I wanted to know if, using Magister's Scythe, if you could use purely buff (arcane shield, rock armor, heroic aura, etc.) spells, and +X% Physical Damage gear (non-warrior and thief) and basically play a mage pseudo tank that uses physical damage.
Physical Damage Mage?
Débuté par
Integrity
, juin 07 2011 12:32
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#2
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 12:42
AreleX
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I believe IN1 did some Magister's Scythe testing, and found it being outstripped by generated staves in Act II?
Either way, I suppose it's entirely possible, but if you do this, you are taking away one of the huge advantages Mages have over all the other classes: access to elemental weaknesses throughout the entire game, not just DLC/Act III. The 'attacks ignore armor' bonus is far outstripped by simply using opposing element staves/spells instead.
Like I said, It's probably *possible* to do this if you really wanted, but you'd pretty much be shooting yourself in the foot throughout the whole game.
Either way, I suppose it's entirely possible, but if you do this, you are taking away one of the huge advantages Mages have over all the other classes: access to elemental weaknesses throughout the entire game, not just DLC/Act III. The 'attacks ignore armor' bonus is far outstripped by simply using opposing element staves/spells instead.
Like I said, It's probably *possible* to do this if you really wanted, but you'd pretty much be shooting yourself in the foot throughout the whole game.
#3
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 12:52
Integrity
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I recently attempted to play an Edge of Night warrior, but missed the Lyrium during the Act of Mercy quest and can't get Lightning Resistance Runes. I don't want to try and beat the boss without them (I'm playing on Nightmare difficulty), so I'm starting over, and I got tired of having to switch weapons to hit certain creatures (mages not being hit by spirit, but being possessed by them... go figure). I could play a vanilla warrior or rogue, but I thought I might do something unique and interesting (until I get bored with auto-attacking all game).
However, if it isn't viable... I'll just try to think of some other weird build.
However, if it isn't viable... I'll just try to think of some other weird build.
#4
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 03:53
mr_afk
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@Integrity - if you have the black emporium simply get desdemonas. By switching between nature and spirit you should be able to hit elemental weaknesses for most enemies (which are immune to the other). I did a S&S elemental crit-warrior pre-patch solely using those two elemental weapons throughout acts one and two. it does get frustrating when fighting shades and skeletons at the same time however (having creatures immune to one thing alongside creatures weak to it is just silly).
With a S&S it doesn't have to be all auto-attacking. But then again, this is based on my experiences pre-patch before reaver got owned.
Scatter and assault in conjunction with cleave, blood/sacrificial frenzy (used to) = widespread destruction/massive spike damage = entire groups of enemies dead in a few seconds.
If you're interested in the physical damage spells (haemorrhage and stonefist) adopting a crit-mage build will probably work better than stacking on +%physical. However, none of the physical staves after the magister's are remotely competitive to the elemental staves so you should probably stick with spirit staves/staves against elemental weaknesses
For example though, my crit-mage build had ~70%crit chance and ~90%crit damage. This meant that I had a pretty high chance of my spells criting and thus dealing +90% damage (which is considerably more than the amount of +%physical you can stack on). Also, increasing crit chance/damage will help out in every element/spell, though due to the large amounts of +%elemental available the only really useful elements to focus on for a crit-mage are physical and spirit.
With a S&S it doesn't have to be all auto-attacking. But then again, this is based on my experiences pre-patch before reaver got owned.
Scatter and assault in conjunction with cleave, blood/sacrificial frenzy (used to) = widespread destruction/massive spike damage = entire groups of enemies dead in a few seconds.
If you're interested in the physical damage spells (haemorrhage and stonefist) adopting a crit-mage build will probably work better than stacking on +%physical. However, none of the physical staves after the magister's are remotely competitive to the elemental staves so you should probably stick with spirit staves/staves against elemental weaknesses
For example though, my crit-mage build had ~70%crit chance and ~90%crit damage. This meant that I had a pretty high chance of my spells criting and thus dealing +90% damage (which is considerably more than the amount of +%physical you can stack on). Also, increasing crit chance/damage will help out in every element/spell, though due to the large amounts of +%elemental available the only really useful elements to focus on for a crit-mage are physical and spirit.
#5
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 04:37
thendcomes
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Is it playable? Maybe. Is it effective? No. In short, if you're talking about NM difficulty, then it's not a good idea.
I speak from the experience of a solo mage playthrough. It is completely outclassed by Staff of the Primal Order (28 cold damage, +14% fire/cold, 1 rune slot, 8g from Bonny Lem), and less effective than Staff of Parlathan against enemies weak to fire. All elemental staves already ignore armor, and both of those staves have a big +elemental % that you would need 4 or 5 pieces of +physical gear to match. If you factor in only Dura's Blue Flame, which alone has +10% fire and cold, you cannot compete in the +damage% department.
The Magister's Scythe is more effective ONLY versus mercenaries and Revenants, and only in Act 1. They are the only enemies in the game immune to cold and not weak to fire. Once you hit level 11 and 12, ie. the end of Act 1, you'll be picking up staves or seeing them in shops with 24 damage. By the time you hit Act 2, you'll be 14 and every staff you find will be better than the Magister's Scythe (and Parlathan for that matter).
I speak from the experience of a solo mage playthrough. It is completely outclassed by Staff of the Primal Order (28 cold damage, +14% fire/cold, 1 rune slot, 8g from Bonny Lem), and less effective than Staff of Parlathan against enemies weak to fire. All elemental staves already ignore armor, and both of those staves have a big +elemental % that you would need 4 or 5 pieces of +physical gear to match. If you factor in only Dura's Blue Flame, which alone has +10% fire and cold, you cannot compete in the +damage% department.
The Magister's Scythe is more effective ONLY versus mercenaries and Revenants, and only in Act 1. They are the only enemies in the game immune to cold and not weak to fire. Once you hit level 11 and 12, ie. the end of Act 1, you'll be picking up staves or seeing them in shops with 24 damage. By the time you hit Act 2, you'll be 14 and every staff you find will be better than the Magister's Scythe (and Parlathan for that matter).
Modifié par thendcomes, 07 juin 2011 - 04:38 .
#6
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 05:09
Integrity
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I'm afraid I'm still new to trying to design and build effective characters for DA2. I Pre-Ordered it, but when it first came out my display drivers made the game impossible to run. I only recently have been able to play, and have tried to do as much research as I can here.
However, I don't like to simply take what is here and use it. I try to find the unexplored niche (not that there is one with players such as yourself
), and see if there is gold amongst the dirt.
I appreciate all the feed back you've given, and in the timely manner it was given. I'm honestly unsure what I want to play at this point, seeing as how I cannot decide between the respective perks of each class. I chose to try elemental warrior because it appeared interesting. Though, if I could find a guide that gives a general list of all the elemental items (like IN1's, but just facts and items without guides or excluding equipment unessential to the respective builds) I'd be much happier. As cheesy as it was, I was fascinated by the Volcanic Shield rogue, but still don't understand why you'd put Runes of Frost in Edge of Night...
However, I don't like to simply take what is here and use it. I try to find the unexplored niche (not that there is one with players such as yourself
), and see if there is gold amongst the dirt.I appreciate all the feed back you've given, and in the timely manner it was given. I'm honestly unsure what I want to play at this point, seeing as how I cannot decide between the respective perks of each class. I chose to try elemental warrior because it appeared interesting. Though, if I could find a guide that gives a general list of all the elemental items (like IN1's, but just facts and items without guides or excluding equipment unessential to the respective builds) I'd be much happier. As cheesy as it was, I was fascinated by the Volcanic Shield rogue, but still don't understand why you'd put Runes of Frost in Edge of Night...
#7
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 06:08
mr_afk
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haha I know what you mean- that was half my motivation towards crit-builds (the other half been really big numbers 
)
I think they've fixed up all the cross-class weapons (so no more allure's crook/shields/hammers) so those sort of experimental builds are gone now.. they were pretty fun weren't they?
Anyhow, the 'putting frost runes' into the edge of night is probably for the first act - because spirit runes aren't available then. It so happens that Templars and the Profane type are weak to both spirit and cold (it also may be useful against rage demons). This means that for most the enemies you use the edge of night on you'll be hitting them with a little bit of extra damage (double damage from runes, so ~+8?). It doesn't really make that much of a difference though-
From my experience, it seems that the only weapon runes that are useful are runes of devastation (+10%damage) and runes of striking (+critical chance). All the elemental runes are useful in min-maxing for a few extra seconds perhaps, but probably don't change much in the grand scheme of things.
In terms of elemental weapons/gear, you can use generic +%elemental gear by shopping at those shops/reloading the autosave until something good shows up. I'm really unlucky when it comes to these things, so I usually give up before getting fully equipped.
Otherwise the general principle is that uniques can be pretty powerful but expensive.
Elemental (fire/electricity/cold) builds may benefit from the ring of the ferryman and the robe of unblemished cleanliness, can't really think of any others from the top of my head (don't really use them)
The best crit-gear i've cone up with is four fingered eddie's lucky talisman, etched ring of the twins, puzzle-ring of the black fox, seven deadly cinch (and stalker's boar hide)
Weapons-wise,
for S&S you have the edge of night and desdemona's from the start, and act 3 you start with a fire-sword (can't remember what its name is)
for 2H you have anderfels from the start, then act3 you get a whole series of really powerful weapons (bloom, celebrant, and something else)
I think elemental warriors are pretty done though. If you're looking for an unexplored niche i would probably recommend looking into the changes made in the recent patch (and trying to find a build off that).
For example, finding an effective bloodmage/spirit build might be good- If you stack up on spirit/crit gear/apparel you could be a tank with one really powerful one foot in (100% of hp as damage)
Otherwise figuring out a new warrior build might be useful (reaver has been so completely nerfed a berserker templar build might be better)
Rogues don't really have much available as far as I can see. They have such good equipment it is almost always going to be better to stack on crit-damage etc than equip +%elemental gear besides the few unique pieces/early game before crit chance is ~100%
Well, goodluck!
actually, now thinking about it, I'm a little bored of my current mage playthrough- I might grab my act 3 warrior and muck around with some berserker builds. how exciting haha
)I think they've fixed up all the cross-class weapons (so no more allure's crook/shields/hammers) so those sort of experimental builds are gone now.. they were pretty fun weren't they?
Anyhow, the 'putting frost runes' into the edge of night is probably for the first act - because spirit runes aren't available then. It so happens that Templars and the Profane type are weak to both spirit and cold (it also may be useful against rage demons). This means that for most the enemies you use the edge of night on you'll be hitting them with a little bit of extra damage (double damage from runes, so ~+8?). It doesn't really make that much of a difference though-
From my experience, it seems that the only weapon runes that are useful are runes of devastation (+10%damage) and runes of striking (+critical chance). All the elemental runes are useful in min-maxing for a few extra seconds perhaps, but probably don't change much in the grand scheme of things.
In terms of elemental weapons/gear, you can use generic +%elemental gear by shopping at those shops/reloading the autosave until something good shows up. I'm really unlucky when it comes to these things, so I usually give up before getting fully equipped.
Otherwise the general principle is that uniques can be pretty powerful but expensive.
Elemental (fire/electricity/cold) builds may benefit from the ring of the ferryman and the robe of unblemished cleanliness, can't really think of any others from the top of my head (don't really use them)
The best crit-gear i've cone up with is four fingered eddie's lucky talisman, etched ring of the twins, puzzle-ring of the black fox, seven deadly cinch (and stalker's boar hide)
Weapons-wise,
for S&S you have the edge of night and desdemona's from the start, and act 3 you start with a fire-sword (can't remember what its name is)
for 2H you have anderfels from the start, then act3 you get a whole series of really powerful weapons (bloom, celebrant, and something else)
I think elemental warriors are pretty done though. If you're looking for an unexplored niche i would probably recommend looking into the changes made in the recent patch (and trying to find a build off that).
For example, finding an effective bloodmage/spirit build might be good- If you stack up on spirit/crit gear/apparel you could be a tank with one really powerful one foot in (100% of hp as damage)
Otherwise figuring out a new warrior build might be useful (reaver has been so completely nerfed a berserker templar build might be better)
Rogues don't really have much available as far as I can see. They have such good equipment it is almost always going to be better to stack on crit-damage etc than equip +%elemental gear besides the few unique pieces/early game before crit chance is ~100%
Well, goodluck!
actually, now thinking about it, I'm a little bored of my current mage playthrough- I might grab my act 3 warrior and muck around with some berserker builds. how exciting haha
Modifié par mr_afk, 07 juin 2011 - 06:25 .
#8
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 06:10
thendcomes
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Finding new and unorthodox builds is great fun. However, physical damage in this game is severely underpowered, which is why you might be banging your head into a wall trying to develop a build around a weapon that produces physical damage - even with the modifier that Magister's has. Furthermore, Magister's has a static 24 damage. It's use in a build would only be relevant in Act 1.
If you've read IN1's guides, you know that spirit has the extra bonus of halving damage resistance. That's why the Edge of Night is so strong. Also, because it has the property of leveling up with you, you can create a build around it that can last all game.
If you go to the wiki, you can find a list of all the equipment in the game: http://dragonage.wik...ge_II_equipment
The number of elemental warrior and rogue weapons is limited, so it should be easy to skim through.
As for the Runes of Frost in Edge of Night, cold damage has the property of slowing enemies movement speed and attack speed. Yet another reason why elemental damage trumps physical damage.
Hope this helps.
If you've read IN1's guides, you know that spirit has the extra bonus of halving damage resistance. That's why the Edge of Night is so strong. Also, because it has the property of leveling up with you, you can create a build around it that can last all game.
If you go to the wiki, you can find a list of all the equipment in the game: http://dragonage.wik...ge_II_equipment
The number of elemental warrior and rogue weapons is limited, so it should be easy to skim through.
As for the Runes of Frost in Edge of Night, cold damage has the property of slowing enemies movement speed and attack speed. Yet another reason why elemental damage trumps physical damage.
Hope this helps.
