13 réponses à ce sujet

[Ricinator]

-Can't we get a game with such rich combat experiences like bioware is giving us now at E3 (No matter your stance on these forums atm, It is pretty amazing material) and Really well done RPG systems such as customization and Dialogue?

-I was thinking you could still get a lot of side quests into the game but have them playable after the fact. Yes there can be some sprinkled in between, But think about what types of side quests you could get after the fact. Helping rebuild the galaxy, infavor of or against different races (if they servived at all). Every time you played the game and lost a different civilization or didn't lose any, you could have many different variations of different side quests open up.

-Ok some people dislike customization and some are for it. why cant we get several different suits and weapons just like in ME2 and be able to customize our squad with them? It doesn't have to be huge amounts of different armors and weapons, Bioware can make it simple enough for both extremes to be somewhat happy even if thats not exatly what either wanted.

-Most importantly Richer DIALOGUE. ME2 was lacking even if you don't see it that way, in contrast with ME1 it definatly was. So why not make it just as Rich as ME1 and the people who don't want to explore the issues don't have to just like in ME1. they can make there quick decisions and get back to combat while the RPG fans can dig through alot of the story instead of just having the 2 answer dialogue we have been seeing alot of recently.





Just a thought and didn't find a previous thread like this so wanted to build one. This doesn't have to be the way it is, so get in here and make a case for what you want more or less of.

[Ricinator]

Montezuma IV wrote...

But.....How does this make you money

It makes your fans happy and a bigger demographic might take notice if it is good enough.

[SennenScale]

THERE CAN BE NO COMPRO-okay, I can't go through with that joke. It's not funny.

Yes, I think there can be a smooth blend of RPG elements and action. For customization, I could see Bioware giving each class a default build that is slightly less effective and less nuanced than customizing your Shepard and squad.

Dialogue can be X'd out of and so can most cutscenes, but leave some great dialogue for those of us who really care about it. And THIS time, don't make an unskippable intro, Bioware.

As to the question, how does this make money, it keeps the current Bioware fans happy (not just Mass Effect fans) and draws other RPG fans to Bioware's other franchises, which are mostly RPGs.

[MrFob]

First of, I am all for the OPs suggestions.
However, a compromise can be difficult to achieve with some of these points, especially if you say "implement it and let the player choose if he wants to uses it or not".
Take the dialogue for example. Increasing dialogue volume is a huge undertaking that binds a lot of resources for the developer in terms of time, money and manpower. You need people to write the dialogue and to VO it, you need disc space for all of it, etc., etc. It is not a feature you just add on, even if only a fraction of the players are going to use and enjoy it. As I said, I would but that is me. It depends on what BW is going for. If they want to have more action oriented gameplay with lot's of cool features in that and a decent amount of graphically nice environments and some scripted sequences that everyone is going to see, I can see why they have to cut back on the optional dialogue. Basically that translates to every feature of the game.

Oh, just a side note on the dialogue, I don't think ME2 was that inferiour to ME1 in that area. sure, often you had less options but if you go through all the options ME1 gave you (especially on side missions), you'll find that Shep often says the exact same thing, no matter what. Personally, I'd like more freedom in dialogue but I don't think ME2 constrained us more than ME1 did. One exception might be that you could avoid fights through dialogue in ME1 which I'd like to see return in ME3.

[WizenSlinky0]

If you want the game delayed for an extra two years, sure, they can make the perfect blend of shooter and RPG elements. And then someone will still complain.

[Ricinator]

I'm obviously an ME1 fan and want to stick with the traditional controls and ways of doing things in the universe, but yes combat had to change, customization was a bit clunky if you didn't know what you were doing, and something had to change. Unfortunately I feel it is being warped from the game they originally set out to make into a Sell a lot of games type of franchise were they want to chop everything that made the first stand out.

In ME2 you could run around the citadel sure, But did it really feel as big as it did in ME1? no characters moved, it didn't feel as alive as ME1. I really started seeing the differences in how dead the city's in ME2 over ME1 were. when i went back to Noveria. The people talked and guards actually walked around and it actually felt alive even lacking some people it felt alive.

But was really streamlining the game this much worth losing so much character in the game itself? these are reason i made this thread.

just another example

[Ricinator]

bump from late last night

[sp0ck 06]

I thought the dialogue in ME2 was, for the most part, far superior to that of ME1. Where ME2 fell flat was in length of story missions (2 hours in a 30-40 hour game), pacing, and team interactions. In ME3 I would like to see more dynamic squadmates who have stronger reactions to your choices and more complex relationships with each other.

Squad members felt unique and fleshed out in ME2, but they were very static.  They all stood in the same spot the whole game, they were either loyal or not, there was generally only one way to earn loyalty, and your relationship to them never changed (except for your LI).

Modifié par sp0ck 06, 08 juin 2011 - 04:29 .

[Ricinator]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I thought the dialogue in ME2 was, for the most part, far superior to that of ME1. Where ME2 fell flat was in length of story missions (2 hours in a 30-40 hour game), pacing, and team interactions. In ME3 I would like to see more dynamic squadmates who have stronger reactions to your choices and more complex relationships with each other.

i like the idea of having the squadmates have complex relationships with each other but i dont think it will happen. Mainly because they cant really clash like ME2 considering the have to stop the reapers and nothing us. I Disagree with your statement about ME2 having superior dialogue considering you had so few choices and often lead to the same out come. while in ME1 even if you got the same outcome with multiple options they managed to somewhat twist it enough to make you think that was the only outcome you could get which i thought was really well done.

[Savber100]

Great points with some exceptions.

For example, I seriously think that ME2 has the richer dialogue.

On top of my head, I can think of:

Garrus Vakarian: Do you ever miss those talks we had on the elevators?
Tali'Zorah: No.
Garrus Vakarian: Come on. Remember how we'd always ask you about life on the flotilla? It was an opportunity to share!
Tali'Zorah: This conversation is over.
Garrus Vakarian: Tell me again about your immune system.
Tali'Zorah: I have a shotgun.
Garrus Vakarian: Mmmmaybe we'll talk later.

Gunnery Chief: [as the character enters the Citadel] This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferris slug, feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an everest class dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3% of light-speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city-buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means- Sir Issac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-**** in space. Now! Serviceman Burnside! What is Newton's first law?

Niftu Cal: I am a biotic god, I think things and they happen! Fear me, lesser creatures, for I am biotics made flesh!
Commander Shepard: I don't know what drugs you're on, but stay back and I won't shoot you.
Niftu Cal: You will regret your scandalous words! I am a great wind that will sweep all before me like a... a great wind! A great biotic wind! Yes, the asari injecting so many drugs into me was terrifying, But then I began to smell my greatness! They may laugh when I fall over, but they don't know what I know in my head... that I know that I am amazingly powerful! Fear me.

Sorry, ME has its moments but ME2 just wins out for me in terms of writing (ME has the better plot though even if it's a little cliched).

The ME2 dialogue system were the same with ME. When I first played ME 1, I was annoyed how the options seemed limited. In ME2, it's more of the same but I got used toi it. In the end, to differentiate them is silly.

As for RPG elements, I trust Bioware won't totally backhand us after promising diverging skill trees and weapon modifications.

Modifié par Savber100, 08 juin 2011 - 04:40 .

[sp0ck 06]

Ricinator wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I thought the dialogue in ME2 was, for the most part, far superior to that of ME1. Where ME2 fell flat was in length of story missions (2 hours in a 30-40 hour game), pacing, and team interactions. In ME3 I would like to see more dynamic squadmates who have stronger reactions to your choices and more complex relationships with each other.

i like the idea of having the squadmates have complex relationships with each other but i dont think it will happen. Mainly because they cant really clash like ME2 considering the have to stop the reapers and nothing us. I Disagree with your statement about ME2 having superior dialogue considering you had so few choices and often lead to the same out come. while in ME1 even if you got the same outcome with multiple options they managed to somewhat twist it enough to make you think that was the only outcome you could get which i thought was really well done.

You had more choices in ME2, dialogue wise.  Not in story missions, but certainly in recruitment and loyalty missions, which comprised the majority of the game.  Tali's trial, Mordin's loyalty, Garrus' loyalty, Thane's loyalty, and more all had multiple dialogue options which drastically altered how the mission played out.    In ME1 you had the Wrex situation...other than that most conversations ended the same way regardless.

ME2 had interrupts, cinematic camera, character movement, better voice actors, and more dramatic paragon/renegade choices.

[KainrycKarr]

Ricinator wrote...

-Can't we get a game with such rich combat experiences like bioware is giving us now at E3 (No matter your stance on these forums atm, It is pretty amazing material) and Really well done RPG systems such as (1)customization and (2)Dialogue?

-I was thinking you could still get a lot of (3)side quests into the game but have them playable after the fact. Yes there can be some sprinkled in between, But think about what types of side quests you could get after the fact. Helping rebuild the galaxy, infavor of or against different races (if they servived at all). Every time you played the game and lost a different civilization or didn't lose any, you could have many different variations of different side quests open up.

-Ok some people dislike customization and some are for it. (4)why cant we get several different suits and weapons just like in ME2 and be able to customize our squad with them? It doesn't have to be huge amounts of different armors and weapons, Bioware can make it simple enough for both extremes to be somewhat happy even if thats not exatly what either wanted.

-(5)Most importantly Richer DIALOGUE. ME2 was lacking even if you don't see it that way, in contrast with ME1 it definatly was. So why not make it just as Rich as ME1 and the people who don't want to explore the issues don't have to just like in ME1. they can make there quick decisions and get back to combat while the RPG fans can dig through alot of the story instead of just having the 2 answer dialogue we have been seeing alot of recently.





Just a thought and didn't find a previous thread like this so wanted to build one. This doesn't have to be the way it is, so get in here and make a case for what you want more or less of.

1. We have this already. You can choose Shepard's gender, appearance, armor, weapons, weapon mods, skillsets.

2. I don't understand what is missing from the dialogue. You can choose it, and ME2 had just as much dialogue as ME1.

3. They have already stated there will be a New Game+, which combines the previous incarnations from ME1 and 2.

4. We had five interchangeable suits in ME2(Inc. Kestrel). We also had several one-piece suits. We lacked a variety of weapons. We have already seen multiple new weapons in addition to BW stating and showing that our weapons from ME2 also show up. The weapon customization applied to the squad in ME2, and will in ME3. We know this. The armor system for squaddies is pretty much the same as ME2 sadly, from what we know.(VALID COMPLAINT.

5. Refer to 2. How was ME2 less rich in dialogue than ME1? Specific reference points please. Because I recall being able to dig into backgrounds, stories, etc in both games. It was lacking, even if we don't think it was lacking? Sorry, but shenanigans on this unless you can give me something specific.

The only thing that ME2 lacked dialogue-wise that I can think of is squad banter, which I would be inclined to agree with you on, if that's what you're referring to.


Bottom line, from what you listed, all that is missing that BW has not shown us, is 1. Improved Squad armor choice, and 2. Squad banter.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 08 juin 2011 - 04:50 .

[Dr.Seltsam]

Savber100 wrote...

Great points with some exceptions.

For example, I seriously think that ME2 has the richer dialogue.

On top of my head, I can think of:

Garrus Vakarian: Do you ever miss those talks we had on the elevators?
Tali'Zorah: No.
Garrus Vakarian: Come on. Remember how we'd always ask you about life on the flotilla? It was an opportunity to share!
Tali'Zorah: This conversation is over.
Garrus Vakarian: Tell me again about your immune system.
Tali'Zorah: I have a shotgun.
Garrus Vakarian: Mmmmaybe we'll talk later.

Gunnery Chief: [as the character enters the Citadel] This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferris slug, feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an everest class dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3% of light-speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city-buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means- Sir Issac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-**** in space. Now! Serviceman Burnside! What is Newton's first law?

Niftu Cal: I am a biotic god, I think things and they happen! Fear me, lesser creatures, for I am biotics made flesh!
Commander Shepard: I don't know what drugs you're on, but stay back and I won't shoot you.
Niftu Cal: You will regret your scandalous words! I am a great wind that will sweep all before me like a... a great wind! A great biotic wind! Yes, the asari injecting so many drugs into me was terrifying, But then I began to smell my greatness! They may laugh when I fall over, but they don't know what I know in my head... that I know that I am amazingly powerful! Fear me.

Sorry, ME has its moments but ME2 just wins out for me in terms of writing (ME has the better plot though even if it's a little cliched).

The ME2 dialogue system were the same with ME. When I first played ME 1, I was annoyed how the options seemed limited. In ME2, it's more of the same but I got used toi it. In the end, to differentiate them is silly.

As for RPG elements, I trust Bioware won't totally backhand us after promising diverging skill trees and weapon modifications.

The dialogues in ME2 were very well written, there's just one problem: There's not nearly enough of them.

Garrus is a good example, the romancing option with femshepard was incredibly funny but when playing male you get what? 3-4 dialogues? Pathetic, especially considering how badass garrus is.

Say what you want about the quality of the dialogues in ME1 they had an incredible amount of depht. You could literally feel the size and complexity of the ME universe just because of all the adittional information.

The ME2 dialogues on the other hand were mostly very concentrated and situation-based.

And don't get me started about the shredded rpg elements in ME2.
I can kind of understand they wanted to change the inventory system but removing it COMPLETELY?
Come on I want loot! Even if its just a modification  or new armour parts every now and then!
Same as the mako, people complained about the controls and the boring planets and Bioware completely removed it.

Nowadays most of the time Biowares thought process seems to be roughly like: "If it needs tweaking, remove it."

Modifié par Dr.Seltsam, 08 juin 2011 - 07:31 .