61 réponses à ce sujet

[kaiki01]

DOGGEH84 wrote...

kaiki01 wrote...

DOGGEH84 wrote...

Fair enough people might not agree with the methods of a renegade. But as long as whats needed to be done, gets done. Where is the harm.

"Renegades" do what they believe is right.

The harm is from all the needless deaths they cause D:
Just because they believe it's right, doesn't make it any less of a crime.

That being said.  What was more right "Saving the council" or "Saving the population of the Citadel"?

Sacrifice many for the few.  Or Sacrifice the few for the many?

Kill all the colonists on Feros, or not to kill them. Yeah, I can definitly see where Renegades would believe wiping them out is the right thing to do.

[Kadzin]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Hence the cunning Miranda disguise!

Clever, but not clever enough! If only she went for a Quarian disguise.

Now I just need a renegade interrupt when she pulls me on the Normandy....

Renegade interrupt pops up. *Shepard pulls out M-920 Cain*

And it's out of ammo.

[Neutral Interrupt]
Shepard: I should go.

[bleetman]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

So you're all criticizing Kaidan/Ashley for being upset with Shepard for being with Cerberus, when just seeing him/her alive flips their world upside down, and adding to that the stress of having lost half a colony of people on their watch not even five minutes prior? Really? How exactly would you react to having all that thrown at you all at once?

By believing a word Shepard was saying.

[Cutlass Jack]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

So you're all criticizing Kaidan/Ashley for being upset with Shepard for being with Cerberus, when just seeing him/her alive flips their world upside down, and adding to that the stress of having lost half a colony of people on their watch not even five minutes prior? Really? How exactly would you react to having all that thrown at you all at once?

Allow me to redirect you to your meeting with Garrus. Who despite having just lost all his team to betrayal is still happy to see you. Even when you show up with two Cerberus operatives in tow. Or Tali who trusts you know what you are doing.

As opposed to Ashley being outraged at my being with Cerberus even though I just rescued the colony with my two nonhuman non-cerberus companions, one of whom is Garrus.

I'm not mad at her for not joining my team, just for not giving me the benefit of the doubt when all my alien friends (who have much greater reason to be leery of Cerberus) do not doubt me for a second.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 08 juin 2011 - 01:22 .

[Beerfish]

Valid point by the original poster. In ME2 it appeared that any ME1 romance was essentially over and not by your own choice by the way he ME1 love interest handled the fact that you were working with Cerberus. There really was no hook or indication that there would be a payoff to sticking with the ME1 love interest at that time. I'd hazard to guess by far the majority of people played a different love interest in ME2. Valid complaint.

[Antivenger]

bleetman wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

So you're all criticizing Kaidan/Ashley for being upset with Shepard for being with Cerberus, when just seeing him/her alive flips their world upside down, and adding to that the stress of having lost half a colony of people on their watch not even five minutes prior? Really? How exactly would you react to having all that thrown at you all at once?

By believing a word Shepard was saying.

 Kinda redundant by the fact that you have metagame knowledge. >:|
You know Shepard's right. The VS can't even be sure if that Shepard is real, or if he's being controlled by Cerberus.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

So
you're all criticizing Kaidan/Ashley for being upset with Shepard for
being with Cerberus, when just seeing him/her alive flips their world
upside down, and adding to that the stress of having lost half a colony
of people on their watch not even five minutes prior? Really? How
exactly would you react to having all that thrown at you all at
once?

Allow me to redirect you to your meeting with
Garrus. Who despite having just lost all his team to betrayal is still
happy to see you. Even when you show up with two Cerberus operatives in
tow. Or Tali who trusts you know what you are doing.

As opposed to Ashley being outraged at my being with Cerberus even though I just rescued the colony with my two nonhuman non-cerberus companions, one of whom is Garrus.

I'm
not mad at her for not joining my team, just for not giving me the
benefit of the doubt when all my alien friends (who have much greater
reason to be leery of Cerberus) do not doubt me for a second.

Garrus had his soul shattered. It was practically suicide staying on Omega. He did.

Tali can be explained two ways:

1)  She actually had time to process the information as she refused to join you on Freedom's progress. Even the VS apologise how they said what they did (if LI) after the mission when they actually had time to think about it, and not after watching hundreds of people and friends be abducted by horrible monsters.

2) One could say she doesn't particularly care about humans and their dillemas. Cerberus? Whatever, humans. Abducted colonies? Whatever, human problem.

Modifié par Antivenger, 08 juin 2011 - 01:37 .

[bleetman]

Antivenger wrote...

Kinda redundant by the fact that you have metagame knowledge. >:|
You know Shepard's right. The VS can't even be sure if that Shepard is real, or if he's being controlled by Cerberus.

There's this thing. I believe it's called 'trust'. I don't expect the Virmire Survivor to not be a little skeptical, but they don't even hear Shepard out. "You're alive!" is quickly replaced by "Cerberus traitor! I'm leaving!". Too quicky.

Modifié par bleetman, 08 juin 2011 - 02:33 .

[Antivenger]

bleetman wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

Kinda redundant by the fact that you have metagame knowledge. >:|
You know Shepard's right. The VS can't even be sure if that Shepard is real, or if he's being controlled by Cerberus.

There's this thing. I believe it's called 'trust'. I don't expect the Virmire Survivor to not be a little skeptical, but they don't even hear Shepard out. "You're alive!" is quickly replaced by "Cerberus traitor! I'm leaving!". Too quicky.

They did hear Shepard out, but what did he have to say?

"Cerberus isn't the enemy!"

Also note the bolded, underlined, italicised part.

I'm replying too fast, aren't I? Damn, I'm obsessed

[Eshaye]

OP, what actually concerns me is that the dire ramifications actually end up being some pretty cool tension and dialogue between you, old LI and ME2 LI.. Making sure those of us who stayed 'loyal' don't get as much out of the story. The equivalent of not romancing a character and getting 40% less dialogue because of it.

The other problem would be that like you said ME1 LI gets so pissed with you they refuse any apology.. I want to doubt that neither these scenarios are true.

[Deviana]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

So you're all criticizing Kaidan/Ashley for being upset with Shepard for being with Cerberus, when just seeing him/her alive flips their world upside down, and adding to that the stress of having lost half a colony of people on their watch not even five minutes prior? Really? How exactly would you react to having all that thrown at you all at once?

I understand that VS was under a lot of stress at that moment, however there were various ways in which he/she could've reacted, without accusing their former commander and/or lover. For example: "Shepard, I'm glad that you're alive, but it's all too much to take into right now. I need some time. Please let me get in touch with you once I sorted everything out" or " Commander, I won't pretend that I approve of working with Cerberus, but I trust you. I will contact you once I report back to the Alliance."   Any variation of those would've made my Shepard think twice before turning away from Kaidan, but as of now, he'll be lucky if he even sets foot back on Normandy.

[Nerevar-as]

What makes it even worse is that Joker and the doctor joined Cerberus, probably commiting treason, out of loyalty for Shepard. VS won´t even listen to him/her.

On the other side the writing of the meeting is so bad (and Liara pre-LoSB is little better) that I decided not to cheat because of it.

[Raiil]

You know what? I'm sorry for the VS, who just watched a bunch of colonists get beam me up, Scotty by our prothean overlords, and I don't blame them for being snippy. Stress, et all.


They still walked away. They still turned their back. And at least from my canon Shep's point of view, they abandoned them- in her case, her first serious boyfriend/love basically called her a traitor, a moron, and easily manipulated. She ended up boning the drell- who never called her commander and stayed on with her for free, despite only having months to live simply because the disappearance of innocents was cause enough for concern- yet the ones who were in the know about the Reapers beforehand were too 'amg ALLIANCE 4EVA!!!*!*~*~' and took off.

Pft at them, I say. And if Kaidan tries to guilt me or yell at me, I demand a 'jettison over Mars' option.

[Jebel Krong]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

So you're all criticizing Kaidan/Ashley for being upset with Shepard for being with Cerberus, when just seeing him/her alive flips their world upside down, and adding to that the stress of having lost half a colony of people on their watch not even five minutes prior? Really? How exactly would you react to having all that thrown at you all at once?

you? or an alliance soldier who went through me1's events subsequently? they also gave you no chance to explain or justify yourself properly, before condemning you to hell. then you get a sobby e-mail an indeterminate time later. yeah... ash is going nowhere near the normandy again. and there shoulda been a neck-snap interrupt on horizon to deal with that, maybe we'll get one in me3 instead. 

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 08 juin 2011 - 03:17 .

[ReallyRue]

My renegade Sheps were forced to work with Cerberus. I don't understand the point of this thread, except as the makings of another 'punish renegades, not paragons!' thing.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

It's all a bunch of BS, if you ask me. With all the alien chicks throwing themselves at Shepard, you pretty much had to try in order to NOT cheat on your LI.

Furthermore, if you really do care for your ME2 lover, why should that adversely affect your ME3 playthrough?

[Destroy Raiden_]

I hope the dire consequences doesn't mean ME LI kills your ME2 LI. I mean I left Liara because of her cold treatment on Illium it really hurt she was like that all I wanted was to see her sense she was my shep's LI and every world I keept thinking I'd find her, just when I started to give up she shows up helping me on Illium and I'm like finally I'm back with my love and she acts like that is cold all but shoved shep away and I"m left shocked being like, " What happened?"

Horizon wasn't much better when Ash called me a traitor and was upset about me disappearing, I wanted to tell her how sorry I was for dying! I was beaten up over these two events. Every past ME person I met in ME2 was changed and to me made me feel like sheps world had been turned upsidedown and it was both the Collectors and Cerberus's fault people aren't meant to come back from the dead. Then Liara says she handed me over was one more blow.

I want a 5 wheel option that comes up when faced with the fight of ME & ME2 LI not just all of them leading to the I cheated on you sorry line. I would like to convey to MELI that they hurt and betrayed me too so I didn't cheat I left them for ME2LI. In Kaiden's case I'd like an option to say I was simply using him because he was there and Garrus wasn't available at the time which is totally true!.

If somehow Liara moves from SB fine to suddenly not being fine in ME3 I would like to tell her that I'm sorry but I didnt cheat on her she moved on and hurt my mshep that day on Illium and basically through her action showed it was over between us and I eventually found Tali who I'm staying with.

For the fshep who romanced Liara it was more of a bewitching thing she was too curious about eternity to turn the experience down but has found meaningful love with Garrus.

I'm sure both prior and former LIs will be hurt, upset, and confused like shep should be. If current LI is so hurt they can't talk to shep let them over the game's course work it out to being good again don't just have LI up and leave to spite the player if they really want to make the current LI relationship work. If they want to leave their current LI and go for the former let them too work with the former LI over the game course to work it out or the player can say, " that's it I'm done!" and walk away from both with no option to smooth it romantically over with them now they could however work professionally with them over the game and get the kinks worked out on that end but no more love between them like it once was.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 08 juin 2011 - 03:30 .

[Antivenger]

ReallyRue wrote...

My renegade Sheps were forced to work with Cerberus. I don't understand the point of this thread, except as the makings of another 'punish renegades, not paragons!' thing.

To talk about how to punish the VS, I guess. Apparently those views are inherent, no argument can change that

[bigSarg]

LOL, well like most threads the majority of the posts are way off topic, this is not a pissing match between paragon and renegade mindsets, I play both equal, and still got the same response as everyone else, so it has nothing to do with paragon or renegade. And honestly anyone that has ever really had a relationship would see that the scene on Horizonb between Shep and Kaiden/ashley was incredibly realistic. I mean seriously shep shows up after 2 years and has been recorded as being dead and has a 5 min (or less) conversation with his/her LI from ME1 and everyone seems to think that the LI should fall back into Sheps arms like nothing happened, not to mention that now Shep is working with/for the very group that he/she once fought against? In what world would this ever happen? Not only that but if you remain faithful you eventually get an apology from your ME1 LI , which again seems very realistic to me, especially since they have had time to think about it and asses their feelings for you and have most likely talked to Anderson or done some checking on your activites. So can everyone get off the paragon/renegade soap box and just play the friggin game.

As far as the "Dire Ramifications" well if you cheated on someone that you profess to love I guess you can expect there to be ramifications to that decision, although Bioware may have mercy on your soul and allow you to patch things up with your ME1/ME2 LI.  The ME series has always been about consequences of your decisions, this is going to be one of those consequences, cheat on someone you profess to love then pay the consequences, sounds pretty realistic to me.

Modifié par bigSarg, 08 juin 2011 - 03:40 .

[Slayer299]

Tripedius wrote...

My guess? At some point you have to save your LI from a certain death. If you have 2 LI's you have to choose which one to save, the other one dies. Just look at previous Bioware games, in a lot of them someone close to you will get kidnapped and you have to save them (DA2, BG2).

Where did that happen in DA2?? I don't remember *anyone* getting grabbed and you having to save them. Oh, and you forgot KotOR to add to that list.

[Ragnarok521]

I can see your point OP. LI or no, the VS wouldn't even give Shepard a chance to really explain him/herself, so to have Shepard be the "bad guy" if he/she decides to move on would be an unfair move in my opinion.

On a funnier note, anybody else see the irony in that out of all the ME1 squadmates only the human one is completely PO'd you're working with/for Cerberus?

[Raiil]

Slayer299 wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

My guess? At some point you have to save your LI from a certain death. If you have 2 LI's you have to choose which one to save, the other one dies. Just look at previous Bioware games, in a lot of them someone close to you will get kidnapped and you have to save them (DA2, BG2).

Where did that happen in DA2?? I don't remember *anyone* getting grabbed and you having to save them. Oh, and you forgot KotOR to add to that list.

You may potentially have to save your LI in DA2. The templar/mage group kidnaps someone to lure you out, but the priority list is sibling>LI>Aveline, and a lot of people still have a living sibling in Act 3 so they never get the rescue the LI story.

[Raiil]

Ragnarok521 wrote...

I can see your point OP. LI or no, the VS wouldn't even give Shepard a chance to really explain him/herself, so to have Shepard be the "bad guy" if he/she decides to move on would be an unfair move in my opinion.

Hopefully, we get dialogue options that give us some room to breathe- everything from 'I'm sorry I cheated' to 'you're a complete a--hole and this is what you deserve', since people play their Sheps differently. I said before that my canon Shep was highly pissed at Kaidan and she's most likely not going to let it go- and I don't want her to be forced to- but my paragon of paragon Sheps will probably want to minimise Kaidan's hurt while still holding on to Thane.


I also think people who romanced someone in ME1 and no one in ME2 should have the option not to continue the romance in ME3. And more importantly, someone who romanced a character in ME2 and then lost them to the suicide run should be allowed to mourn them, including by pushing away a former flame.