2247 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Nice summary, Prince.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't care, yet they continue to waste their time bashing the character. : /

It is obvious for me that these are trolls.

[LPPrince]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Nice summary, Prince.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't care, yet they continue to waste their time bashing the character. : /

Yeah, I know. Then again, when I get going on something I'm passionate about, it tends to get drawn out for a while.

I think I did pretty good there. Hopefully people will remember that post and quote it every time someone brings up her supposedly being a racist.

[LPPrince]

Sylvianus wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Nice summary, Prince.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't care, yet they continue to waste their time bashing the character. : /

It is obvious for me that these are trolls.

Not trolls. Just people who didn't give enough time to the character to understand them.

[Temaperacl]

Amazing how people are freaking out over a 2 second appearance in a gameplay clip.

I think it is quite reasonable for people to react based on all the information they have gotten so far, even if it is not alot. Magazine picture + short gameplay snippet is not enough to form an angry mob, but in my opinion it certainly enough to start expressing concern when they seem to show a problem.    But you seem to disagree, so I would ask - how much information do you think should be required before people start having issues with what they see?

Jumping to conclusions happens a lot around here. Its still early. People need to be patient and wait for more information to trickle out. Or they could just go on a media blackout and hope for the best 9 months later.

I would ask you the same question - how much information should come out before people start having objections to what they see?  If people have an issue with what they are seeing and bring it up early then it stands a much better chance of being adressed than if it is brought up later.  And if nobody mentions anything until after the product is out, then by definition it won't be changed or taken into account in time for the release.


For the record, I am not a big fan of the changes I have seen so far.  The armor seems reasonable to me except that it should be closed up at the top instead of being left open like that. I prefer the look of the hardsuit armors myself, but there is enough in-game history of the "thick-cloth" type medium armors to be reasonable.  That hair (in a combat situation) is the part that stands out as a problem for me.  Partly because I don't like that hair style in general, but also because it doesn't make any sense (as many other people have stated in this thread). 

Is it possible that it is only at the start and casual and the rest of the time she uses sensible styling for her hair (and maybe heavier armor)? Sure. But we haven't had any information that even implies that yet.

Modifié par Temaperacl, 09 juin 2011 - 03:09 .

[TobiTobsen]

It's called the Samara phenomenon.

"Na... that's not her combat armor. Just something casual. Why are you all freaking out?"

[Ahriman]

LPPrince wrote...

I can't remember what developer said it, but he DID say that people were misconstruing her words and that she is not in fact a racist.

I feel bad that the quote got lost in the shuffle, but then again that had to be over a year ago and hardly anyone saw it.

Of course she wasn't supposed to be a racist. All ME characters don't have flaws if you look more carefully. Not even a single jerk, can you believe it? No fanatics, racists, sexists and politicians in Shepard's crew. Rather boring if you ask me.
P.s. Looks like Casey has a great opportunity to close this thread because of another racist/non-racist discussion.

Modifié par Wizz, 09 juin 2011 - 03:12 .

[Sylvianus]

LPPrince wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Nice summary, Prince.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't care, yet they continue to waste their time bashing the character. : /

It is obvious for me that these are trolls.

Not trolls. Just people who didn't give enough time to the character to understand them.

Maybe. <_< The problem is that I can not believe this. Whenever I see someone trying to make a big explanation about Ashley. It gives this example and this kind of discuss. 

" Ashley is racist ! "

- Why ?

- Because she's racist.

- Okay.

* explanation for dummies *

- I don't care what you said, I just like to think she's racist, even if she isn't. So she's racist.

 

Never-cons argument based on the game to respond, never justifications with solid elements  that could push the person to state his mind.

[Xeranx]

Oblivious wrote...

People talk about how "unrealistic" she is now. I say she is more realistic now and they don't understand what realism means. It means acting like a real person. If that means slightly changing her views on things like work and a desire to prove herself then so be it. If you stop talking to your best friend for 3 years and try to rekindle a friendship you too will be surprised at how much they changed. I know for a fact that neither me nor my friends dress or act the same way we did 3 years ago.

Would that change mean an abandonment of staunch practical values in regards to combat?  I stated again that her hair being the way it is during a combat situation goes against her practical nature as defined in ME.  She would have found some way to make sure her hair is out of her face.  That it's not done is unrealistic.  People have come up with "but she's a Spectre now and doesn't have to follow Alliance protocol".  Who's to say that what she was following was Alliance protocol to begin with?  

In the first game, female Shepard can have hair that comes down to her chin in combat.  This is before she becomes a Spectre.  So what Alliance protocol allows for female Shepard to wear her hair anyway she wants, but requires that Ashley keeps her hair in a bun?

[Predi1988]

I don't really care how she looks, mainly because she's dead in most of my playthroughs. I find her boring, and frustrating. But I think the release of the game is pretty much far away, so BW can make a combat armor for her, if they don't have one already. Anyways the phoenix armor and Ashley togather is an icon by now so....

[theelementslayer]

TobiTobsen wrote...

It's called the Samara phenomenon.

"Na... that's not her combat armor. Just something casual. Why are you all freaking out?"

I dont know why people always hate on samara for her outfit. She has barriers, which are biotic, which she makes, and then when those are down she goes down quick. I know, I love her warp ability and AR usage.

Anyways on topic. Its not that I think Ashley is a bigot or "racist" its just that she doesnt like aliens, or accept them as much as the next person. Sure I sympathize but when your working to kill the reapers, the big bad enemy of the state, sometimes no matter how hard it might feel, you need to put away your feelings. She is a soldier, she should listen to orders, and not get mad because she has to work with someone she might not like. Everyone has to, its part of life. We wish we didnt but we have to.

[LPPrince]

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

[TobiTobsen]

theelementslayer wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

It's called the Samara phenomenon.

"Na... that's not her combat armor. Just something casual. Why are you all freaking out?"

I dont know why people always hate on samara for her outfit. She has barriers, which are biotic, which she makes, and then when those are down she goes down quick. I know, I love her warp ability and AR usage.

It wasn't meant as hate. I just use the reaction people on this forum had to Samaras, Mirandas or Jacks outfit before the release of ME and copare them to the arguments now

[theelementslayer]

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

[Xeranx]

LPPrince wrote...

I can't remember what developer said it, but he DID say that people were misconstruing her words and that she is not in fact a racist.

I feel bad that the quote got lost in the shuffle, but then again that had to be over a year ago and hardly anyone saw it.

That was her writer Chris L'Etoile.

Amitar wrote...

*Speciesism.

It's racism.  Humans are a race.  Turians are a race.  Salarians are a race.  Asari are a race.  Krogan are a race.  Vorcha are a race.  Elcor are a race.  Batarians are a race.  Hanar are a race.  Drell are a race.  That Magog-looking Shadow Broker is a race.

Regardless of whether you're black, brown, yellow, red, or white if a Batarian wanted to take you out you're human first.  Period.  Color and/or ethnicity are a distant second.

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

She said something to the effect of "I don't think we should trust these aliens with our ship's systems".  She didn't say she didn't like aliens.  That was some kludge of writing in ME2.

Modifié par Xeranx, 09 juin 2011 - 03:22 .

[LPPrince]

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

Ahh, there's the point about the trust issues again. She wasn't necessarily mad or angry, she was just apprehensive and not trusting. Hence Shepard trying to fix that about her(if you wanted to).

[LPPrince]

Xeranx wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I can't remember what developer said it, but he DID say that people were misconstruing her words and that she is not in fact a racist.

I feel bad that the quote got lost in the shuffle, but then again that had to be over a year ago and hardly anyone saw it.

That was her writer Chris L'Etoile.

Ahh, thanks. You must be one of the few who saw it. By any chance(slim), have a link?

[Nerevar-as]

theelementslayer wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

It's called the Samara phenomenon.

"Na... that's not her combat armor. Just something casual. Why are you all freaking out?"

I dont know why people always hate on samara for her outfit. She has barriers, which are biotic, which she makes, and then when those are down she goes down quick. I know, I love her warp ability and AR usage.

Yeah, I can see Shepard looking at the female squadies and deciding that it´s more important they look hot than have as much protection as possible in a mission involving the Reapers. Miranda´s Alt App was money well spent.

About Ashley, shes a cynic, and her speciesm is part of that, rather than a prejudice against aliens just by being aliens. It was quite funny the playthrough I had paragoned her and she kind of defended the Council after the Normandy was grounded.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 09 juin 2011 - 03:23 .

[Xeranx]

LPPrince wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I can't remember what developer said it, but he DID say that people were misconstruing her words and that she is not in fact a racist.

I feel bad that the quote got lost in the shuffle, but then again that had to be over a year ago and hardly anyone saw it.

That was her writer Chris L'Etoile.

Ahh, thanks. You must be one of the few who saw it. By any chance(slim), have a link?

It was on the old boards.  I'll see if I can find it.

[Temaperacl]

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

Unless we are talking about something different, that conversation always came across to me about having problems with them [non-alliance personnel] having full run of the most advanced Alliance ship in the fleet, not an objection to working with them personally.  It always seemed she would have had the same objection to non-alliance humans (a Merc, for example) having the amount of access to the ship that Garrus/Tali/Wrex had.

Modifié par Temaperacl, 09 juin 2011 - 03:24 .

[theelementslayer]

LPPrince wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

Ahh, there's the point about the trust issues again. She wasn't necessarily mad or angry, she was just apprehensive and not trusting. Hence Shepard trying to fix that about her(if you wanted to).

Mayhaps, I took it as a bit of both, xenophobia and apprehensiveness. Though she did insult my liara and i didnt like that. However those are her feelings, I never tried to change them for her, and she is alive (always felt fitting the kaiden would want to go down in a blaze of glory), and I am excited to see her. Im not saying I hated her I just got the impression that she was a touch (if not a lot) of a xenophobe.

[Sylvianus]

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

Ashley is just anxious to see the most sophisticated military spacecraft spied on by aliens. Do you think a U.S. Marine  would be happy to see a Chinese guest unofficial manner on an aircraft carrier secret ?

Of course not. She never said she didn't want to work with aliens.

It's patriotism, not racism. And I remember you that humanity has no allies in M1. 

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 juin 2011 - 03:28 .

[Antivenger]

Temaperacl wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

Unless we are talking about something different, that conversation always came across to me about having problems with them [non-alliance personnel] having full run of the most advanced Alliance ship in the fleet, not an objection to working with them personally.  It always seemed she would have had the same objection to non-alliance humans (a Merc, for example) having the amount of access to the ship that Garrus/Tali/Wrex had.

As a side note, she never mentions Tali. Shepard personally took Garrus and Wrex under his command, but Udina ordered Shepard to take Tali, so she can't say anything about it. Just more evidence that she doesn't have a problem with Garrus and Wrex the aliens, but Garrus and Wrex the civilians.

Modifié par Antivenger, 09 juin 2011 - 03:28 .

[Iwantobelieve]

Was Ashley genetically modified like Miranda ? Her boobs and ass tell me she did.

[DetailedSubset]

Xeranx wrote...

Amitar wrote...

*Speciesism.

It's racism.  Humans are a race.  Turians are a race.  Salarians are a race.  Asari are a race.  Krogan are a race.  Vorcha are a race.  Elcor are a race.  Batarians are a race.  Hanar are a race.  Drell are a race.  That Magog-looking Shadow Broker is a race.

Regardless of whether you're black, brown, yellow, red, or white if a Batarian wanted to take you out you're human first.  Period.  Color and/or ethnicity are a distant second.

Race refers to secondary classifications within a species not different species. Chimpanzee is not a race and neither is Turian.

[Temaperacl]

Antivenger wrote...

Temaperacl wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Since when was Ashley ever mad that she was working with aliens? I don't remember that.

When she talked about it in ME1. She was like I dont like these aliens on the ship. I know your commander, and I will follow your orders but let me say that I dont like it.

Unless we are talking about something different, that conversation always came across to me about having problems with them [non-alliance personnel] having full run of the most advanced Alliance ship in the fleet, not an objection to working with them personally.  It always seemed she would have had the same objection to non-alliance humans (a Merc, for example) having the amount of access to the ship that Garrus/Tali/Wrex had.

As a side note, she never mentions Tali. Shepard personally took Garrus and Wrex under his command, but Udina ordered Shepard to take Tali, so she can't say anything about it. Just more evidence that she doesn't have a problem with Garrus and Wrex the aliens, but Garrus and Wrex the civilians.

Good point - I remembered that she only mentioned 2 of the 3, but I couldn't remember which 2.