81 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Fortlowe wrote...

What if the Reapers are attempting to 'save us'? The Tali recruitment mission brought up dark matter killing stars as a possible threat. Perhaps there is some massive cyclical cosmic event involving dark matter that would completely wipe out all life in the galaxy and what the Reapers are doing is meant to preserve as much of it as they can in the only manner that is possible?

The easier solution for the Reapers would be to explain that to the organics and let some of them climb aboard and get the heck out of the galaxy.  Why destroy everything?  

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wonder about powering an asteroid into a mass relay in a system they are harvesting?

I don't think the Reapers are trying to "save us" due to that dark matter killing stars. I think Cerberus might be behind that. Harvesting to "save us" from that would require a huge leap of logic concerning quantum mechanics.

Another thing is that according to Vigil it took a few centuries for the Reapers to completely obliterate them. The war lasted decades.

In my theory, the harvests in the past took centuires because the Reapers went planet by planet, gathering, sorting, and exchanging all the genetics they found before moving on to the next world.  This time around, Shepard is going to pull all the allied armies into a massive throwdown on Earth and devestate the Reapers from there.

[sponge56]

Feel free to flame me for this, but anyone else think that the Reapers are an experiment gone wrong. One of the Cerberus daily news articles mentions a civilisation which uploaded themselves into computers to escape death, and I think the reapers are similar. A civilisation wished to destroy death, so they fused themselves into a machine, thus making them 'immortal'. As saren said, you then have the 'strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither'. However after doing this the 'reapers' (after all, sovereign admits that they not even really called that, just a 'label from the protheans'), being both organic and machine, get warped and wish to make all organic life like them. The reapers become almost religious in this respect, they see it as there duty to 'convert' all organic life to their 'perfect' form. This may be because their machine logic is flawed due to their organic influences, maybe organic views on religion and faith have been warped into the programming of the reapers? Any thoughts on this?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

sponge56 wrote...

Feel free to flame me for this, but anyone else think that the Reapers are an experiment gone wrong.

[snips]

However after doing this the 'reapers' (after all, sovereign admits that they not even really called that, just a 'label from the protheans'), being both organic and machine, get warped and wish to make all organic life like them. The reapers become almost religious in this respect, they see it as there duty to 'convert' all organic life to their 'perfect' form. This may be because their machine logic is flawed due to their organic influences, maybe organic views on religion and faith have been warped into the programming of the reapers? Any thoughts on this?

I don't think they're warped or have gone wrong at all.  Whatever their origin, I think they come to the galaxy to harvest organics and make use of those new ways of thinking and strange developements like biotics.  I don't think they became corrupt so much as they're like a colonial power visiting a new part of the world, witnessing something abhorent, and doing their best to set things right.  To the Reapers, gathering the weak, fragile, unique organics into a giant, sentient starship makes sense... because they're helping the organics out of a disgusting situation.

[Dannyboy9876]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Wouldn't it be awesome if we never find out the reaper's true intentions?

Like maybe we get an inclination by the end of the game, but not a full-blown reason? IMO, that'd be terrific. It'll really preserve the mystery of the reapers.

yeah, I'd like that too. I'd rather have an idea (not a confirmation) of their motives, they'd be very mysterious.

[sponge56]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Feel free to flame me for this, but anyone else think that the Reapers are an experiment gone wrong.

[snips]

However after doing this the 'reapers' (after all, sovereign admits that they not even really called that, just a 'label from the protheans'), being both organic and machine, get warped and wish to make all organic life like them. The reapers become almost religious in this respect, they see it as there duty to 'convert' all organic life to their 'perfect' form. This may be because their machine logic is flawed due to their organic influences, maybe organic views on religion and faith have been warped into the programming of the reapers? Any thoughts on this?

I don't think they're warped or have gone wrong at all.  Whatever their origin, I think they come to the galaxy to harvest organics and make use of those new ways of thinking and strange developements like biotics.  I don't think they became corrupt so much as they're like a colonial power visiting a new part of the world, witnessing something abhorent, and doing their best to set things right.  To the Reapers, gathering the weak, fragile, unique organics into a giant, sentient starship makes sense... because they're helping the organics out of a disgusting situation.

When I said warped I meant in a programming context.  For example, I think the Reapers inclusion of organics into a machine have made them behave irrationally (like organics) but relentlessly (becasue they are machines).  Just imagine what would happen if someone with a fundamentlaist view was turned into a machine, whose only purpose or only things they could understand was to follow out their views.  Although I agree with you when you say the reapers are harvesting us all for the 'greater good'.

[Thalador]

sponge56 wrote...

Feel free to flame me for this, but anyone else think that the Reapers are an experiment gone wrong. One of the Cerberus daily news articles mentions a civilisation which uploaded themselves into computers to escape death, and I think the reapers are similar. A civilisation wished to destroy death, so they fused themselves into a machine, thus making them 'immortal'. As saren said, you then have the 'strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither'. However after doing this the 'reapers' (after all, sovereign admits that they not even really called that, just a 'label from the protheans'), being both organic and machine, get warped and wish to make all organic life like them. The reapers become almost religious in this respect, they see it as there duty to 'convert' all organic life to their 'perfect' form. This may be because their machine logic is flawed due to their organic influences, maybe organic views on religion and faith have been warped into the programming of the reapers? Any thoughts on this?

This is a rather neat theory. Sovereign actually called himself Nazara (he introduced himself that way to the geth), which could imply that they - once - were an organic life form. Maybe the race that uploaded itself into the gigantic dreadnaught named each ship after a god of their religion (the first of the Reapers). The other explanation for the name if we take what Legion said literally: "we are each a nation." Meaning that "Nazara" could have been a culture or nation. Though I find this less likely... Instead, by nation he probably meant hundreds or thousands of millions of programs/runtimes/processes in one Reaper body.

[JBurnes3]

AurinShepard wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The raloi?

They've just been discovered, but I don't think they're advanced enough to draw attention from the Reapers.

They are intelligent and that will draw attention from the Reapers. The Reapers destroy all intelligent life and leave only rudimentary life becaues any intelligent species that has any clue about what happened to the galaxy they would prepare for or search for the Reapers and attempt to destroy them. If the Raloi are overlooked they would do everything they could to deny the Reapers in the future. They would go down new paths of technology, manupulate the Citadel and Relay systems to their benefit and out of Reaper Control and raise new intellegent species in a similar matter to avoid the fate of the previous galactic civilization pretty much destroying every advantage the Reapers have. This the Reapers cannot allow and thus the Raloi's fate is sealed if the Reapers are not beaten back.

This is not true. They have to be spacefaring. At least, according to everything currently known. Humans were "intelligent" to an extent as cavemen and in ME1 the Prothean artifact on Eletania provides evidence that the Protheans were aware of humans. The Reapers would have known of the human existence when they harvested the Protheans.

Yeah, but Cavemen were not spacefaring or aware of the Protheans' existance. The Raloi have made first contact and are aware of the existance of a greater galactic community. So that actually gives the Reapers a reason to destroy the Raloi.

[Purge the heathens]

I think the final battle of Mass Effect 3 will be a philosophical debate with Harbinger that's transmitted to every other Reaper in the galaxy. You convince the entire species that everything they've ever done was totally pointless and thus, with their purpose lost, they self-destruct.

Seriously. I wanted to say something about the dark energy buildup and its effect on stars. I think this is in preparation for the next cycle. The CDN story about the TR-15 Letus Probe mentions "dark switches" on the mass relays that allow the control of radiation transmission through the mass relays. And the wiki has this to say:

Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet, is affected by the energy of a star going supernova.

Energy, radiation, whatever. So, maybe the Reapers, after harvesting galactic civilization and most of the galaxy's eezo, blow up a few suns and spread the love through the mass relays to create new eezo for their next victims to mine?


And I've always preferred the theory that the Reapers began with an organic race continually upgrading itself through cybernetics and other means until it decided that being a giant spaceship was the perfect form of existence. And that everyone else should be that way, too. Plus, there was this one comment by Sovereign:

We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years
after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will
endure.

I've always interpreted this as meaning that the concept of Reapers, not necessarily the current species, is eternal. There was the Antilin ghost ship whose creators reached a similiar status entirely without Reaper interference (well, apart from the relays), even though they did so more out of necessity (at least that's what they're telling people) and I think Sovereign meant that, even if his species is destroyed, other civilizations will eventually turn themselves into new Reapers and thus, the cycle begins anew. Anyway, I'd be disappointed if we got a definite explanation of the Reapers' motives and it amounted to "They're crazy/off their meds/malfunctioning." I'd prefer them to act out of genuine and sincere belief in their ideology, something like them being the custodians of the galaxy who wait to see if evolution churns out something useful by itself, then take and perfect it.

[Skirata129]

I'm curious what counts as advanced enough to harvest. if you completed the Asari consort trinket sidequest in ME 1 you learn that the protheans were interacting with us while we were cro magnons, so why weren't we picked up then?

[sponge56]

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm curious what counts as advanced enough to harvest. if you completed the Asari consort trinket sidequest in ME 1 you learn that the protheans were interacting with us while we were cro magnons, so why weren't we picked up then?

Because we had nothing the reapers could use?

[marshalleck]

sponge56 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm curious what counts as advanced enough to harvest. if you completed the Asari consort trinket sidequest in ME 1 you learn that the protheans were interacting with us while we were cro magnons, so why weren't we picked up then?

Because we had nothing the reapers could use?

Assuming they want us for more than our "genetic diversity."

If that's not the case, and the only reason they want us is because we make excellent grey goo when rendered down by nanites, then they should have just snatched us up then. Genetically modern humans existed 50,000 years ago, and were the subjects of Prothean study and observation.

[sponge56]

marshalleck wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm curious what counts as advanced enough to harvest. if you completed the Asari consort trinket sidequest in ME 1 you learn that the protheans were interacting with us while we were cro magnons, so why weren't we picked up then?

Because we had nothing the reapers could use?

Assuming they want us for more than our "genetic diversity."

If that's not the case, and the only reason they want us is because we make excellent grey goo when rendered down by nanites, then they should have just snatched us up then. Genetically modern humans existed 50,000 years ago, and were the subjects of Prothean study and observation.

Maybe they actively leave out species for the next cycle.  If you reap everything remotely intelligent without letting it develop, then threres nothing for the next cycle.  Wouldnt want the reapers to get bored

[EternalPink]

I don't think we can use the fight with sovereign as a sign of how fleet to fleet combat would go since when he first arrived in citadel space he had the geth backing him up and then when the alliance shows up he's within the citadel itself so even if the alliance had a one shot reaper killer gun they wouldn't have been able to use it due to the huge collateral damage it would have caused.

In ME1 we are sent after a probe that contains a 20 megaton nuclear device so we still have highly destructive weapons it would just be a case of getting a reaper into a position where we could actually use such weapons without killing ourselves or the people we are attempting to save.

[Ice Cold J]

sponge56 wrote...

Feel free to flame me for this, but anyone else think that the Reapers are an experiment gone wrong. One of the Cerberus daily news articles mentions a civilisation which uploaded themselves into computers to escape death, and I think the reapers are similar. A civilisation wished to destroy death, so they fused themselves into a machine, thus making them 'immortal'. As saren said, you then have the 'strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither'. However after doing this the 'reapers' (after all, sovereign admits that they not even really called that, just a 'label from the protheans'), being both organic and machine, get warped and wish to make all organic life like them. The reapers become almost religious in this respect, they see it as there duty to 'convert' all organic life to their 'perfect' form. This may be because their machine logic is flawed due to their organic influences, maybe organic views on religion and faith have been warped into the programming of the reapers? Any thoughts on this?

I don't know if I came up with this or someone else on these boards, but I would not be surprised if the Reapers are time travellers from the distant future attempting to eliminate/surpress all organic life.

[sponge56]

Ice Cold J wrote...



I don't know if I came up with this or someone else on these boards, but I would not be surprised if the Reapers are time travellers from the distant future attempting to eliminate/surpress all organic life.

I would blow up with anger if that was the real reason

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Purge the heathens wrote...

I think the final battle of Mass Effect 3 will be a philosophical debate with Harbinger that's transmitted to every other Reaper in the galaxy.

You convince the entire species that everything they've ever done
was totally pointless and thus, with their purpose lost, they
self-destruct.

Ring, ring!  Bergman's calling.  :happy::happy::happy:

Seriously. I wanted to say something about the dark energy buildup and its effect on stars. I think this is in preparation for the next cycle. The CDN story about the TR-15 Letus Probe mentions "dark switches" on the mass relays that allow the control of radiation transmission through the mass relays. And the wiki has this to say:

Energy, radiation, whatever. So, maybe the Reapers, after harvesting galactic civilization and most of the galaxy's eezo, blow up a few suns and spread the love through the mass relays to create new eezo for their next victims to mine?

Interesting, idea!  All the energy baking planet's surfaces would also probably mutate the crap out of whatever was living there at that time, so whatever came next would probably be totally different from what came before.  The Reapers are essentially playing Jack (not that more than 1 in 5 of you know what that is).  They irradate worlds, grab all the unique genes that rise from it, then bounce the ball again.  Love it!

I've always interpreted this as meaning that the concept of Reapers, not necessarily the current species, is eternal. There was the Antilin ghost ship whose creators reached a similiar status entirely without Reaper interference

...

and I think Sovereign meant that, even if his species is destroyed, other civilizations will eventually turn themselves into new Reapers and thus, the cycle begins anew.

I some how missed the entire Antilin ghost ship saga!  It might be that the next functional step up in civilization from family --> tribe --> city --> nation --> planet is "starship," but the Antilin's made the technological leap before their society was ready for it.  Thus, they lack the aggression that the Reapers have towards bringing their form of civilization to the other races.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

sponge56 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...



I don't know if I came up with this or someone else on these boards, but I would not be surprised if the Reapers are time travellers from the distant future attempting to eliminate/surpress all organic life.

I would blow up with anger if that was the real reason

Time travel would make me very sad.

[MinotaurWarrior]

My personal theory is that one race long ago looked back at galactic history and saw that there was a cycle of destruction, as one race after another rose, warred, conquered, and was conquered (think of the nations on earth). Each time this happened, a great deal was lost forever. Cultures, biological tricks, technologies, psychological outlooks, religions, all destroyed completely. But there was an upside to this cycle, as from the ashes of each civilization a new one was born, with its own unique advantages. The race that would create the first reaper came to dominance, looked around, and decided to take their opportunity to change the way the galaxy worked, farming and preserving the uniqueness of each new race (by transforming them into reapers), reaping just as the races of the galaxy reached their peaks, before they were forced to war with and destroy one another.

Modifié par MinotaurWarrior, 12 juin 2011 - 05:25 .

[mikejcroc]

This is a little off topic but we have to remember that this is only ONE galaxy we are talking about here. In the overall scheme of things, there are millions of other galaxies out there.

On topic:
I have a feeling the reapers are closely related to eezo in some way or another. I don't have a source but I remember reading that Sovereign had a massive element zero core. This leads me to believe that in order to "reproduce" the reapers not only have to have genetic paste from the organics, but open access to large sources of eezo. As previously stated, eezo was created from matter receiving energy from stars going supernova. On Haestrom, the star might be going supernova early from an unknown source of dark energy. Coincidence?

[Ice Cold J]

sponge56 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...



I don't know if I came up with this or someone else on these boards, but I would not be surprised if the Reapers are time travellers from the distant future attempting to eliminate/surpress all organic life.

I would blow up with anger if that was the real reason

I concur. It's just a theory.

[alihou]

I think whatever the weakness of the Reapers will be, it'll be something we hear off for the first time in this game... Think about it, most people aren't ME diehards... They don't read the books or do extra research on the lore... They're not going to research the Protheans etc. or the origins etc... If they do bring up something we already know, new/casual gamers will be WTF is this thing?!? They will have to spoon feed the story and spend a lot of time explaining it b/c many will be confused... I don't want to say it...but a possible deus ex machina... something that we will have to explore and find out in a mission at some point in the game...

[thatguyhasgone]

Ice Cold J wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...



I don't know if I came up with this or someone else on these boards, but I would not be surprised if the Reapers are time travellers from the distant future attempting to eliminate/surpress all organic life.

I would blow up with anger if that was the real reason

I concur. It's just a theory.

Strictly speaking hypothesis, Theory has evidence to support it. Hypothesis is just a good guess based on observation

[medcsu]

We know (thus far) that there are 4 different types of Reapers:
1) Harbinger - Large and has the typical Reaper Shell. Yet he seems to be twice the size of other ships at the end of ME2 (albeit it could be just the angle of the picture). However, Harbinger has 4 distinct yellow colored lighting and besides his 6 legs (per say), he has no frontal tentacles that dangle, such as others at the end of ME2.
2) Sovereign: Has 12 tentacle like legs (per say), with red tinting colors ranging from his frontal shell, to his sides, all the way around the ship shell.
3) Scarab Beetle Reaper: The most distinct difference of any Reaper is this one. Four legs which are not inverted and blue lines up/down and left/right. Also appears to have a yellow "mouth" area which is vastly different than any other known Reaper class ship.
4) Demo (Reaper Base): Much smaller in size than it's brethren. Seems to have similar weaponry and similar in shape to Harbinger, yet it has one single red optical with no side coloration. This red "eye" is probably a weapon and used for sight, yet it differs greatly from other known Reaper shells. It also (you can see when it is moving) has 4 spaced out "eye" shaped circles that have no distinguishable coloring.
5) I thought there were 4, but in fact there are many variations as shown at the end of ME2. If you view the final picture of ME2 you can clearly see that the Reaper armada, although sharing similar characteristics, also have subtle differences from coloring to number of "legs", etc.

That being said, we know that this is a mere shell and underneath is the main catalyst of what conquered race formed the Reaper. However, it is clear that all the Reapers differ yet share knowledge (I assume much like the Geth do - per what Sovereign stated in ME1).

Pretty safe to assume we will see many various shapes, sizes and possibly a FEW differing designations by the Reapers we face.