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[Domunication]

 I think that it is a theory that is perhaps not as ridiculous as it may seem. Being a pro-human group that spent huge resources and time rebuilding Shepard and supplying him with everything he needed there appears to be no reason to attempt to find and eliminate him rather than working to save Earth. I do want to see how Miranda and Jacob are in ME3 as they were both unsure about Cerberus towards the end of the mission. SO it may be something to do with the Reapers but I really cannot think of how it would be explained. And let's not forget the Illusive man's odd eyes...

[Alex06]

ME-ParaShep wrote...

If Cerberus is smart.. they would avoid the Reapers altogether. The Reapers would whoop Cerberus butts any day and any time. They don't have the power to survive after the galactic war even with the galaxy united fighting against the Reapers because even if the Reapers are destroyed or destroy the universe, Cerberus will have to deal with Shepard, the Alliance, and those willing to stop Cerberus because Cerberus attacks Shepard and everyone else who're friends of Shepard. Cerberus is screwed anyways if we win or lose. The Reapers will destroy them too (or turn them into liquid or husks) because Reapers are looking to destroy humanity as a priority. "Cerberus IS humanity" as quoted from TIM. Cerberus actions are in vain and it's only making the fight against the Reapers harder for us. Assuming that Cerberus is smart, they're most likely working to gain the Reapers trust and sympathy; enough to survive the Reaper onslaught.

1 - TIM has a connection to the Reapers; Read the latest comics. He hears them "speaking" to him. It's why he even has those weird cybernetic eyes. He can't avoid the Reapers.

2 - Cerberus wants to assure Human dominance in the galaxy...If the Reapers are killing Humans off, how can Cerberus avoid them, especially since they are Humans themselves? They can't hide; The Reapers will eventually find them, since they are connected to Cerberus through The Illusive Man. Either Cerberus allies itself with the Reapers, seeing them as saviors; Or they fight against them. If they do nothing, they are assimilated. If they surrender, they are assimilated (but in that case, it's justified as them wanting to be assimilated). If they fight, and perhaps join the others who are fighting the Reapers, then they just might survive to ensure their primary goal.

[Elvis_Mazur]

What if the Illusive Man is working for the Reapers so he can get vital information about them and use it to betray them and help in the war?

[Alex06]

Domunication wrote...

 I think that it is a theory that is perhaps not as ridiculous as it may seem. Being a pro-human group that spent huge resources and time rebuilding Shepard and supplying him with everything he needed there appears to be no reason to attempt to find and eliminate him rather than working to save Earth. I do want to see how Miranda and Jacob are in ME3 as they were both unsure about Cerberus towards the end of the mission. SO it may be something to do with the Reapers but I really cannot think of how it would be explained. And let's not forget the Illusive man's odd eyes...

The eyes are due to a "semi-indoctrination" caused by the Reapers.
Perhaps TIM simply thinks he can survive and fight the Reapers and underestimates the use of Reaper tech?

And I'm sure there's a good reason behind Cerberus working with the Reapers. Perhaps not all of Cerberus is with them. And even then, just saying that they've been indoctrinated seems feasible and reasonable enough.

[Alex06]

PetrySilva wrote...

What if the Illusive Man is working for the Reapers so he can get vital information about them and use it to betray them and help in the war?

Read my first post in this topic? (last post on the last page before this one)
I think I pretty much covered most of it.

In any case, the twitter post by Casey Hudson seems to indicate that both parties aren't necessarily working together; They may simply be BOTH working against you, for different reasons each, without being allied.

Modifié par Alex06, 08 juin 2011 - 09:35 .

[felipejiraya]

In the Q&A they've done right now there was a REALLY interesting conversation.

Liara said something about Cerberus (I didn't catch it) and then Shepard responded: "They're indoctrinated, they're capable of everything".

[Pride Demon]

- Apparently the Reapers to reach us had to go through the whole of Batarian space (mentioned by Mr. Houston)...
- In one of the book almost all of Cerberus was wiped out by a Turian raid, but TIM survives...
-TIM has no qualms about using aliens when it serves his purpose (Feron, Liara, Aria, etc...)

It may very well be many of those cerberus Agents are actually indoctrinated Batarians, though I wouldn't put any bets on this actually being true...

[Lazarus-Cell]

Remember that Cerberus in the past had no qualms with "improving" humanity, both through genetic engineering and cybernetic implants. This alone shows the organizations will to manipulate the human body as they see fit. Wouldnt manifesting in a reaper, ensuring "human" dominance, then be TIMs wet dream? Humans transformed into the most powerfull beeings in the known univers. Yeah, hed like that.
Besides: "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"
There are a ton of reasons though, already listed, for why Cerberus would switch.

I cant believe i trusted the bastards. Not enough to give them the C-base, but still...

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I can't shake the thought that some of those Cerberus troops are Batarians either. It's perculiar how the helmets have four eyes and in the same place as the Batarians do.

Indeed, that's what catches my attention too. Part of me would like to think this is all a really clever disinformation campaign by Bioware to hide the truth and make the big twists in the game all the better. However I'm a pessimist so it is probably just a coincidence...

It wouldn't be the first time they mislead us, the first ME2 teaser implied Legion killed Shepard. That's not to say I have much hope in this case...

[wr3xl3ss]

IMO, after having read Evolution, I have this idea that after ME2, the definition of working towards "the progress and advancement of the human race" may have changed considerably to T.I.M.

Still, I'm pretty sure he's still there and not indoctrinated at all, even though probably the same cannot be said from his troops... I have doubts that even pro-humans fanatics would support this kind of pro-Reaper behaviour.

[ME-ParaShep]

Alex06 wrote...

ME-ParaShep wrote...

If Cerberus is smart.. they would avoid the Reapers altogether. The Reapers would whoop Cerberus butts any day and any time. They don't have the power to survive after the galactic war even with the galaxy united fighting against the Reapers because even if the Reapers are destroyed or destroy the universe, Cerberus will have to deal with Shepard, the Alliance, and those willing to stop Cerberus because Cerberus attacks Shepard and everyone else who're friends of Shepard. Cerberus is screwed anyways if we win or lose. The Reapers will destroy them too (or turn them into liquid or husks) because Reapers are looking to destroy humanity as a priority. "Cerberus IS humanity" as quoted from TIM. Cerberus actions are in vain and it's only making the fight against the Reapers harder for us. Assuming that Cerberus is smart, they're most likely working to gain the Reapers trust and sympathy; enough to survive the Reaper onslaught.

1 - TIM has a connection to the Reapers; Read the latest comics. He hears them "speaking" to him. It's why he even has those weird cybernetic eyes. He can't avoid the Reapers.

2 - Cerberus wants to assure Human dominance in the galaxy...If the Reapers are killing Humans off, how can Cerberus avoid them, especially since they are Humans themselves? They can't hide; The Reapers will eventually find them, since they are connected to Cerberus through The Illusive Man. Either Cerberus allies itself with the Reapers, seeing them as saviors; Or they fight against them. If they do nothing, they are assimilated. If they surrender, they are assimilated (but in that case, it's justified as them wanting to be assimilated). If they fight, and perhaps join the others who are fighting the Reapers, then they just might survive to ensure their primary goal.

Cerberus's actions are in vain no matter what they do to gain the Reaper's though because the Reapers will only use them just as how they used Saren. Cerberus is only prolonging it's doom by aiding the Reapers. If the Reapers win the war, they won't stop to sympathize with Cerberus because of their actions. Take the Protheans for example. Even though some of the Protheans were indoctrinated by the Reapers, they weren't spared. No Protheans were spared except for the few Prothean scientists that put themselves in cryo and wanted to make a difference in the galaxy by use of the Conduit that they created. The Reapers have always been manipulators. To the Reapers everyone is a tool or an infection that needs to be vaccined. Cerberus included no matter what they do to try and appease the Reapers. In another retrospect, they're just like the Collectors, a group only servants to the Reapers and easily disposable.

[Sidewinder_617]

it's confirmed the cerberus forces you encounter are reaper-controlled,
but as for cerberus as a whole? maybe jack is supporting shepard to get his power back
(and more).

[Eshaye]

Retribution + Evolution. Really now, TIM knows how to make a crazy amount of indoctrinated shock troopers in DAYS, he's taken serious pleasure in turning a human into a husk, or an advanced version of one. Pleaaaase.

Indoctrination works very subtly on the more resilient and strong willed ones, that doesn't mean it's not working. I'd throw in that perhaps it works even better with those with highly intelligent minds, take Kahlee Sanders in Retribution, didn't take her long for the Reapers to make total sense to her...

[wr3xl3ss]

Eshaye wrote...

Retribution + Evolution. Really now, TIM knows how to make a crazy amount of indoctrinated shock troopers in DAYS, he's taken serious pleasure in turning a human into a husk, or an advanced version of one. Pleaaaase.

Indoctrination works very subtly on the more resilient and strong willed ones, that doesn't mean it's not working. I'd throw in that perhaps it works even better with those with highly intelligent minds, take Kahlee Sanders in Retribution, didn't take her long for the Reapers to make total sense to her...

I guess her condition in that situation was fairly similar to being hypnotized... Either way, she was hardly indoctrinated. As mentioned previously over and over, it's something that develops over time.

[Ice Cold J]

PetrySilva wrote...

What if the Illusive Man is working for the Reapers so he can get vital information about them and use it to betray them and help in the war?

No disrespect, but I think it'd be pretty stupid to try and kill the one person in the galaxy who has more experience handling Reapers than anybody.

Why try to kill Shepard, a powerful ally and a sybol of hope for beating these things?

[Serpenttt92]

TIM is not indoctrinated...
Working with the reapers is a great way to better understand them.

[GreenDragon37]

candidate88766 wrote...

AlexRmF wrote...

if Cerberus is working with the Reapers what was the damn point of ME2 and Project Lazarus? TIM could've just let Shepard's body be taken by the Collectors from the Shadow Broker.. he wouldn't have spent billions of credits to bring him back, because the Collectors were working for his Masters anyway and could be considered allies.
I sure hope there's more to this... there's got to be, because it makes no sense

How about this for an idea then: in ME2 they brought Shepard back in order to fight the Reapers - to stop them arriving and prepare for if they did. In ME3 we see that Shepard has failed - the Reapers have taken Earth and Shepard has failed to prepare the galaxy and defend humanity's homeworld. If they can buy time for humanity by working with the Reapers then they'll take that chance. If it means killing Shepard then thats fine - in their eyes he's already failed. Besides, they weren't working with the Reapers in ME2.

This makes the most sense. I hate Cerberus anyway, but there needs to be a good motivation, and this is a good one in my eyes.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 09 juin 2011 - 05:24 .

[Eshaye]

wr3xl3ss wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Retribution + Evolution. Really now, TIM knows how to make a crazy amount of indoctrinated shock troopers in DAYS, he's taken serious pleasure in turning a human into a husk, or an advanced version of one. Pleaaaase.

Indoctrination works very subtly on the more resilient and strong willed ones, that doesn't mean it's not working. I'd throw in that perhaps it works even better with those with highly intelligent minds, take Kahlee Sanders in Retribution, didn't take her long for the Reapers to make total sense to her...

I guess her condition in that situation was fairly similar to being hypnotized... Either way, she was hardly indoctrinated. As mentioned previously over and over, it's something that develops over time.

Did you read the book? They make it REALLY clear what indoctrination is like. For that moment yes she was being indoctrinated but then Grayson died and the reapers released their hold on him, leaving no more whispers and no more indoctrination.... 

I' ve lost count how many times I've posted this, BUT it's not because TIM is after Shepard that he wants Shep dead. That's assumption, no one said Cerberus wants to kill Shepard... I don't remember hearing that once. Also assuming TIM was not working with the Reapers is another assumption, it's not because it seems that way that it is. 

ME3 is way too far off... *impatient sigh* 

Modifié par Eshaye, 09 juin 2011 - 10:27 .

[Abram730]

Meltemph wrote...

Perhaps TIM figured out how to do his own indoctrination? I mean, that would explain why Shep mentioned it. Also, if TIM was able to indoctrinate his own people, then he could send them into reaper tech w/o worrying about them being indoctrinated by the reapers, themselves, maybe.

Would also explain why TIM is now after Shep as well, sense it seems indoctrination still keeps your wits about you, unlike, what I would assume a control chip, would do.

Legion: Technology is not a straight line. There are many paths to the same end. Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives.

Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

[MadCat221]

Looks like the abyss finally gazed back into Timmay.

[Spectre_907]

Hudson says Cerberus and the Reapers are against you. This doesn't mean they are with the Reapers and against you. They could have their own agenda.