183 réponses à ce sujet

[ItsFreakinJesus]

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

Easy, put back in the weapon abilities from Mass Effect 1.

I'd rather remove Cryo Ammo and put that back as a mod and replace it with Overkill that gives an AR 3 times the rate of fire for five seconds without burning through the ammo counter and bringing back Carnage.  Ammo powers are worthless in the face of those.

[Clonedzero]

also, its just a gameplay balancing issue.
if its reduced to being a weapon mod, its either a static thing that never gets better. or you get unnecessary samey ranked ammo mod upgrades like in ME1.

though if you really need a lore-based reason for things, then explain to me how cryo-ammo can flash freeze someone/something without killing them instantly. if you can do that then i'd be glad to hear it

[Eradyn]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Sure, why not. Unless one argues that the tech-user has instead focused their skills and knowledge into particular specialized fields, thus increasing their aptitude using particular technologies and thus - voila - tech "powers."

Ammo, however, is ammo.  You stick it in a gun and let it rip.  Not much personal aptitude or "magical rainbow farts" in that.

And omni-tool apps are just apps.  You press a button and it cryo blasts what you point it at.  Not much personal aptitude or "focused skills and knowledge" in that.

You guys seem to think I have a problem with this line of thought.  I find that highly amusing.

Sure, if it makes more sense for something to be mod/tech upgrade-oriented, I support that.  Frees slots up for more options for unique powers and skills.

[Malanek]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

Easy, put back in the weapon abilities from Mass Effect 1.

I'd rather remove Cryo Ammo and put that back as a mod and replace it with Overkill that gives an AR 3 times the rate of fire for five seconds without burning through the ammo counter and bringing back Carnage.  Ammo powers are worthless in the face of those.

I don't think individual weapon powers work all that well with a global cooldown. They also encourage you to use fewer weapons (because of the investment) which in turn promotes poor gameplay. They clash with adrenaline rush, concussive shot and the new grenade power. They don't really make anymore sense from a lore perspective than ammo either. Again all the ammo powers a soldier had in ME2 were very effective and definately not worthless.

[ronintoadin]

I agree with tech powers frees up space to give engineers some real abilities instead of apps.

[Clonedzero]

Montezuma IV wrote...

I agree, they are a waste. And the make the guns look ridiculous with the little bullet image sticking out on the side....ugh. Unchic.

i have no problem with ammo powers, but i agree i hate the stupid hologram stuck on the game when active.

[Flashlegend]

Malanek999 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

Easy, put back in the weapon abilities from Mass Effect 1.

I'd rather remove Cryo Ammo and put that back as a mod and replace it with Overkill that gives an AR 3 times the rate of fire for five seconds without burning through the ammo counter and bringing back Carnage.  Ammo powers are worthless in the face of those.

I don't think individual weapon powers work all that well with a global cooldown. They also encourage you to use fewer weapons (because of the investment) which in turn promotes poor gameplay. They clash with adrenaline rush, concussive shot and the new grenade power. They don't really make anymore sense from a lore perspective than ammo either. Again all the ammo powers a soldier had in ME2 were very effective and definately not worthless.

They could simply take certain powers off the GCD and give them their own individual cool down(it would be awesome to have carnage back). As for ammo powers being effective; I think most people realize that they were fairly effective in ME2 but simply want something more interesting than just ammo powers when they're doing ability customization. They could just be incorporated into the modding system so they wouldn't totally be gone. I think the squad based abilities a few people mentioned were also great ideas. I won't talk about lore since a lot of things have never made sense when it comes to lore.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 09 juin 2011 - 01:50 .

[Admoniter]

Eradyn wrote...
Sure, why not. Unless one argues that the tech-user has instead focused their skills and knowledge into particular specialized fields, thus increasing their aptitude using particular technologies and thus - voila - tech "powers."

Ammo, however, is ammo.  You stick it in a gun and let it rip.  Not much personal aptitude or "magical rainbow farts" in that.

Nevermind that before all classes were capable of using ammo mods. So aparently in their infinite wisdom Cerberus decided that such knowledge should be a reserved for combat classes only and even the combat hybrid classes only retained enough knowledge to know 1-2 of these "powers." While the caster classes came out of Lazerus as blithering amneisic morons.



Since soldier and combat classes in general focus on gunplay why not give the powers relating to that. So we already have concussive shot, AR, Fortification; that leaves three powers that they need. Hell they don't even have to be original so long as it fits the combativeness of said class. Why not just bring weapon talents back in some form, or give us some form of emp grenade that acts as an aoe anti shield/synthetic shot.

[zweistein_J]

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

+++++ 100% agree!

[DialupToaster]

I feel as if the soldier seems to be support seeing as he has to offensive powers and the rest ending with SUPPORT ammo powers that must be used one at a time. Worthless if used for yourself and nothing but a support power if used for your squad. Sorry about repeating the same thing.

[Malanek]

Flashlegend wrote...
They could simply take certain powers off the GCD and give them their own individual cool down(it would be awesome to have carnage back). As for ammo powers being effective; I think most people realize that they were fairly effective in ME2 but simply want something more interesting than just ammo powers when they're doing ability customization. They could just be incorporated into the modding system so they wouldn't totally be gone. I think the squad based abilities a few people mentioned were also great ideas. I won't talk about lore since a lot of things have never made sense when it comes to lore.

See I don't even think they are uninteresting. Being able to freeze your enemies and then shatter them with a single headshot was more interesting than adrenaline rush to me. Seeing enemies dance around on fire and having bullets explode in an aoe was cool. Same with stunning synthetics and jamming up weapons. To me, the ammo powers were the most interesting powers the soldier had, and that includes ME1.

[DialupToaster]

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

The soldier in Mass effect 1 was a damage dealing tank that could take a rocket to the face and still be smiling... I miss that and that is why I switched to vanguard.

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...

Ammo powers are ridiculous, from both a gameplay and a lore perspective. It's not like Shepard is imbuing ammo with the power of magical rainbow farts. It's a technology that just is. Instead of making ammo a power, it should be a tech upgrade option or a mod that you can purchase/earn/develop. Let's give soldiers, and all the rest, actual powers/skills/abilities and not waste the slot with ammo "powers."

Okay, let's. What abilties does a soldier get that don't violate lore/gameplay?

[In Exile]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Not that I'm against ammo powers, but since you asked for suggestions here are two ideas:

DIRECTED FIRE. Squad rapid fires at a targeted enemy for the duration of the effect. They fire more quickly and do more damage than normal.

SUPPRESSING FIRE. Squad fires at an enemy position. Enemies in cover behind the position keep their heads down for the duration of the effect.

Wait, so now the other classes are too stupid to direct fire or ask for supressing fire? The solution to "is everyone too stupid to just mod their own weapon if they're not a solider" is "everyone is too stupid to order their squadmates around if they're not a soldier"?

It's the same problem as before, you've just changed the abilities.

[Eradyn]

In Exile wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Ammo powers are ridiculous, from both a gameplay and a lore perspective. It's not like Shepard is imbuing ammo with the power of magical rainbow farts. It's a technology that just is. Instead of making ammo a power, it should be a tech upgrade option or a mod that you can purchase/earn/develop. Let's give soldiers, and all the rest, actual powers/skills/abilities and not waste the slot with ammo "powers."

Okay, let's. What abilties does a soldier get that don't violate lore/gameplay?

Try to read beyond my initial post.  There is a brewing discussion buried there, somewhere.  Why don't you participate? I'm sure if we put our heads together we can come up with some interesting ideas.

[Flashlegend]

Nyoka wrote...

Hey, another thread about ammo powers. I like them and that I feel identified with Shep being especially comfortable/effective with one particular type of ammo and less so with other types. I know it happens to hunters, for example. It's not that you don't know how to shoot with another type of ammo, instead you just feel less comfortable. It's kinda like when we add points to "pistols" or "sniper rifles" in ME1.

Pragmatically, I prefer not having to go around looking for upgrades for the ammo mod and having it as a power instead. I'm lazy like that.

If you want to go about the argument like this, then points in pistols and sniper rifles can represent experience gained through actual use of those weapons. No one in real life picks up a sniper rifle or even a normal pistol and has perfect aim but they can surely improve with practice. However with ammo, what exactly is being improved on? from the animation we see that our actual weapon is what is being changed. You still fire the gun in the exact same manner so how can you feeling less or more "comfortable" with ammo effect anything?

Modifié par Flashlegend, 09 juin 2011 - 02:01 .

[In Exile]

randomchasegurney wrote...
The soldier in Mass effect 1 was a damage dealing tank that could take a rocket to the face and still be smiling... I miss that and that is why I switched to vanguard.

Yeah, from immunity (man, was that thing ever broken). But I think Fortitude is ME3's answer to immunity, only slightly less "insta-win button".

[DialupToaster]

Malanek999 wrote...

Like what? I'm open minded. If someone can suggest enough passives that are more interesting than being able to freeze,fry or electrocute your enemies, that fit into the soldier class, I'll listen.

Mass effect 1 ability       (can't remember name) For a sort amount of time fire without using ammo but sacrificing accuracy (same way as in mass effect 1 you could fire longer without overheating)
Passive Increase damage and accuracy in all weapons.
Passive (going with soldier is a gunsmith idea) Increase the amount of ammo in a weapon (in the later levels a Widow can fire up to 3 rounds and have a higher max ammo.

Making abilities are FUN!


And finally air quote your enemies to death and dismiss their existance and any claims of their existance.

[Cosmar]

I always thought the ammo powers were really a modification to the gun itself, not the "ammo" and should rather have been called something else.

My only other idea besides the ammo "powers" would be to bring back ME1's abilities, but maybe make them more universal instead of just for one weapon.

Along that line of thought, I always wanted the tech powers sabotage and damping to make a return...they felt much more "techy" than incinerate and cryo blast, which felt more like "magic" than tech, tbh...

[Flashlegend]

Malanek999 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...
They could simply take certain powers off the GCD and give them their own individual cool down(it would be awesome to have carnage back). As for ammo powers being effective; I think most people realize that they were fairly effective in ME2 but simply want something more interesting than just ammo powers when they're doing ability customization. They could just be incorporated into the modding system so they wouldn't totally be gone. I think the squad based abilities a few people mentioned were also great ideas. I won't talk about lore since a lot of things have never made sense when it comes to lore.

See I don't even think they are uninteresting. Being able to freeze your enemies and then shatter them with a single headshot was more interesting than adrenaline rush to me. Seeing enemies dance around on fire and having bullets explode in an aoe was cool. Same with stunning synthetics and jamming up weapons. To me, the ammo powers were the most interesting powers the soldier had, and that includes ME1.

Once again, not saying ammo powers aren't interesting themselves; I'm saying that they arent very interesting as a progressive ability in a game where abilities are leveled up. And now that we have weapon moddiing, there is even less reason for them to be where they are. They could easily be added to the modding system(which is honestly where they belong) and made just as interesting if not more interesting than they were in ME2.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 09 juin 2011 - 02:18 .

[DialupToaster]

In Exile wrote...

randomchasegurney wrote...
The soldier in Mass effect 1 was a damage dealing tank that could take a rocket to the face and still be smiling... I miss that and that is why I switched to vanguard.

Yeah, from immunity (man, was that thing ever broken). But I think Fortitude is ME3's answer to immunity, only slightly less "insta-win button".

I bet a immunity spamming soldier could take a shot from the reaper cannon and laugh... We should use mass effect 1 soldiers a shields instead of kinetic barriers.