2247 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightrain50]

Oblivious wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

It doesn't even look like Ashley anymore. She's probably an atheist too. How can you change a loved character so much.

If they actually did that then everybody will romance her. An atheist, non-bigoted Ashley? Might ****** off her fans (unless they explained it in the context of the story) but having her denounce her religion would definitely increase her fan threads by an additional 200 pages

 

That's why 76% of Americans are Christian.

[Uszi]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

I find it amusing some seem to have such a problem with the idea of a Woman doing battle with long hair.

I guess I can't speak for the women-folk of the forum, but I had a hard time playing tennis with hair half that long in high school.  If my life was on the line, I'd shave my head.

FutureBoy81 wrote...
sex sells get over it

I think that ultimately people like me who are opposed to sexing Ashely up will get over it.  It certainly isn't something that would cause me to not play the game.  But as a fan of the character, I will express my dissappointment now and defend my reasons for it.

MissMaster wrote...

Wow. Really all this rage because a female character is dressed in sexy clothing?

The rage has more to do with the fact that it seems like they've changed some inherent qualties of a character for marketing reasons.  Then again, I filled a thread with venom over Samara and Miranda in the Armor discussion threads, so maybe it is over that too.

For the record:  They could be in thong bikinis outside of combat for all I care.  But I'd rather they wear something that makes sense when they are fighting.

Dave of Canada wrote...

They said they're adding more longer hairstyles, *gasp* to be used in combat situations. So hair for the sake of combat situations isn't a viable excuse.

It has less to do with actual combat effectiveness and more to do with characterization.  People have reasoned that given what we know about Ashley based on the things she's said and done in the past two games, the casual hair style seems out of character.

I mean there's really two arguments going on in the thread right now:  the, "oh no more sexy, impractical combat gear," and the, "they changed Ashley in significant ways for marketing reasons(sex sells)."

Even if you want to waive of practicality in combat, and in a way we've already had to with Miranda and Samara, your still left with character changing. 

Modifié par Uszi, 09 juin 2011 - 06:32 .

[Zeratul20]

Nightrain50 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

It doesn't even look like Ashley anymore. She's probably an atheist too. How can you change a loved character so much.

If they actually did that then everybody will romance her. An atheist, non-bigoted Ashley? Might ****** off her fans (unless they explained it in the context of the story) but having her denounce her religion would definitely increase her fan threads by an additional 200 pages

 

That's why 76% of Americans are Christian.

Again, you can convince her to be less of a bigot in ME1. She's not that bad.
(Just like you can convince Kaiden to be "more renegade".)

[Garlador]

I'll be honest; I romanced her in ME1, but I was never genuinely "attracted" to her. She was just a bit off-putting, both in her mannerisms, beliefs, looks, and other aspects. This is an improvement (and she's not wearing PINK....)

... But that said, it looks like she and Miranda merged into one being. Mirashley Willawson, if you will. Skin-tight outfit? Check. Long, brunette hair? Check. Looking really pretty? Check. High heels? Check. Big, sexy rear? Um... *goes to check and never comes back*...

[ThatDancingTurian]

The somewhat creepy way she can somehow lean forward and still arch her back? Check.

[Zeratul20]

Meh, DA II was worse. Every female character seems to be trying to dislocate their hips/spine, I believe.

[bandfred]

Oblivious wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

It doesn't even look like Ashley anymore. She's probably an atheist too. How can you change a loved character so much.

If they actually did that then everybody will romance her. An atheist, non-bigoted Ashley? Might ****** off her fans (unless they explained it in the context of the story) but having her denounce her religion would definitely increase her fan threads by an additional 200 pages

Uhh...what? I think all rational people wouldn't care what her religious beliefs would be as it does not impact her character THAT much. Not like Tali's collectivist upbringing or Thane's religion. The only ones who would care would be fundies on both sides. Personally I would rather her character stay the same, as she already barely resembles the Ash I romanced in ME 1.


And for the record, only red in the face fundies would call Ashley a religious fundamentalist. Just because she mentions her religion twice in ME 1 and once in ME 2 and never presses it on anyone else? Someones being intolerant. Grow the hell up (and this was not necessarily directed towards you, just the people who go on a "she's a racist religious fundie" tirade).

Modifié par bandfred, 09 juin 2011 - 06:43 .

[Massadonious1]

The "big sexy rear" never went anywhere.

[Uszi]

Garlador wrote...
Mirashley Willawson

+1

I would say that's what's brought up all the venom in the thread, there are a couple of things at work:

1.  Fans of the character don't want her changed in a significant way, and there is currently at least superficial evidence that part of what made her Ashley might have been changed.

2.  The fact that she looks and seems like Miranda, or at least is bringing Miranda style sex appeal to the game, brings up a host of sub issues:
2-A:  Catsuits/Long flowing hair in combat situations.
2-B:  Sexual objectification of female characters.

And so on.

Massadonious1 wrote...

The "big sexy rear" never went anywhere.

*SNIP*

I don't think anyone is objecting to her big sexy rear.

I for one fondly remember her big sexy rear from otherwise boring elevator rides, in fact.

Modifié par Uszi, 09 juin 2011 - 06:46 .

[Oblivious]

Zeratul20 wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

It doesn't even look like Ashley anymore. She's probably an atheist too. How can you change a loved character so much.

If they actually did that then everybody will romance her. An atheist, non-bigoted Ashley? Might ****** off her fans (unless they explained it in the context of the story) but having her denounce her religion would definitely increase her fan threads by an additional 200 pages

 

That's why 76% of Americans are Christian.

Again, you can convince her to be less of a bigot in ME1. She's not that bad.
(Just like you can convince Kaiden to be "more renegade".)

Oh I know, I know. Similarly you could convince Pressly not to be a racist (unlike Ashley he is a true racist). It was a play on how the 2 biggest reasons most people that hate Ashley hate her are she's a bigot and she's religious. It was a satire on the fan base and Bioware's designs, not the character herself

[Oblivious]

bandfred wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

It doesn't even look like Ashley anymore. She's probably an atheist too. How can you change a loved character so much.

If they actually did that then everybody will romance her. An atheist, non-bigoted Ashley? Might ****** off her fans (unless they explained it in the context of the story) but having her denounce her religion would definitely increase her fan threads by an additional 200 pages

Uhh...what? I think all rational people wouldn't care what her religious beliefs would be as it does not impact her character THAT much. Not like Tali's collectivist upbringing or Thane's religion. The only ones who would care would be fundies on both sides. Personally I would rather her character stay the same, as she already barely resembles the Ash I romanced in ME 1.


And for the record, only red in the face fundies would call Ashley a religious fundamentalist. Just because she mentions her religion twice in ME 1 and once in ME 2 and never presses it on anyone else? Someones being intolerant. Grow the hell up (and this was not necessarily directed towards you, just the people who go on a "she's a racist religious fundie" tirade).

It's ok that you defended your favorite character and I already explained my post but I'm curious, what's a fundie?

[bandfred]

Oblivious wrote...



It's ok that you defended your favorite character and I already explained my post but I'm curious, what's a fundie?

Fundie = short for fundamentalist

And my post was made before your explanation post.

Modifié par bandfred, 09 juin 2011 - 06:55 .

[Ziggy]

"I don't need money, a knight in shining armor or a man to make me happy, this is who I am....I like her, and you'd better like her too." - Ashley me1

What happened to this Ashley?

Now she seems to care more about looking hot in combat than being able to see properly....

Why bioware? Why?! They seem to have changed the one thing about her character that made her awesome : (

[mcneil_1]

The new Ashley looks too similar to Joanna Dark <_<

[Oblivious]

Em23 wrote...

"I don't need money, a knight in shining armor or a man to make me happy, this is who I am....I like her, and you'd better like her too." - Ashley me1

What happened to this Ashley?

Now she seems to care more about looking hot in combat than being able to see properly....

Why bioware? Why?! They seem to have changed the one thing about her character that made her awesome : (

I just realized that by the end of ME1 she had all of that:lol: The millions of credits that my Shepard had, a knight in shining armor who saved her twice (Virmire and when the Normandy went down in flames), and a man. Oh the irony of the situation:lol:

[KBomb]

Uszi wrote...

I would say that's what's brought up all the venom in the thread, there are a couple of things at work:

1.  Fans of the character don't want her changed in a significant way, and there is currently at least superficial evidence that part of what made her Ashley might have been changed. 

There is no evidence that her character has been changed in a significant way and yes, it is superficial. The keyword is: Superficial. People are basing their newfound knowledge of her based on an outfit and hairstyle. Mind buggery.

2.  The fact that she looks and seems like Miranda, or at least is bringing Miranda style sex appeal to the game, brings up a host of sub issues:
2-A:  Catsuits/Long flowing hair in combat situations.

I don't see a catsuit. I see a form-fitting outfit. I saw the same thing in Mass Effect. Long flowing hair? Didn't see that either. I saw shoulder length hair, and in one screen shot it was pulled behind her ear. Again, female Shepard has two hairstlyes with loose hair and bangs pushed behind her ear too. The wind could blow it right in her face during a tactical moment and something bad could happen. I used the hairstlye, I lived.

2-B:  Sexual objectification of female characters.

I am probably one of the rare few who think all the sexual objectification of females is an over-rated and over used argument. It’s a double edged sword that never seems to get dull.

[yesikareyes]

I chose Kaidan over Ashley because she wouldn't shut up with her 'O, Captain, my captain' =))

[Oblivious]

yesikareyes wrote...

I chose Kaidan over Ashley because she wouldn't shut up with her 'O, Captain, my captain' =))

Gee thanks for contributing so much to the current conversation. No really, thank you, it helped so much with the current discussion.

[Massadonious1]

Uszi wrote...
I don't think anyone is objecting to her big sexy rear.

No, but that's apparently part of her new "hypersexualization", which clearly existed before now.

From what I've seen of her new armor, it doesn't look functionally different than what she wore in that screenshot. 

So, the only thing people are basing their opinions on is that she.....let her hair down? 

[yesikareyes]

Oblivious wrote...

Gee thanks for contributing so much to the current conversation. No really, thank you, it helped so much with the current discussion.

Well this thread is about Ashley right? and other threads discuss more than one topic as well.

[Zeratul20]

Oblivious wrote...

Zeratul20 wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Nightrain50 wrote...

It doesn't even look like Ashley anymore. She's probably an atheist too. How can you change a loved character so much.

If they actually did that then everybody will romance her. An atheist, non-bigoted Ashley? Might ****** off her fans (unless they explained it in the context of the story) but having her denounce her religion would definitely increase her fan threads by an additional 200 pages

 

That's why 76% of Americans are Christian.

Again, you can convince her to be less of a bigot in ME1. She's not that bad.
(Just like you can convince Kaiden to be "more renegade".)

Oh I know, I know. Similarly you could convince Pressly not to be a racist (unlike Ashley he is a true racist). It was a play on how the 2 biggest reasons most people that hate Ashley hate her are she's a bigot and she's religious. It was a satire on the fan base and Bioware's designs, not the character herself

My apologies, then. I misunderstood your post.

I actually liked the character the way she was. She had her flaws, but that's what made her an enjoyable character, with a decent amount of character development. The only character I mostly disliked, was Miranda, (mainly because I saw her as "Cerberus' Ambassador", though even she experienced some form of character development.) She wasn't a bad character, mind you. (Even though the focus did tend to shift to her... Assets.)

[Oblivious]

yesikareyes wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Gee thanks for contributing so much to the current conversation. No really, thank you, it helped so much with the current discussion.

Well this thread is about Ashley right? and other threads discuss more than one topic as well.

This is about her appearance, not who you left behind on Virmire. Just because other threads go off-topic doesn't mean this one has to:unsure:

Zeratul20 wrote...
My apologies, then. I misunderstood your post.

I actually
liked the character the way she was. She had her flaws, but that's what
made her an enjoyable character, with a decent amount of character
development. The only character I mostly disliked, was Miranda, (mainly
because I saw her as "Cerberus' Ambassador", though even she experienced
some form of character development.) She wasn't a bad character, mind
you. (Even though the focus did tend to shift to her... Assets.)

NP, it was a bit vage and I would probably do the same in your shoes;)

Modifié par Oblivious, 09 juin 2011 - 07:49 .

[Uszi]

KBomb wrote...
There is no evidence that her character has been changed in a significant way and yes, it is superficial. The keyword is: Superficial. People are basing their newfound knowledge of her based on an outfit and hairstyle. Mind buggery.

Heh, you can't say "There is no evidence," and then agree with me that the evidence is superficial.  Especially if you're going to accuse my camp of mind buggery.

Undeniable fact:  In so far as we've seen Ashley Williams in ME3, she is significantly different in appearance from ME1/ME2.

Draw whichever conlcusions you want, but facts are facts.

I don't see a catsuit. I see a form-fitting outfit. I saw the same thing in Mass Effect. Long flowing hair? Didn't see that either. I saw shoulder length hair, and in one screen shot it was pulled behind her ear. Again, female Shepard has two hairstlyes with loose hair and bangs pushed behind her ear too. The wind could blow it right in her face during a tactical moment and something bad could happen. I used the hairstlye, I lived.

On the outfit front:  It is not possible to resolve that argument.  No one knows what the heck her suit is made of.

On the hair:  No one is arguing that you're actually going to get killed because of your hair style in the game.  I think that when push comes to shove, everyone in this thread will shut up and just play the damn thing.

The hair argument centers on the fact that Ashley seemed to generally valued practicality over style in ME1/ME2, and her new appearence does not jive with her previous sentiments.  Old Ash tied it back to keep it out of her way, New Ash seems like she will rely on the video game magic that Miranda or Femshep use so that it never bothers them/gets in their way.

I am probably one of the rare few who think all the sexual objectification of females is an over-rated and over used argument. It’s a double edged sword that never seems to get dull.

Agree.  I would only use it in this case because I find it annoying that an established character might be changed to increase sex appeal.  To say that Ashley wasn't already sexualized is to ignore the side boob we were treated to in ME1.  Or the ass level camera angles in the Elevators in ME1.  Etc.

Well that, and all of the new band wagon ash fans are a little annoying, only because they're on board now because her ****** are out more.

The bottom line was that in the previous game Ash was sexy but still tough and practical, which is what made her an interesting character for me.  Now to me it seems initially that some of that might be gone given her redesign in ME3.  Maybe you disagree.  Fine, but hardly mind buggery on either of our parts.

[evmiller]

Rheia wrote...

I agree. She looks great.

Now, if FemShepard doesn't get similar lighter looking armor option and gets stuck in N7 heavy only I'll, for one, be upset.

Relax, Ash doesn't get to wear N7 armor because she never wen't through the N7 academy. She's just a regular alliance grunt so she can go put her pheonix armor back. on.

[KBomb]

Uszi wrote...

Heh, you can't say "There is no evidence," and then agree with me that the evidence is superficial.  Especially if you're going to accuse my camp of mind buggery.

I didn’t say there was evidence. I said the fact people were basing their new found image of how she changed on hair and clothes , which to me is superficial. I said nothing about evidence, only ideals about what I saw from the conversation. I also had no idea that people who had opposing opinions were now in “camps”. I most certainly didn’t accuse anyone on these forums of being mind buggery. If I tell someone that their opinion on something makes no sense to me, that doesn’t equate to me thinking that individual makes no sense as a person. You can dislike someone’s opinion and even their view point and still be friends or even have respect for them. Shocking in this day and time, I know.

Undeniable fact:  In so far as we've seen Ashley Williams in ME3, she is significantly different in appearance from ME1/ME2.

Draw whichever conlcusions you want, but facts are facts.

I don't think she has changed significantly.  I don’t think hair and uniform is significant change. To you, it does. Not to me. If her attitude, demeanor, worldly views are changed, then I will say yes. So thus far, it is subjective. Not fact-- opinion.

Modifié par KBomb, 09 juin 2011 - 08:45 .