183 réponses à ce sujet

[DialupToaster]

Cosmar wrote...

I always thought the ammo powers were really a modification to the gun itself, not the "ammo" and should rather have been called something else.

My only other idea besides the ammo "powers" would be to bring back ME1's abilities, but maybe make them more universal instead of just for one weapon.

Along that line of thought, I always wanted the tech powers sabotage and damping to make a return...they felt much more "techy" than incinerate and cryo blast, which felt more like "magic" than tech, tbh...

I think carnage might possibly be able to fire from all weapons, it is technically just a giant chunk of moltan metal right? The guns fire bits of metal from a big block of it in the guns right?

[kregano]

Flashlegend wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...
They could simply take certain powers off the GCD and give them their own individual cool down(it would be awesome to have carnage back). As for ammo powers being effective; I think most people realize that they were fairly effective in ME2 but simply want something more interesting than just ammo powers when they're doing ability customization. They could just be incorporated into the modding system so they wouldn't totally be gone. I think the squad based abilities a few people mentioned were also great ideas. I won't talk about lore since a lot of things have never made sense when it comes to lore.

See I don't even think they are uninteresting. Being able to freeze your enemies and then shatter them with a single headshot was more interesting than adrenaline rush to me. Seeing enemies dance around on fire and having bullets explode in an aoe was cool. Same with stunning synthetics and jamming up weapons. To me, the ammo powers were the most interesting powers the soldier had, and that includes ME1.

Once again, not saying ammo powers aren't interesting themselves; I'm saying that they arent very interesting in a progressive game where abilities are leveled up. And now that we have weapon moddiing, there is even less reason for them to be where they are. They could easily be added to the modding system(which is honestly where they belong) and made just as interesting if not more interesting than they were in ME2.

The thing is that since you can only change mods from the workbenches, you'll have no way to change ammo types on the fly to deal with changing tactical situations, at least not without potentially having to build another interface just for ammo. It's more efficient to utilize the pre-existing power wheel in that case, although they could've called it something different like ammo specialization or something.

[Sidney]

Clonedzero wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

I agree, they are a waste. And the make the guns look ridiculous with the little bullet image sticking out on the side....ugh. Unchic.

i have no problem with ammo powers, but i agree i hate the stupid hologram stuck on the game when active.

Why? You hate knowing what power is active? I thought it was nicely effective to communicate what "active powers" were on.

[Sidney]

Ammo "powers" were silly. Then again based on the lore ammo types were silly too. Ammo types make sense when you fill rounds with say phosphorus but no sense in a world where a round is just a shaved bit o' metal. They goofed when they had ammo types to begin with so now any option they pick makes no sense.

[TheKillerAngel]

Clonedzero wrote...

also, its just a gameplay balancing issue.
if its reduced to being a weapon mod, its either a static thing that never gets better. or you get unnecessary samey ranked ammo mod upgrades like in ME1.

I had not thought of that, and it's very true. Good point.

though if you really need a lore-based reason for things, then explain to me how cryo-ammo can flash freeze someone/something without killing them instantly. if you can do that then i'd be glad to hear it

That too.

For active soldier abilities, I think the soldier could use his omni tool to create something like a riot shield that can block a certain amount of damage (this shield gets stronger as you level it). It can only be used with a pistol or SMG, but you can move with it, and use it as cover while stationary or moving. The shield could also be used to ram or smash enemies if you get close enough.

The shield would also make sense being an engineer ability, given how engineers are masters of the omni tool.

The soldier could also create a hologram that acts as a fighting mirror image to distract enemies. Might be more of an infiltrator ability, though, since that's tech.

The soldier could have a passive ability that increases the amount of ammunition carried, for both heavy and regular weapons. 

Some ideas. Go take a look at Paragon skills from Guild Wars to get an idea of stuff a soldier could do:

Passives that improve squad damage/health/etc.

Active abilities that mitigate damage for the squad or improve healing for all members (i.e. very rapid regeneration for a short period, -50% incoming damage for the squad for 10 seconds, basically "medic" type support abilities).

Active abilities that increase squad movement speed or damage for a brief period.

Here's an idea: 

"Allies in earshot gain 15/25/45/x Health per second and move 33% faster."

"Allies skills recharge 15/25/33/50% faster for x (increasing with level) seconds. There is a x% (increasing with level) chance they will instantly recharge as well."

"Allies in earshot take 20/30/40/x% less damage and gain x health per second."

"Allies deal x% more damage for x seconds."

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 09 juin 2011 - 02:39 .

[Schneidend]

Sidney wrote...

Ammo "powers" were silly. Then again based on the lore ammo types were silly too. Ammo types make sense when you fill rounds with say phosphorus but no sense in a world where a round is just a shaved bit o' metal. They goofed when they had ammo types to begin with so now any option they pick makes no sense.

Each ammo mod in ME1 explained what the mod was doing to your shaved bits, or that the mod itself was a special kind of block. It made perfect sense. Shepard being able to further modify his ammo mods as he grows in power also makes perfect sense. An Engineer improves the capabilities of his omni-tool as he levels up, and the Soldier tweaks his ammo mods because he's a gunsmith of sorts, knowing his weapons inside and out.

As for Fortitude, I too am hopeful that it is something like Fortification or Immunity, but hopefully a nice balance between Immunity's overpoweredness and Fortification's lackluster performance.

[Inutaisho7996]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Not that I'm against ammo powers, but since you asked for suggestions here are two ideas:

DIRECTED FIRE. Squad rapid fires at a targeted enemy for the duration of the effect. They fire more quickly and do more damage than normal.

SUPPRESSING FIRE. Squad fires at an enemy position. Enemies in cover behind the position keep their heads down for the duration of the effect.

That has the same problem as the ammo powers. "Why can't an Adept Shepard tell his/her squad to fire on the enemy he/she's firing at?! No matter what class Shepard is, he or she can still talk!"

[moneycashgeorge]

I absolutely agree that Ammo Powers are very stupid.

They should be an equippable item. IMO every class should be able to purchase and add Ammo Mods to their weapons. Having said that I think it would make sense if Soldiers were given the unique ability to equip multiple ammo mods and switch between them, and the ability to override the whole squad's ammo. No other class should have ammo related powers.

Also, anyone saying that there are no other options for Soldier powers has no creativity. Just using what we know about soldiers, I could list many potential options for unique abilities.

First, we know that soldiers can use different kinds of shots, like Concussive Shot, Carnage etc. Right there you could implement

1. Concussive Shot (modified by ammo type)
2. Carnage (modified by ammo type)
3. Tracking shot, can be fired from behind cover (modified by ammo type)

We also know that soldiers use chemicals to boost their performance, like the Adrenaline Rush. Using that you could implement... (maybe the drug names wouldn't work, I couldn't think of any other names)

1. Adrenaline Rush: Slows Time for a few seconds
2. Amphetamine Rush: Increases movement speed and melee damage for a few seconds
3. Morphine Rush: Decreases damage for a few seconds and replenishes health.

Also, how about a passive trait that increases the Soldier's accuracy, weapon damage, and reload speed, things the Soldiers should excel at?

There's also the squad abilites someone above mentioned like Squad Suppressing Fire to keep enemies in cover and Squad Focus Fire to quickly take down an enemy, which play to a soldiers ability to lead the team at weapon use.

There are TONS of things that could be great Soldier abilities, any one who says otherwise is simply wrong.

[JedTed]

Admoniter wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Sure, why not. Unless one argues that the tech-user has instead focused their skills and knowledge into particular specialized fields, thus increasing their aptitude using particular technologies and thus - voila - tech "powers."

Ammo, however, is ammo.  You stick it in a gun and let it rip.  Not much personal aptitude or "magical rainbow farts" in that.

Nevermind that before all classes were capable of using ammo mods. So aparently in their infinite wisdom Cerberus decided that such knowledge should be a reserved for combat classes only and even the combat hybrid classes only retained enough knowledge to know 1-2 of these "powers." While the caster classes came out of Lazerus as blithering amneisic morons.

QFE!

Why couldn't they have atleast given an ammo power to the caster classes?  Disruptor ammo for Engineers, Warp ammo for Adepts, and i geuss Armor-percing ammo for Sentinels.

Incinerate and Cyro blast never really made much sense for Engineers anyway so i have no problem replacing one of those two with an ammo power.

My main argument though is that specialized ammo should be situational, even if you know the mission will have a lot of synthetic/sheilded enemies you never know when you'll come up against a heavily armored target.  If i'm an Engineer and i want to have both Disruptor AND Incinderary ammo then i need to bring along Grunt/Jacob and Zaeed, that leaves me with zero biotic support.  I like to roll with a balanced squad, ie. 1 combat, 1 tech and 1 biotic.

[Sidney]

Schneidend wrote...

Each ammo mod in ME1 explained what the mod was doing to your shaved bits, or that the mod itself was a special kind of block. It made perfect sense.

No, it was explained. It still made no sense. I think the polonium where you actually put a radioactive block  o metal in made sense but beyond that not at all. The only reason that junk is in there is left over D&D feelings for fire and ice arrows. I'd rather see them all go away and have the solder have some actual powers.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

Remember Fitness/Immunity from ME1?

[Gatt9]

Sidney wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Each ammo mod in ME1 explained what the mod was doing to your shaved bits, or that the mod itself was a special kind of block. It made perfect sense.

No, it was explained. It still made no sense. I think the polonium where you actually put a radioactive block  o metal in made sense but beyond that not at all. The only reason that junk is in there is left over D&D feelings for fire and ice arrows. I'd rather see them all go away and have the solder have some actual powers.

Chemistry is your friend!  Potassium + Water = Fire,  Lithium + Water = Explosion,  IIRC NH4 plus something else can get pretty cold.

Then there's the premise of a round containing something like Napalm that's released on impact.  The US Military's been tooling around with a number of specialized rounds that do different things,  some that will even explode at a preset distance from origin.

The science behind this one isn't far fetched at all.

That said,  the whole concept's pretty stupid as far as them being "Powers" is concerned.  I'm pretty sure that if you figured out how to put one bullet in your gun,  you can put a different one in.  I just have a heckuva time sitting there thinking Tali is looking at a explosive round going "Now how do I fit this circular object into a round hole?".

[Schneidend]

Sidney wrote...
No, it was explained. It still made no sense. I think the polonium where you actually put a radioactive block  o metal in made sense but beyond that not at all. The only reason that junk is in there is left over D&D feelings for fire and ice arrows. I'd rather see them all go away and have the solder have some actual powers.

How does a radioactive block of metal corroding people into puddles of green sludge make more sense than using an ammo block composed partially of a thick, adhesive accelerant setting people on fire? Incendiary rounds came from blocks made of thermite paste. You know, thermite? One of the hottest burning substances known to man?

Soldiers have more active powers in their explosive device, and possibly Fortitude. Personally, I'm glad you're not designing the game, because I loved the way ammo powers were implemented in ME2. I like to shoot people with my shotguns and my Revenant. Powers like Adrenaline Rush and ammo abilities help me enhance my Soldier's combat prowess without hindering my chance to shoot and punch things to death.

[JeffZero]

Schneidend wrote...

Soldiers have more active powers in their explosive device, and possibly Fortitude. Personally, I'm glad you're not designing the game, because I loved the way ammo powers were implemented in ME2. I like to shoot people with my shotguns and my Revenant. Powers like Adrenaline Rush and ammo abilities help me enhance my Soldier's combat prowess without hindering my chance to shoot and punch things to death.

Damn straight.

[MrGone]

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

Oh man are you kidding?

Soldier abilities are easy as pie!

Passive skills (the boring ones) - More HP.
- Faster weapon draw speed, faster weapon switch speed, faster reload speed.
- Faster "Storm"/Dash speed
- Extended mags/heat management (larger clips)
-More Active Weapons available (this one's already in the game actually)

Active Skills
- Bolster Allies - Gives a temporary Buff to allies to survive a barrage of attacks or one big "wave" attack from a boss.
- Unique Squad Commands - Things that soldiers know how to do, like suppressing fire or alternating fire between squaddies.
Order a blitz on an enemy despite being shot at (a sort of "CHARGE!" move)
- Squad Formations - Form a triangle formation so no one's back is exposed when surrounded.
Form a straight line and rush the enemy so that the people in the back of the line are protected, with the soldier taking the brunt (allowing the team to move up under fire).
Form an arrowhead formation for Concentrated fire - for a temporary time, both allies are on either side of Shepard and where you aim, they aim, doing massive damage to targets - but it leaves you exposed.
-Tactical Explosives - To destroy cover locations, open up unique paths, or set as a remote mine to fall back and use as a trap.

ALL of those ideas could work well for a soldier class. They should be about being frontline fighters who know battlefield tactics for an offensive GROUP better than anyone. (Infiltrators,  and Vanguards are much more about Solo fighting,  Engineers are group oriented but defensive, Adepts are group oriented but combo based).

Ammo powers don't feel very special because there are a billion ways to make a soldier class interesting, as I've just pointed out.

[Scorpion1O1]

I think they should just titled it something differently. I see the "Cryo ammo power" for the character means they are knowledgable in ammunition crafting to develop ammo that freezes people. Since the soldier would most likely be well versed in ammunition craftsmanship they have the most "powers". Warp Ammo Power i would probably keep as titled "power". everything else i would probably call a "skill" like "Shredder Ammo development" skill.

Its just semantics "power" IN this context sounds like something magical. Not scientific. Or maybe i'm wrong and the Omni-tool is integrated into your weapon.

[Schneidend]

MrGone wrote...

Oh man are you kidding?

Soldier abilities are easy as pie!

Passive skills (the boring ones)
- More HP.
- Faster weapon draw speed, faster weapon switch speed, faster reload speed.
- Faster "Storm"/Dash speed
- Extended mags/heat management (larger clips)
-More Active Weapons available (this one's already in the game actually)

HP - Already in the game as the class passive.
Faster gunplay - Mods should cover these values.
Storm speed - class passive
Extended mags - mods
Bigger Loadout - Pointless. You only need one of each category as a Soldier.

Active Skills
- Bolster Allies - Gives a temporary Buff to allies to survive a barrage of attacks or one big "wave" attack from a boss.
- Unique Squad Commands - Things that soldiers know how to do, like suppressing fire or alternating fire between squaddies.
Order a blitz on an enemy despite being shot at (a sort of "CHARGE!" move)
- Squad Formations - Form a triangle formation so no one's back is exposed when surrounded.
Form a straight line and rush the enemy so that the people in the back of the line are protected, with the soldier taking the brunt (allowing the team to move up under fire).
Form an arrowhead formation for Concentrated fire - for a temporary time, both allies are on either side of Shepard and where you aim, they aim, doing massive damage to targets - but it leaves you exposed.
-Tactical Explosives - To destroy cover locations, open up unique paths, or set as a remote mine to fall back and use as a trap.

Bolster Allies - Perhaps if more allies were as good at killing enemies as Grunt, Zaeed, Thane, or Garrus. The rest are only there for their powers.
Commands/Formations - Most of your suggestions here should be regular controls, although the arrowhead formation ability would be intriguing.
Tactical Explosives - Garrus has a Proximity Mine and Shep has a Frag Grenade, which I'm guessing is actually the same power evolved in different ways.

ALL of those ideas could work well for a soldier class. They should be about being frontline fighters who know battlefield tactics for an offensive GROUP better than anyone. (Infiltrators,  and Vanguards are much more about Solo fighting,  Engineers are group oriented but defensive, Adepts are group oriented but combo based).

Ammo powers don't feel very special because there are a billion ways to make a soldier class interesting, as I've just pointed out.

Ammo powers allow me to change my damage to suit the needs of a situation on the fly. If I'm fighting shielded Cerberus guys, I'll probably use Disruptor or Cryo, but armored mechs might appear requiring some Incendiary love.

On the other hand, I'm not at all opposed to Carnage coming back. That was a fun power. It looks like they've vastly buffed Concussive Shot's base damage, so it may now be just like Carnage, and can probably be evolved into something like Carnage.

Modifié par Schneidend, 09 juin 2011 - 03:48 .

[TexasToast712]

I liked ammo powers. Quit your whining.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

AHEM, Immunity. I missed it in ME 2.

[TexasToast712]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

AHEM, Immunity. I missed it in ME 2.

NO! There was no fun being immune for a whole game.

[Schneidend]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

AHEM, Immunity. I missed it in ME 2.

Immunity was fun, but overpowered. Fortification is underpowered and also a bonus power. Hopefully, Fortitude will provide a nice medium between the two.

[Flashlegend]

TexasToast712 wrote...

I liked ammo powers. Quit your whining.

This is an absolutely brilliant argument. Hat off to you sir.