frostajulie wrote...
Hathur wrote...
Kaidan never trusted Shep, despite his professed love for her... he turned his back on her when she asked him to help and trust her motives...
Beautifully said and Killian Shepard agrees.
Then why did Kaidan follow Shepard when she mutinied and stole the Normandy? He trusted her totally then. It's subsequent developments involving Cerberus that prevent him from joining her now. He knows what Cerberus is like and can't turn off that part of his brain just because Shepard asks him to, no matter how much he has missed her and wanted to be with her in the past two years of his mourning. He can trust her motives absolutely (i.e. he believes she wants to stop the Reapers) but believe that working with Cerberus is wrong.
Ibanez2009 wrote...
As a Paragon I FULLY AGREE with you. But not as a renegade.
In all honesty, this is why I think paragon and renegade aren't always handled as they should be in Mass Effect. Renegade should be about getting the job done, whether the method is pretty or ugly. I don't think a renegade should ever cast aside a useful resource. Of course, maybe your renegade doesn't see Kaidan as useful. I'm just going from my ME1 playthrough where he was in my squad constantly. With the exception of the geth missions and Luna, where AI hacking makes a huge difference, there was never any tech requirement where he was somehow lacking compared to Tali - plus he has biotic too. :-) Although, admittedly, no shotgun training. ;-D
Spectre_907 wrote...
you do have the option of explaining your reason for joining Cerberus afterward:
Shepard: "Our colonies are disappearing. The Alliance turned its back on them. Cerberus is the only group willing to do something about it."
Kaidan: "You don't really believe that, we both know what Cerberus is like, what they're capable of. I wanted to believe the rumors that you were alive but I never expected anything like this. You turned your back on everything we stood for!"
Shepard: "Kaidan you know me, you know I'd only do this for the right reason. You saw it yourself, the Collectors
are targeting human colonies and they're working with the Reapers."
It is alot to take in for Kaidan, yes. And it's understandable he would be angry, I won't disagree there but I think Shepard handled the justification well. He was accused of being the enemy by Kaidan after all.
Okay, fair play for the direct quotes. It's always nice to base our discussion on what the game actually offers rather than hearsay. Let's break it all down.
Shepard states that Cerberus is the only one willing to help, when at the same time Kaidan, an Alliance commander, was sent to a human colony rumoured to be the Collectors' next target to try to help them. This colony is outside Alliance space but they still did something. Kaidan knows this for a fact (from his point of view, anyway; from some other points of view, the Illusive Man set up the whole thing). When it comes to Cerberus, however, Kaidan's experience is that they'd experimented on humans and caused numerous deaths in the Alliance military. He states that Shep doesn't "really believe that [only Cerberus wants to help]" because he believes so strongly that Shepard should know better, given the actual situation. The Shepard he knew wouldn't make these claims; he has to give her more credit than this.
When Kaidan says that he wanted to believe the rumours that she was alive, it shows that he cared for her and missed her - but he finds it incredible that a revived/saved Shepard would work with Cerberus. It's like she's a different person. He feels a strong sense of alienation and can't reconcile his previous experience of Shepard (who he trusted completely) with cooperation with Cerberus.
Shepard's response that she would only do this for the right reasons is good in the sense that she doesn't avoid the accusation but takes responsibility for her actions. By refocusing discussion on the Reapers and Collectors rather than Cerberus, she shows concern for the bigger picture. This is all to her credit and, in my opinion, shows part of the Shepard that Kaidan knew before.
Kaidan responds, however, with this: "I don't trust them. They could be using the threat of a Reaper to manipulate you. What if Cerberus are behind it? What if
they're working with the Collectors?" Now, on the one hand, Kaidan sounds a bit like the Council at this point (with the "you're being manipulated" line, which hardly shows much faith in Shepard's mental faculties). However, on the other hand, nothing he's experienced of Cerberus leads him to believe that they wouldn't to try to use the situation with the Reapers and the Collectors to bring humanity out on top at the end of the conflict, at the expense of other races. Also, although he doesn't know this, the whole attack on Horizon was indeed scripted by Cerberus - so at least part of his mistrust is clearly justified (even if one agrees with the Illusive Man that it was better to know where the Collectors would hit than not). Furthermore, with the famous and heroic Commander Shepard on the Cerberus payroll, their recruitment is, no doubt, through the roof. This is helping the cause of human supremacy, which, from the point of view of the paragon Kaidan,* ultimately hurts the galaxy's chances of survival. He believes all the races of the galaxy are stronger and more likely to survive when they're united.
* Note: I think it's daft that Kaidan's attitude towards this doesn't change even if you made him into a renegade in ME1. That's just inconsistent writing on Bioware's part. Ash's attitude is the same whether you leave her as she is or paragon her as well. Gah.Anyway, there's a lot to support your reading of this scene, and it's certain that not all of Shepard's dialogue on Horizon is weak. But there's a fair bit of material to support my interpretation that much of Kaidan's responses do make sense and don't undermine Shepard so much as Cerberus, and some of Shep's words that you don't quote surely break galactic records for lameness. ;-)
Modifié par Estelindis, 08 juin 2011 - 11:39 .
Retour en haut
And when it comes to biotics, then I prefere Liara over Kaidan. When it comes to tech then my tech experts would be Tali and Legion. Not Kaidan 
"Okay then Kaidan." I'm replaying ME1 and...he's really...boring. He doesn't want to speak for long, he gives good insight but...there's really nothing between him and Shepard. They're just..acquaintances. Making his whole betrayal tangent ridculous. 
