449 réponses à ce sujet

[Walker White]

Gatt9 wrote...

Electronics and Decryption work just fine,  except now it's a minigame based upon your reflexes rather than your character's skills.

Uh no.  All Electronics and Decryption did was set a minimal bar on what you could do.  There was still a minigame. And if you were on the X-Box, a painful and and poorly designed minigame at that (the PC one was pretty good, though).  Those skills were nothing more than a point sink taking away from other abilities.  The only thing that made it acceptable is that they had associated combat abilities (Decryption=Sabotage, Electronics=Overload).

And that is the problem with non-combat skills in a cRPG.  They are shallow.  They are rarely more than a simple D&D 4.0 skill challenge (which I also hate).   Single roll success or failure.  This isn't like an NPC conversation in a pen-and-paper RPG where you can trade bluff and sense motive rolls back and forth to give a gameplay experience as rich as combat.

[noisecode]

LPPrince wrote...

So let me get this straight.

Some of you are sick of people having an opinion that differs to yours?

As far as myself is concerned,  Yeah thats pretty much the sum of it.  If more people thought like me there would be fewer problems with this sad little planet.  Of course thats just my opinion  

LPPrince wrote...


Complaining about complainers complaining is ridiculous.

I think you just fired your gun while it was still in the holster ....   ;);)    Stand by --- I'll get some medi-gel for your foot.

Modifié par noisecode, 09 juin 2011 - 03:34 .

[SalsaDMA]

Sometimes I think people refuse to see the posibilities, and isntead focus on failed implementations to try and argue with as if things never could be done the right way.

Regarding the electronic/decryption skills. Having them made choice of who to bring along actually matter. In ME2 they might as well had given me an option like in beat'em'ups illustrated with a big questionmark which just gave me random characters. Their effect were as noteworthy on the missions as if I had picked any other.
Also, having an ability to increase the skill should ofc give benefits as you increased the skill. Meaning as you put more and more points in it, it lowered the difficulty of attempted break-ins. A crude example using ME2 electronic minigame: the dificulty increased number of nodes and possibly reduced timed to link them. Increasing the electronics skill would reduce number of nodes needed and posisbly increase time to link them. See? Easy as pie to figure out how to link a skill to the actual implementation in a meaningfull way,yet for some reason it seems like people do not WANT to do so, but keep in their mentality of "anything that isn't a twitch based shooter without real choices is bad, mkay?"...

On another note, I'm wondering what's up with Bioware dropping the ball on what their entire brand is about (RPGs) and going for an entire different market... If it's EA calling the shots on this silly behaviour, why buy out a brand that is known for one thing and then force it into entire different venue of products? After all, the brand was successfull in its productline, which was presumably the reason for the buyout, so why burn the bridges that were the reason for the brand being interesting in the first place? It's not like EA was short on divisions that built action games, after all...

I'm not gonna go to a fancy resturant and expect a fastfood meal, and if I got that, I sure as hell wouldn't return to that resturant again. The fastfood eaters aren't going to the fancy resturant in the first place for a fastfood meal, cause they expect the fastfood meals to come from establishments that have that kind of food as their brand.

They're burning bridges at the moment, trying to reshape the Bioware brand from something which was a long series of successes in their respective brand into something that is just another ball in the tray ...

[Crackseed]

I don't see it as burning bridges at all since Mass Effect was always advertised as a shooter mated with an RPG, very much like System Shock 2, etc. The RPG elements were always alot lighter compared to a game like Fallout 1 or 2, or Arcanum. But their story and conversation system combined with the combat is what helped set it apart.

So I don't see how they're dropping the ball on their brand as much as evolving and making games that take different directions with the concept of an RPG. Not a bad thing in my book, especially given that they are bringing BACK some good RPG elements for ME3.

[In Exile]

SalsaDMA wrote...
Regarding the electronic/decryption skills. Having them made choice of who to bring along actually matter.

No, it didn't. Unless you thought the vendor trash and omigel loot had value. All these skills did was open a few random containers for + loot and minor + XP.

Easy as pie to figure out how to link a skill to the actual implementation in a meaningfull way,yet for some reason it seems like people do not WANT to do so, but keep in their mentality of "anything that isn't a twitch based shooter without real choices is bad, mkay?"...

That's not really the mentality.

On another note, I'm wondering what's up with Bioware dropping the ball on what their entire brand is about (RPGs) and going for an entire different market... If it's EA calling the shots on this silly behaviour, why buy out a brand that is known for one thing and then force it into entire different venue of products? After all, the brand was successfull in its productline, which was presumably the reason for the buyout, so why burn the bridges that were the reason for the brand being interesting in the first place? It's not like EA was short on divisions that built action games, after all...

Bioware stopped making 'traditional' RPGs almost a decade ago. Especially  in the way people keep saying they used to. Even from the first BG, Bioware always made more story-driven and more linear & structured games than their competitors. BG I and BGII were a dramatic counter to IWD I and IWD II. KoTOR and JE were cinematic games.

Look at KoTOR, Jade Empire and Mass Effect. Hell, look at the fact Bioware picked the D&D Forgotten realms setting instead of a good PnP system.

Bioware is about story first, customizable characters through dialogue and apperance but with fixed backgrounds (even DA:O had the origins).

They're burning bridges at the moment, trying to reshape the Bioware brand from something which was a long series of successes in their respective brand into something that is just another ball in the tray ...

Bioware was never the company you think it was. Just look at the games they made, prior to EA. Look at the fact that they heavily debated PC VO in DA:O after ME was released.

[RoninOmega]

Loving the customization system, hating the ammo powers, wish there were other powers in their place...  They really limit the amount of powers you can use, I mean, the ammo powers take up a lot of useful slots that you can use for other cool powers...   

Modifié par RoninOmega, 09 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[AlanC9]

Walker White wrote...
Uh no.  All Electronics and Decryption did was set a minimal bar on what you could do.  There was still a minigame. And if you were on the X-Box, a painful and and poorly designed minigame at that (the PC one was pretty good, though).  Those skills were nothing more than a point sink taking away from other abilities.  The only thing that made it acceptable is that they had associated combat abilities (Decryption=Sabotage, Electronics=Overload).

True, but note that you could bypass the mingame with omni-gel if you made the minimum skill requirement, so past the midgame you didn't need to play the minigame.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
Bioware stopped making 'traditional' RPGs almost a decade ago. Especially  in the way people keep saying they used to. Even from the first BG, Bioware always made more story-driven and more linear & structured games than their competitors. BG I and BGII were a dramatic counter to IWD I and IWD II. KoTOR and JE were cinematic games.

I'm not sure the distance between BG1 and IWD is all that great. BG2, yes, and every Bio game since. Which is why some folks say that Bio's been going downhill ever since BG1.

Which just proves that Bio didn't want to be that kind of company.

Look at KoTOR, Jade Empire and Mass Effect. Hell, look at the fact Bioware picked the D&D Forgotten realms setting instead of a good PnP system.

Well, there's something to be said for using the least common denominator of RPG systems.

[RunicDragons]

This...Is... Awesome!! 

Modifié par RunicDragons, 09 juin 2011 - 06:12 .

[tonnactus]

Malanek999 wrote...


Healing isnt a combat skill.A combat skill is something that did damage to enemies.


A combat skill is anything that effects combat. Stasis is a combat skill for instance. Healing is a combat skill because being reduced to 0 life, which only happens in combat, will kill you.

With this logic even persuation is a combat skill.Make some dock workers fear you and then you have to kill less people.Nonsense.

[tonnactus]

Ahglock wrote...

Oh one nitpick. I notice they are keeping biotics with having barriers as their default defense.(Liara screen). That is just dumb. Sorry if someone sells me a shield generator that I don't need to use my mojo with and works automatically why in gods name would I throw that away for my super mind powers instead. Everyone should just have shields, Biotics might have a barrier power to enhance their defense.

I agree with that. The steady barrier concept is as dumb as the ammo "powers" are.

[Roenik]

I like the presentation of weapons customizations. Getting a good look at the weapons.

[Radwar]

jamesp81 wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Midnight Reyn wrote...





Not sure if they've been capped yet....

Is that paragon/renegade points for the other characters? Is this gonna be a similar friendship/rivalry/approval system of Dragon Age? 

Who knows.  It might just be an oversight and they'll have the bar disappear in the release version. Or they might just show Shepard's bar at all times no matter who you have selected.

Or, it could be an influence type system.  For example, if you fail and, say, an important Asari world is lost, Liara might get pissed and just leave your team or something.

It probably works like it did in Dragon Age 2. In DA2 your friends loyalty bar would go up or down depending on the choices you made in quests or what responses you made when talking to them directly. For example, Fenris was a magic hater so if you supported magic users in any way (action or dialog), you would lose some of his loyalty. What effect this had ultimately would change the way he/she acts and talks to you (more agressive or more friendly), ultimately he could leave if your loyalty was too low. Your companion also got some bonuses when his loyalty was high or low enough like a spell or something having greater effect. I don't know if it will work like this in ME3, but after having done it in DA2, I would bet on it.

Modifié par Radwar, 10 juin 2011 - 03:22 .

[Sanunes]

I didn't have time to read all of the post, but it was mentioned on BioWareTV (or somewhere else) that the Renegade/Paragon bar that we see on our companions is a bug and its just Shepards bleeding through.

I don't mind the ammo power system, for the Solder class felt to be a simpler class that you just aim and shoot with. What I would like (and probably wouldn't happen now) is a hybrid system of the skill would increase damage Incendiary Ammo skill would do extra damage to armor and unarmored living targets, but the ammo loaded into the gun would set enemies on fire.

Modifié par Sanunes, 10 juin 2011 - 04:05 .

[Il Divo]

tonnactus wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...


Healing isnt a combat skill.A combat skill is something that did damage to enemies.


A combat skill is anything that effects combat. Stasis is a combat skill for instance. Healing is a combat skill because being reduced to 0 life, which only happens in combat, will kill you.

With this logic even persuation is a combat skill.Make some dock workers fear you and then you have to kill less people.Nonsense.

Keep trying. Healing is a combat skill. The only reason you will ever use medigel is for combat purposes. Persuasion has a good number of story applications (Ex: Wrex on Virmire) where combat is not a factor. Or it can actively let you avoid combat.

Whether you choose to heal in the middle of a fight or long after is irrelevant. The gameplay reason is only so that you can keep killing things, contrary to persuasion.

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 juin 2011 - 04:21 .

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm not sure the distance between BG1 and IWD is all that great. BG2, yes, and every Bio game since. Which is why some folks say that Bio's been going downhill ever since BG1.

Which just proves that Bio didn't want to be that kind of company.

Exactly. Some fans lament the loss of 'RPG mechanics' with Bioware's more recent releases. But looking back, what RPG systems did Bioware even create? Everything from KotOR and prior was copied from DnD. And everything from Jade Empire onward was fairly basic. The only exceptions to this is DA:O (to a lesser extent DA2's talent system). Ignoring Baldur's Gate 1, the only consistent element we really have in Bioware games are their emphasis on story, characters, and interactions.

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 juin 2011 - 04:32 .

[Someone With Mass]

Casey Hudson confirmed in the live Q&A that the Paragon/Renegade bars will only be available for Shepard. They simply didn't expect the demand of the stats and the customization in the demo, so they used a WIP.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Gatt9, I'm going to give you some advice friend - don't waste your time with Il Divo. He's just another Zulu DFA alternate/clone. Not even capable of a genuine discussion. Thats why I don't even engage him anymore.

-Polite

[Il Divo]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gatt9, I'm going to give you some advice friend - don't waste your time with Il Divo. He's just another Zulu DFA alternate/clone. Not even capable of a genuine discussion. Thats why I don't even engage him anymore.

-Polite

I'm surprised that you took the time out of your busy life to make a post about me. Shouldn't you be complaining right now that Bioware is responsible for world hunger or something? 

And Gatt rarely (if ever) responds more than once to a person, which is pretty central to a discussion.

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 juin 2011 - 04:52 .

[Vena_86]

This looks like a big improvement. I just hope things like weapon mods will be balanced properly so that everything has it's place instead of one obvious superior setup. Intrigued about the different parameters of each power and how they can be changed individually.
I also like the tastefull new menu design. Simple and elegant.
The only thing that is "meh" right now is the return of ammo "powers". Why? One would think that is an obvious category for weapon modding. It still makes no sense as a power.

Modifié par Vena_86, 10 juin 2011 - 05:13 .

[SalsaDMA]

Il Divo wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...


Healing isnt a combat skill.A combat skill is something that did damage to enemies.


A combat skill is anything that effects combat. Stasis is a combat skill for instance. Healing is a combat skill because being reduced to 0 life, which only happens in combat, will kill you.

With this logic even persuation is a combat skill.Make some dock workers fear you and then you have to kill less people.Nonsense.

Keep trying. Healing is a combat skill. The only reason you will ever use medigel is for combat purposes. Persuasion has a good number of story applications (Ex: Wrex on Virmire) where combat is not a factor. Or it can actively let you avoid combat.

Whether you choose to heal in the middle of a fight or long after is irrelevant. The gameplay reason is only so that you can keep killing things, contrary to persuasion.

Appearantly it is impossible to use medigel outside of combat scenes... Even though I can remember at least 2 scenes from ME2 where this takes, at the top of my head...

I guess the dialog wheel is a combat tool too?

[Il Divo]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Appearantly it is impossible to use medigel outside of combat scenes... Even though I can remember at least 2 scenes from ME2 where this takes, at the top of my head...

I guess the dialog wheel is a combat tool too?

Ah, misplaced sarcasm. It would help if you provided a greater explanation for the underlined. I'm glad you can remember those 2 scenes in Mass Effect 2. The issue is the role that the first aid/medic skill plays in Mass Effect 1, which is to say a combat-focused role.

Persuasion, on the other hand, has very clear narrative purposes, which is not relevant to combat. Persuasion, at points, is used so that Shepard does not have to engage in combat. This is not really the case for the healing skill as implemented in Mass Effect 1. Shepard needs to heal because he was previously wounded in gameplay. Shepard needs to heal because he will potentially be wounded in gameplay again. That is the main function filled by Mass Effect 1's healing skill: combat. If the game did not include combat, you would probably not take points in healing any more than you would take points in assault rifle.

Modifié par Il Divo, 11 juin 2011 - 12:08 .

[Darkstarr11]

Nice...absolutely looking forward to this.

[Yakko77]

Awesomely awesome! I can't wait to see what the engineer has!

[hangmans tree]

Any infiltrator screens?
I like the customization, the looks. Its fittingly appropriate XD