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Was that... ...Ashley?


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#2051
AngelicMachinery

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shinobi602 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

NO we are NOT in agreement, all you are doing is bending yourself backwards to make sense of these silly decisions.

IF lighsuits can do everything a hardsuit can, I WANT ONE for Femshep and if she doesn't get one I will call bullsh'it on this whole thing and give you the real reason why things are like this:

Girl squaddie gotta be purty let's give them cute spandex and hair that falls on their face 'cause that's like soooo sexy!

Boys are badasses! Let's put them in strong armor that depicts just how manly they are! yay! I like boys <3 *bat eyelashes*

I hope this isn't the case but that's the general vibe I'm getting right now, somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


*yawn*

Knew it was a matter of time before some played the feminist card.

Stay classy BSN.


This isn't femnism. 

#2052
Massadonious1

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Assuming is better than speculating?

Someone tell BioWare, they can save a lot of money on the bandwidth required to keep this forum functioning.

#2053
shinobi602

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Eshaye wrote...


Absolutetly yawn yourself to death it doesn't change the image to me. 


Fixed that for you.

#2054
Mr. MannlyMan

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Machazareel wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

iakus wrote...

But even if that is her combat armor, the game takes place in the future. Do you haters really think that 170 years in the future, they wouldn't come up with a material that super durable, but thin as a cloth?



See Bluko's excellent  post about military hardsuits.  That's what armor of the future is made of.  Before they became superhero costumes, anyway.


But if Ashley's new suit can do everything a hard suit can do without being as bulky, why would she continue to use a hard suit?


Why would ANYONE?! Oh I know, because according to Christina, they feel like it.... :? Better be good reasons why that is or the hate thread post launch won't compare to this. 


Ah so we're in agreement, Ashley's new lighter suit can do everything a hard suit can do, and thus there's no reason for her to wear a bulky hard suit. I'm glad we cleared that up.

I figure Kaiden, being an L2 Biotic needs something extra provided by his suit. That said, The Alliance is going to hand out standard gear to most of their grunts (Like James Vega) and save the good stuff for special ops (like say Human Spectres)


Like say, form-fitting leather suits for Shepard and Kaidan? :?

WTF are you on about? If the light suit is functionally the exact same as a hardsuit, provides the exact same amount of protection, why would Kaidan get anything "extra" from his hardsuit? Unless the Alliance wanted to hook Ashley (a lower-ranked marine) up with better armor than a higher-ranked marine?


Because's he's a sentinel and uses both Tech and Biotic abilities, which can be supplemented by certain suit upgrades, which may take space, need extra power sources, etc.


But Ashley's lighter suit can do everything a hardsuit can do? Read? Did you or Nohvarr even read what he wrote?

#2055
Machazareel

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I chose to not take it 100% literally and logically assumed he was referring to protection in combat and in hazardous environments, since that's what everyone is raging about.

edit: And it seems I was right.

Modifié par Machazareel, 11 juin 2011 - 10:20 .


#2056
Nohvarr

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[quote]Like say, form-fitting leather suits for Shepard and Kaidan? Image IPB

WTF are you on about? If the light suit is functionally the exact same as a hardsuit, provides the exact same amount of protection, why would Kaidan get anything "extra" from his hardsuit?
[/quote]

Because kaiden, a Sentinel, has different needs than Ashley, a pure soldier. We covered the basics of what a hardsuit could do as far as protection. Nothing was said about Biotics. We do know that some armor pieces can improve Biotic ability. Kaiden's suit might be designed to increase his biotic power which would prevent him from wearing something as light as Ashley.


[quote]Eshaye wrote...

NO we are NOT in agreement, all you are doing is bending yourself backwards to make sense of these silly decisions. [/quote

Nothing silly, I'm simply keeping an open mind and pointing out that using ME 1 as the only source of what is and isn't possible is rather silly. ME 1 didn't have Thanix cannons, it didn't have Collectos able to freeze human beings. We were confined to a fairly small portion of the galaxy, and now our expierence and knowledge has expaned. As such the old rules don't always apply.

[quote]IF lighsuits can do everything a hardsuit can, I WANT ONE for Femshep and if she doesn't get one I will call bullsh'it on this whole thing and give you the real reason why things are like this:[/quote]

Well fem Shep could wear light armor in ME 1, and was capable of wearing different armor in ME 2 so getting your wish isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

#2057
diskoh

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Eshaye wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

iakus wrote...

But even if that is her combat armor, the game takes place in the future. Do you haters really think that 170 years in the future, they wouldn't come up with a material that super durable, but thin as a cloth?



See Bluko's excellent  post about military hardsuits.  That's what armor of the future is made of.  Before they became superhero costumes, anyway.


But if Ashley's new suit can do everything a hard suit can do without being as bulky, why would she continue to use a hard suit?


Why would ANYONE?! Oh I know, because according to Christina, they feel like it.... :? Better be good reasons why that is or the hate thread post launch won't compare to this. 


Why do some people not use cell phones now that we have such awesome technology?

#2058
Iakus

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Machazareel wrote...

Because's he's a sentinel and uses both Tech and Biotic abilities, which can be supplemented by certain suit upgrades, which may take space, need extra power sources, etc.


And a soldier couldn't use that same space for more shield emitters, bigger power sources for the emitters, extra medigel, or even some anti-varren spray?

#2059
Temaperacl

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shinobi602 wrote...

Temaperacl wrote...

But it does impact the enjoyment of some other people.


Well, then hopefully there are outfits/armors for both groups of people. But Bioware has a vision for their games that want to stick to, and I doubt they'll change what they like for a small group of fans.

Having multiple outfits would be fine for me.  As to BioWare's "vision", I don't know what it is so I can't speak much to it, but the question there is - do the issues being stated here interfere with the vision of the character? Does Ash have to look like this in order to fill the role BioWare is trying to put her into?



Temaperacl wrote...
I know there are some ME2 squadmates I never use simply because I find their outfits ridiculous.

Wow...that's...crazy to say the least :blink:

How is it crazy? It makes more sense to me to simply avoid parts of games than have them impact my enjoyability of the game. I enjoy ME2. Why would I intentionally put characters into situations that pull me out of the game experience when I interact with them?

[Edit: Rephrased for clarity]

Modifié par Temaperacl, 11 juin 2011 - 10:23 .


#2060
trobbins777

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Bluko wrote...


Why does Shepard even need armor anyways? Is it really to provide protection or is it just so he can look badass? Why can't Shepard just run around in a Hoodie if you don't actually need armor for anything then?

Answer me this: If all Ashley needs is a jumpsuit why isn't that all Shepard needs? Why does Shepard wear all that armor if they don't need it? Surely it would be far easier for Shepard to roll and run in armor that didn't resemble platemail. 

Look I don't need explanation for everything in-game. But if Shepard and his squad don't need combat hard-suits why create this Codex entry:

"Combat hard-suits use a dual-layer system to protect the wearer. The inner layer consists of fabric armor with kinetic padding. Areas that don't need to be flexible, such as the chest or shins, are reinforced with sheets of lightweight ablative ceramic.The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected, provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell.Armored hard-suits are sealable to protect the wearer from extremes of temperature and atmosphere. Standard equipment includes an onboard mini-frame and a communications, navigation, and sensing suite. The mini-frame is designed to accept and display data from a weapon's smart targeting system to make it easier to locate and eliminate enemies."

So Shepard and company don't need proper hard-suits anymore because...

A) Shields can stop all bullets?
B) Bullets aren't really that deadly to unprotected body tissue?
C) Bullets can't pierce thin fabrics?
D) You'll never be exposed to a vacuum?
E) You'll never be exposed to hazards?
F) You'll never be exposed to a different atmosphere?
G) Helmet displays are useless?
H) Suit strength augmentation is useless?
I) Suit Medi-Gel dispersal is useless?

Wow all those things must be true! I guess wearing armor is pretty silly afterall. Boy Garrus is really lame for wearing some kind of armor all the time. And I think we all know that because Garrus is always wearing armor that makes him the most unpopular character of the series.
<_<


I wouldn't say that armor in the mass effect universe isn't practical. I would say however that you have no evidence that Ash's armor(and if people looked closely at the E3 model they would realize it is armor)  is impractical. You've asked a bunch of rhetorical and pointed questions, and though I have little to no knowledge of what Bioware plans for ME 3. I will at least try to address them.

A) Yes. Shields produce mass effect fields that safely deflect small objects.At least until your shield runs out of power. In game i've never taken damage to my health without first losing my shields.
B) Don't ask questions you already know the answer to, and looking at the model from E3, Ash does have armor on her legs and shoulders and what appears to be a protective vest on her chest and back.
C)See B.
D) Well worst case scenario she uses a breather mask. Best case she gets a custom recon hood or helmet. Either way she'll be fine.
E) As I recall hard suits didn't protect against hazardous enviorments in ME 1 why would they start now?
F) Yep that's right you will never come across a atmosphere that humans can't survive in(Or maybe you should look at D)
G)Not useless, but not necessarily required. Do you really need a computer to tell you who to shoot? Everything else could be put on an omni-tool, or given audibly by EDI.
H)Ashley has suit augmentation. Maybe not as much as you want but she does. Around her legs, shoulders, hips, and chest.
I) How do you know her armor doesn't have suit medigel dispersal? 

And lastly I'd like to reinforce that I don't think your concerns aren't valid ones, But at this point, we don't know if Ash isn't equipped with some kind of prototype spectre gear that has all the protection of a hardsuit without the cumbersome weight( I'm not saying that this is the case). There is just too much we don't know at this point for anyone to draw any valid conclusions as you quite sarcastically seem to have done, concerns yes, but not conclusions.

Modifié par trobbins777, 11 juin 2011 - 10:24 .


#2061
diskoh

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

NO we are NOT in agreement, all you are doing is bending yourself backwards to make sense of these silly decisions.

IF lighsuits can do everything a hardsuit can, I WANT ONE for Femshep and if she doesn't get one I will call bullsh'it on this whole thing and give you the real reason why things are like this:

Girl squaddie gotta be purty let's give them cute spandex and hair that falls on their face 'cause that's like soooo sexy!

Boys are badasses! Let's put them in strong armor that depicts just how manly they are! yay! I like boys <3 *bat eyelashes*

I hope this isn't the case but that's the general vibe I'm getting right now, somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


*yawn*

Knew it was a matter of time before some played the feminist card.

Stay classy BSN.


This isn't femnism. 


Damn right it's not. As a proud feminist I can attest to that.

Feminism is for a woman to do whatever the **** she wants. Ashley can wear what she pleases how she pleases and when she pleases. Sexism is telling her "no you can't, you have to dress a certain way."

#2062
Eshaye

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Nohvarr wrote...
Well fem Shep could wear light armor in ME 1, and was capable of wearing different armor in ME 2 so getting your wish isn't beyond the realm of possibility.


Well I sure hope so. If all these reasons are given and yet we are barred from certain options, putting Shepard in a lighter suit or Kaidan, putting Ashley in a heavier suit, then it all comes down to image and how we perceive that image can be the problem. 

Taking a break!

#2063
onelifecrisis

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Eshaye wrote...

Somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


Huh? :blink:
You're obviously right, but... well, what do you mean "for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect"? You've played ME2! It featured (among other examples) a 15 year girl old single-handedly destroying four heavy YMIR mechs while wearing armor that literally consisted of a pair of nipple piercings.

#2064
Nohvarr

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iakus wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

Because's he's a sentinel and uses both Tech and Biotic abilities, which can be supplemented by certain suit upgrades, which may take space, need extra power sources, etc.


And a soldier couldn't use that same space for more shield emitters, bigger power sources for the emitters, extra medigel, or even some anti-varren spray?


At the cost of speed and mobility?

Kaiden can toss up a Biotic barrier plus his shields so he can take more punishment than Ashley. Ashley's best option is to not get hit, and thus mobility is highly important. Shepard is a bio-synthetic lifeform that's stronger and faster than a standard human. Using extra emitters isn't going to slow him down, as seen in the gameplay vid.

#2065
KateKane

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diskoh wrote...

Damn right it's not. As a proud feminist I can attest to that.

Feminism is for a woman to do whatever the **** she wants. Ashley can wear what she pleases how she pleases and when she pleases. Sexism is telling her "no you can't, you have to dress a certain way."

No. Feminism is about equality. Like holding men and women up to the same standards in combat situations.

#2066
Mr. MannlyMan

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[quote]Nohvarr wrote...

[quote]Like say, form-fitting leather suits for Shepard and Kaidan? Image IPB

WTF are you on about? If the light suit is functionally the exact same as a hardsuit, provides the exact same amount of protection, why would Kaidan get anything "extra" from his hardsuit?
[/quote]

Because kaiden, a Sentinel, has different needs than Ashley, a pure soldier. We covered the basics of what a hardsuit could do as far as protection. Nothing was said about Biotics. We do know that some armor pieces can improve Biotic ability. Kaiden's suit might be designed to increase his biotic power which would prevent him from wearing something as light as Ashley.


[quote]Eshaye wrote...

NO we are NOT in agreement, all you are doing is bending yourself backwards to make sense of these silly decisions. [/quote

Nothing silly, I'm simply keeping an open mind and pointing out that using ME 1 as the only source of what is and isn't possible is rather silly. ME 1 didn't have Thanix cannons, it didn't have Collectos able to freeze human beings. We were confined to a fairly small portion of the galaxy, and now our expierence and knowledge has expaned. As such the old rules don't always apply.

[quote]IF lighsuits can do everything a hardsuit can, I WANT ONE for Femshep and if she doesn't get one I will call bullsh'it on this whole thing and give you the real reason why things are like this:[/quote]

Well fem Shep could wear light armor in ME 1, and was capable of wearing different armor in ME 2 so getting your wish isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
[/quote]


So you don't support the argument that Miranda didn't need heavier armor because she was a sentinel?

Kaidan does?

Why?

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 11 juin 2011 - 10:25 .


#2067
ScepticMatt

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shinobi602 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
IF lighsuits can do everything a hardsuit can, I WANT ONE for Femshep and if she doesn't get one I will call bullsh'it on this whole thing and give you the real reason why things are like this:

Girl squaddie gotta be purty let's give them cute spandex and hair that falls on their face 'cause that's like soooo sexy!
Boys are badasses! Let's put them in strong armor that depicts just how manly they are! yay! I like boys <3 *bat eyelashes*

I hope this isn't the case but that's the general vibe I'm getting right now, somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.

Knew it was a matter of time before someone played the feminist card.

I'm a men and I don't like it either. It just breaks my immersion. 

#2068
Machazareel

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iakus wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

Because's he's a sentinel and uses both Tech and Biotic abilities, which can be supplemented by certain suit upgrades, which may take space, need extra power sources, etc.


And a soldier couldn't use that same space for more shield emitters, bigger power sources for the emitters, extra medigel, or even some anti-varren spray?


I'm sure they could, but then it's a matter of cost and gain. Is the extra shield power sufficient enough that it negates the advantage of being far more agile? Who knows?

#2069
Mister Mida

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onelifecrisis wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


Huh? :blink:
You're obviously right, but... well, what do you mean "for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect"? You've played ME2! It featured (among other examples) a 15 year girl old single-handedly destroying four heavy YMIR mechs while wearing armor that literally consisted of a pair of nipple piercings.

Unless you think Shepard's a pedophile, Jack is not 15 years old.

#2070
Predi1988

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Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Like say, form-fitting leather suits for Shepard and Kaidan? :?

WTF are you on about? If the light suit is functionally the exact same as a hardsuit, provides the exact same amount of protection, why would Kaidan get anything "extra" from his hardsuit? Unless the Alliance wanted to hook Ashley (a lower-ranked marine) up with better armor than a higher-ranked marine?


Because's he's a sentinel and uses both Tech and Biotic abilities, which can be supplemented by certain suit upgrades, which may take space, need extra power sources, etc.


But Ashley's lighter suit can do everything a hardsuit can do? Read? Did you or Nohvarr even read what he wrote?




Then they phrased it wrongly, maybe. Light armor Protects just as well, but for biotic and tech boosts, the armor needs more space. That's why it's bulky.

Also I did some digging, and I found this in the ME codex:

"If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends
with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous
ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection
,
reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either
don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and
head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil
away or ablate rather than burning the wearer.
"

That explains it. So the clothing (like Miranda's) protects from normal weapons, and toxic, heat etc. and the ablative plating is against energy weapons, like the geth sniper rifle, or flamethrowers.

Any more question?

Modifié par Predi1988, 11 juin 2011 - 10:34 .


#2071
Guest_Nyoka_*

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Machazareel wrote...
it's a matter of cost and gain. Is the extra shield power sufficient enough that it negates the advantage of being far more agile? Who knows?

- It is, that's why Shepard wears jumpsuits now, like Ashley. Oh wait.
- It isn't, that's why Ashley wears heavy armor now, like Shepard. Oh wait.

(I was going to say Kaidan instead of Shepard, but I decided otherwise just to avoid the "but he's a sentinel so he needs heavy armor, just like in ME1...oh wait" response.)

Also, it's amazing how science makes technological breakthroughs and applies it to armor in the couple months that have passed since Horizon.

Modifié par Nyoka, 11 juin 2011 - 10:31 .


#2072
AngelicMachinery

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diskoh wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

NO we are NOT in agreement, all you are doing is bending yourself backwards to make sense of these silly decisions.

IF lighsuits can do everything a hardsuit can, I WANT ONE for Femshep and if she doesn't get one I will call bullsh'it on this whole thing and give you the real reason why things are like this:

Girl squaddie gotta be purty let's give them cute spandex and hair that falls on their face 'cause that's like soooo sexy!

Boys are badasses! Let's put them in strong armor that depicts just how manly they are! yay! I like boys <3 *bat eyelashes*

I hope this isn't the case but that's the general vibe I'm getting right now, somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


*yawn*

Knew it was a matter of time before some played the feminist card.

Stay classy BSN.


This isn't femnism. 


Damn right it's not. As a proud feminist I can attest to that.

Feminism is for a woman to do whatever the **** she wants. Ashley can wear what she pleases how she pleases and when she pleases. Sexism is telling her "no you can't, you have to dress a certain way."


Tactls not exactly what I meant either...  there was just nothing there that I read to be what I would consider femminism.  the point I rather poorly made, was I typically have the desire to roll my eyes when people suggest a woman asking for similiar standard is just "Femminism" and brush it off as if that single word simply destroys the argument.  

#2073
onelifecrisis

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Mister Mida wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


Huh? :blink:
You're obviously right, but... well, what do you mean "for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect"? You've played ME2! It featured (among other examples) a 15 year girl old single-handedly destroying four heavy YMIR mechs while wearing armor that literally consisted of a pair of nipple piercings.

Unless you think Shepard's a pedophile, Jack is not 15 years old.


You just keep right on telling yourself that, buddy.

#2074
Machazareel

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Nyoka wrote...

Machazareel wrote...
it's a matter of cost and gain. Is the extra shield power sufficient enough that it negates the advantage of being far more agile? Who knows?

- It is, that's why Shepard wears jumpsuits now, like Ashley. Oh wait.
- It isn't, that's why Ashley wears heavy armor now, like Shepard. Oh wait.

Also, it's amazing how science make technological breakthroughs and applies it to armor in the couple months that have passed since Horizon.


Shepard != Ashley. He's full of cybernetic implants that increase his strength and speed.

They could have been working on it for any amount of time before Horizon. It could have then been completed after Horizon. Not to mention becoming a Spectre "Grants you access to special equipment and training". It's amazing how science makes technological breakthroughs when people have access to the remains of a ship containing technology that miles ahead of what existed before.

Modifié par Machazareel, 11 juin 2011 - 10:33 .


#2075
Massadonious1

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onelifecrisis wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Somebody prove me wrong, for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect.


Huh? :blink:
You're obviously right, but... well, what do you mean "for the love of all that's great and Mass Effect"? You've played ME2! It featured (among other examples) a 15 year girl old single-handedly destroying four heavy YMIR mechs while wearing armor that literally consisted of a pair of nipple piercings.

Unless you think Shepard's a pedophile, Jack is not 15 years old.


You just keep right on telling yourself that, buddy.


Unless you're intent on being intenitonally obtuse for the sake of slinging snarking comments towards BioWare, she is actually older than 15.