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There were Good Things about Mass Effect 3 at E3, and also many Bad Things.


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#26
Khran1505

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People have their opinions about many things in these kind of gameplay mechanics and I wouldn't be one to say you're an idiot for thinking these bad sides are really. It's your opinion and that's fair enough. However, I have to whole-heartedly disagree with the bad things you've listed. The good, definately agreed with. But these...

1. Kinect. This feature looks totally useless at the moment. The same effect could be done with the headsets that all Xbox's come with. I sincerely hope that Microsoft subsidised the Kinect feature's development so no resources were wasted. They probably did.


Now I'm no Kinect user. I see it as something interesting but pointless for myself. My room's hardly big enough to support a Kinect so I'm forced to do without it and personally I couldn't care less. However, this Kinect feature is hardly mandatory. For anyone with a Kinect, this is an addition they can choose to exploit. If not, well that's fine. Yeah, I see it as a bit of a pointless gimmick but that all depends on the Kinect user. I definately wouldn't get a Kinect for this little feature but it's something Kinect users can already use so that's up to them.

2. The omni-blade. From a lore perspective, I hate it, but there's another thread for that. From a gameplay perspective, I am very suspicious that it will be totally unbalanced. There appears to be no limit on its use, and it appers to be able to kill any enemy that you are next to. What are shotguns for then? I'm not going to condemn it until I have more information, but I'm not optimistic


For me, this is a major upgrade for melee. I'm tired of running up to enemies and beating them with the same animation over and over. The way I see it, enemies will be very difficult to get up close and personal to in the end so if you're lucky enough tor each them without getting shredded to pieces, this will be your reward to hit with a one-strike kill. As for shotguns, they have much greater range than melee but obviously not as much as other weapons. Still, I'd rather have this than beating with the butt of my gun countless times in the same place.

3. Running to jump over random pits. Why was this included? Just in the short demo this happened twice. It appears totally pointless and boring. Was it just to show how good Shepard is at jumping?


Find a wide pit and try to jump over it twice, the first time while running and the second time while standing on the edge. It's not easy is it? The momentum from running and kicking off from the edge gives greater distance when you leap from the edge. This would be a required mechanic to get over spots you can't simply walk or climb over.

4. On rails shooting section. I hope this doesn't happen a lot. It also looked to be fairly pointless, though  I guess it was to show off how durable the Reaper-Crab was. And wasn't it weird that Shepard called the Reaper-Crab a "living Reaper"? It obviously looked much smaller than the Sovereign style reapers, so was it a full Reaper or a Reaper minion?


It's been explained Reapers range in sizes from 500m to 1km. Chances are before arriving on Rannoch and facing this Reaper here, he's seen all sorts of Reapers after escaping Earth of all shapes and sizes. Besides, the construct, material and size is too reminicent to a Reaper to be referred to as anything BUT. As for the rail shooter, I don't expect it to be constant but in cases such as this, it would be required to keep a Reaper off your tail while someone else was driving. These things do happen in war and this is no exception.

5. General lack of powers/RPG aspects/customization. I realize that this was just a reveal demo and that being spectacular and showing the improved mechanics was the focus, but I hope this doesn't mean RPG has been put on the backburner. But I always knew my hopes that Mass Effect 3 would truly have deep and complex RPG mechanics were pipepdreams.


It's a demo, like you said. We're not getting a full view of all the gameplay mechanics because they're hardly shown in trailers. As for the demo itself, it was more for showing the cinematic and actual gameplay. They demonstrate it all for the cinematic and fun gameplay feel. I doubt people in E3 would've enjoyed much just sitting there watching someone fumble around in the menu screen setting powers and customizing weapons. Regardless, we've been promised some heavier RPG aspects than ME2 and I won't doubt BioWare's word on that.

#27
moneycashgeorge

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Tamahome560 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

^ Yea well i disagree


You have every right to disagree but could you tell me why? Just curious as to what is wrong with the explanation that was proposed there or is it just simple ''I don't like it and won't accept any explanation for it'' that happens on BSN a lot :)


You were the one that said it was a holograph superimposed over an invisible kinetic barrier formed into a blade or something like that? If thats correct, there's several problems with that. For one, since when can omni-tools create kinetic barriers? Since when can kinetic barriers be formed into blades? Kinetic barriers used to turn blue when they activate, since when are they totally invisible?

In the end you may be right that Bioware uses this explanation, but it still comes totally out of nowhere. Its dissapointing to me, because I would like to be able to play all three games without their being totally jarring differences in technology's functions and abilities. But apparantly that isn't as important to Bioware as the "cool factor" of having a giant orange blade come out the wrist. Gotta clinch that "lightsaber fetish" market is suppose.

Why couldn't they have just stuck to what things could already do? Since Soldiers have supernatural strength and combat training, how about Soldiers use some martial arts? How about Vanguards use a Biotic Kick, which Kaiden talked about in the first game? And instead of Adept's ridiculous "psionic blades" (a clear Starcraft theft), which not a localized warp field? These are all things that are a part of Mass Effect already, yet apparantly they're not "cool" enough for Bioware anymore. I bet that they seemed plenty cool when Bioware created them and made them part of a cohesive universe back in Mass Effect 1, and they still do seem cool to me.

#28
Fidget6

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WHY are people complaining so much about the Kinect? It's completely optional and will have no effect whatsoever unless you want it to. Let the people who think it's cool enjoy it, and you can enjoy the game your way.....

I somewhat agree on #5 on the "bad" side though..... I do wonder how much RP'ing this "RPG" will have.

Modifié par Fidget6, 08 juin 2011 - 09:39 .


#29
ace1221

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moneycashgeorge wrote...

Tamahome560 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

^ Yea well i disagree


You have every right to disagree but could you tell me why? Just curious as to what is wrong with the explanation that was proposed there or is it just simple ''I don't like it and won't accept any explanation for it'' that happens on BSN a lot :)


You were the one that said it was a holograph superimposed over an invisible kinetic barrier formed into a blade or something like that? If thats correct, there's several problems with that. For one, since when can omni-tools create kinetic barriers? Since when can kinetic barriers be formed into blades? Kinetic barriers used to turn blue when they activate, since when are they totally invisible?

In the end you may be right that Bioware uses this explanation, but it still comes totally out of nowhere. Its dissapointing to me, because I would like to be able to play all three games without their being totally jarring differences in technology's functions and abilities. But apparantly that isn't as important to Bioware as the "cool factor" of having a giant orange blade come out the wrist. Gotta clinch that "lightsaber fetish" market is suppose.

Why couldn't they have just stuck to what things could already do? Since Soldiers have supernatural strength and combat training, how about Soldiers use some martial arts? How about Vanguards use a Biotic Kick, which Kaiden talked about in the first game? And instead of Adept's ridiculous "psionic blades" (a clear Starcraft theft), which not a localized warp field? These are all things that are a part of Mass Effect already, yet apparantly they're not "cool" enough for Bioware anymore. I bet that they seemed plenty cool when Bioware created them and made them part of a cohesive universe back in Mass Effect 1, and they still do seem cool to me.

unless you use a class in ME2 that uses barrier, its really quite evident that kinetic barriers are invisible until fired upon! check it out sometime. The omni-blade relies on pre-existing omnitool tech (drones, tech shields etc), so its clearly there. also i wish people would stop complaining about the psionic blades: we havent even seen them yet!

#30
Phaedon

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moneycashgeorge wrote...

Tamahome560 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

^ Yea well i disagree


You have every right to disagree but could you tell me why? Just curious as to what is wrong with the explanation that was proposed there or is it just simple ''I don't like it and won't accept any explanation for it'' that happens on BSN a lot :)


You were the one that said it was a holograph superimposed over an invisible kinetic barrier formed into a blade or something like that? If thats correct, there's several problems with that. For one, since when can omni-tools create kinetic barriers? Since when can kinetic barriers be formed into blades? Kinetic barriers used to turn blue when they activate, since when are they totally invisible?

In the end you may be right that Bioware uses this explanation, but it still comes totally out of nowhere. Its dissapointing to me, because I would like to be able to play all three games without their being totally jarring differences in technology's functions and abilities. But apparantly that isn't as important to Bioware as the "cool factor" of having a giant orange blade come out the wrist. Gotta clinch that "lightsaber fetish" market is suppose.

Why couldn't they have just stuck to what things could already do? Since Soldiers have supernatural strength and combat training, how about Soldiers use some martial arts? How about Vanguards use a Biotic Kick, which Kaiden talked about in the first game? And instead of Adept's ridiculous "psionic blades" (a clear Starcraft theft), which not a localized warp field? These are all things that are a part of Mass Effect already, yet apparantly they're not "cool" enough for Bioware anymore. I bet that they seemed plenty cool when Bioware created them and made them part of a cohesive universe back in Mass Effect 1, and they still do seem cool to me.

No, this is why it has to work:

Phaedon wrote...

Neofelis, I have to say that your signature does contradict you, but not for that reason.

Drones hurt people, right? Why? Because they have physical components. Hell, in order to be visible, they'd need something to be projected from, and that's clearly not the omni-tool, since they can go way too far from you, and in angles, where light projected from your own omni-tool wouldn't work.

Omni-tools must have components for those reasons (from ME1, there are much more from ME2):
a. Projection
b. Transmission of Information
c. Flashlights

Therefore, we have three facts:
a. Omni-tools have some physical components
b. Drones have some physical components
c. Therefore, the physical components of the drones are produced from the physical components from the omni-tools. 

I would have to go with this proposed model:
Image IPB
It's irrelevant, but it's still cool, and I thought that you'd find it interesting.

Anyway, in the case that the omni-blade works just like the drones, then that's it, problem solved.

If it doesn't work in that way, then it would have to be a transparent material with mini-robots (just like the drones) projecting the haptic interface, and well, I don't see how that's an issue either.

I sincerely hope that this helps. ;)


And this is how it works.

#31
Lady Olivia

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Fidget6 wrote...

I somewhat agree on #5 on the "bad" side though..... I do wonder how much RP'ing this "RPG" will have.

As much or more than ME2 if you believe the announcements (and why not?). In this case, "more" can't be "bad" and the same goes for any and all additional possibilities for interaction - ladders, chasms, jumping, melee. It's all decidedly good.



Phaedon wrote...

And this is how it works.

Sounds plausible enough. What's all the fuss about?
 

Modifié par Lady Olivia, 08 juin 2011 - 10:11 .


#32
Gibb_Shepard

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Makes sense, i would've prefered it if the Omni Blade was exclusive to engineers/sentinels however, and the vanguards/adepts have some kind of biotic blade.

Anyway, overall, i quite liked the presentation. Combat looked much less linear, the guns sounded powerful, and graphics looked unreal.

They should've had more variety with their demos though, although i know they went with heavy combat to attract newcomers, variety still would've been nice.

#33
Phaedon

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Makes sense, i would've prefered it if the Omni Blade was exclusive to engineers/sentinels however, and the vanguards/adepts have some kind of biotic blade.

Anyway, overall, i quite liked the presentation. Combat looked much less linear, the guns sounded powerful, and graphics looked unreal.

They should've had more variety with their demos though, although i know they went with heavy combat to attract newcomers, variety still would've been nice.

Agreed.

#34
SkittlesKat96

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1. I'm happy to see that they are putting more 'wow' into the cinematics and going ons in ME 3 too, I just hope it doesn't take away from the budget and time too much. The Mass Effect series from what I've heard is becoming more popular and getting a bigger budget though so when they make future games I'm sure they will have a really big budget to use.

2.  The combat didn't look too intense but I suppose they would have had it on the easiest mode. I think the combat and combat gameplay looked great too. It's a big step up and I'm sure it will be easier to keep it that way if not better in future games.

3. I agree.

4. I agree with this too.

5. I think all the characters from the previous game are pretty great characters and I'm also glad to see that a lot of them are becoming more important to the storyline. And I think they are realistic cameos too, Shepard is a powerful and important person and he associates with the most skilled and awesome people in the galaxy.

6. I like this too, the scale of this game seems great and I think they finally have all their ideas set and a big enough budget and opportunity to do this sort of stuff and they've learnt from their previous games and whatnot.

Bad stuff:

1. As long as its not mandatory or intrusive I suppose its not so bad...worries me that they are wasting time and money on a feature that might not pay off though.

2. Eh I haven't seen the thread about the omniblade so I can't comment about it but I don't really think its a big deal and I'm sure it will be balanced but like I said I haven't read the codex entries since like 2007 and don't know enough about the lore of stuff like this.

3. Well the jumping and climbing features in the game are supposed to be prominent and important so maybe they just thought "why not". I think its a good thing they have all this jumping and climbing and melee cause it just makes the game feel less generic and adds a bit of flavor and style instead of it just feeling like ME 2 where you had your gun and you just ran around shooting and going room to room, I like all these sort of interactable things.'

4. Like I said before even though its a little pointless I think it adds to the variety a bit more and makes parts of the game feel more bigger and interesting, I'm also happy to see warfare turrets in the game. Also I'm a little unsure about this whole "smaller reapers" lore thing they have going on. Sure they never really said that all Reapers are the same size but we all kind of assumed that and I really hope they don't use it as an excuse and make like 80% of the Reapers weaker than Sovereign and Harbinger and make the whole war seem easier. The Reapers are meant to be downright much stronger than all the fleets in Citadel space combined and need to be taken down with skill, flexibility and tactics I reckon.

5. I'm guessing a lot of the 'Investigate' and extra dialog hasn't been done yet and they are still working on things like balancing and customization or something...they didn't even have Mordin's proper voice in the game yet (Mark Meer did a great job at it though) maybe they will have a trailer or video or something displaying the customization, that would be cool.

#35
redBadger14

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shinobi602 wrote...

I only saw good things.

God I love my taste in games. I'm almost never disappointed. =P


This. Well said old friend :D

I'll be more specific OP. Here's why I disagree with your Negatives of the ME3 E3 demo, in order of how you listed them:

1. Kinect voice recognition is more accurate than any microphone. I've played games that allow voice commands to be issued to AI through the mic, and they all suck because the voice recognition just sucks. Kinect voice support also doesnt add that much cost or time to the game development. And since its not mandatory for you to use, I dont see why its a problem for anyone.

2. It's known and has been touched on by members who replied here prior; the omni-blade makes perfect sense in regards to the lore. Also, this ME3 demo is likely Alpha stage. Expect the omni-blade to have some sort of cooldown timer in the full game (with exception to successful omni-blade stealth kills) or some other form of proper balancing.

3. Again, don't see how its necessarily bad. It's more diverse than running down a hallway, or up a ramp, or down a ramp, etc.

4. This point conflicts with your Good Point #4 about the scale of ME3. While I believe on-rails sections shouldn't be incessantly frequent throughout the game, on-rails sections allow grand scale battles to be waged on screen. A perfect example is one of the early missions of Bulletstorm where you're riding a train while a gigantic mechanic wheel is barrelling toward you. This was an on-rails section, and it was grand scale escape scene. Even later in Bulletstorm during a fight with a "dinosaur-like" boss, again on-rails and again grand scale. That is all on-rails should serve, and from the demo the ME3 on-rails fight with the Reaper was certainly adding to the grand scale.

5. The RPG features are there, they just aren't being shown. Remember, E3 is an entertainment expo, and while all of us would love to see the RPG features in ME3, it just wont happen at E3. People would rather see the improved gameplay and combat than look at level-up screens and Codex pages, because its more exciting.

So to wrap up, don't fret. BioWare had to set up the E3 demo to show off new features while making it entertaining for the most part. Everything else as well should be fine.

Modifié par redBadger14, 08 juin 2011 - 03:59 .


#36
AlanC9

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Does the omni-blade actually cause 1-hit kills? I thought the demo showed an enemy being wounded and stunned, but not killed

#37
Guitar-Hero

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I can only say i disagree, and leave it at that.

#38
sp0ck 06

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IS Mass Effect going too far into pure Action? WHAT ABOUT THE ARR-PEE-JEE Elements?!

Well then do I have the perfect game for you! Here it is! A shot for shot description of the E3 trailer! In full detail! It's the trailer ever TRUE roleplayer wants to see!

It's an epic new action RPG. One
that has impressive next-gen graphics that border on painstakingly
beautiful, voice acting for thousands of lines of dialogue for even the
most minor of NPCs, a branching plot line that accounts for virtually
every decision and indecision the player makes, fluid, visceral combat
that redefines action . . . and they start their trailer with a menu
screen.

It's a customization screen for the local horse-seller;
mostly text, as the invisible user scrolls through boring UI menu
options detailing which style of horseshoe they want on their new mare.
CUT TO BLACK-

TEXT - "In an age long past . . ."

CUT TO - A
diablo-esque grid based gear menu. Someone is sorting their loot. They
hold their mouse pointer over two daggers that have the same appearance
but slightly different stats. They go back and forth trying to decide
which one they want for their build . . . CUT TO BLACK

TEXT - "A hero will rise . . . "

CUT
TO - A Blacksmith's list of wares. The user scrolls over the sell tab.
Sells off a few pieces of armor, all the same type. Obvious vendor
trash. Just as they're about to hit the "exit" button we CUT TO BLACK

TEXT - "A journey will commence . . . "

CUT
TO - Back to the inventory grid. The mouse pointer picks up one of the
daggers. Drags it to the trash icon, but doesn't let go yet. The dagger
floats there for a few seconds. The player's pensive. Should they throw
the dagger away? They hold there . . . and then put it back in their
inventory and mouse over the other dagger to read the stats again. CUT
TO BLACK

TEXT - "An Empire Will Crumble . . . ."

CUT TO - A
book of in game lore. The font makes it difficult to read as it's in
some kind of calligraphy. The shot holds on the page for about twenty
seconds, enough for us to read a couple of paragraphs but not enough to
finish the entire page. The player was just finishing up that page you
see. The book's page flips and we see two full pages of further text,
and we hold for ten more seconds while very faint music is heard in the
background. The kind of idle, generic, tavern you hear in any RPG inn.
After ten seconds, long enough to begin reading this massive wall of
text for which we have no frame of reference, and obviously in the
middle of probably twelve pages, we again CUT TO BLACK

TEXT - "An Evil Will Awake . . ."

CUT
TO - An obvious loading screen. A fairy's wings flap in the lower right
corner to let you know the game hasn't crashed. They animate in that
stuttering way all loading screen icons animate. A tootip fads in the on
the center of the screen. It reads "Did you know that there are 46
variations to your main combat style? Each with 3 different
specialization paths? Choose wisely! A Jack of All Trades is a Master of
. . . Gnome!" CUT TO BLACK.

TEXT - ". . . and Only You Can Save The World!"

CUT
TO - the armor grid again. The mouse goes back and forth between the
two daggers quickly. It stops over the one it didn't try to throw away
earlier for a couple of seconds . . . but then throws away the one it
almost did earlier. CUT TO BLACK.

TEXT - "The Elfwar Chronicles VII - The Obsidian Blades" FADE DOWN
FADE UP - TEXT - Coming Soon.

Again, check the confirmed features thread for more info on the RPG elements.


Lol this is funny.

#39
Walker White

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AlanC9 wrote...

Does the omni-blade actually cause 1-hit kills? I thought the demo showed an enemy being wounded and stunned, but not killed


It looked like it was one hit for the mission where he lets the Cerberus agent walk up and nearly touch him on the shoulder.  I suspect it depends on difficulty.

#40
kregano

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AlanC9 wrote...

Does the omni-blade actually cause 1-hit kills? I thought the demo showed an enemy being wounded and stunned, but not killed

Yes, but it requires aiming at the head, executing a stealth kill, or wearing down the enemy's health down to a point that he can be killed in one hit. The example you mentioned is what happens when you just randomly omniblade-you injure and stun the enemy, but not kill him.

#41
Thompson family

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No dispute on the good things

moneycashgeorge wrote...


And now the Bad Things.....

1. Kinect. This feature looks totally useless at the moment. The same effect could be done with the headsets that all Xbox's come with. I sincerely hope that Microsoft subsidised the Kinect feature's development so no resources were wasted. They probably did.


I'm a hard-core PC grognard. I think the console wars are silly. For the first time, I'd consider playing ME on my son's Xbox 360. I wouldn't use it to pick options on the dialouge wheel. That's just redundant. However, the opportunity to launch a warp simply by saying "Warp" is intriguing.



2. The omni-blade. From a lore perspective, I hate it, but there's another thread for that. From a gameplay perspective, I am very suspicious that it will be totally unbalanced. There appears to be no limit on its use, and it appers to be able to kill any enemy that you are next to. What are shotguns for then? I'm not going to condemn it until I have more information, but I'm not optimistic


I had exactly the opposite reaction. I thought that it was a particularly glaring problem that my Shepard — a soldier — didn't have a better close combat weapon than his fists. Frankly, that's been a burr under my saddle since the series began, especially since all versions of the game feature swarming close-rang only attackers like husks and such. The lack was particularly galling in the boss fight in LotSB.

Even Tali has a knife -- in her boot. Never takes it out, though.


3. Running to jump over random pits. Why was this included? Just in the short demo this happened twice. It appears totally pointless and boring. Was it just to show how good Shepard is at jumping?



Simply don't see a problem here, especially since a lot of the demos we saw were planets that had been attacked, leaving lots of holes and debris.

4. On rails shooting section. I hope this doesn't happen a lot.


Don't really care

5. General lack of powers/RPG aspects/customization. I realize that this was just a reveal demo and that being spectacular and showing the improved mechanics was the focus ...


Can't give a better answer to that point than you did.

Modifié par Thompson family, 08 juin 2011 - 04:37 .


#42
Erani

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I agree with your list of "good" and #5 "bad". Hopefully we'll get to see more of the RPG features in the near future.

#43
kalpain

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Bad # 4

It wasn't so much that it was on rails as much as it seem to be completely pointless to be shooting at the reaper with that gun. I like the scale and scope of that whole event but seriously that rail gun or what ever was literally did nothing. When I get to that part in the game I'm going to enjoy the scenery. Unless that gun is some sort of a distraction for the multiple airstrikes it's going to take out to kill that reaper. If that will even kill it...

#44
ladyvader

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As someone that owns a Kinect, I probably won't use it at first. I am thinking of just unplugging it from the console, so I don't say something I don't want to happen. Now after a few playthroughs, I will probably use it to see how good it works. But telling a squadmate to use a power does seem cool to me.

#45
TheOtherTheoG

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Bad #5: Has anyone actually watched the Gamespot live demo yet? You know, the one where they showed the squad point allocation system and weapon customisation? No?

#46
Cainne Chapel

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Yeah I do have to say if they keep the skill customization... I'm even more geeked than I was... it'll really give a different depth to my sure to be many...many playthroughs if i tweak my powers and abilities differently each time