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#51
Paula Deen

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Ryzaki wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Female bodybuilders may not be the right look, but the spaghetti arms we see on FemShep in the Little Black Dress do not convey "I can punch a krogan and live to tell about it", which is even more suspension-of-disbelief-jarring IMO.

 

This pretty much. 

Her figure makes the punching Turian bit a bit of a "..." moment. 

(granted that goes for dude Shep too because at the end of the day it's still a Turian). 

Her looking like the female bodybuilder is a bit much yes. But those spagetti arms? Eh...no. Mixed with the fact that she uses male Shep's animations when attacking and it doesn't look right. 


ManShep punching a turian doesn't look out of place at all. Reading the codex will tell you that a fit male can throw a turian unassisted. Not to mention that ManShep's technique works, considering his (muscular) build.

For FemShep...she is light and somewhat small. Okay, that's fine. Even fit people can have that body type. But what is most jarring is that her arms are very, very weak-looking. Not muscular at all. Now, if she was using different, specific techniques, then MAYBE I could see her punching out a turian. But a Krogan? Not even a slight chance. A YAHG? Jarring doesn't even begin to describe it. It would be like Natalie Portman knocking the Hulk back with a punch to the face.

#52
jeweledleah

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Em23 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Em23 wrote...

It's actually not as hard as you make it out to be, and femshep's job involves plenty of exercise.

it requires working out daily more then one work out a day. very specific diet. a good night's sleep. and supplements. to look like that girl? its a lot and lot of effort of working out in very specific ways. I can see femshep lifting weights for strength, running for endurance and sparring to keep her hand to hand fighting skills sharp. but that won't build this sort of body.

women are not naturaly predisposed to look like that, no matter how much they work out. we don't have the necessary hormonal balance.


Some women are, add that to eating healthily and doing regular (at least 4, 50min gym per week) plus having an active life style and you're set.
Femshep would def have this, especially since keeping fit is a requirement in the military in which she served for ages so time factor would not be a prob.


that buff?  no sorry.  50 minute workouts at the gym and just healthy diet won't give you a body that ripped.  you need extra priotein to build more muscle mass (a lot of fitness models prefer boiled aggs since they are cheap and one of the highest quality natural proteins available, you need to completely avoid certain types of carbs, 50 minute workouts 4 times a week is just barely getting started.  Even geneticaly blessed women still need to put in more effort then that.

fit=/=ripped.  you can be fit and still have relatively smooth looking body where you'd see a fair bit of muscle definition while actualy performing physical tasks, but not when at rest and even accounting for the fact that she's flexing, its still too buff.

models of any sort, whether they are fitness models, or fashion models don't make for good examples of what a generaly fit body should look like.

edited to add - what Paula Dean said?  THAT is my biggest complaint about femshep.  not that she looks too slender, but that she uses the same animations as a much bigger character, physicaly.  someone her size would fight differently - man OR woman.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 juin 2011 - 08:37 .


#53
Dexi

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D.Kain wrote...

daqs wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

It's funny how female bodies were made to sell, yet the majority on these forums so far doesn't agree with the design and plenty more don't even care.

Obviously the opinions of the subset of people on BSN who are vocal forumites are not representative of the opinions of BioWare consumers in general.


And yet Bioware listens to people here?


Yeah, because when a kid cries at your doorsteps for days to give him candy, the only way you'll get ridd of him is to give him candy... The BSN members are just whiners and big babies, not one specific thing Bioware will do will ever make at least 50% of the community happy. 

In the end, if ME3 will fail, it's because BW took advices from the wrong people. 


Now please go ahead, quote and hate this post. IMO, it's full of truth. 

Modifié par Dexi, 07 juin 2011 - 08:41 .


#54
Ryzaki

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Paula Deen wrote...

ManShep punching a turian doesn't look out of place at all. Reading the codex will tell you that a fit male can throw a turian unassisted. Not to mention that ManShep's technique works, considering his (muscular) build.

For FemShep...she is light and somewhat small. Okay, that's fine. Even fit people can have that body type. But what is most jarring is that her arms are very, very weak-looking. Not muscular at all. Now, if she was using different, specific techniques, then MAYBE I could see her punching out a turian. But a Krogan? Not even a slight chance. A YAHG? Jarring doesn't even begin to describe it. It would be like Natalie Portman knocking the Hulk back with a punch to the face.


It does? I though turians had super dense bones. Remembered that codex wrong then. 

LOL 

#55
Hathur

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Seboist wrote...

I always found it jarring that Femshep, Ashley,Miranda,etc all have the same physique as someone like Kelly. It really stretches believability when you see femshep punching out Turians with bare fists or carrying Kaidan over her shoulders on Virmire.

Ashley and Femshep should have had MMA fighter type physiques.


In ME2 it at least made sense from the perspective that Shep has a vast array of cybernetic implants from the Lazarus project... and if you read the actual descriptions on the various health upgrades you buy, find & research in ME2, you'd recall that Shep now has some weird nano webbing throughout her muscles that allow them to absorb tremendous amounts of impact force... one of the upgrades also modified her entire skeletal structure to be heavily reinforced... etc... beneath the skin she's actually very much machine now.. just take the time to read the health upgrades ;)

But yeah, I agree she still has very dainty looking arms and legs... in full armor in ME2 she looks suitably sturdy... but once it comes off we are reminded how scrawny she is (cus she shares the 100% identical body to all generic females in the game... basic civilians... femshep needs a unique body form so as not to appear like a dainty civilian).

#56
sissysouthpaw

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I've been around enough wiry, tiny martial arts people to know that you don't need to be über buff to pack a mean punch but still, it would be nice if FemShep had a little bit more meat in her arms.

#57
Ziggy

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jeweledleah wrote...

Em23 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Em23 wrote...

It's actually not as hard as you make it out to be, and femshep's job involves plenty of exercise.

it requires working out daily more then one work out a day. very specific diet. a good night's sleep. and supplements. to look like that girl? its a lot and lot of effort of working out in very specific ways. I can see femshep lifting weights for strength, running for endurance and sparring to keep her hand to hand fighting skills sharp. but that won't build this sort of body. 

women are not naturaly predisposed to look like that, no matter how much they work out. we don't have the necessary hormonal balance. 


Some women are, add that to eating healthily and doing regular (at least 4, 50min gym per week) plus having an active life style and you're set.
Femshep would def have this, especially since keeping fit is a requirement in the military in which she served for ages so time factor would not be a prob.


that buff?  no sorry.  50 minute workouts at the gym and just healthy diet won't give you a body that ripped.  you need extra priotein to build more muscle mass (a lot of fitness models prefer boiled aggs since they are cheap and one of the highest quality natural proteins available, you need to completely avoid certain types of carbs, 50 minute workouts 4 times a week is just barely getting started.  Even geneticaly blessed women still need to put in more effort then that.

fit=/=ripped.  you can be fit and still have relatively smooth looking body where you'd see a fair bit of muscle definition while actualy performing physical tasks, but not when at rest and even accounting for the fact that she's flexing, its still too buff.

models of any sort, whether they are fitness models, or fashion models don't make for good examples of what a generaly fit body should look like.

edited to add - what Paula Dean said?  THAT is my biggest complaint about femshep.  not that she looks too slender, but that she uses the same animations as a much bigger character, physicaly.  someone her size would fight differently - man OR woman.


You shouldn't do muscle workouts for longer than 50 mins or you body starts to cannibailse. By gym I don't mean a light cardio jog, I mean work out arms one day, then legs the next day, then abs the day after, then a swim the day after that, maybe some yoga and repeat. AT LEAST 4 times per week, 5-6 is better. Proper, hard work during the full 50 mins. Add an active lifestyle on top and yes, you can do it.
It takes commitment and you have to love it but you can do it.
A healthy diet would include enough protein and protein shakes straight after help too. 
All this is easily achievable for someone like femshep.
Most women don't look like this because most women don't try or only do cadio if they do. I go to one of the biggest universities in Australia and I'm nearly always the only girl in the weights room if not the whole gym. This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try. 

#58
D.Kain

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Em23 wrote...

You shouldn't do muscle workouts for longer than 50 mins or you body starts to cannibailse. By gym I don't mean a light cardio jog, I mean work out arms one day, then legs the next day, then abs the day after, then a swim the day after that, maybe some yoga and repeat. AT LEAST 4 times per week, 5-6 is better. Proper, hard work during the full 50 mins. Add an active lifestyle on top and yes, you can do it.
It takes commitment and you have to love it but you can do it.
A healthy diet would include enough protein and protein shakes straight after help too. 
All this is easily achievable for someone like femshep.
Most women don't look like this because most women don't try or only do cadio if they do. I go to one of the biggest universities in Australia and I'm nearly always the only girl in the weights room if not the whole gym. This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try. 


You are awesome! I wish there would be more girls like you! <3

#59
Sylvianus

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Em23 wrote...
This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try. 

If the girls need to work to overcome the physical strength of a man, so it's natural. Men are heavier, stronger, it's organic.

Muscle men grow and extend as far more easily.

As studies show that girls are more able to adapt to their environment, to focus and do multiple tasks simultaneously.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 07 juin 2011 - 09:05 .


#60
D.Kain

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Sylvianus wrote...

Em23 wrote...
This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try. 

If the girls need to work to overcome the physical strength of a man, so it's natural. Men are heavier, stronger, it's organic.

Muscle men grow and extend as far more easily.

As studies show that girls are more able to adapt to their environment, to focus and do multiple tasks simultaneously.



She says exaggerated not absent.

#61
Ziggy

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lol thanks D.Kain!

#62
jeweledleah

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Em23 wrote...

You shouldn't do muscle workouts for longer than 50 mins or you body starts to cannibailse. By gym I don't mean a light cardio jog, I mean work out arms one day, then legs the next day, then abs the day after, then a swim the day after that, maybe some yoga and repeat. AT LEAST 4 times per week, 5-6 is better. Proper, hard work during the full 50 mins. Add an active lifestyle on top and yes, you can do it.
It takes commitment and you have to love it but you can do it.
A healthy diet would include enough protein and protein shakes straight after help too. 
All this is easily achievable for someone like femshep.
Most women don't look like this because most women don't try or only do cadio if they do. I go to one of the biggest universities in Australia and I'm nearly always the only girl in the weights room if not the whole gym. This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try. 


you are assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about.  you don't lift weights several hours in a row, you do high intensity workouts.  several times a day.  and you mix them up with cardio, all in the same day.   protein requirements to build muscle are higher then general maintenance diet for a normal person, even a soldier.  body building/competitive fitness and fitness modeling?  its highly specialized and a lot more precise then people realize.
as for weakness?  you do realize that its not the size that counts, yes?  women naturaly have smaller muscle mass because, guess what - we don't produce the same ammount of testasterone that men do, we have more estrogen and progesterone instead.  and what's required to build larger looking muscle?  yep, you guessed it.  its also the reason why healthy body fat percentage for men is much lower then that for women.  becasue physiologicaly our bodies serve a bit different function.  women being naturaly capably of higher physical flexibility is not an accident.  Women tend to be better snipers as well.  we have our strengths.  they are just not the same as that of men.

when I just started lifting weights, I used to be afraid that I'll get big and ripped like those models in magazines, and being a mesomorph I actualy had more casue for concern then some.  I didn't want to be ripped, I just wanted to be toned.  I shouldn't have worried.  unless you specificaly work towards a goal of looking ripped like that and it requires a lot more effort then what you describe for a woman.  you are going to build muscle, and you're going to build strength, but you won't look like a fitness model in a picture.

your workout split is a bit strange.  a whole separate day for abs?  no chest/back workout at all? 

femshep probably should have larger looking arms.  you do enough sparring and punching and you cannot help but end up with slightly bigger shoulders and bigger biceps and triceps, but it won't be anywhere near bodybuilder size and you will only see any sort of definition while its at work and/or deliberately flexed.

look at images of female athletes that aren't models sometimes.  professional athletes.  look at images of female fighters - the ones that don't use anabolic steroids that is, heck: here's one. does she look like that model?  nope.  does she look fit?  I'd say so. 

Image IPB

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 juin 2011 - 09:40 .


#63
JigPig

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Em23 wrote...
This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try. 


The strongest man on earth is stronger than the strongest women.
The fastest man on earth is faster than the fastest women. The top 10 fastest speeds all clocked by men.
The world's highest unassisted jump, set by a man.


These are some facts that have yet to be broken.

#64
D.Kain

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jeweledleah wrote...


Image IPB


I think being fit and being able to pack a punch are different things. And I do also think that unless you are into some serious martial arts you need to have muscles in order to pack a good punch. 

This guy for example is fit too:
http://3.bp.blogspot...600/Gackt 3.jpg
but I don't think that he will make a good fighter unless as I already mentioned he is a martial arts expert.

#65
SkittlesKat96

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Maybe they just had trouble modelling it or something. ME 1 didn't have a particularly massive/bigger budget as ME 2 and ME 3.

#66
jeweledleah

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D.Kain wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...



I think being fit and being able to pack a punch are different things. And I do also think that unless you are into some serious martial arts you need to have muscles in order to pack a good punch. 

This guy for example is fit too:
http://3.bp.blogspot...600/Gackt 3.jpg
but I don't think that he will make a good fighter unless as I already mentioned he is a martial arts expert.



except the girl that I linked?  is an actual MMA fighter http://en.wikipedia....Satoko_Shinashi

you don't need to be huge or shredded in order to pack a punch.  and I would hope that special forces operative, which is what Shepard is... would be trained HOW to fight properly, one size fits all animations non-withstanding, instead of hoping they rely on brute force and hope for a lucky hit.

#67
Antivenger

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SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Maybe they just had trouble modelling it or something. ME 1 didn't have a particularly massive/bigger budget as ME 2 and ME 3.

Might have been plausible without the addition of Miranda and her 'buoyant tanks'. Just sayin'

Modifié par Antivenger, 07 juin 2011 - 09:57 .


#68
D.Kain

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jeweledleah wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...



I think being fit and being able to pack a punch are different things. And I do also think that unless you are into some serious martial arts you need to have muscles in order to pack a good punch. 

This guy for example is fit too:
http://3.bp.blogspot...600/Gackt 3.jpg
but I don't think that he will make a good fighter unless as I already mentioned he is a martial arts expert.



except the girl that I linked?  is an actual MMA fighter http://en.wikipedia....Satoko_Shinashi

you don't need to be huge or shredded in order to pack a punch.  and I would hope that special forces operative, which is what Shepard is... would be trained HOW to fight properly, one size fits all animations non-withstanding, instead of hoping they rely on brute force and hope for a lucky hit.


But you DO need muscles and not your brains to force open doors, carry Kaiden on your shoulders and crack Krogan's skull with the side of your AR. 

#69
Sylvianus

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I don't know for other sport, but I did Thai boxing some years ago. And strength, brute force had nothing to do with how to give a fist. It is an advantage but not a requirement. It would be rather flexible.

The speed and intelligent use of all his muscles and his body are the key. People weren't very muscular in my club, especially girls. The best of us, a musulman, was thin, and his knees were knobby. however, Everyone feared his shots lol.

If you train your leg or your punch to hit against a hard bag, the strongest and the fastest possible for a whole month, you'll notice quickly that the strength of your shots will be increased.

#70
P3G4SU5

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Don't underestimate their strength because of their appearance. In the 22nd century we have cybernetic implants in the form of Heavy Muscle Weave. Looks can be deceiving. ^_^

Modifié par P3G4SU5, 07 juin 2011 - 10:13 .


#71
Crocodiles

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Aren't soldiers genetically enhanced in the ME universe? Also, Shep was rebuilt, who knows if she has any upgrades, due to projec lazarus. In my mind she is the bionic woman of the future.

#72
Hattie

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JigPig wrote...

Em23 wrote...
This idea that women are naturaly much weaker than men is greatly exaggerated because they mostly dont try.


The strongest man on earth is stronger than the strongest women.
The fastest man on earth is faster than the fastest women. The top 10 fastest speeds all clocked by men.
The world's highest unassisted jump, set by a man.

These are some facts that have yet to be broken.


Sheesh so easily threatened, note how she said "greatly exaggerated" not "totally untrue".

Modifié par Hattie, 07 juin 2011 - 10:15 .


#73
Valikdu

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Paula Deen wrote...

For FemShep...she is light and somewhat small. Okay, that's fine. Even fit people can have that body type. But what is most jarring is that her arms are very, very weak-looking. Not muscular at all. Now, if she was using different, specific techniques, then MAYBE I could see her punching out a turian. But a Krogan? Not even a slight chance. A YAHG? Jarring doesn't even begin to describe it. It would be like Natalie Portman knocking the Hulk back with a punch to the face.


You're all forgetting one thing. Shepard is a cyborg. She has enhanced strength, endurance, etc.
And while punching the SB, and the krogan, she's also wearing powered armor.

Modifié par Valikdu, 07 juin 2011 - 02:53 .


#74
Major Tao

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 I favor athletic female characters ! 

I'll quote my comments from the "Six Female Model Shepards" discussion thread...

My concept for Captain Shepard would be someone of more mixed ethnicity.. with Eurasian features from her parents of different heritages. I expect these features to occur much more frequently as the world population mixes more and more. Ms. Shepard would also be a formidable person physically due to years of hard training and combat experience ! ( Oh yeah - where are the scars ? ) The six models presented all look to me like 20 year old models shoved into very shapely combat suits. Larry Niven presented a good argument for what he called "the Belter Crest" - because long hair gets in your way in zero gravity - so REAL Spacers would likely have a short cut -or a short mohawk at most. Space Marines also wouldn't want to provide enemies with a good handhold either ! Sorry Blondie - you've got to tie that hair back - or cut it down ! For these reasons, the six concepts -though beautiful to look at - don't fit the scenario for me.

#75
Sierra Crysis

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The hardsuits increase muscle potency and all alliance soldiers are genetically modified to be stronger/faster. In summary, muscle size does not always equal muscle density or potential. Is it odd that Femshep does what Maleshep does? Yes, is it unbelievable that she looks a little small? No, especially if she's Adept with their massive energy burn.

Edit:

I have no idea why people are calling Shepard a Cyborg when the writers have gone through great lengths to point out that Shepard is the same before death. If there are upgrades it's probably genetic enhancement. The glowy terminator scars are the healing implants that are supposed to degrade/dissolve as the healing process completes.

Modifié par Sierra Crysis, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:17 .