187 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Omega1995]

This is a very petty argument, personally I like the arrows. Not only does it seem more professional, but they also give you a clear idea of where you are going. I can see how this has made this mechanic simpler to use and more accessible. Those pop-ups to press the space bar are easily ignorable, in fact I forgot about that one near the end of ME2 that you noted Venn, and trust me I have had my fair share of ME2 run throughs. Sure maybe it would be nice to have those gone sometimes, but there's no sense in whining over these minor details...

Modifié par Lord_Omega1995, 08 juin 2011 - 07:17 .

[sp0ck 06]

I guess the OP also thinks things like GPS in cars is a bad idea because it insults his.her intelligence? Games are supposed to be fun. I'm having more fun when I can focus on the action, story, and scenery rather than looking for the hidden magic button.

[TexasToast712]

DoNotIngest wrote...

No red veins is great. Wonder what'll be there to replace them?

Last video I watched showed dark blood splatter on the screen when Shep took unshielded damage.

[Venn]

I don't see what you guys have against an option to turn it off.
The option is optional, you guys.

TexasToast712 wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

No red veins is great. Wonder what'll be there to replace them?

Last video I watched showed dark blood splatter on the screen

http://i54.tinypic.com/15vc7n.png

Modifié par Venn, 08 juin 2011 - 07:22 .

[Oblivious]

www.youtube.com/watch

[Massadonious1]

Elitism isn't optional, apparently.

[Kronner]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Elitism isn't optional, apparently.

How is this elitism? Increasing amount of hand-holding is pretty apparent in latest games. Anyone can see that. It's simply a fact. At least a toggle to turn off all the pop up crap would be most welcome.

[Massadonious1]

Yes, society has been dumbed down, and judging from the responses here they are completely unaware.

Playing video games and not needing tooltips makes you smart. You are also apparently a burden on society if you can't.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 08 juin 2011 - 07:26 .

[Venn]

Lucas_117 wrote...

I am a couple hours into the game, and I keep periodically seeing at least two different help messages. One says something like "Press RB to use special ammo" and the other says "Press RB to heal squad", or something like that.

I understand if this would happen during the tutorial level, but to have it keep coming up over and over and over again is not only an insult to my intelligence, but a completely unnecessary distraction! It really makes it seem like it's trying to cater to a slightly less-inept audience, but at the VERY least, there should be an option to disable said messages if they become annoying.

Someone, please tell me that these can be turned off. For reference, I am running Mass Effect 2 on my xbox 360.

This is what im talking about.

[shumworld]

The veins are gone? Man that and the elbow will be missed. Guess I'll go play ME2 again. ^__^

[bigSarg]

actually for the casual difficulty level the "handholding" is helpful for new players (such as myself), but on the higher difficulty levels it really shouldn't be there or at least it should be able to be turned off if a player does not want it.

[Clonedzero]

well obviously some people here are extremely opinionated, but most of what you complained about isnt "hand holding" its simply good game design.

the arrows that appear when you're in cover for the context sensitive movement. thats not hand holding, thats simpyl good design. im assuming the movement button is A as thats what it usually is. so holding A will probably make you spring, tapping it makes for combat roll, hitting it near cover puts you in cover, a direction while hitting A in cover will make you move inbetween cover.

the arrows are an indicator to make sure you're doing your preffered action. ive played many games and when theres a cover to cover mechanic without an indicator, theres CONSTANTLY that moment where you intend to move from one piece of cover to the next and you instead do a combat roll into the open and get shot up. the arrows are just there to show you what you're doing. not hand holding at all. i'd like them to stay in the game thank you.

NEXT UP!
the vegnetting when taking health damage. this has become a bit of an industry standard accross a wide range of games. the reason its become so common is because its such an effective tool to indicate that you're taking damage. obviously some of it is alittle over the top and annoying, but its an extremely effective tool to show you're taking damage without always looking at a tiny health bar. hand holding? absolutely not.

ill admit the viens effect in ME2 was over the top, just like the raspberry jam effect in call of duty games. but vegnetting and color sateration as a indicator of takign damage is a nice way to make it obvious you're taking damage to someone who might be too focused on trying to get a headshot or something not looking at their health bar. the more subtle the better personally.

the damage vegnetting i saw in one of the demos for ME3 looked fairly standard which is good. it was just a red vegnetting around the boarders that intensified the more hurt you are. thats perfectly fine. good game design not "hand holding".

glowing object of interest, well its rarely supposed to be a challenge to find said object of interest. in some games its extremely annoying for a trivial door switch or something to not be clearly indicated so you're running around in a room full of dectorative switches and computer displays looking for the actual interactive one.  if its supposed to be a puzzle then sure keep it hidden and such, but having objects be obvious which ones are interactive isnt hand holding, its simply "we're not going to waste your time making you check everythign in every room".

basically, you're complaining about UI issues that make it clear what you're actually doing in the game, its not hand holding its just presenting gameplay mechanics and other things in ways to make you know what is going on and what you're doing. in a game where you regenerate health, a subtle vegnetting and/or color saturation effect will ALWAYS be better than a health bar. moving from cover to cover, you want it clear where you're going to go when you hit the button, you dont want to mean to SWAT turn into the next piece of cover and do a combat roll into the open. you want to know that the third computer down is the one you need to hit so you dont sit there like an ass clicking every computer in the room.

way to be a nitpicky whiner rofl.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Not exactly related to the topic but I kind of agree even if it is a little nitpicky. For me ME2 was a little too easy even on Insanity.
I've heard Bioware is going to rebalance the difficulty settings.

I think it would be cool if the game was challenging on the higher settings. Nowadays games make it too easy for you and I don't always like that. For me a challenging game always adds to the satisfaction.

[I-AM-KROGAN]

Yeah the red veins are gone, and the cover thing is so you can chose where to duck an roll out of cover...duh.....

[Xeranx]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I will point out that for every message I have ever been sent saying "theer are too many tutorials" or pop ups or whatever, I have a lot more asking for help as they do not understand how things work.

Sure, smart people like YOU dear reader of this may not need them, but you'd be surprised how many people do.

So that means you won't put in an option to turn them off?

[Alraiis]

I am legally blind. I find it useful to have clear, unmissable indicators such as highlights for objects of interest, full-screen visual effects supplemented with audio cues to show that Shepard is wounded, etc. I play ME2 on Insanity, but there are plenty of games I can't play on their highest difficulties because the information they deliver is too reliant on visual acuity. Those games have their place, and I'm not saying every game should have big, flashy HUD elements and feedback, but, well, I have an obvious preference for those games that do.

When Shepard gets shot, I don't want the test to be "Did you notice that you got shot and can you find the cunningly-hidden enemies?" I want the test to be "How are you going to use your powers, your squad, and the terrain to take down these enemies?" That said, I recognize that both preferences are valid, and I don't begrudge you yours. What I DO object to is your notion that everyone who needs, or even prefers, having these display elements is stupid.

[Meshakhad2]

DoNotIngest wrote...

No red veins is great. Wonder what'll be there to replace them?

Nothing. You get no notice that Shepard is about to die.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

shumworld wrote...

The veins are gone? Man that and the elbow will be missed. Guess I'll go play ME2 again. ^__^

If they keep what looks like the veins replacement, I'd say it is an improvement in the right direction. Blood splatter and darkening around the edge of the screen > stupid bright red veins.

As others have pointed out, the arrows helpful in pointing out to some people which way they'll go if they keep pushing in the direction they are when in cover.

[Ultai]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I will point out that for every message I have ever been sent saying "theer are too many tutorials" or pop ups or whatever, I have a lot more asking for help as they do not understand how things work.

Sure, smart people like YOU dear reader of this may not need them, but you'd be surprised how many people do.

That's why he asked for a toggle.

[hangmans tree]

Ok, some say playing games should be fun. Great. At the same time you deny me the option of having fun. I do not find it enjoyable to see a tokyoish floating neon adverts with aaalll the horses and all of kings men to guide me through a straight ****ing corridor (ok, some crates in the way)!

I do not think of myself as elitist or smarter than average joe. But I see those things and I have an impression its to help those little kids that got ME as a present from their parents.

Arrows and cover. If space is a dash forward, in diagonal for cover and lets say shift is to swith to parallel one I dont see the need for said arrows. Are some ppl so short on leticine to forget how things work? Come on!

Its like finding a lever and a broken mechanism. Dont tell me you need all those glowing "arrows" to instruct you what to do?

GPS. It serves a porpouse irl.
In games - I find it irritating that when a quest pops up I have an instant marker where I can find said object within a 1cm radius error. With compass pulsing every other second of the game.

Its catering to a lowest common denominator. It is always bad. People in the industry should be rising the bar, making an effort, that creative/critical thinking is for. I guess we dont need that. You may, dear reader of this, find it comfortable to be spoon-fed through your eyes, gray cells dying of boredome. I dont.

[Massadonious1]

Yawn.

[Clonedzero]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Not exactly related to the topic but I kind of agree even if it is a little nitpicky. For me ME2 was a little too easy even on Insanity.
I've heard Bioware is going to rebalance the difficulty settings.

I think it would be cool if the game was challenging on the higher settings. Nowadays games make it too easy for you and I don't always like that. For me a challenging game always adds to the satisfaction.

but none of those things he brought up make the game easier in a real way, removing them would just make the game worse in a design sense.

difficulty shouldnt come from "crap i accidently rolled out of cover instead of moving over there like i meant to do" or "crap i died because i was trying to shoot that specific guy and didnt look at my tiny health bar" or anything like that. thats just poorly designed gameplay.

difficulty should come from actual things like "crap this encounter is rough and im dying alot because they're flanking me and i cant figure out how to handle that tactic" or "this enemy has really tricky AI and it makes it difficult to predict what he's going to do" or "this encounter is hard because theres enemy snipers accross the street and while avoiding being sniped i still gotta deal with guys rushing me with shotguns at the same time so i gotta develop a way to handle both short range and close range enemies at the same time"

he just wants a clunky game that barely presents your actions and a badly designed UI. which i find baffling.

[Clonedzero]

hangmans tree wrote...

Ok, some say playing games should be fun. Great. At the same time you deny me the option of having fun. I do not find it enjoyable to see a tokyoish floating neon adverts with aaalll the horses and all of kings men to guide me through a straight ****ing corridor (ok, some crates in the way)!

I do not think of myself as elitist or smarter than average joe. But I see those things and I have an impression its to help those little kids that got ME as a present from their parents.

Arrows and cover. If space is a dash forward, in diagonal for cover and lets say shift is to swith to parallel one I dont see the need for said arrows. Are some ppl so short on leticine to forget how things work? Come on!

Its like finding a lever and a broken mechanism. Dont tell me you need all those glowing "arrows" to instruct you what to do?

GPS. It serves a porpouse irl.
In games - I find it irritating that when a quest pops up I have an instant marker where I can find said object within a 1cm radius error. With compass pulsing every other second of the game.

Its catering to a lowest common denominator. It is always bad. People in the industry should be rising the bar, making an effort, that creative/critical thinking is for. I guess we dont need that. You may, dear reader of this, find it comfortable to be spoon-fed through your eyes, gray cells dying of boredome. I dont.

i dont think you understand what those arrows that appear when in cover mean.

they arent telling you "go this way" tahts not what they mean AT ALL. dont get mad at your own ignorance.

those arrows are indicators that "if i hold this direction and hit A ill do a quick turn and switch to the piece of cover over in that direction"

its completely context sensitive meaning that if the arrow is pointing ---> and you push the other direction with the stick the arrow will switch to <--- showing that if you hit the movement button thats where you'll move and stick to cover. thats the mechanic.

its not an arrow going "go this way!!!!!!!"

you're complaining about something that doesnt exist misunderstanding a cover to cover mechanic as a constant "go this way" mechanic.

i find that amusing since you kept saying how smart you were lol....

[hangmans tree]

Clonedzero wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

Ok, some say playing games should be fun. Great. At the same time you deny me the option of having fun. I do not find it enjoyable to see a tokyoish floating neon adverts with aaalll the horses and all of kings men to guide me through a straight ****ing corridor (ok, some crates in the way)!

I do not think of myself as elitist or smarter than average joe. But I see those things and I have an impression its to help those little kids that got ME as a present from their parents.

Arrows and cover. If space is a dash forward, in diagonal for cover and lets say shift is to swith to parallel one I dont see the need for said arrows. Are some ppl so short on leticine to forget how things work? Come on!

Its like finding a lever and a broken mechanism. Dont tell me you need all those glowing "arrows" to instruct you what to do?

GPS. It serves a porpouse irl.
In games - I find it irritating that when a quest pops up I have an instant marker where I can find said object within a 1cm radius error. With compass pulsing every other second of the game.

Its catering to a lowest common denominator. It is always bad. People in the industry should be rising the bar, making an effort, that creative/critical thinking is for. I guess we dont need that. You may, dear reader of this, find it comfortable to be spoon-fed through your eyes, gray cells dying of boredome. I dont.

i dont think you understand what those arrows that appear when in cover mean.

they arent telling you "go this way" tahts not what they mean AT ALL. dont get mad at your own ignorance.

those arrows are indicators that "if i hold this direction and hit A ill do a quick turn and switch to the piece of cover over in that direction"

its completely context sensitive meaning that if the arrow is pointing ---> and you push the other direction with the stick the arrow will switch to <--- showing that if you hit the movement button thats where you'll move and stick to cover. thats the mechanic.

its not an arrow going "go this way!!!!!!!"

you're complaining about something that doesnt exist misunderstanding a cover to cover mechanic as a constant "go this way" mechanic.

i find that amusing since you kept saying how smart you were lol....

I understand it perfecly fine thank you. You, on the other hand are missing my point entirely making assumptions of my ignorance.

[sp0ck 06]

hangmans tree wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

Ok, some say playing games should be fun. Great. At the same time you deny me the option of having fun. I do not find it enjoyable to see a tokyoish floating neon adverts with aaalll the horses and all of kings men to guide me through a straight ****ing corridor (ok, some crates in the way)!

I do not think of myself as elitist or smarter than average joe. But I see those things and I have an impression its to help those little kids that got ME as a present from their parents.

Arrows and cover. If space is a dash forward, in diagonal for cover and lets say shift is to swith to parallel one I dont see the need for said arrows. Are some ppl so short on leticine to forget how things work? Come on!

Its like finding a lever and a broken mechanism. Dont tell me you need all those glowing "arrows" to instruct you what to do?

GPS. It serves a porpouse irl.
In games - I find it irritating that when a quest pops up I have an instant marker where I can find said object within a 1cm radius error. With compass pulsing every other second of the game.

Its catering to a lowest common denominator. It is always bad. People in the industry should be rising the bar, making an effort, that creative/critical thinking is for. I guess we dont need that. You may, dear reader of this, find it comfortable to be spoon-fed through your eyes, gray cells dying of boredome. I dont.

i dont think you understand what those arrows that appear when in cover mean.

they arent telling you "go this way" tahts not what they mean AT ALL. dont get mad at your own ignorance.

those arrows are indicators that "if i hold this direction and hit A ill do a quick turn and switch to the piece of cover over in that direction"

its completely context sensitive meaning that if the arrow is pointing ---> and you push the other direction with the stick the arrow will switch to <--- showing that if you hit the movement button thats where you'll move and stick to cover. thats the mechanic.

its not an arrow going "go this way!!!!!!!"

you're complaining about something that doesnt exist misunderstanding a cover to cover mechanic as a constant "go this way" mechanic.

i find that amusing since you kept saying how smart you were lol....

I understand it perfecly fine thank you. You, on the other hand are missing my point entirely making assumptions of my ignorance.

No, you don't seem to be understanding it.  Why would you want a purposefully confusing and badly designed UI?  That doesn't make the game challenging, it makes it annoying.  Level design, AI, weapon balance, and encounter design make the game challenging.