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On aggro


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#1
Zenocrate

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So has anyone really figured out the aggro system in this game?  Especially for rogues.

It wasn't terribly bad up until the point I'm at in the game but I'm doing the sacred urn quest and for whatever reason Alistair in heavy armor with taunt active in the middle of the action can hardly keep mobs off of Leliana, who is standing in the corner with her thumb up her *** trying not to be noticed.  Even my character, dual wield rogue, attacts more attention than Alistair from ALL of the mobs simply by auto-attacking one.

Shale seems to work fine, but I was curious to see how Alistair would do (didn't take him anywhere on my first playthrough) and it appears that he is AWFUL at tanking.

Do mobs look at potential (versus actual) damage somehow?  They seem to leave wynne alone for the most part, and she is doing waaaaay more than the two rogues.


off-topic:  "Changes has been saved!"  is the message you get after editing.  Really Bioware?  Really?

Modifié par Zenocrate, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:34 .


#2
Forumtroll

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Okay. For Alistair to be holding aggro he needs fast hitting weapon to build threat with Threaten. He'll need the HEAVIEST ARMOR possible (Blood Dragon). Mobs like attacking people in massive plate. Next you want to make sure he can't miss, get Precise Strikes. You'll have to micro Alistair or download the extra tactics mod or micro the **** out of him. You need to have him play like a WoW prot war without a way to maintain aoe threat. That means pause and switch his target a lot.



Or you could do like everyone else in the world and **** the tanks. Let Leli run into a group of mobs and FF her while she plays her stun song.

#3
Zenocrate

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In some cases he had hit a mob 2 or 3 times and its attention was STILL on leli. I had very few problems in WoW aoe tanking as a warrior. Alistair tanking is a different monster altogether >< Based on Shale on my first time through, tanking seemed fine.



Ty for the answer. Good to know it's just Alistair.

#4
veryalien

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I play on consoles and it's just one huge mess. Each battle is just a mess. I control my main character to go in and take out the magic users presto. Otherwise everyone else is just one ball of mess.



Works fine if you min/max your character to be uber :D



(I play on normal difficulty)


#5
metatrans

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are you using Combat Stealth? it drops all aggro from your rogues when they vanish. very useful.



also, Alistair needs to be in Massive type armor, have Threaten running at all times, and use Taunt whenever the cooldown is ready. that generally holds aggro on everything though. if a character pulls aggro off Alistair when he's doing that they need to use an aggro reset move, other than that it works fine.



finally, make sure you're focus firing. set your tactics so your group members use attacks on alistair's target. he can easily hold aggro on the mob he's attacking even with a rogue going nearly full tilt DPS on it.

#6
19percent

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Do you mean you have Taunt up or Threaten up? From my experience Threaten is a near useless ability, and Taunt is more or less an instant aggro. From my cursory look at threat in the toolset - and I am not a programmer by any means - here's the basics:

For warriors and mages 1 damage = 1 threat. For rogues 1 damage = 0.8 threat.
Threaten doubles threat from damage, I think Frightening Appearance triples it, not sure.
Taunt generates an immediate 300 threat on everything in range, increased to 400 with Frightening Appearance.

I haven't had any problems holding aggro with Taunt only on my Nightmare playthrough. I'm ignoring Threaten altogether so far.

When an enemy first perceives (each of your) characters they assign a random value of threat between 0 and 10. If you are not playing on Nightmare, they then assign an additional 5 threat to anyone wearing light armor and 10 threat for medium and higher (this is based on the item in your chest slot). Note that massive does not grant a bigger bonus than medium or heavy. I guess cloth by omission gets 0. They then add an additional 5 threat to anyone equipped with melee weapons. As you can see these are piddly amounts and unless I'm missing something only serve to make enemies initially focus on your tanks/warriors - a light breeze will pull aggro at this point. And as you can see, on Nightmare you only get random aggros.

As far as I can tell the "wear massive armor" thing doesn't actually do anything? But you'll be wearing it (or heavy with a dex build) anyway so whatever.

Enemies attacking a character with 20% health or lower have a 50% chance of sticking to that character even if you would otherwise pull aggro. Enemies attacking a character with 10% health or lower have a 90% chance of sticking to that character even if you would otherwise pull aggro.

There is a sort of limit to the number of times an enemy will switch targets. Every time they change targets, they'll stick to it for 5 seconds, increasing by 5 seconds for each switch (until it resets after it reaches 25 seconds). I think this is what explains my experience with Revenants, who chase people around even though they're not doing damage any more (running for their life) while everyone else is still piling on dps. The other time this is most noticeable is right after a mage aoes and pulls a bunch of aggro and you have a hard time getting them off. All this applies less to enemies using ranged weapons (don't know if this includes staves/mages or not) who are free to change targets faster.

Using abilities generates threat on top of the damage it deals. This varies depending on the ability. 100 extra threat on Arrow of Slaying, 100 on Taunt (? seems weird but I guess it's there, making it a total of 400 threat, 500 with Frightening Appearance), 50 on Walking Bomb, etc. And on hard or nightmare, Walking Bomb generates double threat on use, so 100. From my experiences, finding this out does not surprise me...
Although the wiki says the extra threat from abilities might be obsolete, so I can't say if that's how it actually works.

Also, besides the threat mechanics, enemies also have behaviours. Depending on the enemy they might try to avoid melee, avoid nearby enemies, prefer to use melee or ranged weapons, give chase or not, etc.

P.S. I have no idea how Dog and Shale work with Threat.

tl;dr - press the Taunt button. Force Field optional.

edit: hopefully correcting weird random forum formatting.

Modifié par 19percent, 20 novembre 2009 - 07:54 .


#7
dannythefool

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I do use Threaten, but having the tank use Taunt when necessary makes all the difference. If you don't want to micro-manage the tank you can still set him up to taunt automatically, make a rule like "if party member suchandsuch is being attacked, taunt". In one game I had Alistair set to taunt whenever he got a chance to (triggering on Self->Any) and that was enough for 99% of the battles. Sometimes you get stragglers that aren't close enough to the tank, but you can just have the tank walk over to them, dragging all other enemies along, and whack the straggler until he has its attention as well.