from an unexpected direction...not sure what you mean.  You can only really be in a flat plane while in cover, and that's the only time the arrows are relevant.

So the arrows exist only relative the Shepard?  They don't persist on the ground?

That's not as bad as I'd feared.

In Exile wrote...

Consoles only have a few buttons, and then it becomes cost ineffective to change the design for the PC.

They'd have more if they were willing to use the buttons in combination.

Remember the hotbars in NWN?  You could trigger the items there with the function keys, and then access extra hotbars by holding down Ctrl or Shift, and then those buttons in combination with the function keys would trigger the items on those secondary hotbars.

If a 360 would use a shoulder-button like a Shift key, that would effectively double the number of buttons available for commands.  They could doubie it again by using both shoulder buttons.

For some reason, console games don't typically require you to use buttons in combination, but if they did they'd be able to offer greater gameplay freedom.

And they should all be mappable, dammit.

They don't and they're not designed to. All the arrow does is allow you to select the appropriate movement for your character.

The game isn't supposed to decide the "appropriate" movement for my character.  I do that.  That's my whole job within the game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

Good news.  Thanks Brenon.

[Elvis_Mazur]

There is always something breaking someone's immersion, isn't there?

[In Exile]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

Would the PC just replace A with space, and use the same context sensitive array?

[sp0ck 06]

@Sylvius

The arrows are not persistent and they do not "tell you where to go". They will briefly pop up in certain very specific situations to let you know what's going to happen when you press "A". Thats all. And yes you WILL understand once you play it, lol.

If you"strongly disagree" that a comprehensible UI is more important than "breaking immersion," not sure what to tell you.  Do ammo counters break immersion, or health bars?  The arrows are just as critical in this kind of combat.

Modifié par sp0ck 06, 09 juin 2011 - 08:36 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

Mind you I partially agree; I think that stuff is unnecessary.

[shinobi602]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

Edit: nvm

Modifié par shinobi602, 09 juin 2011 - 08:36 .

[Relix28]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

So, is this "feedback" going to be optional, or will we be forced to watch these arrows throughout the game?

[Brenon Holmes]

In Exile wrote...

Would the PC just replace A with space, and use the same context sensitive array?

Sure would. I was just testing something on the XBox so my brain was still on that platform :happy:.

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 09 juin 2011 - 08:36 .

[sp0ck 06]

Relix28 wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

So, is this "feedback" going to be optional, or will we be forced to watch these arrows throughout the game?

The arrows will actually be on your screen for less than 2% of the game I would imagine (just pulling that number out of me arse but you get what I'm saying: you'll barely notice after a while).

Modifié par sp0ck 06, 09 juin 2011 - 08:38 .

[Brenon Holmes]

Relix28 wrote...

So, is this "feedback" going to be optional, or will we be forced to watch these arrows throughout the game?

Well... I think you'd find it pretty difficult to engage a lot of those systems without appropriate feedback, but I can raise it up as something to consider.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Would the PC just replace A with space, and use the same context sensitive array?

As an aside, I hated that ME2 made Space an action button.  Space to me is Pause.  Space will always be Pause.

Luckily, ME2 did let me remap the controls.  I made E the action button, just as it had been in ME.