479 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

Zanallen wrote...

Well wrote...

Really?Elves don't?What part of Norse myths didn't you understand?

The part where you feel that the DA2 elf designs should follow their designs in Norse mythology. Hence the second part of my comment about Santa and his elven slaves.

Wow.That is pretty good.You read all that in one sentence.

"I know.What I have read on Norse myth they do look like Humans."

Is it because I think elfs in other games look better?I didn't know I wasn't allowed too?Twist peoples words much ?

[oldmansavage]

He is probably getting his replies mixed up, I would assume.  If not I dunno.

Modifié par oldmansavage, 09 juin 2011 - 04:28 .

[Zanallen]

Satyricon331 wrote...

I really can't see the point you're trying to make here.  I've read it several times and I can't see your point.  People call the elves ugly, you call the DAO skills useless; people want a better version of DAO elves, you want a better version of DAO skills; people want better-looking elves, you want more worthwhile skills.  Yet you're objecting to someone who simply wondered whether changes in DA2 were an overreaction, apparently drawing some distinction between uselessness and brokenness.  

Suggesting BW makes improvements is no different than suggesting they allocate resources to that issue.  They aren't made of infinite time or money, so it has to come from somewhere.  I don't have a huge vested interest in defending tmp7704, though, so I'm not sure why I'm replying.  I just dislike faux moralizing, I guess.

It is 9am and I haven't slept yet, so perhaps I am not getting my point across effectively. What I am saying is that I don't feel right saying that Bioware was wrong in their choice and that they should have done something else. It was Bioware's choice and they made it. I do feel fine with making suggestions for a future update and if Bioware takes those suggestions into account, then great. If not, that's fine too. It is their game and they can do what they want with it. I shall purchase it if I think I will enjoy it or won't if I don't. My personal feelings on the matter are hard to explain, but I do feel that there is a distinct difference in giving suggestions and telling someone that they are flat out wrong on a subjective matter. Liking or not liking the elf redesing being subjective while something like comparing the elves to Na'vi being objective as their is actual evidence that can be brought into the discussion with the latter while the former is just feelings and opinions.

Personally, I don't care what the elves look like. They can be Santa style for all I care. I am just explaining Bioware's decision and their reasoning. That being attempting to move away from the generic fantasy style present in DA:O. I would also appreciate if people are to make comparisons that they use DA2 elves that had their designs actually worked on and now random crappy NPCs with little to no resources spent on them.

[Zanallen]

Well wrote...

Wow.That is pretty good.You read all that in one sentence.

"I know.What I have read on Norse myth they do look like Humans."

Is it because I think elfs in other games look better?I didn't know I wasn't allowed too?Twist peoples words much ?

oldmansavage wrote...

"Maybe someone
can help me out.  Why did they change elves in the first place?  Some
say because they look too much like humans.  Well of course, they're
elves.  So why even add elves if you don't like the way they look in the
first place?  Its like adding a dragon in the game and saying you don't
like how dragons have scales and wings and breathe fire. Call them melves and put your stamp of originality on it."

Your response was: "I know.What I have read on Norse myth they do look like Humans."

One can infer from that response that you feel that humans with pointy ears is the proper design for elves. A design consistant with that of Norse mythology. My response was then to say that elves have been used in several different forms over the ages and their lore has been mixed and merged countless times. So, elves can really look like anything and everything. There is no real constant aside from pointy ears. The mainstream design; however, is one that closely resembled "perfect humans" with pointy ears. That is a design that Bioware wasn't to move away from.

If I inferred incorrectly, then I appologize. That just seemed to be the point that you were getting at.

[Satyricon331]

Zanallen wrote...
It is 9am and I haven't slept yet, so perhaps I am not getting my point across effectively. What I am saying is that I don't feel right saying that Bioware was wrong in their choice and that they should have done something else. It was Bioware's choice and they made it. I do feel fine with making suggestions for a future update and if Bioware takes those suggestions into account, then great. If not, that's fine too. It is their game and they can do what they want with it. I shall purchase it if I think I will enjoy it or won't if I don't. My personal feelings on the matter are hard to explain, but I do feel that there is a distinct difference in giving suggestions and telling someone that they are flat out wrong on a subjective matter. Liking or not liking the elf redesing being subjective while something like comparing the elves to Na'vi being objective as their is actual evidence that can be brought into the discussion with the latter while the former is just feelings and opinions.

Personally, I don't care what the elves look like. They can be Santa style for all I care. I am just explaining Bioware's decision and their reasoning. That being attempting to move away from the generic fantasy style present in DA:O. I would also appreciate if people are to make comparisons that they use DA2 elves that had their designs actually worked on and now random crappy NPCs with little to no resources spent on them.

Well, I don't think this post is too objectionable.  If I felt as strongly about the issue as you do, I would take enormous care in identifying subjective and objective features, however.  Like for the Na'vi comparisons, there are objective similarities, and objective differences.  How someone amalgamates those together to form an overall comparison is more subjective, since it involves weighing different features.  One of the the first things I thought upon seeing the DA2 elves was the Na'vi, and apparently many other people independently thought the same thing.  Thus there are striking similarities in my opinion, and if you or someone else doesn't see it, then our opinions legitimately differ even if we can agree on the objective point-by-point comparisons.

[Well]

My point was exactly as posted.In Norse myths they do look human.It was about Elf's looking human.That is why I brought up about the Norse.As a point of reference.As far as BW getting it right or wrong.Well people are allowed their opinion.As long as they are civil about it.Forums provide people a chance to provide feedback good,bad, or indifferent.As long as folks don't go over the line.

[tmp7704]

Zanallen wrote...

What I am saying is that I don't feel right saying that Bioware was wrong in their choice and that they should have done something else.

It's good no one actually said such a thing, then.

"i wonder if they aren't wasting time on trying to fix what simply isn't broken. Maybe that time could've been better spent say, bringing the dwarf girls back into the game?"

in my book is merely a personal speculation.

(and i think it's perfectly fine to speculate -- consider the alternatives is part of the whole decision making after all. Plus, if you never question your choices, how are you going to learn from your mistakes?)

Modifié par tmp7704, 09 juin 2011 - 05:07 .

[Bejos_]

For what it's worth, I don't see the Na'vi (N'avi? Nav'i?) in DA2 elves.

[TaHol]

Elfs look like bats in DA2. End of line.

[Arthur Cousland]

Whatever they do with elves in the future, just don't make them look like aliens or something that would make children cry (and many adults).

I liked being the outcast/second class citizen turned "hero of Ferelden", but it would be hard to stick with an elf for long with the DA2 elf designs unless my pc could look something similar to Orsino and co.

[Sanguinerin]

I liked the appearance of the elves when it came to central characters. Fenris and Merrill both looked quite nice. The elves who weren't central to the plot looked much worse, however, than the elves who were more important. I can't stand Orana's horribly sunken cheeks, and some of the others just look rather alien.

[Monica83]

Before dragon age 2 i thinked oblivion had the worst elves never seen (im talking of the base one).

Now i think DA2 wins an award for the most ugly elves ever created in a videogame.. Just look what zevhran become after this new ehhhm art direction... Elves need to be improved...

I didin't liked fenrys seems to much a character created for a manga and merryl mhhh.. almost cute face... her body is a nightmare..

[TEWR]

um.... not to be rude or anything but..... what?

[FieryDove]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

um.... not to be rude or anything but..... what?

Elves need to be improved...

Is what the post sums up.

I noticed at least on the females the body shape is sort of S shaped, like a pretzel. Not healthy and looks...nvm.
The scene with Marithari in the alienage brings it to light the most. The SS of Merrill in romance in this thread also brings this out, they are shaped that way.

Feed them Bioware!
Heh I know a toggle...DAO type elves, DA2 type elves. All fixed, carry on.

[Sutekh]

Monica83 wrote...

Before dragon age 2 i thinked oblivion had the worst elves never seen (im talking of the base one).

What's wrong with Oblivion elves? Keeping in mind the engine is from 2006, they looked fine to me. Especially considering you have three flavors (Funmer Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer), quite different from one another. Morrowind elves were not that good looking, but again, more due to engine limitations than anything (although, admittedly, the modded ones looked much better than the vanilla ones). Same with Daggerfall. The concept was/is good, IMHO.

I didin't liked fenrys seems to much a character created for a manga and merryl mhhh.. almost cute face... her body is a nightmare..

Fenris, I may see your point. It was my first impression when we meet him, but I quickly got over it because of his *clears throat* "endearing" personality (and this voice... how can anyone resist this voice), but almost cute Merrill? Almost?

Frankly, if Merrill had looked that good in DAO, my Warden (the shallow Dalish) would have fought much much harder to remain with his clan. Or abducted her. Or sneakily have her tainted-by-darkspawn so she'd have been forced to Join too. Or something. All for aesthetic reasons (and science).

Ah well, I suppose we have to agree to disagree on that one. 

(Agreed on the body, though)

[Monica83]

Mhhh when i tell oblivion elves i refer to one in particular... the announg fan... is the most ugly elf i ever seen... But the elves of dragon age 2 are very horrific..

For merryl.. meh she is fun but i didint liked her too much her eyes are way tooo big she seems a mantid... And the shape of theyr body ((all elves)) seems kind like anorexic and sick.. this is what i mean.. i also dislike this flat nose.. As i sayd reminds me too much the na'vi of pandora..And mixed with those horrific body they are really scary...the first time i seen merryl hug at my hawke.. i had almost the nausea

[Sutekh]

Monica83 wrote...

Mhhh when i tell oblivion elves i refer to one in particular... the announg fan... is the most ugly elf i ever seen... But the elves of dragon age 2 are very horrific..

The Adoring Fan wasn't only ugly, he was also incredibly annoying, which was his purpose, and allowed us players to kill him in numerous ways without remorse. Very satisfying, that. But I'm a little surprised you based your entire opinion of Oblivion elves on this very atypical one :/

For merryl.. meh she is fun but i didint liked her too much her eyes are way tooo big she seems a mantid...

Her eyes are very fine to me. Lovely shape, lovely color. Matter of taste. The mantis thing is more her posture (i.e. her body) than her face (she doesn't have mandibles or anything)

And the shape of theyr body ((all elves)) seems kind like anorexic and sick.. this is what i mean.. i also dislike this flat nose.. As i sayd reminds me too much the na'vi of pandora..And mixed with those horrific body they are really scary...the first time i seen merryl hug at my hawke.. i had almost the nausea

I don't like elves body either, but the "anorexic" part doesn't bother me. Elves are "supposed" to be slim, lithe etc... (as described in codex, if memory serves). It's more a matter of proportions. Fenris legs, for instance, are incredibly err... tiny, compared to the rest of his body.

Modifié par Sutekh, 10 juin 2011 - 12:13 .

[Abispa]

I don't think all elven females should be "hot," so I didn't mind Orana since she looked like she was designed to look unattractive. "Ugly" elves like Huon, however, looked like they were unfinished and poorly constructed Playstation One characters.

[TEWR]

I think I'm the only person who found Orana to be not bad looking. People use her as an example of how the new design is "awful", but what they fail to take into account is that she's a slave. She's going to look malnourished. She probably would've been beautiful if she wasn't a slave.


She would've been much better looking though if she didn't have purple lipstick. Made her look like Tarohne

[FieryDove]

Abispa wrote...

I don't think all elven females should be "hot," so I didn't mind Orana since she looked like she was designed to look unattractive. "Ugly" elves like Huon, however, looked like they were unfinished and poorly constructed Playstation One characters.

Huon...he did wear booties tho.
That reminds me...Huon's wife...Huge sloped forehead and just not very elfy...

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Nyssa

[TEWR]

Oh God I hate seeing her. Nyssa's in her late 20's at least and she's going bald. What was Bioware thinking?

[Ottemis]

I quite like the new design, altho I think the armor on the elves could have used some more work.
The necks do look long. While having seen the 'naked' models, I don't think it's really a proportional issue, more the armor making them look that way.
Don't have that issue on the males.

I've actually attempted to change my own Origin elves to more resemble the new design, I can understand it's not everyone's thing but well, Floats my boat.
Altho I did just notice the pupils would quite possibly need to be larger, but meh.

Modifié par Ottemis, 10 juin 2011 - 02:24 .

[Romantiq]

They didn't look like humans to me in DAO. If their way of making something "artistic" is to make a whole race look sick n ugly then I don't know what to say.

All I know is that they didn't bother much with elves or dwarves because it was designed that we can only play as a human.

Modifié par Romantiq, 10 juin 2011 - 04:11 .

[Fishy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Ainmarh wrote...

Um, comparing the proportion of... well, anything, neither part is actually similar. For one, the Na'vi have a nose taking 50 percent of their ugly face.

Apart from that, you're comparing one elf of how many?

^This.

The Na'vi looks like a blue werecat (the wide nose and high ears), the elf looks like... an elf. 

Otherwise, I don't know. Some DA2 elves are honestly more eye-candy than in DAO: Merrill, Marethari, Ilen, Pol, Fenarel (mmm Fenarel...). So, yeah, the Dalish in general.

There were ugly elves then, and some nice ones. There are ugly elves now too, and some nice ones. But truth is when a certain Antivan talks about "his high cheekbones" and his charms, I tend to look at my screen in horrified disbelief (every. single. time.).

What I don't like at all, though, is the weird mantis posture (but there were posture problems in DAO too, when wearing leather armor). And, globally, I prefer the human/elven faces in DAO, because they were sharper. So, maybe it's what the elves suffer from. Not the new design, but the new engine?

@OP: Honestly those "elves" would look incredibly out of place, both features and err.. armors (and that's the nicest thing I can say about them), so, no.

That's true. Origins had its fair share of ugly elves. Like this guy:




anyone who thought Cammen was a good looking elf must have been on something.


or Deygan. He wasn't too pleasant. His incredibly black Dalish tattoos probably didn't help either:





As for posture, all of the male elves seem to walk as if they have a gorilla on their back. That needs to be rectified

Cammen was  unattractive because of his lack of confidence  , age and his overall stupidity.He's like the average nerd that can't talk to a  beautiful woman without choking and fainting.

Also

I`m a faily decent looking man but i can pretty much find picture where i look  horrible.Be it the angle or because i was tired to death or had a bad haircut or wearing very ugly thing.That pic of Cammen is just horrible. Although during the whole time you see him .. he look like a sad puppy.Not really attractive.

and yes i`m a straight guy.


The elf in DA2(The generic elves) .. Were awful because they awfully lacked any sort of attention and detail ..
They were really just 'Put them in here to fill the space'

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think I'm the only person who found Orana to be not bad looking. People use her as an example of how the new design is "awful", but what they fail to take into account is that she's a slave. She's going to look malnourished. She probably would've been beautiful if she wasn't a slave.


She would've been much better looking though if she didn't have purple lipstick. Made her look like Tarohne

Sorry Eth, but she was ass ugly, and it wasn't malnutrition. She isn't the only one...how about the guy in the Darktown that sells poisons with his beady eyes and mule ears. He looks like he was a reject from playing the Summer theater's verion of  "A Midsummer's Night Dream." Or the ugly elf dad of the girl who was abducted, and she wasn't that pretty either, but he was so ugly. Or the elf prostitute guy, with those f'd up eye of a really weird blue?

Humans are supposed to like diddling elves and messing with the because they are supposed to be beautiful and handsome. Most of them just made me want to gag.

And for f's sake, please, please, please BioWare, drop the beady eyes, mule ears (from WoW, which I always hated), and the guppy face. Seriously, they don't need to look like humans. But if designers and artists can't make them different and beautiful, go back to beautiful humans with pointed ears so I don't either want to kill them with fire, or hand them a bag to put over their heads while I have to talk to them. Because right now, that is the only thing I can think of when I look at them.:happy: