2247 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeranx]

trobbins777 wrote...

iakus wrote...

trobbins777 wrote...

Yes and Kaidan went from lieutenant to staff commander in ME 2 where he wore heavier armor in the scene on Horizon. He might be promoted even further in ME 3, but that's not my point.  Ash needs to be alot more mobile than Kaiden. Soldiers need mobility in order to ambush and flank enemies. Where as Kaiden can just curve his biotics and tech abilities around his enemies. Which exposes him and makes him more of a target because of it.

That's not how it worked in ME1.  In fact, that's the exact opposite of how it worked in ME1
That's not how it worked in ME2 either.  Biotics went into combat in spandex, naked to the waist, etc.

Also, if Ash is wearing spectre gear. I think i can safely say that it will protect her just as much if not more so than any heavy armor in Mass effect 1.

Kaidan's wearing Spectre gear too.  Apparantly it comes in his/hers variety now. 

 In Mass effect 2 bioware ditched the entire notion of equipping squadmates with light, medium and heavy armor types in favor of customizing specific armor/clothes/belt-bras for each specific squad mate.  Now in some cases it was more fashion than function, such as the original jack and miranda outfits, and in some cases it did, such as Jacob and Mordin.  However i don't believe you can make the case for Ashley's new armor isn't functional. Since there is actual armor plating, and parts of the outfit that look reinforced. 

Did bioware pretty up Ashley? maybe. However I can still see her wearing something like this into combat and still being the effective, determined, tough as nails soldier that she is.


I have to go now but hopefully we can continue this discussion later. 

I don't see where armor plating exists on that outfit.  If you're talking about the silver/gray areas I have to ask what about her chest then?  Why isn't one of the most vital parts of her body protected?  Maybe they moved her heart to her shoulder so she doesn't have to worry about taking a bullet to the chest.  I guess the v-neck makes sense then too.

[Badpie]

iakus wrote...

Badpie wrote...

None of the things like her being awesome and kick ass preclude her from wanting to look good and sexually appealing.  Everyone seems to think that because Ash is tough she automatically doesn't care how she looks.  I find this ridiculous.  God forbid a woman can be all those things, which I personally think she is.  So I don't lose any respect or lower my opinion of her as a bad ass woman if she wants to wear her hair down, slap on some lip gloss and wear a v-neck.  That's just silly.  And given what we know of Ash's character, maybe she wouldn't wear something impractical.  You're forgetting that this suit and the possible technology for it may make it perfectly acceptable for a fight.

I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't look good.  I'm certainly not saying that.  I am saying that Ash was a very practical, pragmatic woman (a trait many seemed to associate with her "racism")  Everything you said is fine.  Hair down (yes it looks good)  makeup and everything.  What concerns us (and by "us" I mean "me") is how she looks in a fight.  When it comes to fighting for your life, looking good is a purely secondary goal.  Then you button up, tie your hair back, wear the best protection available and use the biggest gun you can handle.

And heavier armors can look good.  Not to harp on a point, but Tela Vasir's armor was very attractive, and I keep hoping Ash's armor will end up looking like that.  What she has now is too...Star Trek-y I guess, for a bad**** marine.  Or a highly trained Spectre.

Now maybe that suit is better than the heavy armors of three years ago.  But that begs the question
1) Why doesn't Kaidan get it?
2) Why doesn't Shepard wear it too?
3) Where's the heavy version of that outfit?

I totally get this and I think we agree for the most part, especially with what I bolded.  Like I said I hope we get something else to put her in too as an option.  I guess I'm mostly just defending things that don't need defending!  

Modifié par Badpie, 10 juin 2011 - 08:30 .

[KBomb]

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

[Nashiktal]

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

[ZLurps]

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Characters wear armour for a reason, we can see stats in ME1 and ME2. There are differences.
Outside of that, there are other stuff flying on battlefield than bullets.
For example, helmet doesn't protect a soldier from a direct bullet hit, but they protect from all the other junk flying, like shards from rocks, glass, whatever.

Sameway, other protective gear on other areas protects soldiers body from various hazards.

Edit: Clarify.

Modifié par ZLurps, 10 juin 2011 - 08:38 .

[Iakus]

trobbins777 wrote...

 In Mass effect 2 bioware ditched the entire notion of equipping squadmates with light, medium and heavy armor types in favor of customizing specific armor/clothes/belt-bras for each specific squad mate.  Now in some cases it was more fashion than function, such as the original jack and miranda outfits, and in some cases it did, such as Jacob and Mordin.  However i don't believe you can make the case for Ashley's new armor isn't functional. Since there is actual armor plating, and parts of the outfit that look reinforced. 

Did bioware pretty up Ashley? maybe. However I can still see her wearing something like this into combat and still being the effective, determined, tough as nails soldier that she is.

I don't entirely approve of the whole specific outfits for particular squadmates.  Like you said, in several cases it amounted to style over substance.  But at least in most cases it did follow the characteristics of the particular squadmates, so while I may not approve of the look, I can at least understand it.

In Ash's case, I can do neither.  It flies in the face of what we know about the character.  Even if it is light armor, Ash isn't a "light armor" person.  Sure she could wear it, and look good doing so, but the Ash I got to know in ME1 would be grumbling the whole time that she looks like a dancer at Chora's Den (whether she does or not) and wanting to get out of this "asari get-up" and into "a real suit of armor".

[Temaperacl]

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.
[...]

But which would give her a better chance of surviving? Both from a gameplay perspective and from a lore perspective if all other things are equal, heavier armor gives better protection than lighter armor.

[Ryzaki]

Nashiktal wrote...

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

 

Indeed. Dude Shep totally needs a solid snake outfit.  I want to ogle dat ass. 

[Nashiktal]

Not to mention when ashley was hit by those drones in ME1, she only took a single bullet. Jenkins was hit by full auto by two drones at once.

Also story. Jenkins died first due to a lack of plot armor. Although I guess that means because Ashley does have plot armor, her rubber suit will somehow be the million dollar suit that protects from a reaper tentacle. (Or does it? Find out in fornax!)

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

 

Indeed. Dude Shep totally needs a solid snake outfit.  I want to ogle dat ass. 

You know I actually am curious as to what Garrus would look like in a speedo. 

[Massadonious1]

iakus wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

I can make plenty of assumptions about people, groups of people, institutions, etc. in the real world based on their past actions, but I don't, because I am rational human being.

I'm sorry if ME2 left you, they, so jaded, but it shouldn't stop otherwise intelligent individuals from not thinking critically.

Somehtingsomething history somethingsomething repeat it...

Yeah, sticking your head in the sand makes it better. I honestly hope that this isn't how you see the world outside of video games, because I would feel sorry for any minorities you interact with.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

 

Indeed. Dude Shep totally needs a solid snake outfit.  I want to ogle dat ass. 

His solid snake would have nowhere to hide.

[Nashiktal]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

 

Indeed. Dude Shep totally needs a solid snake outfit.  I want to ogle dat ass. 

His solid snake would have nowhere to hide.

Hey oh! *fistbump*

[Ryzaki]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

 

Indeed. Dude Shep totally needs a solid snake outfit.  I want to ogle dat ass. 

His solid snake would have nowhere to hide.

 

It doesn't need anywhere to hide. It's a stealth suit. Plus he has like...barriers and stuff to stop damage. IWANT MY FETISH GEAR! 

[ZLurps]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

KBomb wrote...

Ashley was in medium armor when you first met her, the same as Jenkins and his armor certainly didn’t help him. Ashley was shot in the intro with her running and the bullet didn’t bounce off her suit, her shields stopped it. With the technology in this fantasy setting, I don’t see why someone couldn’t survive an ordeal in combat wearing what she is wearing.


Jenkins had his chest covered and dropped like a brick. And everyone complains about Ashley’s new “heels” but they don’t look to be as high as the heel on Tela Vasir’s boots.

Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

 

Indeed. Dude Shep totally needs a solid snake outfit.  I want to ogle dat ass. 

His solid snake would have nowhere to hide.

 

It doesn't need anywhere to hide. It's a stealth suit. Plus he has like...barriers and stuff to stop damage. IWANT MY FETISH GEAR! 

:D:D:D

[KBomb]

Nashiktal wrote...


Good point. So lets put everyone on the team into speedos/ bikini's. The tech will protect them them, so lets just revel in the flesh pleasure. 

Yes! Because my whole argument thus far has been based on the fact that I don’t see enough women in bikinis! Flesh pleasure, FTW! While we’re at it, every character who I don’t deem to be attractive, I say Bioware should make them wear traditional biohazard suits, full plate armor and traditional space suits! That way I don’t have to look at their human form, or see their face! I am so glad someone finally understands me. Thank you!

But for the sake of the argument that heavy armor may be practical, but also not necessary to stay alive. If a shield can protect you from a couple of shots, that would be enough to grab cover. I always put my team into cover, in nearly every battle. That is the point of combat. No one actually goes in toe to toe anymore. You fire off some suppressive rounds and take cover--unless you’re the run and gun type, which would be suicide in most cases heavy armor or no.

[Bluko]

Eshaye wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Christina Norman backs up what I've been saying all thread long.

Christina Norman: No offense to fans, I love hearing your opinions about what would look great on henchmen however... I am less impressed by arguments about how they must where this, or must where that, I respect the artistic vision of our artists (29 minutes ago from Twitterrific)

Yeah me too. Except when they go and completely ignore what made a character who they were.... Sorry Christina, do not agree. 

AND also completely ignore how the lore extensively talks about wearing suits in certain situations....  whatevs.

Bingo.

Look Bioware, you've done a great job so far with Kaidan, Liara, Garrus, and James. But you've really dropped the ball here with Ashley. Wearing hefty armor was kind of a big deal for Ashley. I earnestly cannot believe her values would change that much, and if they did then she really isn't Ashley anymore. For a game series all about characters you guys tend to show a lot of disdain for former squadmates sometimes. And Ashley's new design is one of those times.

I'll give praise where I feel it's due. And also for the record I don't have an issue with Ashley's look changing, but I do take issue with how it has changed. I really don't care if Ashley has let her hair down or her... well are bigger. Fine by me. But Ashley needs to be wearing some actual plated armor. I don't care if it's pink and has butterflies adorned all over it, but this catsuit crap really needs to end. While I'm sure 80% of the fanbase is perfectly fine with this since it makes Ashley "hot", I find it demeaning in that not only are you using "sex sells", but you completely trampled over what made Ashley well... Ashley in the first place.

I don't get it. You guys are all about this "supposed" sexual equality. Does FemShep wear lighter armor then MaleShep? No. Do you limit the romances for Shepard? No. So why the hell does the one female human squadmate wear little more then a jumpsuit? Yet all the guys are wearing heavy plated and robust armor so far?



Seriously why the hell is Kaidan wearing bulky plated armor, but Ashley isn't?  If anything it should be the opposite since Kaidan is a Biotic. Ashley is a Soldier, she's tough and she shoots people. Right now she looks like an Inflitrator or an Adept or one of the other "squishy" classes. Can your artists seriously not make an actual armor design where Ashley is hot? Are you guys really that crass or unimaginative? What Ashley is wearing is preposterous on the basis of the lore, on the basis of her character, and on the basis of equality.

Garrus uses Sniper Rifles
Tali uses Shotguns
Ashley uses Heavy Armor

If Ashley's armor is now light armor, is Garrus now a Biotic? I mean why not? If you're going to take such liberties with the characters I don't see why this couldn't be done. Oh that's right because it doesn't make any sense!

Modifié par Bluko, 10 juin 2011 - 09:09 .

[Nashiktal]

You know another thing that makes me sad? There is now only TWO female squadmates in the entire game who does NOT have cleavage. Of the two, one is a Quarian who cannot leave the environmental suit, and the other is ironically Liara Tsoni, an Asari, the race handmade to be fanservice.

[Ryuu814]

I think we are all over-reacting just a little bit here...
Think of it frmo a fictional point of view.
Romanced or not, Ashley held a huge amount of respect for Shepard and she moured the loss of her commander for two years. Now back on Horizion we could tell that she had come to terms with that and buried her feelings deep within herself, letting the tough exterior show but keeping the emotional and senstive stuff under said exterior.

We don't know the time period between Horizion to the begining of Mass Effect 3. I'd like to think a good long while. In that time maybe that meeting on Horizion struck a chord with her in some way? Maybe having Sheppard back in her life caused her own personality to change in terms of a less tough exterior?

People change over long periods of time. it's in a person's nature to change their personality, sexuality and preferances.
While I (and Alex Sheppard) share the concerns about her outfit and Bioware's "tradition" of over-sexulising female's. E3 has come and gone, and the game isn't due out for another 8 months which leaves plenty of time for more information to be released along with changes to the game.

[trobbins777]

Xeranx wrote...

trobbins777 wrote...

 In Mass effect 2 bioware ditched the entire notion of equipping squadmates with light, medium and heavy armor types in favor of customizing specific armor/clothes/belt-bras for each specific squad mate.  Now in some cases it was more fashion than function, such as the original jack and miranda outfits, and in some cases it did, such as Jacob and Mordin.  However i don't believe you can make the case for Ashley's new armor isn't functional. Since there is actual armor plating, and parts of the outfit that look reinforced. 

Did bioware pretty up Ashley? maybe. However I can still see her wearing something like this into combat and still being the effective, determined, tough as nails soldier that she is.


I have to go now but hopefully we can continue this discussion later. 

I don't see where armor plating exists on that outfit.  If you're talking about the silver/gray areas I have to ask what about her chest then?  Why isn't one of the most vital parts of her body protected?  Maybe they moved her heart to her shoulder so she doesn't have to worry about taking a bullet to the chest.  I guess the v-neck makes sense then too.

It is if you look closely at these screenshots you can see she is wearing  what appears to be the equivalent of a space kevlar vest. 

http://fc08.devianta...yan-d3i83i9.png
http://fc00.devianta...yan-d3i832v.png

Actually since Ash is a spectre it's probably space dragon skin.

[LPPrince]

Yeah, I see serious overreactions here.

[KBomb]

Nashiktal wrote...

You know another thing that makes me sad? There is now only TWO female squadmates in the entire game who does NOT have cleavage. Of the two, one is a Quarian who cannot leave the environmental suit, and the other is ironically Liara Tsoni, an Asari, the race handmade to be fanservice.

You missed some! Ashley doesn’t show cleavage. Miranda shows a bit of her upper chest, but no cleavage. Jack and Samara are the only ones who do, and you can eventually cover Jack’s up. So that makes one female to four.

[CajNatalie]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I'm still irked there's a 99% chance male Shepard won't get some form fitting armor.

That's bull. All the other humans have some. (except...Kaidan for *some* reason).

You really wanna see Zaeed in form-fitting armor?  

You haven't noticed his pants fit to his middle-aged ass?
Go take a look next time he's in front of you.

But aside from the ass, he's plated up where it counts, minus an arm, and that's what I like for front-line soldiers.
Everyone showed their ass off in ME1 armor anyway, even Heavy Armor plating only plated the outer parts of each cheek.


Anyway, Iakus, keep up the good work. I'm behind you here.
Wait, maybe I should use a different phrase.
I support you in this thread.
That's better.

Also, Bluko made an excellent post. I also support.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 10 juin 2011 - 09:36 .

[Nashiktal]

KBomb wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

You know another thing that makes me sad? There is now only TWO female squadmates in the entire game who does NOT have cleavage. Of the two, one is a Quarian who cannot leave the environmental suit, and the other is ironically Liara Tsoni, an Asari, the race handmade to be fanservice.

You missed some! Ashley doesn’t show cleavage. Miranda shows a bit of her upper chest, but no cleavage. Jack and Samara are the only ones who do, and you can eventually cover Jack’s up. So that makes one female to four.

Dude? They are showing cleavage. You see those lines there? The ones over the sternum? Thats called cleavage. Miranda shows it, Ashely shows it. They both do. To not show cleavage they would have to raise their suits some mate.

Edit: Come to think of it, Miranda has a large nothingness above her breasts and cleavage. Looks a bit wierd it does.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 10 juin 2011 - 09:43 .