2247 réponses à ce sujet

[Oblivious]

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

I understand the argument that people find it to be a character "derailment" but judging a girl by how she dresses is not only an insult to Bioware but also women in general. If she opened her mouth and it didn't feel like Ashley then yes, she changed, but so far her lips hadn't even moved and she only showed up in ONE screenshot/concept art and THREE seconds of footage.

[Garlador]

Don't you know? "Tough" women aren't ever allowed to be sexy.

Though if you want her in a tinfoil mini-skirt and thigh high boots, you should at least buy her dinner first.

Modifié par Garlador, 09 juin 2011 - 04:32 .

[Crooty]

damn i shouldn't have killed her on Virmire

[Nexpeed]

MirandaIzHawt wrote...

damn i shouldn't have killed her on Virmire

You can always play ME1

[A.N.A.N]

Ashley's outfit doesn't look any less protective than this. It just isn't also a hardsuit like ME1 armour was.

[Fiery Phoenix]

A.N.A.N wrote...

Ashley's outfit doesn't look any less protective than this. It just isn't also a hardsuit like ME1 armour was.

I think it's the heels and hairstyle that's concerning people, though.

[Manic Sheep]

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

I understand the argument that people find it to be a character "derailment" but judging a girl by how she dresses is not only an insult to Bioware but also women in general. If she opened her mouth and it didn't feel like Ashley then yes, she changed, but so far her lips hadn't even moved and she only showed up in ONE screenshot/concept art and THREE seconds of footage.

Appearance and personality are not completely separate. Appearance is a big part of characterisation. It should reflect the character or what that character would want you to see. How a character presents themselves tells you allot about them. You can’t just put them in separate boxes or it creates dissonance between what they say and what they actually do.
You cannot on one hand try and portray a sensible, solider and who puts practicality first and then have them dress impractically . I wouldn’t give Garrus outfit to Thane or vice versa because it wouldn’t match.
As casuals its ok, I still don't really like it but its not too bad or necessarily OOC. As combat gear it sucks.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 09 juin 2011 - 09:56 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

A.N.A.N wrote...

Ashley's outfit doesn't look any less protective than this. It just isn't also a hardsuit like ME1 armour was.

I think it's the heels and hairstyle that's concerning people, though.

For me it's also the weird Miranda posture and the white strips on her legs that give the illusion of thigh boots and short shorts.

[Nohvarr]

[quote][quote]A.N.A.N wrote...

Ashley's outfit doesn't look any less protective than this. It just isn't also a hardsuit like ME1 armour was.[/quote]
I think it's the heels and hairstyle that's concerning people, though. [/quote]

Actually, those heels look like what you'd find on a running shoe.[/quote]

[quote]Nohvarr wrote...

Allow me to repost








[/quote]

Modifié par Nohvarr, 09 juin 2011 - 10:01 .

[Wulfram]

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

Battlefield armour is not fashion.

[Nohvarr]

Wulfram wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

Battlefield armour is not fashion.

But it does change and advance. If I told you that Ashley's new suit was a type of new combat armor (liquid Body Armor?) that allowed for maximum protection via new construction techniques, without sacrificing mobility, what woul you say then? What if she bought this suit with her own money, because that's what her old commander used to do to get the good stuff?

[Oblivious]

Manic Sheep wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

I understand the argument that people find it to be a character "derailment" but judging a girl by how she dresses is not only an insult to Bioware but also women in general. If she opened her mouth and it didn't feel like Ashley then yes, she changed, but so far her lips hadn't even moved and she only showed up in ONE screenshot/concept art and THREE seconds of footage.

Appearance and personality are not completely separate. Appearance is a big part of characterisation. It should reflect the character or what that character would want you to see. How a character presents themselves tells you allot about them. You can’t just put them in separate boxes or it creates dissonance between what they say and what they actually do.
You cannot on one hand try and portray a sensible, solider and who puts practicality first and then have them dress impractically . I wouldn’t give Garrus outfit to Thane or vice versa because it wouldn’t match.
As casuals its ok, I still don't really like it but its not too bad or necessarily OOC. As combat gear it sucks.

So rather than be realistic in that clothes don't make the person you'd rather they strive to fulfill a stereotype? If a person wears a T-shirt, jeans, running shoes every day and never comb their hair they can't possibly be smart. If a person dresses in black just because they like black they have to be gothic. If somebody wears muscle shirts and running shorts they must be muscle heads with no sophistication. And, of course, if you wear a collared tucked-in shirt and glasses you must be a weak nerd.

The days when appearance and personality went hand-in-hand are long gone. The days when you could easily pick out the poor and the rich by how they dress or when everybody falls into a nice little high school stereotype have long since died out. First appearances are important and Bioware fulfilled that in ME 1, but if 3 years later she is still wearing the same hair, the same armor, the same shoes then Bioware has committed a bigger sin than changing her personality a bit. They have denied her any character development and shown how static she is as a character unlike Liara, Garrus, and Tali who evolved with the plot.

Do you judge people based on how they dress, even in combat zones? Seen any pictures of actual soldiers, both historical and modern, and none of this hollywood BS that people are fed? Some soldiers have facial hair despite it being against regulations, some have unkempt or long hair, some wear hats when they should be wearing helmets. Some wear shorts even in potential combat zones, some smoke despite the dangers, some wear comfortable shoes rather than heavy boots. There is even less uniformity if you look at historical troops.

Ashley isn't the same "I gotta redeem my family name and have to work 3x as hard to do it" person. She has redeemed her family. She has been promoted to officer. She is the 2nd human spectre. I don't want her to run around with the same hair and the same armor and the same personality talking about how she still has to work 3x harder than anybody else.

Does this mean high heels? No. Does this mean long hair? No. Does this mean a cat suit? No. But she has none of those things and despite any mistakes on Bioware's part in the ME1 codex according to the ME2 codex armor is not as helpful as was principally though and shields/barriers do all the work. That's what the codex says, that's what the devs say, and thats what gameplay proves.

People talk about how "unrealistic" she is now. I say she is more realistic now and they don't understand what realism means. It means acting like a real person. If that means slightly changing her views on things like work and a desire to prove herself then so be it. If you stop talking to your best friend for 3 years and try to rekindle a friendship you too will be surprised at how much they changed. I know for a fact that neither me nor my friends dress or act the same way we did 3 years ago.

[Wulfram]

Nohvarr wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Battlefield armour is not fashion.

But it does change and advance. If I told you that Ashley's new suit was a type of new combat armor (liquid Body Armor?) that allowed for maximum protection via new construction techniques, without sacrificing mobility, what woul you say then? What if she bought this suit with her own money, because that's what her old commander used to do to get the good stuff?

I'd be glad to have at least some explanation.  But then I'd ask why Kaidan and Liara, for example, who wore light armour in ME1 got bulkier armour rather than this snazzy new stuff.

Ashley was the only party member other than Shepard who could wear Heavy Armour in the first game.  Now she appears to be the most lightly armoured.  It's like if Isabela turned up wearing Full Plate for DA3

[DieHigh2012]

After DA2 (when BioWare proved to me that they can make mistakes) this does actually cause me to worry a bit. Ash better be the same great gal she was in ME1, or I'm going to be pretty dang angry.

With that said it is way to early for the "she's a totally different person" stuff. I like her hair, being tough does not mean a person will never use a comb...

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 09 juin 2011 - 10:36 .

[mopotter]

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

I understand the argument that people find it to be a character "derailment" but judging a girl by how she dresses is not only an insult to Bioware but also women in general. If she opened her mouth and it didn't feel like Ashley then yes, she changed, but so far her lips hadn't even moved and she only showed up in ONE screenshot/concept art and THREE seconds of footage.

I alwasy knew her hair was long, she wore it in a bun.  The only problem I have is when your fighting, aiming a gun, or other exciting fun things, long hair like her's can get in your eyes and make it hard to see.  

If we have armor with helmets, it won't bother me to see her hair down on the ship, in fact that's sort of nice.  But if she has her hair down in battle, it's another spot I'll need to wish I had a pc copy instead of a 360.  With pc, someone will eventually make a mod, with anything else, stuck with what we get.  

[Nohvarr]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd be glad to have at least some explanation.  But then I'd ask why Kaidan and Liara, for example, who wore light armour in ME1 got bulkier armour rather than this snazzy new stuff.

Actually all that bulkyness might just be to protect biotic enhancements/amps sealed in their armor. If memeory serves you could buy armor that improved your biotics in ME 2. So Kaiden and Liara purchase that, which makes the overall armor they are wearing bulkier to protect them and the biotic enhancement gear.

[Breakdown Boy]

I don't understand the loose hair. It is totally at odds with Ash's character. She's 100% soldier not a femme fatale/ agent like Miranda.

I guess she got jealous when Shep showed up on Horizon with Miranda and figured she had to change her look.

[Oblivious]

mopotter wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

I understand the argument that people find it to be a character "derailment" but judging a girl by how she dresses is not only an insult to Bioware but also women in general. If she opened her mouth and it didn't feel like Ashley then yes, she changed, but so far her lips hadn't even moved and she only showed up in ONE screenshot/concept art and THREE seconds of footage.

I alwasy knew her hair was long, she wore it in a bun.  The only problem I have is when your fighting, aiming a gun, or other exciting fun things, long hair like her's can get in your eyes and make it hard to see. 

Then female Shepard should only have 2 hairstyles: Ashley's original bun and Jack's bald because every other style either falls on her face or is precariously dangerous of doing so. Even the default Jane Shepard runs that risk and she too is a soldier. If it's really so painfully difficult to imagine females with shoulder-length hair fighting then no Shepard should have anything longer than her ear unless tied in a bun. Even Chakwas' hair runs the risk of clouding her vision and vision for a combat doctor is more important than vision for a soldier.

[Manic Sheep]

Oblivious wrote...
So rather than be realistic in that clothes don't make the person you'd rather they strive to fulfill a stereotype? If a person wears a T-shirt, jeans, running shoes every day and never comb their hair they can't possibly be smart. If a person dresses in black just because they like black they have to be gothic. If somebody wears muscle shirts and running shorts they must be muscle heads with no sophistication. And, of course, if you wear a collared tucked-in shirt and glasses you must be a weak nerd.

The days when appearance and personality went hand-in-hand are long gone. The days when you could easily pick out the poor and the rich by how they dress or when everybody falls into a nice little high school stereotype have long since died out. First appearances are important and Bioware fulfilled that in ME 1, but if 3 years later she is still wearing the same hair, the same armor, the same shoes then Bioware has committed a bigger sin than changing her personality a bit. They have denied her any character development and shown how static she is as a character unlike Liara, Garrus, and Tali who evolved with the plot.

 You shouldn't judge on appearance within reason. You turn up to clean dog kennels in your best suit and tie it’s not going to look like you have allot common sense and I can't exactly say oh I'm not fussy when it comes to my appearance if I dress in a very fussy way and put on a ton of makeup every day.

Oblivious wrote...
Do you judge people based on how they dress, even in combat zones? Seen any pictures of actual soldiers, both historical and modern, and none of this hollywood BS that people are fed? Some soldiers have facial hair despite it being against regulations, some have unkempt or long hair, some wear hats when they should be wearing helmets. Some wear shorts even in potential combat zones, some smoke despite the dangers, some wear comfortable shoes rather than heavy boots. There is even less uniformity if you look at historical troops.
Ashley isn't the same "I gotta redeem my family name and have to work 3x as hard to do it" person. She has redeemed her family. She has been promoted to officer. She is the 2nd human spectre. I don't want her to run around with the same hair and the same armor and the same personality talking about how she still has to work 3x harder than anybody else. .

Didn’t say she need the same armour and the same hair or not have grown as a character at all but it should stay fairly constant with the first one instead of being complete different. Garrus and Tali change appearance to mark growth as a character but never lost their basic feel.

Oblivious wrote...
Does this mean high heels? No. Does this mean long hair? No. Does this mean a cat suit? No. But she has none of those things and despite any mistakes on Bioware's part in the ME1 codex according to the ME2 codex armor is not as helpful as was principally though and shields/barriers do all the work. That's what the codex says, that's what the devs say, and thats what gameplay proves.

Then why do other soldiers get bulkier armour? Shepard gets armour, Zaeed gets armour, Grunt gets armour, Garrus gets armour, the Mercs wear armour, Kaidan now wears armor, Cerberus troops wear armour but Ashley for some reason dose not. The armour is there for a lore perspective to catch bullets that were slowed down but weren’t completely stopped by your shield. If they are going to play the armour is useless now card then they should chuck the armour for everybody not at a whim on certain characters.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 09 juin 2011 - 11:09 .

[LightningSamus]

She looks so much better than the last two games.

[Ziggy]

Oblivious wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

3 years later a girl changes her hair and fashion tastes... KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURN THE WITCH!

I understand the argument that people find it to be a character "derailment" but judging a girl by how she dresses is not only an insult to Bioware but also women in general. If she opened her mouth and it didn't feel like Ashley then yes, she changed, but so far her lips hadn't even moved and she only showed up in ONE screenshot/concept art and THREE seconds of footage.

I alwasy knew her hair was long, she wore it in a bun.  The only problem I have is when your fighting, aiming a gun, or other exciting fun things, long hair like her's can get in your eyes and make it hard to see. 

Then female Shepard should only have 2 hairstyles: Ashley's original bun and Jack's bald because every other style either falls on her face or is precariously dangerous of doing so. Even the default Jane Shepard runs that risk and she too is a soldier. If it's really so painfully difficult to imagine females with shoulder-length hair fighting then no Shepard should have anything longer than her ear unless tied in a bun. Even Chakwas' hair runs the risk of clouding her vision and vision for a combat doctor is more important than vision for a soldier.

Umm, no it isn't - if you're a doctor you've got time to put it behind your ears and it's likely to stay there since you're not doing much. Besides, we never actually see Chakwas doing doctor stuff.

But if you're a soldier and you have to stop shooting to get hair out of your face you're likely to die.

Modifié par Em23, 09 juin 2011 - 11:16 .

[Oblivious]

Manic Sheep wrote...

 You shouldn't judge on appearance within reason. You turn up to clean dog kennels in your best suit and tie it’s not going to look like you have allot common sense and I can't exactly say oh I'm not fussy when it comes to my appearance if I dress in a very fussy way and put on a ton of makeup every day.

Those are the other end of the spectrum as the most extreme cases but people still do that. Does it make sense? No but people do it and Ashley dressing in a lighter outfit does not imply that she is anywhere on the same level as those people.

You are expecting a world where everybody dresses the same way they act and where logic defines everything. Where if you dress as a nerd you are a nerd, you dress as a goth you are a goth, you dress as a skater you are a skater, you dress as a cop you are a cop. Where every officer carries a badge, every hippie has the peace sign on there shirt, where everybody with messy hair and jeans is a stoner. You want life to make sense. It doesn't. I can wear a suit all I want but I'm not a politician, rich, nor overtly sophisticated. I wear a suit because I like it and I feel good doing it. Does that make me illogical or shallow? No, it makes me human.

If people want games to fit a stereotype (Jack) or be eyecandy (Miranda) then that's they're right. Just don't hide it behind a mask of "Realism."

Didn’t say she need the same armour and the same hair or not have grown as a character at all but it should stay fairly constant with the first one instead of being complete different. Garrus and Tali change appearance to mark growth as a character but never lost their basic feel.

How do you tell Turians apart? I can't. I don't know any difference between a Turian now and a Turian 3 years ago. Same for Quarians who have no visible differentiating marks. Garrus has no hair, no nails, nothing to show he so much as aged physically and Tali may have those but they obviously don't show up. Those limited just how much Bioware can demonstrate the growth of the characters aside from personality.

Ashley and Kaidan do have hair. Ashley let hers down and Kaidan has gray in his. Ashley and Kaidan do possess the same shallow tendencies of all humans. Unlike the pragmatic and militaristic Turians, humans have fashion sense and Bioware took advantage of it. Ashley opted for blue high tech lightweight gear while Kaidan went for blue heavy armor. Why? I don't know. If we're lucky they'll explain it in-game. If not then we'll just assume the characters had a change of taste. Liara changes clothes literally more than any character, even wearing a dress at one point. She tossed her old scientist uniform out the window and went for something more pragmatic to demonstrate she's a more pragmatic person. Is this bad? No.

Then why do other soldiers get bulkier armour? Shepard gets armour, Zaeed gets armour, Grunt gets armour, Garrus gets armour, the Mercs wear armour, Kaidan now wears armor, Cerberus troops wear armour but Ashley for some reason dose not. The armour is there for a lore perspective to catch bullets that were slowed down but weren’t completely stopped by your shield. If they are going to play the armour is useless now card then they should chuck the armour for everybody not at a whim on certain characters.

I agree they should indeed throw everyone's armor out the airlock. Unfortunately as a consumer I only have so much influence on how they designed the game, but according to the devs all armor does is change the strength of the shields/barriers so let's merely assume that Ashley is wearing some extremely advanced and high tech gear similar to Miranda's alternate appearance pack. I made a post about this back in page 39 I think.

According to the Codex armor isn't really very important. There are two
layers to armor: an inner fabric which produces the kinetic shields and
an outer ceramic layer for objects that are too slow to activate the
shields. It seems like Ashley is simply wearing the first, most
important, layer.

In ME1 armor was important when it shouldn't
have been but they fixed that in ME2 where armor was just something for
enemies on higher difficulties due to gameplay reasons,
vehicles/Harbinger, and customization. Bioware screwed up in ME1 by
giving the perception that armor really was capable of stopping a clip
of powerful bullets going at the speed of light and they screwed up in
ME 2 by giving the perception that it was safe to have no armor.

I
think that Ashley's new look finds a nice middle-ground between the two
concepts but they failed yet again by giving Kaidan "Heavy" armor
rather than the same suit design as Ashley. I either want them to make
Ashley's gear look similar to Miranda's AAP (which looked very advanced)
or strip down Kaidan's gear to something lighter.

Remember guys,
in ME2 armor was nearly useless. Only certain characters (Shepard,
Zaeed, Garrus, Jacob, and Grunt) wore armor but only Grunt acquired any
benefits from it. If you look at the main menu you will see there is no
third bar for when Shepard loses his shields, there's only health and
shield/barrier depending on whether the character is a biotic. This
makes the most sense since that armor seems more similar to a modern
helmet than Kevlar: something meant to stop shrapnel not bullets. For
example: at the end of Project Overlord when the scientist shoots
Shepard in the face at point blank with a pistol it's the shield which
saves Shepard's life. Not some helmet he may or may not be wearing.

Like
I said, story-wise everyone in this universe should be running around
in "cat-suits" since ceramic armor is heavy and doesn't add much but if
Bioware is really so set on having males wear armor and females not then
they should at least upgrade all the female armor to look like
Miranda's AAP and explain it ingame as advanced experimental gear.

Em23 wrote...

Umm, no it isn't - if you're a doctor you've got time to put it
behind your ears and it's likely to stay there since you're not doing
much. Besides, we never actually see Chakwas doing doctor stuff.

But if you're a soldier and you have to stop shooting to get hair out of your face you're likely to die.

I admit the Chakwas thing wasn't the best example but neither was it meant to be the driving force behind my post. The driving force was how femshep should either be bald or have a bun if everybody is so concerned about practicality. Shepard, male or female, paragon or renegade, is pure 100% soldier and is treated as such. Their entire life is based around combat and war. They have infinitely more combat experience than Ashley does but most fem shep hairstyles are also dangerous.

Modifié par Oblivious, 09 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[Babli]

Congratulations BiowEAr, you ruined Ashley for me. Thanks.

[Massadonious1]

Oh, I see, it's because BioWare has E and A in their name, though not in that order. That's pretty clever.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 09 juin 2011 - 11:59 .

[Babli]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Oh, I see, it's because BioWare has E and A in their name, though not in that order. That's pretty clever.

Oh you noticed, thats even more clever.

Its just that I like pre-EA Bioware. But they are gone.

Modifié par Babli, 09 juin 2011 - 12:05 .