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ME3 - why we even need ME2 ?


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#51
candidate88766

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LGTX wrote...

kaiki01 wrote...

This is the definition of useful that I will be using. "Having a practical or beneficial use."
This is the definition of plot that I will be using. "The main events of a play, novel, movie, or similar work, devised and presented by the writer as an interrelated sequence."

So, do the main events of ME2 have a practical or benficial use. Yes and yes. 
First, the benefical use that the main events have. The story, characters and settings in ME2 were enjoyable to experiance. The plot served as the way in which the players could navigate these fictional elements in an attempt to maximize entertainment. So, short answer, the plot of ME2 is enjoyable to experiance. Or, at least I found it enjoyable to experiance. That is the beneficial use of the ME2 plot, it provided entertainment.
Second, the practical use that the main events have. What would be missing from the over-arching plot of the ME story if ME2 was not told. These missing elements can be broken down into a couple of points.

1. Insight into the Reapers
2. Setting up a Krogan & Council resolution to the genophage
3. Setting up a renewed Geth & Quarian conflict

Before I go into these points, there are the only elements that I can guess at, considering I have not played ME3 and do not know what elements from ME2 will come to play in ME3.

First point. The Collectors & final Reaper boss gives the players more information about the modus operandi of the Reapers. The facts that we know are that the Collectors used to be Prothean. And, that the Reapers use biological material to create new Reapers. Also, the Reapers are targeting humanity for reasons that may be related to the two previously stated reasons. I these facts give the suggestion that Reapers use whatever biological life they do not kill. Looking at the Keepers as additional backing for this idea. Coupled with the fact that the Reapers use biological material to create more of themselves, it seems that the Reapers are more complex then intelligent machines bent on wiping out all biological life. I speculate that this will come into play in ME3 as we learn more about the Reapers & their motivations.

Second point. While in ME1 we know about the genophage, in ME2 a possible cure for the genophage is introduced in a more sophisticated fashion then "smash cure, stop Saren army". Not only is a possible cure introduced, we are given the context around that cure. The environment the Krogan survive in due to the genophate, the guilt of some Solarians, etc. By now we know that ME3 will involve organizing the galaxy to fight the Reapers. I would speculate that this issue will be at the heart of if the Krogan join on Shepards side, or some other factor we do not know. Without ME2 we would lose most of the information players have and the context of that information. It is one thing to be told by the codex that Solarians are trying to cure the Krogan & the Krogans suffer because of the genophage. It is another to experiance that situation.

Third point. This will be short as the same arguments for my second point can be made here. ME2 provides more information, and context more importantly, about the Geth & Quarian situation. The player's involvment with the Quarians end with their Admiralty aruging over war wih the Geth. It is not far-fetched to believe this will be a major component of the ME3 plot.

Those three points were the practical uses of the ME2 plot. Context, information and providing the foundation for the ME3 plot.


I absolutely agree. That is why ME2 critically benefits ME3. Of course, some players may choose to skip loyalty missions and potentially miss your 2nd and 3rd points, but their presence remains as a scenesetter for what's to come.


Quoted for truth and glory.

I'd also add that ME2 was more an expansion of the plot as opposed to a linear continuation. Like many 2nd acts from trilogies, it foucsed on some of the side stuff from the first act and either resolved them or set them up for the final act. I think some people are just missing the point of ME2, and I also think that what some people are calling side plots were actually major plot points.

#52
Phaedon

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Personally, I'm a little sad that almost static, melancholic atmosphere the first game had going on is pretty much gone. Nowadays it just seems to be like "LOOK, COOL NEW ENEMY! BAM, SHEPARD DIES! WOAH, INSTANT RESURRECTION! YAY, GIANT SPACE EXPLOSIONS! CHECK THIS OUT, AWESOME LIGHTSABER KNOCK-OFF!"

Congratulations, you look like a jerk now, mister.

Stuff like this is just shallow and non-constructive cricism that only helps at you looking bad and elitist.

Posting "ME2 is like a Michael Bay now, c00l explozions, ASSSS EFFECT 2, PEW PEW PEW"

doesn't help your argument or make you look good, it does quite the opposite.
I am sure that we are all sick of this attitude people had back on the old boards, which lead in their very poor quality, so let's drop it please.


sponge56 wrote...

I don't understand why this is still going on, its like people are ignoring everyone who quotes the fact that as the second act it follows the general rule of trilogies. You can say that you didn't like the plot but you can't say it was pointless. I don't even think this is even debatable

Because people want to complain? 

There is no logic in posting something that has been discussed a million times, for starters.

Modifié par Phaedon, 08 juin 2011 - 02:51 .


#53
spirosz

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My Shepard wouldn't of met Jack :(

#54
AlanC9

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Phaedon wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Personally, I'm a little sad that almost static, melancholic atmosphere the first game had going on is pretty much gone. Nowadays it just seems to be like "LOOK, COOL NEW ENEMY! BAM, SHEPARD DIES! WOAH, INSTANT RESURRECTION! YAY, GIANT SPACE EXPLOSIONS! CHECK THIS OUT, AWESOME LIGHTSABER KNOCK-OFF!"

Congratulations, you look like a jerk now, mister.

Stuff like this is just shallow and non-constructive cricism that only helps at you looking bad and elitist.

Posting "ME2 is like a Michael Bay now, c00l explozions, ASSSS EFFECT 2, PEW PEW PEW"

doesn't help your argument or make you look good, it does quite the opposite.
I am sure that we are all sick of this attitude people had back on the old boards, which lead in their very poor quality, so let's drop it please.


The only thing I'd add to this is that Kaiser needs to take a few lessons from Terror_K, who manages to post essentially the same argument except in a way that makes it seem credible.

#55
Ghost Warrior

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We needed it to further explore the universe and characters,have another great game to enjoy, and to prepare the stage for the last game.

#56
Chibi Elemental

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ME1 is the start, ME2 is the set up, and ME3 is the punch line :D there you go a good joke always needs a set up.

#57
RyuGuitarFreak

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Discuss ME2 in ME2 forums /thread

#58
Fidget6

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RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Discuss ME2 in ME2 forums /thread


If they put it there it would most likely be locked with a mod telling them to move it here....

#59
CaptainZaysh

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I think the two big problems were:

1). Invalidating the "kick them back into dark space" ending. Thinking about it I'm really not sure why the citadel races couldn't have been engaged in a frantic military buildup all through the game, and why nobody but Shepard seemed bothered about the Reapers.

2). Being a bit hazy on what the Collectors were actually doing. We know they were building a Reaper, but, to what end? A fleet of them is just about to arrive, so I'm still not sure what we actually accomplished.

I think the reason the ME2 plot feels dispensable to some people is that (1) makes us retread a lot of the "nobody believes Shepard about the Reapers" story and (2) makes us wonder what we actually accomplished against the Reaper threat.

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 08 juin 2011 - 06:40 .


#60
Deviana

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As many posters said before me, Mass Effect simply follows the basic rules of a trilogy:
Part 1 - introduces the conflict/threat
Part 2 - introduces emotional and socio-political engagement
Part 3 - provides conflict resolution (kill the bad guys, walk off into the sunset - that sort of thing)

Can you skip part 2? - sure. Should you? - Some people get more enjoyment out of the main conflict, others enjoy the story and all the small details. To each his own.

#61
Neverwinter_Knight77

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I felt like a lot of Mass Effect 2 was filler, but in truth, it sets up the preparations for full-scale war.  In a way, things like Tali's and Legion's loyalty missions felt more relevant to the war against the Reapers than the Collectors did, but they had to be stopped, and nobody else was willing to do it.  Also, the Normandy took quite a few levels in badass in ME 2.  The armor, shields, EDI... I imagine that these upgrades will help out in the next game.

#62
Sylvianus

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Why this thread is in M3 forums ? :)

#63
Murmillos

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ME2 is mostly boring fluff.. yes we learn a few things, but its nothing of value. Yea yea.. continue on how act 2 are always the red headed step children whom always get the short end of the story stick; but while ME2 tells us a lot, it tells us nothing we could care about. ME2 is 100% forgettable.

Learning that Reapers are partly organic still doesn't change the fact we need to stop the Reapers - or die. It may change the thought or theory on how we kill them - but a Reaper is a Reaper is a Reaper.

#64
CaptainZaysh

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Deviana wrote...

As many posters said before me, Mass Effect simply follows the basic rules of a trilogy:
Part 1 - introduces the conflict/threat
Part 2 - introduces emotional and socio-political engagement
Part 3 - provides conflict resolution (kill the bad guys, walk off into the sunset - that sort of thing)

Can you skip part 2? - sure. Should you? - Some people get more enjoyment out of the main conflict, others enjoy the story and all the small details. To each his own.


I think that's a bit of a cop-out, to be honest.  I'm no expert on how to structure a trilogy, but it occurs to me that emotion and socio-political engagement (whatever that actually means) shouldn't really be things you put in instead of a plot.

If we look at the traditional three act structure of a movie we see the following:
Act 1 - Introduction.  We meet the hero and see his or her normal life.  At the end of this act an event occurs which means the hero's life will never be the same again.
Act 2 - Rising Action.  The hero attempts to solve the problem established in Act 1, but fails because they do not yet have the skills or self awareness to defeat the enemy.
Act 3 - Climax.  The hero uses new skills and understanding to defeat the enemy.

It seems intuitive to me that you could apply this structure to a trilogy as well, right?

(Let's see.  Star Wars - Luke uses The Force to destroy the Death Star.
Empire - Luke fails to defeat Vader, because he is not yet a Jedi.
ROTJ - Luke is now a Jedi.  He frees Han and defeats both Vader and The Emperor.)

ME1 serves well as Act 1, then.  We see what normal galactic life is like.  And at the end everybody resolves to fight the Reapers somehow.  The galaxy will never be the same again.

Except...it kind of is!  I guess that (for me) ME2's story failed to deliver Rising Action.  Shepard wasn't trying to solve the problem established in Act 1.  He was trying to solve a completely different problem (the Collectors), and trying also to solve again the problem that was already solved in Act 1 (nobody believes in the Reapers).

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 08 juin 2011 - 10:46 .