93 réponses à ce sujet

[LGTX]

Guys, remember Klendagon? The Great Rift, caused by a mass accelerator round which was aimed at a Reaper? The bombardments are probably attempts at a scorched earth response from *other* civilizations who were trying to repel the invasion. Sloppy work, the Reapers are better than that.

[Schneidend]

"Reaper" would not be a very fitting epithet if all they did was completely destroy everything. You'll recall that they want to harvest species to make new reapers for some nefarious purpose.

Modifié par Schneidend, 08 juin 2011 - 11:32 .

[Pride Demon]

jamesp81 wrote...

Larg_Kellein wrote...

They work on cycles of thousands of years, not millions. By that logic, their interest would be only in wiping out high level life, as it'd take far too long for new useful life to pop up from a planet that was left as a crater. Even 50k years seems on the short side assuming they'd leave apes and other mammals for new intelligence to develop from, with cro-magnon man existing about 30-40k years ago.

So that'd leave only 10k years to go from glass parking lot planet to primitive man for the next cycle,assuming 30-40k from primitive man to ftl travel again. So yeah, nuking the site from orbit isn't always the solution.

As for why the cycle matters at all, now that's a good question. For all we know, it could be for some kind of machine-lulz, but I sort of doubt it, hillarious as it'd be.

In the end, all we can know for sure is this: Reapers gonna reap.

They only harvest species that have achieved significant space flight.  For example, if the Reapers came tomorrow, odds are they'd just ignore Earth of 2011.  They'd save us for the next round.

Quoted for truth... For they did already...

Humans (the ****** genus) have been around for roughly 2.3 million years, that's quite a few cycles...
But wait, there's more: Cro-Magnon humans, who were the very first examples of moderm human beings (****** Sapiens Sapiens), are dated back to no more than 35000 years ago, so by the time the Protheans were being destroyed we were still "merely" ****** Sapiens and Neanderthals...

See what I mean? No? Well, think back to Eletania, it describes the memories of a Cro-Magnon kidnapped by Protheans for study, the problem being the Protheans had already been dead for 15000 years by the time the Cro-Magnon appeared...
That means, the Cro-Magnon was not taken in by the Protheans, he was taken in by COLLECTORS (the modus operandi is feasible: implanting a camera in a creature's skull and then recovering it for study)...

The Protheans never had a base on Mars: those ruins where PLANTED there by Reaper agents, when they realized the humans were possible good candidates for harvesting.
After every cycle the reapers scan for new prospects, move relays around and plant ruins of previous civilizations as to allow said prospects to evolve to the point the can be reaped! Makes you wonder if the Prothean ruins on Kahje were actually there in the first place!

Modifié par Pride Demon, 08 juin 2011 - 11:36 .

[Vengeful Nature]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Found those links I was looking for. The planets of Aphras, Etamis, Bothros, Joab and Tosal Nym all appear to have suffered from RKV bombardment.

And yet there is no evidence that the Reapers were the culprits on any of these planets.

I'll concede that, but it's heavily hinted at. The fact that the same death crops up across the galaxy for 4 different spacefaring civilisations was clearly meant as an allusion to previous Reaper activity. What's the saying? Something about 2 being a coincidence, 3 being a clue, or something?

This is a process that has been going on for millions of years, if not longer. The Protheans weren't the first race in the galaxy. What's to say that another civilization didn't do it? Five planets have been bombarded from orbit, must be the Reapers. That's like saying five buildings blew up, must be Al-Qaeda.

Nothing. But because they are threads that are left open, with no real explanation so as to maintain the mystery, it is pretty clear to me that these entries are allusions to previous Reaper activity. Take Eingana for example. That planet also experienced a catastrophic extinction event, but we are explicitly told that it happened during a war over colonisation rights between two spacefaring species. Reaper action can be safely discounted, because in this case, the writers have specified that it was a war between civilisations of roughly the same technological level.

Aphras, Etamis, Bothros, Joab and Tosal Nym are all purposefuly left open. So the agent that performed these acts, with a similar MO throughout time and across a large region of space, was acting out of the shadows and leaving very little clues as to their presense, aside from the sparse and crumbling ruins of the destroyed civilisation itself. Sound like anyone we know of, to you at all?

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 08 juin 2011 - 11:41 .

[Vengeful Nature]

Pride Demon wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Larg_Kellein wrote...

They work on cycles of thousands of years, not millions. By that logic, their interest would be only in wiping out high level life, as it'd take far too long for new useful life to pop up from a planet that was left as a crater. Even 50k years seems on the short side assuming they'd leave apes and other mammals for new intelligence to develop from, with cro-magnon man existing about 30-40k years ago.

So that'd leave only 10k years to go from glass parking lot planet to primitive man for the next cycle,assuming 30-40k from primitive man to ftl travel again. So yeah, nuking the site from orbit isn't always the solution.

As for why the cycle matters at all, now that's a good question. For all we know, it could be for some kind of machine-lulz, but I sort of doubt it, hillarious as it'd be.

In the end, all we can know for sure is this: Reapers gonna reap.

They only harvest species that have achieved significant space flight.  For example, if the Reapers came tomorrow, odds are they'd just ignore Earth of 2011.  They'd save us for the next round.

Quoted for truth... For they did already...

Humans (the ****** genus) have been around for roughly 2.3 million years, that's quite a few cycles...
But wait, there's more: Cro-Magnon humans, who were the very first examples of moderm human beings (****** Sapiens Sapiens), are dated back to no more than 35000 years ago, so by the time the Protheans were being destroyed we were still "merely" ****** Sapiens and Neanderthals...

See what I mean? No? Well, think back to Eletania, it describes the memories of a Cro-Magnon kidnapped by Protheans for study, the problem being the Protheans had already been dead for 15000 years by the time the Cro-Magnon appeared...
That means, the Cro-Magnon was not taken in by the Protheans, he was taken in by COLLECTORS (the modus operandi is feasible: implanting a camera in a creature's skull and then recovering it for study)...

The Protheans never had a base on Mars: those ruins where PLANTED there by Reaper agents, when they realized the humans were possible good candidates for harvesting.
After every cycle the reapers scan for new prospects, move relays around and plant ruins of previous civilizations as to allow said prospects to evolve to the point the can be reaped! Makes you wonder if the Prothean ruins on Kahje were actually there in the first place!

I like this theory. I have read in other threads that the timeline here was a simple mistake on the part of Bioware and that it was indeed the Protheans on Mars. But this theory is too awesome for that. I'm adding this to my tinfoil hat-topped pile.

[Schneidend]

Pride Demon wrote...

Quoted for truth... For they did already...

Humans (the ****** genus) have been around for roughly 2.3 million years, that's quite a few cycles...
But wait, there's more: Cro-Magnon humans, who were the very first examples of moderm human beings (****** Sapiens Sapiens), are dated back to no more than 35000 years ago, so by the time the Protheans were being destroyed we were still "merely" ****** Sapiens and Neanderthals...

See what I mean? No? Well, think back to Eletania, it describes the memories of a Cro-Magnon kidnapped by Protheans for study, the problem being the Protheans had already been dead for 15000 years by the time the Cro-Magnon appeared...
That means, the Cro-Magnon was not taken in by the Protheans, he was taken in by COLLECTORS (the modus operandi is feasible: implanting a camera in a creature's skull and then recovering it for study)...

The Protheans never had a base on Mars: those ruins where PLANTED there by Reaper agents, when they realized the humans were possible good candidates for harvesting.
After every cycle the reapers scan for new prospects, move relays around and plant ruins of previous civilizations as to allow said prospects to evolve to the point the can be reaped! Makes you wonder if the Prothean ruins on Kahje were actually there in the first place!

Pretty awesome theories, there, amigo.

[Pride Demon]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Found those links I was looking for. The planets of Aphras, Etamis, Bothros, Joab and Tosal Nym all appear to have suffered from RKV bombardment.

And yet there is no evidence that the Reapers were the culprits on any of these planets.

I'll concede that, but it's heavily hinted at. The fact that the same death crops up across the galaxy for 4 different spacefaring civilisations was clearly meant as an allusion to previous Reaper activity. What's the saying? Something about 2 being a coincidence, 3 being a clue, or something?

This is a process that has been going on for millions of years, if not longer. The Protheans weren't the first race in the galaxy. What's to say that another civilization didn't do it? Five planets have been bombarded from orbit, must be the Reapers. That's like saying five buildings blew up, must be Al-Qaeda.

Nothing. But because they are threads that are left open, with no real explanation so as to maintain the mystery, it is pretty clear to me that these entries are allusions to previous Reaper activity. Take Eingana for example. That planet also experienced a catastrophic extinction event, but we are explicitly told that it happened during a war over colonisation rights between two spacefaring species. Reaper action can be safely discounted, because in this case, the writers have specified that it was a war between civilisations of roughly the same technological level.

Aphras, Etamis, Bothros, Joab and Tosal Nym are all purposefuly left open. So the agent that performed these acts, with a similar MO throughout time and across a large region of space, was acting out of the shadows and leaving very little clues as to their presense, aside from the sparse and crumbling ruins of the destroyed civilisation itself. Sound like anyone we know of, to you at all?

We know it (we played the game) the ME galaxy does not, those texts are the "official" in universe description from the planet databases in the Extranet...

Eigana is said to be what it is because it is littered with carcasses of alien starships, but for all we know that may have been a united front against the Reapers and they all died fighting against them insted of each other...

The other planets have only Eezo traces and craters... I doubt archeological studies are not going on on those planets, but again even in our hystory many populations have suddently disappered, we give for a fact they were destroyed in war (with other or among themselves), we definitely don't go out of our way to find quirky explanations for it unless there's definitive evidence, and like I said everyone with even just one dreadnought can bombard a planet from orbit...

[KiraTsukasa]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Found those links I was looking for. The planets of Aphras, Etamis, Bothros, Joab and Tosal Nym all appear to have suffered from RKV bombardment.

And yet there is no evidence that the Reapers were the culprits on any of these planets.

I'll concede that, but it's heavily hinted at. The fact that the same death crops up across the galaxy for 4 different spacefaring civilisations was clearly meant as an allusion to previous Reaper activity. What's the saying? Something about 2 being a coincidence, 3 being a clue, or something?

This is a process that has been going on for millions of years, if not longer. The Protheans weren't the first race in the galaxy. What's to say that another civilization didn't do it? Five planets have been bombarded from orbit, must be the Reapers. That's like saying five buildings blew up, must be Al-Qaeda.

Nothing. But because they are threads that are left open, with no real explanation so as to maintain the mystery, it is pretty clear to me that these entries are allusions to previous Reaper activity. Take Eingana for example. That planet also experienced a catastrophic extinction event, but we are explicitly told that it happened during a war over colonisation rights between two spacefaring species. Reaper action can be safely discounted, because in this case, the writers have specified that it was a war between civilisations of roughly the same technological level.

Aphras, Etamis, Bothros, Joab and Tosal Nym are all purposefuly left open. So the agent that performed these acts, with a similar MO throughout time and across a large region of space, was acting out of the shadows and leaving very little clues as to their presense, aside from the sparse and crumbling ruins of the destroyed civilisation itself. Sound like anyone we know of, to you at all?

To quote what Liara said in ME1, "There is very little left of the Protheans, even less of those who came before." For all we know, it could have been the bug creatures from Starship Troopers that did it. Just because there is no longer evidence of a different civilization, doesn't automatically mean Reapers. Could it have been them? Sure. Is it a definite fact? Not in the slightest. Assuming facts not in evidence is not a good way to prove your case.

[Durgon Ironfist]

Reapers do not invade for the sake of genocide. Their purpose has been outlined in the events of ME1 & ME2 with many theories and supporting evidence. Species they deem worthy are used to create new reapers, others are used as a labor force (like the collectors), and they harvest useful technology and resources.

[Vengeful Nature]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Edit - snipped the vast quote pyramid.

To quote what Liara said in ME1, "There is very little left of the Protheans, even less of those who came before." For all we know, it could have been the bug creatures from Starship Troopers that did it. Just because there is no longer evidence of a different civilization, doesn't automatically mean Reapers. Could it have been them? Sure. Is it a definite fact? Not in the slightest. Assuming facts not in evidence is not a good way to prove your case.

I agree, but the evidence is all there. It's all about how you interpret it. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 08 juin 2011 - 12:00 .

[Yakko77]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

The Reapers seem to rely on fear and intimidation as a tactic and what better way to do that than take you miles long death ray shooting self and land right on top of those you want to conquer.

This doesn't make sense. Do you have to see something to be scared of it? If anything, the prospect of virtually indestructible AI dreadnoughts millions of years old, responsible for countless instances of galaxy-wide genocide, hanging hundreds of thousands of kilometers away in space, bombarding Earth with complete impunity, gives me more shivers than the things turning up and squatting over our cities for no apparent reason. That's what attracted me to the Reaper part of the ME universe in the first place: the sheer, cold, machine-efficient and impersonal nature of the things.

Fear and intimidation as a weapon can be applied in many different versions.  It seems the Reapers prefer to be up close and personal with their fear and intimidation tactics.

[nitrog100]

Why do they bother attacking the galaxy at all? There's already tons of them. Why do they even bother if they live for millions of years? The whole things seems rather pointless from an outside perspective.

[Yakko77]

nitrog100 wrote...

Why do they bother attacking the galaxy at all? There's already tons of them. Why do they even bother if they live for millions of years? The whole things seems rather pointless from an outside perspective.

The galaxy is pretty big.  The universe as a whole between galaxy to galaxy is just.... beyond words, even for a Reaper I would imagine.

[Anihilus]

Actually the way the Reapers attack makes some sense. Their tactics are similar to the Goa'uld from Stargate.

1. Assault from orbit destroy any ships defending the planet
2. Disrupt communications worldwide
3. Bomb a few cities
4. Land and enslave
5. Gloat to taste (although whether or not the Reapers do this is up for debate)

[TexasToast712]

1. They are looking for something. Why else would they land the majority of the Reaper fleet on Earth?

2. They also want to indoctrinate and repurpose the species they conquer, not bombard them into dust.

[HTTP 404]

The reapers are looking to "uplift" and save the human race "forever" by making them a reaper. In the last ME novel, civilizations are fleeting and do no last long if left to their own devices. By making a civilization a reaper, they save that civilization forever because Reapers can live forever. They won't bombard Earth to exterminate them but to go down and harvest them.

The batarians for example, could have been bombarded out of existence.

edit: for clarification and to not detract from the point I was tring to make, humans are genetically compatible, other species are apparently not, not saying ALL civilizations can be "uplifted" to become a reaper.  Also to clarify, the batarians could have been bombarded didn't mean to say they were definitely bombarded.  sigh. 

Modifié par HTTP 404, 13 juin 2011 - 06:30 .

[moneycashgeorge]

This argument is nonsensical. The Reapers reap. They are named that for a reason. They reap things. Do you know what that word means? The Reapers are not just the bringers of the apocalypse or something, they have a goal, which is to reap. Do not criticize that yet, presumably the details of their reaping motivations and methods will be explained in ME3.

They are not the Killers, or the Genociders, or the Exterminators, or Relativistic Mass Accelerators, they are the Reapers, and the reason they land on planets is that Reapers gonna Reap.

[silentassassin264]

Not all spacefaring species are ascended by the Reapers. Some don't make good Reapers because of lack of genetic diversity and would only be good as indoctrinated slaves like the Collectors. If they resisted indoctrinated/Collectorization then being destroyed from orbit would be an option. They do not want to destroy humanity because they actually have a purpose.

Also there is no proof the Reapers bombed those other planets.

[nitrog100]

Anihilus wrote...

Actually the way the Reapers attack makes some sense. Their tactics are similar to the Goa'uld from Stargate.

1. Assault from orbit destroy any ships defending the planet
2. Disrupt communications worldwide
3. Bomb a few cities
4. Land and enslave
5. Gloat to taste (although whether or not the Reapers do this is up for debate)

Yeah, the Goa'uld aren't really like the Reapers. First of all, the Goa'uld demand to be worshipped. The Reapers have nothing but disdain for the lower beings that worship them. Second, the Reapers are a machine race and the Goa'uld are organic symbiotes. Thirdly, the stargates were not created by the Goa'uld. That, and there are many races more powerful than the Goa'uld, such as the Replicators, Asgard, and Nox.