140 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

 Metagame discussion ahead.

This will be ignoring any decision done by Shepard (assuming the crew / squad all survives), though it includes DLC and the novels. I'll be ignoring the rogue cells in ME1 and Jack's loyalty mission as they've been wiped out years prior and most likely have been replaced.

Cerberus, as told by EDI, is composed of around 150 people spread out into three different cells. One of these cells is the Lazarus cell, which was mostly destroyed after Wilson's betrayal and the rest joined the Cerberus project to assist Shepard in stopping the Collectors.

Assuming twenty to thirty individuals died during the revival, this would leave around 120-130 individuals in Cerberus. Though it's entirely possible EDI was listing the live operatives at the time, which could possibly keep the number still at 150 individuals.

[150 individuals if Lazarus deaths aren't counted]
[120-130 individuals if Lazarus deaths are counted]

Now throughout the story of Mass Effect 2, we see more of Cerberus operatives recieving untimely ends. Including Overlord DLC and the deaths of those on the Derelict Reaper (assuming not every husk was a scientist), one could conclude that another 30-40 individuals were lost during these experiments.

[110-120 individuals if Lazarus deaths aren't counted]
[80-100 individuals if Lazarus deaths are counted]

After the ending of Mass Effect 2, the crew following Shepard (which are part of the Lazarus cell) abandon Cerberus for Shepard. Out of the named crew, we know there's 15 individuals (that's including Miranda / Jacob / Chakwas / Joker / Kelly) and there's a few more unnamed individuals. Let's round it out to approximately twenty (though I think there's a lot more).

[90-100 individuals if Lazarus deaths aren't counted]
[60-80 individuals if Lazarus deaths are counted]

After all of this, Cerberus got hit again in the novel. Anderson, with the assistance of the Turians, managed to kill off another group of Cerberus and assaulted several Cerberus facilities. Cerberus resources and people were strained enough that TIM had to recieve help from Aria, leaving them in a very vulnerable position.

Assuming around fifteen individuals per facility, this would mean that the remaining people from Cerberus cells were most likely arrested or killed (though they likely recruited more since the end of ME2). Assuming around five Cerberus operatives escaped per facility, that'd still leave a very short numbered group of Cerberus personnel.

Now tell me: How does this group, who can barely sustain itself after having lost almost all of it's personnel, have an army to assist in trying to stop Shepard? They can't possibly have recruited the numbers of soldiers we've seen between the novel and ME3.

TIM's operatives are mostly scientists, not soldiers. Yet we've seen a great number of Cerberus soldiers using advanced tech (ATLAS mech) and weaponry / equipment in great supply.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 juin 2011 - 01:52 .

[Ricinator]

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

[Dave of Canada]

Ricinator wrote...

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

Cerberus doesn't have recruiting stations around Earth going "Do you fear those gigantic tentacle things? Fear not, join us!" though. Soldiers would have to be trained, prepared and be recruited in secret (considering Cerberus isn't open).

[Mr.House]

Ricinator wrote...

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

The events in the book take places months after the relay destruction and Shepard is off the grid. So no, Cerberus was crippled badly only a month or two before ME3.

[Ricinator]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

Cerberus doesn't have recruiting stations around Earth going "Do you fear those gigantic tentacle things? Fear not, join us!" though. Soldiers would have to be trained, prepared and be recruited in secret (considering Cerberus isn't open).

dude bioware doesn't give a crap about RPG anymore, how are we supposed to make sense of it.

[Mr.House]

Ricinator wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

Cerberus doesn't have recruiting stations around Earth going "Do you fear those gigantic tentacle things? Fear not, join us!" though. Soldiers would have to be trained, prepared and be recruited in secret (considering Cerberus isn't open).

dude bioware doesn't give a crap about RPG anymore, how are we supposed to make sense of it.

What the hell does RPG have to do with this discusion?

[Savber100]

A PLOTHOLE! ;D

Hm.. Maybe TIM pulled some strings? ;P


And no... don't even start on a "BIOWREAD HATES RPGS!" rant.

Please, rant after it's released.

Modifié par Savber100, 07 juin 2011 - 02:00 .

[Elite Midget]

Clones.

It worked for Star Wars.

That and retcons. Many retcons.

That's why when the Reapers attack Cerberus, in just over a year, has a full fledged army and are trying to capture you as you escape Earth.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 07 juin 2011 - 02:13 .

[Schneidend]

EDI's information on Cerberus is unreliable. She is a machine, albeit a sentient. Her answers are limited to what she knows like any sentient being. 150 is hardly what I'd call accurate given all the Cerberus ops we find in ME1 and in ME2 DLC.

Cerberus has countless credits at its disposal, the galaxy is full of well-trained ex-Alliance soldiers and mercenaries. There are plenty of arms dealers who would be chomping at the bit to meet the supply demands of a budding new force at ground level. Besides, you can hardly call the small numbers we're seeing in ME3 an "army." Shepard fights a few dozen of these guys, not several hundred.

[ohbobsagetpiss]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

Cerberus doesn't have recruiting stations around Earth going "Do you fear those gigantic tentacle things? Fear not, join us!" though. Soldiers would have to be trained, prepared and be recruited in secret (considering Cerberus isn't open).

They could have been putting together a mini-army behind the scenes for a long time now. And just now have found use for it. It was likely first intended for the reapers...but now have fallen to indoctrination.

Hell, they could just be mercs with Cerberus armor on. 

Modifié par ohbobsagetpiss, 07 juin 2011 - 02:04 .

[Ricinator]

Mr.House wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

well putting the story into account. we can assume that since earth has been taken over and not a lot of people are helping, more people will jump on the cerberus band wagon. end of thread

Cerberus doesn't have recruiting stations around Earth going "Do you fear those gigantic tentacle things? Fear not, join us!" though. Soldiers would have to be trained, prepared and be recruited in secret (considering Cerberus isn't open).

dude bioware doesn't give a crap about RPG anymore, how are we supposed to make sense of it.

What the hell does RPG have to do with this discusion?

RPG involes story good sir, i'm sure they will make something up.

[SennenScale]

Well, EDI said there were 150 operatives, not 150 people in Cerberus, didn't she? Do people like Gabby or Rupert count as Cerberus Operatives, or just people like Miranda?

[Dave of Canada]

SennenScale wrote...

Well, EDI said there were 150 operatives, not 150 people in Cerberus, didn't she? Do people like Gabby or Rupert count as Cerberus Operatives, or just people like Miranda?

Wilson, Jacob and such count as operatives. The Alliance itself describes individuals in cells as operatives regardless of their role (considering operative means worker, it fits). Considering Gabby, Rupert, Chakwas and stuff are working for Cerberus, they are probably considered Cerberus operatives themselves.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[Arrow70]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Cerberus, as told by EDI, is composed of around 150 people spread out into three different cells. One of these cells is the Lazarus cell, which was mostly destroyed after Wilson's betrayal and the rest joined the Cerberus project to assist Shepard in stopping the Collectors.

EDI may not have been, In fact more than likely, been told everything.

[TheBlackBaron]

It's possible the 150 operatives EDI speaks of are simply the core of the organization and are mostly doctors, scientists, officers, etc. They may contract PMCs to use as muscle, and they may not even be aware of their true employers - Cerberus has front groups all over the damn place, after all.

[Amagoi]

Maybe Cerberus is outsourcing to the mercs from ME2? We did a pretty good job of peeving off almost every company in the galaxy.

[Nohvarr]

This is easy, how many people escaped the station in arrival before the end? How many mercs could Cerberus indoctrinate if they were forcefully fused with Reaper tech. How many dispossed, downtroden, forgotten, and desperate humans are their in the universe and how easy would it be to indoctrinate them.

Then there are the other races.

[Sjaddix]

EDI was lied to. TIM went on recruitment drive. He bought a lot of mercs.

[ohbobsagetpiss]

Sjaddix wrote...

He bought a lot of mercs.

This is what i'm thinking. 

[Clonedzero]

"hey blue suns, im TIM and i got tons of cash, wanna wear white armor instead of blue stuff? cool go kill shepard for me and stuff, also hang around these giant robots till your head feels funny, cool? cool"

[Moarlulz]

You know it is possible that the Illusive Man maybe just didn't tell anyone he had a secret private army. In fact that's kind of the point of training a secret army: to not make it well known that you have one. Also, just because EDI says that there are 150 Cerberus operatives doesn't mean it's true. If The Illusive Man is smart, which he certainly seems to be, then he wouldn't trust EDI with any of the secret information given how closely EDI is working with Sheppard. Or it is possible he just hired a bunch of mercenaries. He is pretty much the richest man in the galaxy. And then there's always indoctrination. If Cerberus is working with the reapers than there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to use indoctrination to grow their ranks... also in the gameplay demo at E3 (In the link below) you can hear Mordin mention something about them being indoctrinated when you're fighting Cerberus guys...

[SennenScale]

@DaveOfCanada
Wilson was working with the head of the Lazarus project, so him being counted isn't surprising. But Jacob is an operative too? I thought he was just head of security on the Lazarus station.

It was just a thought though. If support staff, commandos, or security didn't count, then it would allow Cerberus to be much bigger than "150 operatives" implies. If they do, then Cerberus doesn't have the numbers to throw an army at us as of now.

There's always the possibility that EDI was programmed with false information.

Modifié par SennenScale, 07 juin 2011 - 02:20 .

[Mr.House]

Cerberus and the Blue Suns would never work together after the events in ME2. Shall I remind? The Blue Suns tried to screw over Cerberus and tried to imprison Shepard, that failed and Cerberus let Shepard destroy alot of there operations, including an attack at there HQ.

[Zanallen]

I always figured that Operatives was referring to the specific scientists and researchers set up in the cells and that TIM had a security force (see: Army) as a separate entity.