171 réponses à ce sujet

[solmyr-fr]

 On Twitter :

truffle Christina Norman @ .@KennyShepard xp is still being worked on but it is not likely we will do xp per kill, Shepard's focus is his mission
truffle Christina Norman @ .@KennyShepard @CaseyDHudson Xp per kill makes sense in "grinder" RPGs, but mass effect is not a grinder

Well ... sad news (for me at least).

Some reason why I would like to see XP per kill :
- ME1 was not grinder (and there was Xp per kill)
- XP is a reward, it's like saying :" you played well", "you progressed" ... it's better to give a reward frequently rather than every mission (that could last more than 1 hour)
- A lot of players want to maximize XP to get more skills (so they could enjoy having an awesome Shepard who roxxx and kills plenty of bad cerberus agents ^^)
- If XP per kill -> use of ennemies waves in game design is reduced because it would cause infinite XP ! That's a good thing because waves are really annoying in video games ... remember how it is in DA2
- Maximizing XP make you explore entirely the whole map so you spend more time in the game and see a lot of small but interesting details (for exemple you try to learn more about squadmates, you see small zones in the map that are not necessary to the main quest)
- if no XP per kill : you consider that a player who spoke to everyone and that killed the maximum of ennemies got the same "reward" as a player that only did the minimum kills necessary to reach his objective on his minimap.

To keep it simple : XP per kill = constant and justified reward + exploration + munchkin

Feel free to agree (or disagree) and to add reasons why you would like to see XP per kill's return.
And I hope they'll change their mind... but 

EDIT : topic's name changed to be more general about XP rewards and the feeling it gives.

Modifié par solmyr-fr, 08 juin 2011 - 10:00 .

[baryonic member]

I want xp per kill, if only so that I can level up and add points to skills ingame, yes.

[Dean_the_Young]

"To keep it simple : XP per kill = constant and justified reward + exploration + munchkin"


There's a word for that: grinding

[An Irate Hobo]

Aw, I was hoping that feature would be in there, there is nothing more RPG than having numbers fly out of your enemy's.

[In Exile]

XP per quest or encounter is a much more traditional RPG mechanic. XP per kill is generally nonsensical, anyway, and encourages harvesting enemies for kills instead of focusing on objectives.

What I would really like is bonus XP for complete secondary objectives.

[SNascimento]

Exp per kill doesn't work with Mass Effect... I enjoyed ME2 much more without it.
.
Exp should be earned by completing missions and sub-missions.

[Omega-202]

It leads to metagaming and grinding, two things completely contradictory to the BioWare motto of "story first".

Taking away XP per kill was one of their best decisions for ME2. It made it so that there were other options to completing encounters. Vanguards could charge past groups of enemies. Infiltrators could stealth past certain parts. You didn't have to worry about enemies who got stuck in the geometry but weren't crucial to progressing.

Most importantly to me, it kept a sense of urgency to the game. In ME1, you'd wander the same corridor 10 times until you found every nook and cranny to make sure there wasn't a box to hack for extra XP or an extra enemy hiding somewhere. Would you realistically bother to do that if the ENTIRE GALAXY was in danger? NO! In ME2, you only had to worry about a few credit crates which weren't a big deal and were usually easy to find.

Having "mission only XP" also helps the pace of the game. The developers can set goals for what kind of level you should be at certain points in the game. I liked how in a "no DLC" run of ME2 you barely hit lvl 30 by doing everything available. It made the game feel complete. The story was over and so was Shepard's strength level. With all of the DLC, it felt weird hitting 30 after Haestrom with quite a few more missions to go.

[Mr.House]

I would prefer they do the XP gain like in DA2, after a fight your gathered XP is given to you, not like ME2.

[Clonedzero]

XP per kill doesnt promote good, immersive gameplay though because you go out of your way to kill every guy on each level that way.

in ME1 you'd go down both paths of a fork simply to get more XP, that makes no sense in context of a story.
you'd also get more XP if you jump out of the mako everytime theres an enemy. that makes no sense either.

XP for missions and objectives is much better because it also promotes different approaches to levels. "man this encounter is really rough with those big mechs, but maybe if i go this way i can avoid that fight"

it just allows for better design of gameplay. this isnt an MMO, i dont need constant reinforcement that im growing as a character

[solmyr-fr]

In Exile wrote...
What I would really like is bonus XP for complete secondary objectives.

Agree.

It'll be better if these secondary/optional objectives were frequent. 
I'm ready to accept the loss of "XP per kill" if they put a lot of XP with :
- codex discoveries (squad member, world, culture ...)
- optionnal quests

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...

XP per quest or encounter is a much more traditional RPG mechanic. XP per kill is generally nonsensical, anyway, and encourages harvesting enemies for kills instead of focusing on objectives.

What I would really like is bonus XP for complete secondary objectives.

Are you sure we don't get that? Per the Wiki ME2 assignments that don't happen on a mission do give XP even if they don't go to an MC screen at the end. I just sort of assumed that XP for sidequests during a mission was handed out at the end of the mission, but I have never tested it.

[Aimi]

The bonus XP for sidequests in ME2 is marginal; I think the rule is +50.

In other words, it's perfect!

[Ahglock]

Both systems have their hits and misses, in a linear game it doesn't make much of a difference.

[xiiz]

Yeah, much prefer to have No xp-per-kill. Metagaming and grinding isn't fun.

On the other hand, I also hope they get rid of that "Mission complete" screen, I'd prefer it to be more like ME1 in that regard where instead of being treated with a dull screen, you go back to your ship or something similar after a mission.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Sooo if they had XP/Kill in ME2... that would've royally messed with getting Kenson out without getting into proper combat.

I'd love for there to be more options for people to take a more stealthy/non combat route through some missions if they want and still get rewarded for doing so successfully, thus I indeed support the move ME2 made in removing the grindfest which was 'Kill everything on foot if you want to be the highest level'.

[TheCrakFox]

I didn't like having xp constantly popping up in ME1, the less intrusive pop-ups the better.

[konfeta]

XP per kill is a mechanic that should be left to games that make best use of it - roguelikes, hack'n'slash, etc.

In a game where progressing through story promotes the ability to perform non-combat solutions it makes no sense to actively punish the use of non-combat solutions.

[Bozorgmehr]

An Irate Hobo wrote...

Aw, I was hoping that feature would be in there, there is nothing more RPG than having numbers fly out of your enemy's.

Well, prefer sending my enemies flying instead of watching something fly out of em

[Fatex3]

I understand both points, XP per kill and post mission. It is my personal preference that XP be awarded after a combat round.

[Kabanya101]

XP per kill is SO nice, then I wouldn't have to wait till after the mission to level up, and I wouldn't have to go onto a planet to level everyone up by switching them in and out. And you don't get **** on for experience. In ME1, a simple side quest could level you up or give a nice chunk like almost a thousand. In ME2, doing a side quest nets you three maybe four hundred experience.

And morons, there are other ways to level up besides killing everything, such as opening containers, finding codex entries, so all you cry babies about "to be a high level you have to kill everything," not true, its the main way, but not the only way.

Plus there are NewGame+, so if you want to reach maximum level, simply play the same character again.

[Bozorgmehr]

Kabanya101 wrote...

XP per kill is SO nice, then I wouldn't have to wait till after the mission to level up, and I wouldn't have to go onto a planet to level everyone up by switching them in and out. And you don't get **** on for experience. In ME1, a simple side quest could level you up or give a nice chunk like almost a thousand. In ME2, doing a side quest nets you three maybe four hundred experience.

A thousand points in ME1 meant nothing if you need 50,000 points to gain a level. In ME2 you need 1000 XP to gain a level (regardless your current level) - side questing in ME2 is more rewarding than in ME1.

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
Are you sure we don't get that? Per the Wiki ME2 assignments that don't happen on a mission do give XP even if they don't go to an MC screen at the end. I just sort of assumed that XP for sidequests during a mission was handed out at the end of the mission, but I have never tested it.

Missions give fixed XP. Side quests give XP when you finish them.

What I was thinking, though, would be to have optional objectives in missions with bonus XP + story content for finishing them. A good example is Feros. You could help the colony; if you did, you might get extra XP at the end of the mission.

[Sidney]

Kabanya101 wrote...

XP per kill is SO nice, then I wouldn't have to wait till after the mission to level up,

Accepting that leveling up is a unrealistic mechanism the XP per mission and leveling up not in the middle of a fioght makes a lot more sense. At least I can imagine there was some "training" period or something that doesn't make my charatcre suddenly learn an unrelated skill because he shoots a Geth.

In the end, no one who gives you missions cares how many things you shoot to get it done - unless the mission involves shooting X things- they care if the mission is done. Why penalize someone who is diplomatic or stealthly or just doesn't shoot nameless, faceless bad buy #126453 for whatever reason but does finish the mission. If grinding for no reason is what you want go play WoW.

[In Exile]

Kabanya101 wrote...

XP per kill is SO nice, then I wouldn't have to wait till after the mission to level up, and I wouldn't have to go onto a planet to level everyone up by switching them in and out.

That's ****ty design, though. It's not related to what XP system you pick.

And you don't get **** on for experience. In ME1, a simple side quest could level you up or give a nice chunk like almost a thousand. In ME2, doing a side quest nets you three maybe four hundred experience.

Yeah, but ME1 had x2 the levels. It's all random numbers. ME3 could have levels going up 9999 with you leveling up after each kill. It's really all up to the designers, in terms of how they want to segment the power curve.

And morons, there are other ways to level up besides killing everything, such as opening containers, finding codex entries, so all you cry babies about "to be a high level you have to kill everything," not true, its the main way, but not the only way.

Ah, one of those. Yes, besides genocide, opening boxes is almost as fun.