171 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Sidney wrote...
The only leveling system that "makes sense" is a pure useage type scenario where using fire magic = more fire magic. Now as much as that makes sense I actually hate those systems and prefer thye XP method because it doesn't encourage such a mono-mania for a single skill/talent.

I'm not sure that's completely caused by the XP system. PnP games that are skill-based rather than level-based tend to have the same problem. In Champions, for instance, there's a big incentive to throw all your points into your character's primary attack and defense modes -- if you don't and some other player character does, your character will become less effective since the GM must scale his NPCs to the most potent PC. GURPS Magic has a similar syndrome -- other variants not so much because they don't tend to have as much combat.

Learn-by-doing systems fail worse on PCs than they do in PnP because they encourage repetitive and stupid behavior. You can't go around racking up skill points with repetitive useless activity in PnP because the GM just isn't gonna let you do it.

[solmyr-fr]

I've an idea (purely ironical of course ^^) . We already know that the game will have different features depending on the platform (for instance Kinect's voice control on 360 only). The best way to make most of the players happy is to put a classical XP system and more RPG stuff in the PC version only (because PC gamers who buy Bioware game love grinder RPG ^^ like BG, KOTOR, NWN ...) and to remove thoses features for the console version (console players will have fun with voice control and they do not like RPG when they're too technical and based on numbers ) and they'll envoy their action ME3. Everyone will be happy

Sorry for trolling (I warned this was ironical ^^).

[solmyr-fr]

UP. So... with the playable versions at several game conferences and the beta version leak. Can someone give details about how player gain XP ? Thanks.

[Gabey5]

nah.

lets keep it as is and not per kill

[Aumata]

Prefer XP per kill so that I don't have to deal with respawning enemies. That **** was annoying in ME2.

[solmyr-fr]

I doubt they will change the current system now at this stage of development... but what I would like to know is : what is the current system ^^. I find surprising that people are more concerned about a man in a window, Ashley's shoes or Vega's face than the level-up system that should be a core element in any RPG ... :/

Modifié par solmyr-fr, 05 novembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[The Spamming Troll]

i liked earning XP when i did something. whether it was killing a merc, hacking a node, or completeing the suicide mission. i never was one to try to take advantage of respawn points or whatever, i just played the game to play the game. i know if i received XP per 'doing something' id enjoy that alot more then earning a set amount per mission. i didnt like every reward in DA2 was 50,000 coin and 500 XP or whatever it was that i always eanred after completeing any objective.

[Varen Spectre]

One more vote for XP per kill system here. I love it. There are very few more satisfying feelings than defeating annoying enemy / boss and grabbing a lot of XP as a reward.

Besides, it would look sweet if such screen was more common. 



 

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:33 .

[ZenJestr]

I don't feel like reading 7 pages worth of posts, so I'll just voice my opinion.

I think instead of doing XP per Kill or XP per mission, they should do XP per "checkpoint". An example would be similar to how Lair of the Shadow Broker handled XP...

[SNascimento]

XP won't work anymore in a game like Mass Effect... killing enemys to gain xp just don't fit.

[suprhomre]

I love xp per kill it makes killing husk fun and rewarding at the same time. Boss killing massive boner time.

[Omega-202]

lightsnow13 wrote...


There really is nothing better than seeing all that experience and hearing the level up tune in any game and being able to spend points in improving your character. I'm excited for this actually.

By contrast, I'm absurdly disappointed.  Seeing a big shiny "LEVEL UP" is the shallowest of rewards.  Getting excited over it makes you no better than a lab rat trained to hit a lever to release a food pellet.  

All a "XP/Kill" system will give us is mandatory OCD in order to succeed in the game.  We'll all end up scouring every level for every last enemy, every last pick up, every last terminal and it will be just as tedious as ME1.  

In addition, just wait for all of the instances of Vanguard complaints for accidentally bypassing enemy spawn triggers with Charge.  "I don't bother Charging because I end up missing out on enemies and keep being underleveled by the endgame."  "Only n00bs Charge, you're gonna be gimped later cuz you missed so many bad guys".  Not to mention the complete irrelevance of the supposed stealth options they were adding to certain encounters.  Stealthing past an enemy is going to be objectively inferior because you're missing out on experience points that you need to remain competitive in the late game.  

So, sure, by all means go back to an antiquated system that gives us an "OOOO SHINY" instead of one where we actually have some choice in our playstyle.  

[solmyr-fr]

There are two schools of thought concerning XP per kill and there is no point insulting others because you disagree with them.

If you do not explore the whole map in ME2 you miss special weapons, extra credit and rare elements so you are underpowered by the endgame . And using cloak and stealth can make you miss some of those things as well ... or miss some dialog or story background if you only sprint to your current objective without exploring.

But it's useless to expose arguments too prove that XP per kill is a good thing or not. It's just a feature some people like and some other don't ... that's it. It's not inadapted to ME (it worked well in ME1 IMO). It's like a talent tree in a H&S (Diablo 3 has no talent tree and customisation execpt rune but will be fun anyway).

The only relevant thing now is to know what Bioware choose to do (and it's the reason why I ressurected this topic from the graveyard ^^). Since some players have tested a beta version at game conferences (or the leaked version), I hoped we can get more info but it seems we'll have to wait january and the demo.

[shepskisaac]

SNascimento wrote...

XP won't work anymore in a game like Mass Effect... killing enemys to gain xp just don't fit.

Urhm well, but it's gonna be in ME3.

[SNascimento]

IsaacShep wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

XP won't work anymore in a game like Mass Effect... killing enemys to gain xp just don't fit.

Urhm well, but it's gonna be in ME3.

.
Not from the demo... the only time Shepard gained xp after killing an enemy was after defeating an atlas mech. So, it's possible you will gain xp after defeating major enemys. And this is ok.

[Bogsnot1]

OK, I'll explain it once more for those who failed to understand it the first time.

Due to the way that spawn triggers work, XP per kill will penalise certain classes and playstyles.
A vanguard charging across the room will activate the "stop trigger 1, start trigger 2" script, while caster or immobile sniper will sit there and deal with the full wave of enemies created by spawn trigger 1, before moving forward and activating spawn trigger 2.

XP per mission/objective is a fairer system, as it does not promote or penalise any particular playstyle, class or action.
I hear you say "but they can go along and script around that". Excessive scripting leads to all sorts of bugs, glitches, and game lag. The simplest solutions are always the best ones to use, in this case, its XP per mission/objective.

[Varen Spectre]

Omega-202 wrote...

By contrast, I'm absurdly disappointed.  Seeing a big shiny "LEVEL UP" is the shallowest of rewards.  Getting excited over it makes you no better than a lab rat trained to hit a lever to release a food pellet.  

All a "XP/Kill" system will give us is mandatory OCD in order to succeed in the game.  We]'ll all end up scouring every level for every last enemy, every last pick up, every last terminal and it will be just as tedious as ME1.

Hmm, so on one hand you claim that players who are cheerful, when they receive XP points after killing enemies are like lab rats excited for food and on the other, you say that we (No, I can assure you that not "we" but "you") you would scour every last bit of level to get every last XP point? So, in other words, are you saying that you would behave like a lab rat yourself with such system? 

Well, do as you wish, but please do not make preliminary assumptions on behalf of other people.

I, and I am pretty sure that not only I, would not search the levels for every last XP. I love them and I find it rewarding when a game awards me for my work with them, but I surely would not resort to "grinding" just have better chance to win the next fight. Games should be fun after all - killing enemies is fun for me, gaining XP as reward is fun for me as well, grinding and scouring levels to get every last XP is not fun for me...

As for your "mandatory OCD in order to succeed in the game", please show me a game where a player has to gain all the XPs to have a chance to "suceed". Maybe some old school games, maybe some dungeon crawlers or something really weird, I don't know, but surely not majority of modern RPGs / RPG hybrids - I have beaten Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Witcher 2, Deus Ex, Deus Ex HR, Morrowind, Oblivion, all Fallouts, etc. without coming close to max levels easily during some of my playthroughs... And I wouldn't expect Mass Effect 3 to be any different in this regard. After all, it is not made for "lab rats" or people with OCD, but for much broader audience with various preferences.

So please, feel free to disagree with anyone here, but do it respectfuly and without assumptions that everyone perceives the games by your standards.

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:14 .

[solmyr-fr]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

OK, I'll explain it once more for those who failed to understand it the first time.

Due to the way that spawn triggers work, XP per kill will penalise certain classes and playstyles.
A vanguard charging across the room will activate the "stop trigger 1, start trigger 2" script, while caster or immobile sniper will sit there and deal with the full wave of enemies created by spawn trigger 1, before moving forward and activating spawn trigger 2.

XP per mission/objective is a fairer system, as it does not promote or penalise any particular playstyle, class or action.
I hear you say "but they can go along and script around that". Excessive scripting leads to all sorts of bugs, glitches, and game lag. The simplest solutions are always the best ones to use, in this case, its XP per mission/objective.

Your arguments of wave of ennemies seems right in apparence. But there was no waves in ME1 and the level design was good. There was wave with XP per kills in DA2 without disadvantage in leveling... My personal opinion is that waves of ennemies break the level design and the immersion because you see a lot of ennemies coming from a closed door or just appearing just in front of you. Unless you go to a specific place and "voilà", miracle... they don't come anymore. It's just my opinion but ... yes if you played DA2 and saw waves of ennemy... you can't like waves .

It's not about game balance : for instance infiltrator cloak help you take cover safely, snipe easily
one target so the purpose is not only stealth to go directly to your objective because your to weak to explore the map and find ennemies... it"s not true.

There are a lot of argument for both system and both work (with balanced class). So it is only a question of taste : some players find gaining XP killing ennemies is rewarding , other don't care... but it's not about game balance or fairness in level design according to class skills and weapons.

Varen Spectre wrote...

So please, feel free to disagree with anyone here,
but do it respectfuly and without assumptions that everyone perceives
the games by your standards.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Actually I want XP per kill and I agree with your coments Varen. Of course I want a game that can be finished easily without killing every ennemy in it. It's possible in ME1 for instance, you could miss some side quest not exploring planet with a lot of ennemies in them and still beat the game. Ités possible to like XP per kill and not be a "lab rat" .  But I respect those who do not like XP per kill for one simple reason : it's just a question of taste (even if ... they have a very bad taste ).

Modifié par solmyr-fr, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:45 .