70 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
They'd have more if they were willing to use the buttons in combination.

Remember the hotbars in NWN?  You could trigger the items there with the function keys, and then access extra hotbars by holding down Ctrl or Shift, and then those buttons in combination with the function keys would trigger the items on those secondary hotbars.

If a 360 would use a shoulder-button like a Shift key, that would effectively double the number of buttons available for commands.  They could doubie it again by using both shoulder buttons.

The 360 already uses the shouler-buttons, doesn't it? I switched to PC for ME because it required an online connection to play & download DLCs and the Xbox live accounts are broken if you don't immediately set them up as online accounts, so I can't recall exactly, but I think the shoulder button was already used for a feature.

The Fn key on the PC wasn't bound to anything, but the consoles do but every key.

For some reason, console games don't typically require you to use buttons in combination, but if they did they'd be able to offer greater gameplay freedom.

Like I said, I think it's because all the buttons are already mapped.

And they should all be mappable, dammit.

On PC, absolutely.

The game isn't supposed to decide the "appropriate" movement for my character.  I do that.  That's my whole job within the game.

The game has to respond to your input. Let me give you an example: DA2 had a particularly troublesome implementation of point & click where the button that moved the camera also ordered companions to move. This was wrong, because the game didn't listen to how you wanted to have the character move.

The UI doesn't decide how you act, but it has to give you as accurate as possible inputs for you to choose your actions. Context sensitive controls do that.

[wepeel_]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

Still, a tip/suggestion would be to integrate those context sensitive moves and their go-ahead signals into the gameplay by making Shepard change pose slightly (or similar) instead of adding an arrow in. You can add a lot into a game just with subtle animations really.

[Relix28]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

So, is this "feedback" going to be optional, or will we be forced to watch these arrows throughout the game?

The arrows will actually be on your screen for less than 2% of the game I would imagine.

Yeah, I get that. I played Gears of War 1 & 2, I know how it goes. It would still be nice to have the option to turn it off though.

[sp0ck 06]

wepeel_ wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

As has been mentioned... they're not prompts, they're feedback.

So if I'm in at the right end of a piece of cover and I push right on the stick, the arrow will show up to indicate that if I press A (while still holding right), I will do a swat turn (or a short roll to an adjacent piece of cover across an open space). If you stop pushing right, the arrow goes away.

Otherwise, you have no way (short of turning the camera over and looking) to see if it's possible to do a swat turn. This is the same thing for all of the context sensitive cover actions. :happy:

Still, a tip/suggestion would be to integrate those context sensitive moves and their go-ahead signals into the gameplay by making Shepard change pose slightly (or similar) instead of adding an arrow in. You can add a lot into a game just with subtle animations really.

That's a good idea but I don't think it would work.  In the middle of a hectic firefight, I don't want to be squinting at my Shepard, "Is that the 'slide to next cover pose, or the SWAT turn pose, or the roll pose, or the vault pose?"

The system works perfectly in gears of war, and the new ME3 arrows look much better and less intrusive than the Gears ones.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Like I said, I think it's because all the buttons are already mapped.

Sure, but if they reserved a shoulder button (or both) as a sort of Shift key, that would free up even more buttons to use for things.

Yes, you couldn't just tack this idea onto ME2 as designed, but if ME2 were designed just slightly differently this would work fine.

Unless Microsoft has some sort of rule against it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

In the middle of a hectic firefight, I don't want to be squinting at my Shepard, "Is that the 'slide to next cover pose, or the SWAT turn pose, or the roll pose, or the vault pose?"

Since I will ALWAYS pause the game to make decisions like that, and because a "hectic firefight" is never something I enjoy, having the feedback be designed to be easy to use during one doesn't help me.

[In Exile]

Brenon Holmes wrote...
Sure would. I was just testing something on the XBox so my brain was still on that platform :happy:.

Makes sense. I managed to confuse context sensitive for pressure sensitive, since some 360 games change pop-out moves and the like based on the button pressuse. Thanks!

[sp0ck 06]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Like I said, I think it's because all the buttons are already mapped.

Sure, but if they reserved a shoulder button (or both) as a sort of Shift key, that would free up even more buttons to use for things.

Yes, you couldn't just tack this idea onto ME2 as designed, but if ME2 were designed just slightly differently this would work fine.

Unless Microsoft has some sort of rule against it.

I actually think thats a really good idea.  Combine both power and weapon selection into one interface and bind it to RB.  That frees up LB as a "shift."  You could then map more powers to the face keys.  It's really frustrating playing a Adept or Engineer on 360 and having to constantly pause to fire off powers.  Thats the real immersion breaker.

[Brenon Holmes]

wepeel_ wrote...

Still, a tip/suggestion would be to integrate those context sensitive moves and their go-ahead signals into the gameplay by making Shepard change pose slightly (or similar) instead of adding an arrow in. You can add a lot into a game just with subtle animations really.

Even if it was an animation pose (which would be a nice touch)... we'd *still* probably want feedback to help reinforce that the action was possible.

With subtle things like weight shifting or a slight pose alteration - in a lot of cases people just don't notice... or if they do, it's not clear what it means. I like the idea, personally, but I can understand the reasoning behind needing the reinforcement of the action. :happy:

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And they should all be mappable, dammit.

On PC, absolutely.

On consoles, too.  Why force everyone to use the same control scheme?

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote..
As an aside, I hated that ME2 made Space an action button.  Space to me is Pause.  Space will always be Pause.

Luckily, ME2 did let me remap the controls.  I made E the action button, just as it had been in ME.

I like space as an action button. Pause, to me, is usually the most important action in a game that allows it, but in a cover shooter, cover is.

[sp0ck 06]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

In the middle of a hectic firefight, I don't want to be squinting at my Shepard, "Is that the 'slide to next cover pose, or the SWAT turn pose, or the roll pose, or the vault pose?"

Since I will ALWAYS pause the game to make decisions like that, and because a "hectic firefight" is never something I enjoy, having the feedback be designed to be easy to use during one doesn't help me.

Err...not to sound like a jerk, but if you pause the game that frequently, how can you complain about context sensitive arrows breaking immersion?

[Sylvius the Mad]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I actually think thats a really good idea.  Combine both power and weapon selection into one interface and bind it to RB.  That frees up LB as a "shift."  You could then map more powers to the face keys.  It's really frustrating playing a Adept or Engineer on 360 and having to constantly pause to fire off powers. 

They did this 10 years ago in NWN.  It would be nice if the entire industry hadn't forgotten the lesson.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
On consoles, too.  Why force everyone to use the same control scheme?

Oh, I usually don't play console games. I don't care. I'm sure console playrs would like the feature.

[Sylvius the Mad]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Err...not to sound like a jerk, but if you pause the game that frequently, how can you complain about context sensitive arrows breaking immersion?

I don't think pause breaks immersion.  I never have.

I do think that me panicking in a situation where my character wouldn't - that breaks immersion.  So rather than having Shepard be ineffective because I'm not making decisions or triggering actions fast enough, I'd like to see Shepard succeed based on her skills and abilities, while giving me the time I need to activate them.

I hate action games.  Anything that makes the game less actiony is a good thing.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
On consoles, too.  Why force everyone to use the same control scheme?

Oh, I usually don't play console games. I don't care. I'm sure console playrs would like the feature.

I certainly would have.  I recall that games would sometimes let you choose which of a handful of control schemes you wanted, but you weren't allowed to build your own.

[candidate88766]

For sake of ease I imagine these arrows are necessary. If you hold down the stick to move out of cover, you want to know if you're going to move out of cover or do a swat turn straight into some more cover. if the game didn't tell you were you were aiming it'd get very annoying.

Also, in both Mass Effect games so far you get icons popping up telling you who or what you can interact with. Why are these somehow more intrusive? They're necessary for the gameplay to be smooth.

[Aimi]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I certainly would have.  I recall that games would sometimes let you choose which of a handful of control schemes you wanted, but you weren't allowed to build your own.

In some games, you could - TimeSplitters 2, for instance.

[Someone With Mass]

I barely noticed them during the demo, because I was too busy watching Shepard stab people, so I don't think they'll bother me much in the full game. I think they're a neat feature, even. I'll have more control that way.

[Aurellia]

I think context sensitive with a single button makes sense on the console. On the PC I really hate having a single button do multiple things. I'd like to see the prompt when I lean over but be able to map it to a different key. I want to be able to storm unambiguously without accidentally activating cover and sticking me to a side wall and causing me to die. While some players may be happy with the simplicity of one button I would like the option to be explicit about my moves at the cost of a bit more key complexity.

[Demigod]

To be honest Id like options to turn elements of the hud as well as the promts/feedback off.

For example I dont particularly need to know how many head shots I have done. If I want to know I can look it up latter. By all means have a toggle to let people who are chasing the achievements chose to have it on but I hated seeing it pop up in ME2 and while I doubt I'm in the majority I'm sure I wasn't alone.

Adding an option to turn off the roll indicator and possibly other hud elements would be nice. I cant see it happening as im assuming its tied into the show little cutscene button shown in the demos but it would be nice to have.

[sp0ck 06]

Demigod wrote...

To be honest Id like options to turn elements of the hud as well as the promts/feedback off.

For example I dont particularly need to know how many head shots I have done. If I want to know I can look it up latter. By all means have a toggle to let people who are chasing the achievements chose to have it on but I hated seeing it pop up in ME2 and while I doubt I'm in the majority I'm sure I wasn't alone.

Adding an option to turn off the roll indicator and possibly other hud elements would be nice. I cant see it happening as im assuming its tied into the show little cutscene button shown in the demos but it would be nice to have.

I'm not a fan of the show cutscene button, or cheev progress popping up constantly, but trust me you will want those arrows.

[Ruud333]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

So, is this "feedback" going to be optional, or will we be forced to watch these arrows throughout the game?

Well... I think you'd find it pretty difficult to engage a lot of those systems without appropriate feedback, but I can raise it up as something to consider.

Please do

To me (someone who obviously has yet to play ME3)  it seems very similar to the prompts/tooltips in Gears, which has an option to turn them off.  I have always managed fine in Gear with them off once I have got to grips with the game.

I don't mind the prompts that let you know where to interact with the enviroment (doors, containers etc), but the roll, turn etc prompts I'd like to be able to turn off (plus they could do with a bit of re-designing from an asthetic pov ).

[Mims]

I think these arrows are totally necessary, given it's a new system.

...that said, I'd also like the ability to just turn them off. I think some people might have the ability to ignore them, but while watching the demo they constantly were grabbing my eye. They're awfully bright and sorta big.

[Demigod]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I'm not a fan of the show cutscene button, or cheev progress popping up constantly, but trust me you will want those arrows.

I didnt need them in splitercell and alpha protacol to name but two. I know mass effect combat is faster and Im sure they can give helpful feedback but I dont see why I need them. Im not asking to have them removed I just want the option to turn them on and off.

 I like games with no hud or where I can turn elements off. Fps's with just iron sights not a hovering dot, its a lot harder to aim in third person so Im not complaining about that

I like games to be a challenge and I dont want it to tell me everything I can do every time I hide behind another inexplicably bullet proof planter.

Modifié par Demigod, 09 juin 2011 - 09:41 .