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[Nashiktal]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

@Nashiktal Sorry if my Tali comment offended you, but....oh well.

But anyway I tend to see tramp as skimpy high-heeled boots, skirts that don't reach vulva, and enough make-up to paint a clown's face over again. Ashely meets none of this requirements un/fortunately....

She looks sexy, beautiful....and I'm sure even more so with her independent personality.

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with Tali. I was just pointing how different people have different tastes.

In any case my arguments around Ashley and her new style was never based upon my taste in looks, but with her character.

Well, excuse me....Your post started with a repeat of what I said about Tali....one can only assume.

And what about her character says she can't look like she does? I don't see it....

I did that to point out how there are differences in taste. I like Tali yeah, but I don't care that others don't. Everyone likes what they like.

Still we have had many pages explaining why Ashley wouldn't wear what she is wearing based on her character. Would she wear that catsuit during casual time? Maybe. But during the war to decide the fate of EVERYTHING? No.

[Bluko]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

You guys are being too conservative for a gaming forum. If they don't include a heavy space suit for ashley, than use your imagination and pretend she has one until a DLC comes out.

Please don't give Bioware ideas. To me nothing is more insulting then when Bioware could give squadmates the option for different armor/outfits in the original game, but opts to instead "nickel and dime" fans for every conceivable bit of extra content.

And Ashley should be sporting some kind of plated armor. Why not make what she currently wears one of her DLC outfits?

Modifié par Bluko, 09 juin 2011 - 09:07 .

[Sora Shepard]

In all honesty, I think the reason Ashley had her hair in a bun in the first place was more for technical reasons (i.e., difficulty animating long hairstyles) than because there was any sort of coded message in her hairstyle. I don't mind her hair being down, as long as it appears to be a somewhat realistic 'do, not a runway-style blowout (for the men, look up "blowout" if you don't know what I'm talking about). I know, I know, "realistic 'do" and "Bioware" don't really go together, but hey... a girl can dream.

As a female player, I don't mind female characters being attractive. There is nothing wrong with pretty people, and I remember one of my biggest frustrations when starting ME2 (I played ME2 before I found ME1) was that I couldn't make myself prettier than Miranda. (Thank you, Mass Effect Faces DB. Without you, I would have played all the way through looking like Michael Jackson.) That said, I don't particularly like being reminded that I "don't belong here," which is how I feel when I try to play, well, most video games, which appear to be specifically designed for 17 year old boys. And that's how characters like Miranda come across to me, because she was obviously designed specifically to be ogled by 17 year old boys. Yeah, they gave her a backstory to make it sort of plausible, but I have a feeling the character design came first and then the backstory was shoehorned onto her so that it wouldn't seem TOO much like pandering. (DISCLAIMER: I went through most of ME2 not being able to stand Miranda, not because she was better looking than me -- which she wasn't once I went and found some decent face code -- but because she was constantly telling me what to do. Um, I thought I was in charge here? Whose ship is this anyway? I digress.)

I guess you could argue that Jacob was designed the same way as Miranda, with female players in mind, but given that you have to sexually harass him in an exceedingly creepy manner to have a "paragon" conversation with him, I cannot believe that a woman or anyone who understands normal women had anything to do with designing/writing that character or any associated dialogue. I found the relationship with Kaidan in ME1 to be much more realistic, more satisfying, and more likely to appeal to female players (it certainly did to me -- it felt very natural, and if Kaidan were a real person, I would definitely have been attracted to him). The whole Jacob thing is what happens when game designers assume that women think like men. The Miranda thing is what happens when they assume that all players (male or female) think like stereotypical teenage boys.

I like Ashley (and FemShep) because nothing about her seems like pandering. She is who she is, take it or leave it. Some of the male players didn't think she was very attractive? I know she wouldn't give a ****, and I love that. Like I said, I'm not going to pass judgment based on a few snippets of gameplay footage, and I hope everyone's concerns are unfounded when it comes to this game -- but they don't come out of nowhere. Ashley (and FemShep) are (were?) very unique characters when it comes to gaming. They made me feel like I, as an adult woman, had a place at the table. I hope they stay that way!

Modifié par Sora Shepard, 09 juin 2011 - 09:11 .

[_purifico_]

Still is as ugly as hell. I'll pass. oh, wait, she's dead anyway. Problem solved.

[Nashiktal]

Montezuma IV wrote...

@Nashiktal

I thought it had nothing to do with Tali Just ignore that....

Well, the Ashley I'm seeing didn't have a preferred view on how she wants to look. I don't recall her ever saying anything about it, either. We can make assumptions but Characters are characters and they develop over time.

She makes fun of skimpy sci-fi cliche's early on, and laughs at how Asari commando's wear light armor during combat.

[Iakus]

KBomb wrote...
I mean the Ashley who joined the Alliance and followed the regulatons so much so that she broke the rules by sleeping with her commanding officer, knowing that doing so could further demote her status and that of her militray family if caught.
The same Ashley that was loyal the Alliance so much so that she decided to mutiny and follow Shepard into the unknown to do what she thought was right.

Yes.

They were already fugitives from the Alliance and Citadel both, and likely about to die.  Extreme circumstances and extreme emotional state leads to...odd judgement calls.  In fact, Ash's apology letter seems to imply thats the only time they slept together.

And yes, She and Shepard commited mutiny because the Council and Udina's actions were gonna cause the end of galactic civilization.  Her actions saved the Alliance.

How do these actions taken under extreme circumstances justify an extreme wardrobe change 2-3 years later?

No need to quote me the things she said in the very first Mass Effect, I remember it well. This strong, confidant person we know is a woman of her own, right? She doesn’t need anyone telling her how to dress, or wear her hair. She is her own person and can decide to live how she wishes. Unless someone doesn’t approve of how she now decides to dress or wear her hair! I am perfectly happy with how I look, and who I am too. Doesn’t mean I wear the same style and hair for years. Who is saying she still isn’t the strong, confidant, and stubborn woman she always was? l

Because in Bioware games, appearance reflects character.

And Ash is a strong, confident woman.  So was Miranda.  So was Liara.  So was Samara.   But she's also a soldier.  She's still Alliance (apparently a Lieutenant now) and thus still military.  But now she doesn't even seem to have a proper neck seal for a helmet.  

She doesn't need anyone telling her how to dress.  But her actions in ME1 give us a pretty good idea how she would dress.  That is, if the writers chose to remain consistent.  

Armor i what keeps you alive when batarians are shooting at you or husks are slopping you around.  Ash likes thick armor because she can't outrun bullets.  Armor isn't fashion.  At least, it wasn't.

[diskoh]

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

[Nashiktal]

diskoh wrote...

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

Didn't read much of the thread did ya?

[Nashiktal]

Montezuma IV wrote...

diskoh wrote...

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

Agreed. Personality may not reflect style. Do not be fooled.

Style? I think you are missing the argument. The argument is for how ashley would prep for battle, not how she would dress during casual time. 

[Iakus]

diskoh wrote...

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

Perhaps.  But it's how the games work

Why does Miranda wear tight clothing?

Why does Garrus have battle damaged armor?

Why does Jack have tattoos?

Why does Grunt have blue eyes?

The outfits are not chosen randomly.  They reflect aspects of the characters.  Samara was supposed to give off a "mystic warrior" vibe.  Tali's ME2 outfit was designed to make her look more mature than her ME1 outfit.

So what purpose does it serve to make Ash look less like an Alliance Marine-turned Spectre, as compared to previous examples of Spectres?  And Kaidan more like a walking tank?

[Nashiktal]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

diskoh wrote...

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

Agreed. Personality may not reflect style. Do not be fooled.

Style? I think you are missing the argument. The argument is for how ashley would prep for battle, not how she would dress during casual time. 

She'd prep exactly how I would...In style.

Its like you never played ME1, or you never botherd to talk to Ashley.

[GreedIgnored]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yeah I think that's supposed to be Ash. Looks she's had some cosmetic surgery. God knows she needed it.

*ACTIVATE FLAMESHIELD*

Agreed... never let her lived. But now it's like they made her a total hoe.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

iakus wrote...

diskoh wrote...

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

Perhaps.  But it's how the games work

Why does Miranda wear tight clothing?

Why does Garrus have battle damaged armor?

Why does Jack have tattoos?

Why does Grunt have blue eyes?

The outfits are not chosen randomly.  They reflect aspects of the characters.  Samara was supposed to give off a "mystic warrior" vibe.  Tali's ME2 outfit was designed to make her look more mature than her ME1 outfit.

So what purpose does it serve to make Ash look less like an Alliance Marine-turned Spectre, as compared to previous examples of Spectres?  And Kaidan more like a walking tank?

I've been repeating this for ages, and people keep coming up with the same counter to it.

It's like talking to my autistic cousin.

[diskoh]

Nashiktal wrote...

diskoh wrote...

This idea that a certain kind of person has to look and dress a certain way is extraordinarily antiquated.

Didn't read much of the thread did ya?

I read almost every word of it. It's full of a bunch of "Ashley is x so she has to dress x."

[Nashiktal]

Montezuma IV wrote...

@Nashiktal lol - I've played ME1 + ME2. I'm sorry if I don't recall most of the thing she said word by word...but I know damn sure she did not put a limitation on what her style would be. ME1 was very repetitious in human looks, like before stated, so I understand why you would judge her solely on her personality.....

But in ME3 there's a lot more individuality so far as I can see....and Ashley is expressing it. Tough and Beautiful. Her outfit covers her whole body...if you think that's skimpy you need to go to a strip club.

Limitation? She constantly talks about her marine background, she talks about how she prefers heavy armor and bigs guns, she talks about how being a marine is in her blood, she talks about how being a marine is important to her and her family...

Come on, if you played ME1, you would know its not about limitations. Its about her character, and what she would wear when helping to save humanity.

She doesn't dress for "style" when it comes to combat or war. She dresses for battle, wearing whatever can stop the most bullets as she tears up the battlefield.

Cleavage does not stop bullets, no matter what kind of perv told you that.

[MegaBadExample]

_purifico_ wrote...

Still is as ugly as hell. I'll pass. oh, wait, she's dead anyway. Problem solved.

Hater. I can see why people might not like her. But to say "She's ugly as hell." C'mon get a grip she's a character.

[Iakus]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

I've been repeating this for ages, and people keep coming up with the same counter to it.

It's like talking to my autistic cousin.

The problem in this case is the new look contradicts her attitude in the previous game.

It's almost like people think the series started with ME2...Nah, that couldn't be it.

So anyway, what is the answer to the question:

What purpose does it serve to make Ash look less like an Alliance Marine-turned Spectre, as compared to previous examples of Spectres?  And Kaidan more like a walking tank?

[KBomb]

iakus wrote...


How do these actions taken under extreme circumstances justify an extreme wardrobe change 2-3 years later?

I guess that depends on what you see as extreme. I don’t see it as extreme. I see it as a slight change in style.
And if armor wasn’t meant to be stylish, how come she wasn’t wearing the black armor in style with Jenkins and Kaidan, even after she became part of the Normandy? Pink and white? Smells like style to me.

Because in Bioware games, appearance reflects character.

And Ash is a strong, confident woman.  So was Miranda.  So was Liara.  So was Samara.   But she's also a soldier.  She's still Alliance (apparently a Lieutenant now) and thus still military.  But now she doesn't even seem to have a proper neck seal for a helmet.  

She doesn't need anyone telling her how to dress.  But her actions in ME1 give us a pretty good idea how she would dress.  That is, if the writers chose to remain consistent.  

Armor i what keeps you alive when batarians are shooting at you or husks are slopping you around.  Ash likes thick armor because she can't outrun bullets.  Armor isn't fashion.  At least, it wasn't.

Funny thing, my Shepard couldn’t outrun bullets either. I did fine in light armor. Heavy armor didn’t help out all those Eclipse and Blue Sun agents that I slaughtered either, they went down just like the rest.

And her actions in ME1 told me how she dressed then, in that situation. Her actions also told me that she could change her mind based on what was going on around her. Her clothing in ME3 isn’t going to make me see her differently because she decided to change her style. People used to like fanny packs because they were functional and utilitarian. Thank god minds changed on that one.

Modifié par KBomb, 09 juin 2011 - 09:56 .