63 réponses à ce sujet

[Dariuszp]

Hi,
after seeing some videos and stuff i ask myself - Why there was ME2 ? Bioware told us that we got reapers to kill and whole ME was about it. Then we got ME2.

~ we got another enemy. Feel like enemies from ME with diferent design to me.
~ 90% of the game we gather team. Nothing more.
~ we kill that new enemy
~ at the end - nothing change. Game is just like at the begining. We wait for reapers. 

So why ME2 was even created ? They didn't move plot at all. In advert Shepard was killed and it was interesting but after 5 min of gameplay it was clear out. They destroy our ship but we got new - almost the same. We didn't learn anything new. Only thing new are new team members.

Just asking. Still, ME2 was fun. I like it. It's very nice 3rd person shooter. But I dont see point in this game. Part 1 was ofcourse important. Part 3 is some kind of epilog so they probably make for us "big finish". But i dont see point in ME2 right now.

And something funny ;-D Bioware at E3 say that ME3 will be their best game :-) Aliens trying destroy earth against main hero - yes... very original :-D When BW switch from RPG to shooters ?

Anyway, ME3 look like good game to me. Something like Gears of War. Dodge, cover, shoot and kill loot of aliens to save the world. Like that.

[marshalleck]

They needed filler.

[Phaedon]

Oh boy, this thread again.

Textbook Second Act argument all over this place:

-Change conditions/enviroment. Not necessary, but it helps keep things interesting.
-Maintain the overreaching threat.
-Take a deeper look at the overreaching threat's nature (Guess, what, the Reapers aren't robots)
-Investigate themes that will be important in the third act. (Confirmed thus far: Geth/Quarian conflict, Cerberus, Genophage)
-Collect resources that will be necessary in the final battle (Normandy SR2, EDI, team)
-Provide character development for vital characters of the third act (TIM, Garrus, Liara, Tali, Legion, Mordin, and the rest of the team)

Please don't post a thread that has been posted a million times before next time. Thank you.

--
Watch any trilogy without watching the second act. While the third act is probably still better than the first, it's not as good. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 08 juin 2011 - 09:57 .

[Flashlegend]

I asked myself this very same question after beating ME2 for the first time and then throughout subsequent playthroughs of the game and once again when we got the arrival DLC. I guess you could say that it was to flesh out and to personally meet/influence other plot integral peoples/problems of the ME universe like the Geth, the Quarians, and the genophage. Other then that, it was pointless and the human reaper was retarded.

[Fidget6]

It's the second part of a planned trilogy, of course it's going to seem the most awkward and out of place, because the entire game they're building up to the finale.

[Cainne Chapel]

Well using that logic, its basically like saying, why read the first and middle chapters of the book? Skip to the last chapter and read the epilogue and you'll get everything you need out of it.

or.... Read the Cliff Notes.

So I ask you... why do we need ME1 or ME2 if I can just play ME3 and boom have it all wrapped up in one game?

[Flashlegend]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Well using that logic, its basically like saying, why read the first and middle chapters of the book? Skip to the last chapter and read the epilogue and you'll get everything you need out of it.

or.... Read the Cliff Notes.

So I ask you... why do we need ME1 or ME2 if I can just play ME3 and boom have it all wrapped up in one game?

Not exactly. He's saying ME2 didn't do anything to advance the overarching plot which is very true to an extent. You could play ME1, Lotsb, arrival and still be fine to play ME3. Yes, you would miss out on some character depthening and some plot involved issues like the quarian politics, the true geth, and the genophage research but you would still be in decent shape.

He never says anything about ME1 not being important, don't see why you mentioned it all.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 08 juin 2011 - 10:09 .

[Wulfram]

I do wonder if we wouldn't have been better off with just having both ME2 and ME3 being about the actual reaper invasion, rather than cramming it all into the final game.

[Tripedius]

The second part of the lord of the rings trilogy didn't change much either. Got another enemy (Saruman) but defeating the big bad is still the ultimate goal. Frodo is still on his journey, etc. It's just the fate of most second parts (movies not included). And be honest is more ME not better than less ME?

[Manic Sheep]

*sigh* this again. You can't judge whether the 2nd was pointless or not until you have played the 3rd one and its almost always the weakest in a trilogy.
Even if the main plot with the collectors was not particularly relevant and the main plot didn't seem to advance too much there are plenty of things in introduced in ME2 that will likely be relevant to ME3 and now all this won’t need to be crammed into it and it won’t seem random if some of the stuff from ME2 becomes a big deal.
Off the top of my head.
Shepard being resurrected by the Lazarus project.
Shepard having worked with Cerberus
Collector base and tech.
It was because of working with Cerberus we got EDI and the SR2.
Geneophage and the state of the krogan (especialy in regards to Wrex).
the quarians vs geth
geth vs heretics.
Geth weather changing technology.
Dark energy.
Introduction to important characters (like the illusive man) and expansion on Cerberus who we knew next to nothing about at the end of ME1 and the universe in general. We also now know more about the reapers and how they are made.
They also need shepard to being doing something while the reapers got here and probably needed to find an excuse to split up the team so they could move those characters into different places.It also probably allowed bioware to experiment with different things, gamplay and how imports would work before the finale

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 08 juin 2011 - 10:25 .

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

Phaedon wrote...

Oh boy, this thread again.

Textbook Second Act argument all over this place:

-Change conditions/enviroment. Not necessary, but it helps keep things interesting.
-Maintain the overreaching threat.
-Take a deeper look at the overreaching threat's nature (Guess, what, the Reapers aren't robots)
-Investigate themes that will be important in the third act. (Confirmed thus far: Geth/Quarian conflict, Cerberus, Genophage)
-Collect resources that will be necessary in the final battle (Normandy SR2, EDI, team)
-Provide character development for vital characters of the third act (TIM, Garrus, Liara, Tali, Legion, Mordin, and the rest of the team)

Please don't post a thread that has been posted a million times before next time. Thank you.

--
Watch any trilogy without watching the second act. While the third act is probably still better than the first, it's not as good. 

^This.
You would not be able to get the same character development while in full-scale war against the Reapers.

[Phaedon]

Flashlegend wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Well using that logic, its basically like saying, why read the first and middle chapters of the book? Skip to the last chapter and read the epilogue and you'll get everything you need out of it.

or.... Read the Cliff Notes.

So I ask you... why do we need ME1 or ME2 if I can just play ME3 and boom have it all wrapped up in one game?

Not exactly. He's saying ME2 didn't do anything to advance the overarching plot which is very true to an extent. You could play ME1, Lotsb, arrival and still be fine to play ME3. Yes, you would miss out on some character depthening and some plot involved issues like the quarian politics, the true geth, and the genophage research but you would still be in decent shape.

He never says anything about ME1 not being important, don't see why you mentioned it all.

No, it's not, what are you on about.

If it wasn't for ME2, we would still think that the Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago and that the Reapers are robots.

[GnusmasTHX]

You also missed the part where the Collector's died and Harbinger/the rest of the Reapers woke immediately after their last contingency plan failed. (Or Harbinger woke the rest of the Reapers).

[hawat333]

Storywise?
To get in touch witch Cerberus and Timmy Tim, mainly.

[Dariuszp]

 It's not like I don't like ME2 :-) I love part 1 and i did like part 2 :-) It was something new and refreshing. Putting Gears of War along with some new aliens, very nice world around and evil reapers who try to kill humans (again :-D) with some RPG elements was very nice idea.
But it's just funny how ME2 was just a filler between part 1 and 3. 
@phaedon,
-Change conditions/enviroment. Not necessary, but it helps keep things interesting.-Maintain the overreaching threat.

What threat. Reapers aren there. We got bunch of bugs to kill.

-Take a deeper look at the overreaching threat's nature (Guess, what, the Reapers aren't robots)-Investigate themes that will be important in the third act. (Confirmed thus far: Geth/Quarian conflict, Cerberus, Genophage)

It was all in part one. Cerberus looking for human interests in any means nessesery, geth/quarian conflict, genophage etc...

-Collect resources that will be necessary in the final battle (Normandy SR2, EDI, team)

Same thing we done in part one. In ME2 90% of the game we were adding new members. Nothing more.  EDI could be mounted in SR1 and Normandy is just little redesigned ship. 

-Provide character development for vital characters of the third act (TIM, Garrus, Liara, Tali, Legion, Mordin, and the rest of the team)
Vital ? :| Yeah right

ME2 was fun but it was unimportand. And I was hoping for nice story (when i saw Shepard death in trailer) and stuff and they kill most of it in first 5 minutes. And part one of the game was not even important in part 2. We just got few new dialogues in some places. Nothing fancy. No real impact.

[Flashlegend]

Phaedon wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Well using that logic, its basically like saying, why read the first and middle chapters of the book? Skip to the last chapter and read the epilogue and you'll get everything you need out of it.

or.... Read the Cliff Notes.

So I ask you... why do we need ME1 or ME2 if I can just play ME3 and boom have it all wrapped up in one game?

Not exactly. He's saying ME2 didn't do anything to advance the overarching plot which is very true to an extent. You could play ME1, Lotsb, arrival and still be fine to play ME3. Yes, you would miss out on some character depthening and some plot involved issues like the quarian politics, the true geth, and the genophage research but you would still be in decent shape.

He never says anything about ME1 not being important, don't see why you mentioned it all.

No, it's not, what are you on about.

If it wasn't for ME2, we would still think that the Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago and that the Reapers are robots.

Yea, big deal we learn a few things in ME2. But the main plot of story doesn't advance.

End of ME1: reapers are coming
End of ME2: reapers are coming but now they're closer.

As for the collectors being genetically modified protheans and the reapers being partially organic(i don't like retcons btw): thats great but if those things don't play a role in ME3 it will be dissapointing.

However I do think that ME2 does a lot to flesh out the ME universe, characters, introduce characters and allow the player to make important decisions on issues that will be important like the genophage.

[Phaedon]

Flashlegend wrote...

Yea, big deal we learn a few things in ME2. But the main plot of story doesn't advance.

End of ME1: reapers are coming
End of ME2: reapers are coming but now they're closer.

No. The Reapers were never coming in ME1. They didn't wake up until after ME2. Also, the Council not believing you, Alliance abandoning you, 2 years passing, the Reapers working on Plan B, and failing it, and joining Cerberus is not advancement?

As for the collectors being genetically modified protheans and the reapers being partially organic(i don't like retcons btw): thats great but if those things don't play a role in ME3 it will be dissapointing.

The collectors were the solution to the overreaching plot of the Protheans, which was very important in ME1, the nature of the Reapers has been the trilogy's overreaching plot since ME1. It will obviously be resolved at ME3.

However I do think that ME2 does a lot to flesh out the ME universe, characters, introduce characters and allow the player to make important decisions on issues that will be important like the genophage.

So, ME2 was needed after all then?

Dariuszp wrote...

 It's not like I don't like ME2 :-) I love part 1 and i did like part 2 :-) It was something new and refreshing. Putting Gears of War along with some new aliens, very nice world around and evil reapers who try to kill humans (again :-D) with some RPG elements was very nice idea.
But it's just funny how ME2 was just a filler between part 1 and 3. 
@phaedon,
-Change conditions/enviroment. Not necessary, but it helps keep things interesting.-Maintain the overreaching threat.

What threat. Reapers aren there. We got bunch of bugs to kill.

The overreaching threat is the one that is shown in the third act, and the first two acts tend to be a preparation for that. The Reapers are the overreaching threat, Saren and the Collectors were threats, but not overreaching.

-Take a deeper look at the overreaching threat's nature (Guess, what, the Reapers aren't robots)-Investigate themes that will be important in the third act. (Confirmed thus far: Geth/Quarian conflict, Cerberus, Genophage)

It was all in part one. Cerberus looking for human interests in any means nessesery, geth/quarian conflict, genophage etc...

investigate

You are not paying attention. The depiction of all of these themes, especially the Cerberus one were very superficial in ME1. Also, there is the geth schism.

-Collect resources that will be necessary in the final battle (Normandy SR2, EDI, team)

Same thing we done in part one. In ME2 90% of the game we were adding new members. Nothing more.  EDI could be mounted in SR1 and Normandy is just little redesigned ship.

What are you talking about? The SR1 is gone. 
You won't be using it in ME3, that's it. The SR2 and EDI which will be used in the final battle weren't introduced until the beginning of ME2.

-Provide character development for vital characters of the third act (TIM, Garrus, Liara, Tali, Legion, Mordin, and the rest of the team)
Vital ? :| Yeah right

Unless you have some proof as to why confirmed squadmates are not important, you are trolling really hard there, mate.

ME2 was fun but it was unimportand. And I was hoping for nice story (when i saw Shepard death in trailer) and stuff and they kill most of it in first 5 minutes. And part one of the game was not even important in part 2. We just got few new dialogues in some places. Nothing fancy. No real impact.

You make no sense. Rephrase.

Modifié par Phaedon, 08 juin 2011 - 10:42 .

[tenshi_no_hone]

Flashlegend wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Well using that logic, its basically like saying, why read the first and middle chapters of the book? Skip to the last chapter and read the epilogue and you'll get everything you need out of it.

or.... Read the Cliff Notes.

So I ask you... why do we need ME1 or ME2 if I can just play ME3 and boom have it all wrapped up in one game?

Not exactly. He's saying ME2 didn't do anything to advance the overarching plot which is very true to an extent. You could play ME1, Lotsb, arrival and still be fine to play ME3. Yes, you would miss out on some character depthening and some plot involved issues like the quarian politics, the true geth, and the genophage research but you would still be in decent shape.

He never says anything about ME1 not being important, don't see why you mentioned it all.

No, it's not, what are you on about.

If it wasn't for ME2, we would still think that the Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago and that the Reapers are robots.

Yea, big deal we learn a few things in ME2. But the main plot of story doesn't advance.

End of ME1: reapers are coming
End of ME2: reapers are coming but now they're closer.

As for the collectors being genetically modified protheans and the reapers being partially organic(i don't like retcons btw): thats great but if those things don't play a role in ME3 it will be dissapointing.

However I do think that ME2 does a lot to flesh out the ME universe, characters, introduce characters and allow the player to make important decisions on issues that will be important like the genophage.

Of course the plot hasn't advanced if you describe it in terms that simplistic but that sort of thinking would apply to any trilogy you can think of:
Lord of the Rings 3: Frodo and Sam still taking the ring to Mordor, but they've gotten closer
Star Wars VI: Rebel Alliance including Luke, Han etc gather to try to defeat the empire
You can predict the same for The Dark Knight Rises: Batman tries to win over the people of Gotham and stop a madman from ripping the city apart

It's a continuing story thread. If you dismiss the plot as that single thread then the middle of the trilogy always appears to have gone nowhere with the story because it has neither introduced nor concluded it. Overarching plot is bigger than the primary thread. By this argument you could skip the middle of a game or movie too. But why would you? It'd be awful!

Modifié par tenshi_no_hone, 08 juin 2011 - 11:50 .

[LGTX]

Advance WHAT overarching plot? You wanted the Reapers to invade in ME2? Or what? I don't get it... ME2 was a tremendously contributive setup to future alliances and war outcomes in ME3, be it the geth/quarian conflict, the Genophage, the Terminus mercenary wipeouts, or the DLC missions.

[candidate88766]

ME2 fleshed out the universe and the characters.

The Reapers couldn't arrive in part 2, otherwise it would be you've just saved the Citadel, stopped the Reapers and oh, wait, they're here. ME1's plot had to wrapped up in case it flopped, so ME2 had to introduce some new stuff, like the Collectors.

Take a look at LoTR, the Two Towers: in the book Saruman is defeated, but Frodo and Sam don't get much closer to Mordor and the heroes aren't much closer to defeating Sauron, they've only defeated one of his allies - but they've still indirectly been fighting him. This is the same as ME2 - you defeat the Collectors, which is an indirect defeat of the Reapers. A lot of other stuff happens; its more an expansion and exploration of the plot rather than an advancement of it.

We discovered the fate of the Protheans.
We discovered how Reapers are made, and that they are interested in humanity.
We discovered we aren't the first civilization to kill a Reaper. I think that is really significant.
We met a host of new characters.
We were given tools that will help in part 3: a powerful team, a new ship with potentially Reaper-grade weapons, and EDI who has anti-Reaper algorithms.
We explored some of the overarching plot points in more detail; the Genophage, the Geth-Quarian conflict, Cerberus' morality.
We were shown the darker, grittier side of the Mass Effect universe, and were confronted much more the grey area of morality.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, we've been set up with many of the plot points which will tie into alliances in ME3.

Modifié par candidate88766, 08 juin 2011 - 10:50 .

[CaptainZaysh]

The OP has a valid point. ME1 was about defeating the Reapers' battle plan B. In terms of story alone, at the end of ME2 we're still in the same sort of place we were in at the end of ME1. The plot hasn't really advanced.

It might have been better if the plot of ME2 had been more strongly tied to the impending Reaper invasion.

[tenshi_no_hone]

@CaptainZaysh

Look at several of the above posts (including mine!)

The plot you're talking about could only really advance by concluding it. If the trilogy is about thwarting the Reapers' plans, how exactly could the middle entry in a trilogy 'advance' this plot to your satisfaction? I think it was a great entry in the middle, effectively setting up most of the relationships and species' conflicts for the final chapter in ME3

[Collider]

If none of the new squad mates in ME2 are squad mates in ME3, I'd say that ME2 comes close to being useless.

[Cainne Chapel]

How was it NOT strongly tied to the impending reaper invasion? We essentially defeated the Reapers PLan B after sovreign failed. So their main and contingency plans were thwarted in 1 and 2.

and as others have said there was a BUNCH more going on than just the main storyline thread.

[LGTX]

Collider wrote...

If none of the new squad mates in ME2 are squad mates in ME3, I'd say that ME2 comes close to being useless.

You were gathering a crew for a suicide mission in ME2, and that's done. As a side-note which was optional, you also created alliances for the Reaper war (by the way, that's why we ACTUALLY needed ME2). Which means: squadmates from ME2 are mostly irrelevant to ME3, regardless of how much you love them and want to have them back. Except, of course, for the ones who directly serve the purpose I mentioned above, like Tali/Legion and Mordin/Grunt.