293 réponses à ce sujet

[javierabegazo]

I'll just leave this here

[LPPrince]

Ahglock wrote...

Indoctrination never caused eyes to look funny.  Saren's eyes only looked funny after he was physically implanted with crap tons of cyber so he could be directly controlled.  No one else gets funny eye problems with indoctrination.  If they decided to change that and ret-con the lore in some lame comic or novel so be it.  

And who's gonna say a completely different Reaper artifact, say the one in Evolution, can't mess with someone's eyes? Hmm? That's not a retcon. That's called a "new development".

[eye basher]

More than likely the illusive man knows something we don't i'm gonna say it know the illusive man will be the reason why we beat the reapers.

[duval_apothecary904]

Perhaps the Reaper Artifact TIM encountered in the Evolution comics acted as a sort of vaccine, immunizing him to a limited degree from indoctrination? We know that he wasn't affected in the same way as Ben and the turians, but at the same time seem to be assuming that merely means he's 'on the road' to indoctrination. I wonder if perhaps it couldn't be the other way around.

[JudgementOfBioware]

Ever heard the word retcon?

ME3 is doing a lot of that. TIM isn't TIM anymore just like Ashley isn't Ashley anymore. I fully expect TIM to be in a catsuit.

[Wildecker]

The Illusive Man never hid his intent to save the human RACE, not as many human individuals as possible. If the Reapers offered a deal that looked good - say, for example: "We take as many humans as are needed to build one of our own, and then we'll leave you alone - in an area of space extending one thousand lightyears around your homeworld, provided you meet certain restrictions." - well, Cerberus might sell out like Saren did.
And you as the key figure of an all-galactic resistance fight will be in high demand by the Reapers. Delivering Cmdr. Shepard alive or even mostly intact could be one of the requirements for the deal.

[Ice Cold J]

javierabegazo wrote...

I'll just leave this here

EVERYONE tries to solve a mystery before the end, dude.

[yamomoto]

 I'D say cerberus is "caught" or trying to catch the reapers so they can use them for their own gain, and you are either trying to destroy them(paragon), or trying to use them for your own gain/your section of cerberus' gain(renegade).

[LGTX]

Ahglock wrote...

LGTX wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

I just want to point this out- TIM's eyes are not evidence of reaper-dom.

Yes, they are. 

And the Reapers have been known to show subtelty in ways they indoctrinate, like with Kenson from Arrival - not actually revealing their influence unless they need to, making gentle mental nudges to guide the indoctrinated to whatever goals the Reapers pursue, etc. Retribution got the whole thing nailed quite well, but there the case was in extreme.

Case to point, Kenson got indoctrinated simply by being in the vicinity of Object Rho. Whereas Timmy... well, you know.

Anyway, go read up Mass Effect: Evolution if you can tolerate the cheesy plot, it ties in to the lore and explains TIM's background. Eyes included.

Indoctrination never caused eyes to look funny.  Saren's eyes only looked funny after he was physically implanted with crap tons of cyber so he could be directly controlled.  No one else gets funny eye problems with indoctrination.  If they decided to change that and ret-con the lore in some lame comic or novel so be it.  

I don't get your argument, seems to me like you're grasping for reasons to jump at conclusions. Evolution didn't retcon anything, every Reaper artifact is unique. You're arguing against facts, not speculation.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

You know the worst part of this?

The lecture Shepard's going to get from the VS who chewed him out on Horizon.

"Told you so! Told you so!"

The "I told you so" from Tali is going to be irritating too.

My Shepard would be tempted to give them the "Virmire" treatment if they make any smart aleck remarks like that.

[Meltemph]

Perhaps TIM figured out how to do his own indoctrination? I mean, that would explain why Shep mentioned it. Also, if TIM was able to indoctrinate his own people, then he could send them into reaper tech w/o worrying about them being indoctrinated by the reapers, themselves, maybe.

Would also explain why TIM is now after Shep as well, sense it seems indoctrination still keeps your wits about you, unlike, what I would assume a control chip, would do.

[Dean_the_Young]

Seboist wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

You know the worst part of this?

The lecture Shepard's going to get from the VS who chewed him out on Horizon.

"Told you so! Told you so!"

The "I told you so" from Tali is going to be irritating too.

My Shepard would be tempted to give them the "Virmire" treatment if they make any smart aleck remarks like that.

I'd accept it from the Virmire Survivor, all things being equal.

From Tali, however? 

"So, Admiral Board, about the Alarai..."

[Ultai]

Northern Sun wrote...

I've decided even with the new information I'm still keeping the base. I won't let fear compromise who I am.

Haha, touche.  I will as well.

[Seboist]

Before hearing about the Cerberus railroading I was actually expecting the Batarians to fulfill the role of the ME1 Geth and ME2 Collectors in this game. The Reapers could have swayed them over due to the whole Arrival incident and/or outright indoctrination(they're passing through their space after all).

[Aimi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Before hearing about the Cerberus railroading I was actually expecting the Batarians to fulfill the role of the ME1 Geth and ME2 Collectors in this game. The Reapers could have swayed them over due to the whole Arrival incident and/or outright indoctrination(they're passing through their space after all).

I thought that was likely too. Albeit there is no reason we couldn't have had a mix of indoctrinated foes to fight on each world. If on Earth there'd have be plenty of humans who have succumbed, on Tuchanka there'd be krogans, ect...

The batarian civilization being so isolationist and controlled by a central government would make them easier to be set up as a proxie by the Reapers.

Then again I still think one of the female Cerberus assassins looks like a female batarian in a hardsuit, so...

It appears as though Cannibals (or at least, some Cannibals) are a kind of huskified batarian; CHuds brought it up in the Gamespot interview.

[sholden180]

I'm not entirely sure that they are working together. "Both against you" doesn't automatically indicate that they are "allied against you".

We might be facing threats from two axes in ME3.

And wouldn't that be cool

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Before hearing about the Cerberus railroading I was actually expecting the Batarians to fulfill the role of the ME1 Geth and ME2 Collectors in this game. The Reapers could have swayed them over due to the whole Arrival incident and/or outright indoctrination(they're passing through their space after all).

I thought that was likely too. Albeit there is no reason we couldn't have had a mix of indoctrinated foes to fight on each world. If on Earth there'd have be plenty of humans who have succumbed, on Tuchanka there'd be krogans, ect...

The batarian civilization being so isolationist and controlled by a central government would make them easier to be set up as a proxie by the Reapers.

Then again I still think one of the female Cerberus assassins looks like a female batarian in a hardsuit, so...

I can't shake the thought that some of those Cerberus troops are Batarians either. It's perculiar how the helmets have four eyes and in the same place as the Batarians do.

[Hardolin]

Doesn't say they are 'working with', just that they are 'also enemies'.

My guess is that Cerberus thinks they can use/control the reapers.

[ME-ParaShep]

If Cerberus is smart.. they would avoid the Reapers altogether. The Reapers would whoop Cerberus butts any day and any time. They don't have the power to survive after the galactic war even with the galaxy united fighting against the Reapers because even if the Reapers are destroyed or destroy the universe, Cerberus will have to deal with Shepard, the Alliance, and those willing to stop Cerberus because Cerberus attacks Shepard and everyone else who're friends of Shepard. Cerberus is screwed anyways if we win or lose. The Reapers will destroy them too (or turn them into liquid or husks) because Reapers are looking to destroy humanity as a priority. "Cerberus IS humanity" as quoted from TIM. Cerberus actions are in vain and it's only making the fight against the Reapers harder for us. Assuming that Cerberus is smart, they're most likely working to gain the Reapers trust and sympathy; enough to survive the Reaper onslaught.

[kalpain]

Wildecker wrote...

The Illusive Man never hid his intent to save the human RACE, not as many human individuals as possible. If the Reapers offered a deal that looked good - say, for example: "We take as many humans as are needed to build one of our own, and then we'll leave you alone - in an area of space extending one thousand lightyears around your homeworld, provided you meet certain restrictions." - well, Cerberus might sell out like Saren did.
And you as the key figure of an all-galactic resistance fight will be in high demand by the Reapers. Delivering Cmdr. Shepard alive or even mostly intact could be one of the requirements for the deal.

I just had this conversation last night.  This is absolutely plausible and pretty much verbatim what I was telling him.  It is absolutely plausible to think that this could happen.

[Alex06]

I'm guessing that TIM wanted to integrate Reaper tech into his troops, so that he could manage to bring the fight the to Reapers, but all of the Cerberus troops ended up indoctrinated instead.

But there are other possibilities:
- TIM has been "converted" by the voices in his head since the incident with the Turians, and really has always thought [throughout the events of the 4 games and in-between each] that the only way to assure human dominance is to let the Reapers assimilate them instead of the other races. "Don't you get it? We don't stand a chance against them. The only chance for our continued survival is assimilation. I told you I'd assure Human dominance, and I won't let your stoic, but blind ignorance stop me." I could absolutely see that happening.

- TIM has finally succumbed to the Reaper voices in his head and is now working for them. Perhaps he now looks completely mechanical, or like a Husk.

- TIM has been lying to us and using us. Though he did try to revive us...Why? Perhaps to assimilate Shepard's DNA and abilities or test him to see if Humans are worthy of assimilation? Or maybe to simply prove the latter to the Reapers, so that they would assimilate us instead of other races?

- TIM has made a deal with the Reapers; And they're willing to trade technology with Cerberus or let humans live; Perhaps as their pets, or perhaps even they are simply lying and using TIM. Perhaps the man thinks that the only way to ensure Human dominance and survival is to "assimilate" the Reapers and risk becoming like them. This theory, to me, seems to be the most in line with what we know so far about TIM's character.

- Perhaps TIM is with us, but he is merely pretending to work with the Reapers, knowing Shepard cannot fail and that if he did not risk of taking this course of action (working with the Reapers), they'd all be dead anyway. He may well be using this "alliance" as an excuse to misdirect and weaken the Reapers or properly direct Shepard, letting Cerberus lose intentionally and take on missions that he knows the Reapers would not fail, but that Cerberus would. He may also want to use this alliance as an excuse to collect Shepard and develop something that prevents indoctrination in Humans. Could be a reason why he revived us...Perhaps we, as Shepard, are simply immune to indoctrination for some reason we don't know yet? (Perhaps Anderson succumbs to the Reapers, but we don't, as we see him walking near those giant Reapers on Earth, and the boy Shepard sees implies that he can't be helped; He's been near the Reapers, so he's as good as dead.) Anyways, coming from TIM, this could be a "foolish" paragon road of some kind; Taking the high moral road, but not realizing the danger of the Reapers. Seems like something that Jack Harper would do...TIM, not sure. Jack's changed since he became TIM, and he seemed to have a lot of knowledge on indoctrination even then.

- TIM may just be constantly fighting with the Reapers who are trying to dominate his mind, so Cerberus' actions are strange and contradictory throughout the entire game. Hey, maybe we'll find him cringing in a corner, and he'll beg us for help, and we could take a paragon (standing by him and taking him with us) or renegade path (tell him to "screw off" and/or shoot him)...Now that could be interesting. He might end up being a bit like his buddy Ben.

Modifié par Alex06, 08 juin 2011 - 09:22 .