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iakus wrote...
We're on the same side of a topic? The Earth is doomed!
KBomb wrote...
I can understand the bolded statement and sympathize with it. I hope they don’t change her either. I loved her character for what it was. I am not a fan of heavy armor on any character, but that is my preference. .
Badpie wrote...
eldav wrote...
If they are going to stick with a skin tight "armor" for Ash they are doing that for the sole purpose to attract teenage boys.
In my country we have a saying : if you bow down for the other you are sticking up your ass for the other.
Okay first of all I have no idea what that saying means. In case you haven't noticed a lot of people are saying Ash looks great and sexy and all that and I really don't see a problem with being sexy. Just because an adult woman is sexually attractive doesn't mean it's about the fantasies of pubescent boys. Grown ups like sexy things too and THAT'S OKAY.
ZLurps wrote...
I think that the most important thing in Ashley was that her character was different than most seen about million times heroines in comics, tv-series, movies and video games. BioWare did very well breaking sidekick bimbo stereotype with her character and that was one thing that made ME1 very different kind of experience than other products. As nice bonus, Ashley also provided important contrast in game universe by just being a tomboy and with her remarks of Asari commandos for example.
I at least felt that BioWare really rised the bar in video game writing.
I think people may be bit affraid that element like that is removed from the game. Sexing up every character in game isn't by anymeans anyway ground breaking and there isn't anything new and exciting in that.
iakus wrote...
trobbins777 wrote...
First off, Kaidan was a liutenant in the alliance in ME1, now he's a spectre. Secondly, His armor in ME2 wouldn't be considered light armor. Also, Kaiden is going to have to expose himself alot more firepower in order to use tech and biotic abilities.
As for your second point, like I said before Kaiden is a sentinel, a guard, a defender. Ash on the other hand is a attacker. She needs to be able to move from cover to cover quickly, and get out of danger quickly because she doesn't have tech armor and barriers to fall back on.
There's some evidence pointing to Ash being a Lieutenant in ME3 as well. And they're both Spectres
And...Ash was every bit the attacker in ME1. And could wear heavy armor. She in fact preferred heavy armor.Kaidan was a support character, and wore light. Their combat roles don't seem to have significantly changed. So what has?
The point being, why is heavy armor too good/not good enough for Ash, but is a-okay with Kaidan? Well besides that it makes his shoulders look broader
trobbins777 wrote...
Yes and Kaidan went from lieutenant to staff commander in ME 2 where he wore heavier armor in the scene on Horizon. He might be promoted even further in ME 3, but that's not my point. Ash needs to be alot more mobile than Kaiden. Soldiers need mobility in order to ambush and flank enemies. Where as Kaiden can just curve his biotics and tech abilities around his enemies. Which exposes him and makes him more of a target because of it.
Also, if Ash is wearing spectre gear. I think i can safely say that it will protect her just as much if not more so than any heavy armor in Mass effect 1.
Dude, what?trobbins777 wrote...
iakus wrote...
trobbins777 wrote...
First off, Kaidan was a liutenant in the alliance in ME1, now he's a spectre. Secondly, His armor in ME2 wouldn't be considered light armor. Also, Kaiden is going to have to expose himself alot more firepower in order to use tech and biotic abilities.
As for your second point, like I said before Kaiden is a sentinel, a guard, a defender. Ash on the other hand is a attacker. She needs to be able to move from cover to cover quickly, and get out of danger quickly because she doesn't have tech armor and barriers to fall back on.
There's some evidence pointing to Ash being a Lieutenant in ME3 as well. And they're both Spectres
And...Ash was every bit the attacker in ME1. And could wear heavy armor. She in fact preferred heavy armor.Kaidan was a support character, and wore light. Their combat roles don't seem to have significantly changed. So what has?
The point being, why is heavy armor too good/not good enough for Ash, but is a-okay with Kaidan? Well besides that it makes his shoulders look broader
Yes and Kaidan went from lieutenant to staff commander in ME 2 where he wore heavier armor in the scene on Horizon. He might be promoted even further in ME 3, but that's not my point. Ash needs to be alot more mobile than Kaiden. Soldiers need mobility in order to ambush and flank enemies. Where as Kaiden can just curve his biotics and tech abilities around his enemies. Which exposes him and makes him more of a target because of it.
Also, if Ash is wearing spectre gear. I think i can safely say that it will protect her just as much if not more so than any heavy armor in Mass effect 1.
Modifié par CajNatalie, 10 juin 2011 - 07:31 .
KBomb wrote...
Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
@Badpie
The thing is that a lot of the light and medium armor (Ash never wore light, btw) had visible plates that covered most of the body, there were no "open" parts of the suit, and it actually looked like it served a purpose in battle. Ash's armor in ME3 looks like it serves fashion more than it does as protection in combat, and I really have to question "why" that is.
Artistic license is important, and I respect the character artists for their work, but I also had great respect for Ash as a character and what she represented: a strong, independent military woman who didn't fall for all the bull**** of having to act like others expected her to, and who was practical and highly opinionated... plus, I loved how straightforward and blunt the character was. She was a woman who was more concerned about kicking ass and striving to be at the top of her game, not trying to look sexy...
The new look just feels like a betrayal of her militaristic familial background. I really hope it's not a case of her being all, "Oooh, I'm a Spectre now, I'm allowed to wear whatever I want because I'm soo independent!" That would just seem pathetic and low for her character imo.
Betrayal is a strong word. She can still be all of those things. I’m sure she will be, though I can’t say for sure until we see her in-game and neither can anyone else. If she were the same Ashley, but dressed in that armor for the duration of the game and never changed, would you still lose respect for her? From three screen shots have you come to the conclusion that she would no longer be a strong, independent, self-relied and opinionated woman who had the same ideals and bluntness we’re used to? In the first Mass Effect you could place her in any armor you wanted and she remained the same.
Personally, I would love to return to the old armor system in Mass Effect. It isn’t going to happen and I realized while playing Mass Effect 2, walking around Omega and especially Illium that my Shepard looked out of place being the only one wearing armor. I wished for a lighter armor that would allow for protection and still look less conspicuous. I would have definitely wore some had it been provided and I wouldn’t have seen my Shepard as anything but what she was--a ass-kicker and name-taker.
iakus wrote...
ZLurps wrote...
I think that the most important thing in Ashley was that her character was different than most seen about million times heroines in comics, tv-series, movies and video games. BioWare did very well breaking sidekick bimbo stereotype with her character and that was one thing that made ME1 very different kind of experience than other products. As nice bonus, Ashley also provided important contrast in game universe by just being a tomboy and with her remarks of Asari commandos for example.
I at least felt that BioWare really rised the bar in video game writing.
I think people may be bit affraid that element like that is removed from the game. Sexing up every character in game isn't by anymeans anyway ground breaking and there isn't anything new and exciting in that.
I hope the developers see this passage. I for one found it impressive:innocent:
Liisi wrote...
iakus wrote...
ZLurps wrote...
I think that the most important thing in Ashley was that her character was different than most seen about million times heroines in comics, tv-series, movies and video games. BioWare did very well breaking sidekick bimbo stereotype with her character and that was one thing that made ME1 very different kind of experience than other products. As nice bonus, Ashley also provided important contrast in game universe by just being a tomboy and with her remarks of Asari commandos for example.
I at least felt that BioWare really rised the bar in video game writing.
I think people may be bit affraid that element like that is removed from the game. Sexing up every character in game isn't by anymeans anyway ground breaking and there isn't anything new and exciting in that.
I hope the developers see this passage. I for one found it impressive:innocent:
Yes yes DING DING DING jackpot!
mopotter wrote...
Liisi wrote...
iakus wrote...
ZLurps wrote...
I think that the most important thing in Ashley was that her character was different than most seen about million times heroines in comics, tv-series, movies and video games. BioWare did very well breaking sidekick bimbo stereotype with her character and that was one thing that made ME1 very different kind of experience than other products. As nice bonus, Ashley also provided important contrast in game universe by just being a tomboy and with her remarks of Asari commandos for example.
I at least felt that BioWare really rised the bar in video game writing.
I think people may be bit affraid that element like that is removed from the game. Sexing up every character in game isn't by anymeans anyway ground breaking and there isn't anything new and exciting in that.
I hope the developers see this passage. I for one found it impressive:innocent:
Yes yes DING DING DING jackpot!
Agree with everyone else. Nice post.
Modifié par TobiTobsen, 10 juin 2011 - 07:50 .
Badpie wrote...
None of the things like her being awesome and kick ass preclude her from wanting to look good and sexually appealing. Everyone seems to think that because Ash is tough she automatically doesn't care how she looks. I find this ridiculous. God forbid a woman can be all those things, which I personally think she is. So I don't lose any respect or lower my opinion of her as a bad ass woman if she wants to wear her hair down, slap on some lip gloss and wear a v-neck. That's just silly. And given what we know of Ash's character, maybe she wouldn't wear something impractical. You're forgetting that this suit and the possible technology for it may make it perfectly acceptable for a fight.
Modifié par iakus, 10 juin 2011 - 07:52 .
Badpie wrote...
None of the things like her being awesome and kick ass preclude her from wanting to look good and sexually appealing. Everyone seems to think that because Ash is tough she automatically doesn't care how she looks. I find this ridiculous. God forbid a woman can be all those things, which I personally think she is. So I don't lose any respect or lower my opinion of her as a bad ass woman if she wants to wear her hair down, slap on some lip gloss and wear a v-neck. That's just silly. And given what we know of Ash's character, maybe she wouldn't wear something impractical. You're forgetting that this suit and the possible technology for it may make it perfectly acceptable for a fight.
iakus wrote...
Badpie wrote...
None of the things like her being awesome and kick ass preclude her from wanting to look good and sexually appealing. Everyone seems to think that because Ash is tough she automatically doesn't care how she looks. I find this ridiculous. God forbid a woman can be all those things, which I personally think she is. So I don't lose any respect or lower my opinion of her as a bad ass woman if she wants to wear her hair down, slap on some lip gloss and wear a v-neck. That's just silly. And given what we know of Ash's character, maybe she wouldn't wear something impractical. You're forgetting that this suit and the possible technology for it may make it perfectly acceptable for a fight.
I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't look good. I'm certainly not saying that. I am saying that Ash was a very practical, pragmatic woman (a trait many seemed to associate with her "racism") Everything you said is fine. Hair down (yes it looks good) makeup and everything. What concerns us (and by "us" I mean "me") is how she looks in a fight. When it comes to fighting for your life, looking good is a purely secondary goal. Then you button up, tie your hair back, wear the best protection available and use the biggest gun you can handle.
And heavier armors can look good. Not to harp on a point, but Tela Vasir's armor was very attractive, and I keep hoping Ash's armor will end up looking like that. What she has now is too...Star Trek-y I guess, for a bad**** marine. Or a highly trained Spectre.
Now maybe that suit is better than the heavy armors of three years ago. But that begs the question
1) Why doesn't Kaidan get it?
2) Why doesn't Shepard wear it too?
3) Where's the heavy version of that outfit?
Badpie wrote...
None of the things like her being awesome and kick ass preclude her from wanting to look good and sexually appealing. Everyone seems to think that because Ash is tough she automatically doesn't care how she looks. I find this ridiculous. God forbid a woman can be all those things, which I personally think she is. So I don't lose any respect or lower my opinion of her as a bad ass woman if she wants to wear her hair down, slap on some lip gloss and wear a v-neck. That's just silly. And given what we know of Ash's character, maybe she wouldn't wear something impractical. You're forgetting that this suit and the possible technology for it may make it perfectly acceptable for a fight.
iakus wrote...
trobbins777 wrote...
Yes and Kaidan went from lieutenant to staff commander in ME 2 where he wore heavier armor in the scene on Horizon. He might be promoted even further in ME 3, but that's not my point. Ash needs to be alot more mobile than Kaiden. Soldiers need mobility in order to ambush and flank enemies. Where as Kaiden can just curve his biotics and tech abilities around his enemies. Which exposes him and makes him more of a target because of it.
That's not how it worked in ME1. In fact, that's the exact opposite of how it worked in ME1
That's not how it worked in ME2 either. Biotics went into combat in spandex, naked to the waist, etc.Also, if Ash is wearing spectre gear. I think i can safely say that it will protect her just as much if not more so than any heavy armor in Mass effect 1.
Kaidan's wearing Spectre gear too. Apparantly it comes in his/hers variety now.
Ryzaki wrote...
...I'm still irked there's a 99% chance male Shepard won't get some form fitting armor.
That's bull. All the other humans have some. (except...Kaidan for *some* reason).
This isn't what most people (or as far as I could tell, the one you were quoting) are saying. It isn't that we think Ash wouldn't care how she looks, it is that based on what we learned of her in ME1, we would expect her to prioritize utility over appearance. Note that many of the people who have had issues with the appearance have explicitly stated that they would be fine if this was her casual appearance. They only have problems if is representative of the combat appearance as well because, based on what we know, it would seem to indicate a shift for preference of appearance over utility.None of the things like her being awesome and kick ass preclude her from wanting to look good and sexually appealing. Everyone seems to think that because Ash is tough she automatically doesn't care how she looks. I find this ridiculous.
I half agree. I wouldn't lose any respect for someone because she does that in a casual setting. If she starts wearing her hair down, throwing on additional makeup, and wearing more revealing clothing when she is going into a situation where it is detrimental, you can bet that my respect for that person will decline.God forbid a woman can be all those things, which I personally think she is. So I don't lose any respect or lower my opinion of her as a bad ass woman if she wants to wear her hair down, slap on some lip gloss and wear a v-neck. That's just silly.
We aren't forgetting that - from a gameplay perspective, if this is her combat suit and we have as much control over companion attire as ME2, it will be just as workable as any other outfit would be. But from an in-game lore type perspective, the information we have from the previous games indicates that parts of the outfit are less effective for combat, that her hair is much less suitable for combat-type-situations, and so on. These can be explained by additional ME3 lore reasons, surely. But as that is done more and more (or if it is just ignored), you really start getting into the territory covered by ZLurps' and other's posts.And given what we know of Ash's character, maybe she wouldn't wear something impractical. You're forgetting that this suit and the possible technology for it may make it perfectly acceptable for a fight.
Modifié par Temaperacl, 10 juin 2011 - 08:18 .
trobbins777 wrote...
iakus wrote...
trobbins777 wrote...
Yes and Kaidan went from lieutenant to staff commander in ME 2 where he wore heavier armor in the scene on Horizon. He might be promoted even further in ME 3, but that's not my point. Ash needs to be alot more mobile than Kaiden. Soldiers need mobility in order to ambush and flank enemies. Where as Kaiden can just curve his biotics and tech abilities around his enemies. Which exposes him and makes him more of a target because of it.
That's not how it worked in ME1. In fact, that's the exact opposite of how it worked in ME1
That's not how it worked in ME2 either. Biotics went into combat in spandex, naked to the waist, etc.Also, if Ash is wearing spectre gear. I think i can safely say that it will protect her just as much if not more so than any heavy armor in Mass effect 1.
Kaidan's wearing Spectre gear too. Apparantly it comes in his/hers variety now.
In Mass effect 2 bioware ditched the entire notion of equipping squadmates with light, medium and heavy armor types in favor of customizing specific armor/clothes/belt-bras for each specific squad mate. Now in some cases it was more fashion than function, such as the original jack and miranda outfits, and in some cases it did, such as Jacob and Mordin. However i don't believe you can make the case for Ashley's new armor isn't functional. Since there is actual armor plating, and parts of the outfit that look reinforced.
Did bioware pretty up Ashley? maybe. However I can still see her wearing something like this into combat and still being the effective, determined, tough as nails soldier that she is.
I have to go now but hopefully we can continue this discussion later.
iakus wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
...I'm still irked there's a 99% chance male Shepard won't get some form fitting armor.
That's bull. All the other humans have some. (except...Kaidan for *some* reason).
You really wanna see Zaeed in form-fitting armor?
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