183 réponses à ce sujet

[JayhartRIC]

Admoniter wrote...

JayhartRIC wrote...

They apparently require some type of expertise to equip beyond simply pushing a button, just like a tech specialist doing cyro blast or releasing a drone. Just because it happens quickly in-game doesn't make it as simple as it looks, just like it isn't easy to hack an opposing synthetic.

Would it really take all that much expertise be equire all you doing is putting a different metal block in its slot instead of your regular ammo block? Rectangular thing goes in rectangular hole, I don't see how that could be that complicated unless you don't understand the concept of shapes.

But really whether it is difficult to change ammo blocks for ME weapons is irrelevent; fact is all classes even the caster classes were capable of swapping out ammo blocks in ME1. This made sense, every single Shepard was an N7 operative; I imagine their training at some point dealt with getting the most out of your weapons. This especially makes sense for caster classes because weapons wise they have the most limited selection so one would think that having modifiers would be a necessity. And suddenly everyone but the combat classes has no idea how to do this; even the combat classes seem to suffer partial retardation here as well seeing as they somehow know how to put one type of ammo block in their gun but can't seem to figure out how the other ones work... lol wut? Now maybe we're missing something here but I don't imagine the process of putting in disruptor rounds would be functionally different from putting incindiary rounds or any other ammo block for that matter into your weapon.

It can't be that simple or you wouldn't be able to give it to other people.  The weapons have been redone since ME1 so you can't really go off that.  Like I said before, you could just as easily say, how hard is it to hit the cyro blast button.  Better yet, why can an infiltrator hit the incinerate button, but not the cryo blast button?

Modifié par JayhartRIC, 11 juin 2011 - 11:47 .

[Bluefuse]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Overheated weapons sucked, i like thermal clips better since it feels more like a real shooter and not like you have a half thrashed weapon as a spectre.

That's why you replace the ammo clip. We should have a certain amount of shots depending on the weapon until we need to reload to replace the clip and we use that clip as the other one cools down. We shouldn't need to constantly pick up ammo clips... BioWare, get rid of enemies dropping and us picking up ammo. Let us have unlimited, but use this method of reloading the weapon.

[eye basher]

simple the fanatics didn't hate on it enough for it to be removed like ahsleys cat suit they'll just have to live wwith it.

[SNascimento]

Ammo powers are great. One of the things that made ME2 combat so amazing.

Modifié par SNascimento, 11 juin 2011 - 11:57 .

[Praetor Knight]

Well, I don't really care how ammo powers are handled in ME3. And I've played the Soldier class the most with the Sentinel and Vanguard following close behind in ME2.

So if the Soldier class has less powers than other classes and no ammo powers, I won't have any issues with that. I'll just run another class for a different type of play-through experience.

Especially with having so many weapon slots as it is, I actually think that there is a fair trade-off between weapons and active powers for Soldiers already in ME2. So if ammo powers are no longer tied to the class in ME3, I don't feel that those slots would have to be filled with something else anyway.

[Admoniter]

JayhartRIC wrote...
It can't be that simple or you wouldn't be able to give it to other people.

It's a block of metal that has different properties how hard can it be to swap it out with another one? How much difference would there bein swapping in incindiary rounds as opposed to shredder rounds.

  The weapons have been redone since ME1 so you can't really go off that.

Oh yes I can. Do you honestly think anybody would give up the versatility offered by ME1 weapons if favor of the staticness offered by ME2s weapons? I can understand wanting thermal clips and switching over to them. I cannot understand saying "You know what I don't like the ability to change my ammo on the fly, lets remove this feature from our guns."  As I have said before it makes sense for caster classes to use as many ammo mods as possible simply because they have the most limited selection and have to get the most bang for their buck.

Beyond that it's just a lame waste of a power for combat classes, what about actual powers; like what was available in ME1?

  Like I said before, you could just as easily say, how hard is it to
hit the cyro blast button.  Better yet, why can an infiltrator hit the
incinerate button, but not the cryo blast button?

There can be numerous explanations for it. There however is no explanation why all classes cannot use ammo mods.

The only decent thing that ammo powers have brought to the table is the ability to assign them a hot key everything else about the system is inferior.

[tjzsf]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

@TJ:

1. There is no aiming circle anymore.

2. Soldier class is about the variety of weapons. People who only like using sniper rifles should be playing as Infiltrators.

3. Swapping weapon damage buffs for CQC damage buffs obviously subtracts the weapon damage buffs.

4. Then you hit the problem of stacking this ability with specialised ammo would break the game. Only way around it is to not let Soldiers use special ammo.

Your suggestions are all game breakers. And:

5. I know how real armies work, mate, I was in one. We all cross-trained on everybody else's weapon systems so if the support gunner or marksman (or medic or signaller) got slotted someone else would be able to take over.

5.

1. So reintroduce one for that one power.
2. What of people who like sniping as many guys as they can until CQC starts?
3. No it doesn't. If you're going into melee, you're not shooting. If you're shooting, you're not going into melee. Use the different buffs for different situations. Neither is being subtracted.
4. No it wouldn't. Just tweak the percentages.
Not game-breakers any more than any buff of any kind is a game breaker
5. Good. Then let's say it has to do with the omnitool model or something. Either way, difference being it was explicitly established that special ammo is something everyone knows how to do, so everyone *should* be able to use them, whereas the same is not true of the tech powers.

Alternately, make special ammo available to everyone, give Incenerate/Cryo Blast to Soldiers instead of the ammo powers and say it's because they have a combat-model omnitool, and replace those abilities with Damping or Sabotage for the tech classes.

[chester013]

I'm all ears people, if you can suggest a complete list of all the abilities you would give a solider while still allowing me to change my ammo type on the fly (without pausing the game and going into a menu screen) to suit the situation then I'll entertain you.

All this "ammo powers suck, why are they still in the game?" and "we need to rage 24/7" bs is about as far removed from constructive criticism as you can get so nut up or shut up. Don't like it, don't play simple as that.

Modifié par chester013, 12 juin 2011 - 09:01 .

[tjzsf]

chester013 wrote...

I'm all ears people, if you can suggest a complete list of all the abilities you would give a solider while still allowing me to change my ammo type on the fly (without pausing the game and going into a menu screen) to suit the situation then I'll entertain you.

All this "ammo powers suck, why are they still in the game?" and "we need to rage 24/7" bs is about as far removed from constructive criticism as you can get so nut up or shut up. Don't like it, don't play simple as that.

1. "krogan rush." temporary +storm speed and melee damage.
2. "one-shot-one-kill" - gives you an aiming circle instead of a crosshair. everything inside the circle counts as a hit. more points = bigger circle
3. Carnage - free big damage shot that isn't blocked by certain types of defense like Concussive Shot
4. Crit-hit - temporary damage boost to guns.

Alternately, replace them with Incinerate and Cryo Blast, and replace those with Sabotage (temporary inability to fire for enemies) and Damping for tech classes.

Suggestions implementable and require little tweaking. Have these on top of ammo mods for your gun. Do not see why "let me change type without pausing" is an issue, as I generally had different ammo types on each gun in ME1 and used the Power Wheel to change them anyway in 2 (found this superior to hotkeys because I don't have to shift my hands).

[78stonewobble]

I kinda like the ammo powers and imho makes a bit of sense.

Ammo is sliced of a metal thingy in small amounts. Depending on the settings on your weapon. You can make your slugs:

Coated in supercooled whatever.
Coated in flammable material.
Bigger slug that is armor piercing or shape of projectile.
Change the cut shape of projectile to produce shredder.

[Kabanya101]

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

Have you ever played ME1? There are plenty of powers from ME1, and they could even make new ones. Imunity, shield boost, assasination, marksman. (Carnage is like CS) There are so many ideas and powers to give the soldier than just ammo powers.
Yeah, AR is like five powers in one, but you can still make others.

And I have posted probably dozens of times that ammo powers are not powers. They were just fillers to increase the class trees, that's all. They got rid of mods so they could do this, but now mods are back, ammo powers become useless.

[Someone With Mass]

Kabanya101 wrote...
And I have posted probably dozens of times that ammo powers are not powers. They were just fillers to increase the class trees, that's all. They got rid of mods so they could do this, but now mods are back, ammo powers become useless.

Or not, since none of the weapon mods will have effects on the ammo itself.

And incendiary ammo is good to stop regeneration. Disruptor ammo can disable mechs for a short while and so on. They're not useless. They're a good alternative to powers like Incinerate and Overload.

[The Spamming Troll]

i think people are lumping together ammo powers coolness with ammo powers integration into the game.

ithink ammo powers are great, it adds some depth to weaponplay, but i dont think they should be something a soldier is investing roughly half of their points into. its a weapons mod, its not something the charcter learns to use, you just push a button and it happens. its tough to make the soldier have more activated abilities, but ammo powers really arent something id call a power.

[78stonewobble]

All I know is that incendiary ammo IS bad ass... due to the simple fact that I catch myself mumbling "dance mofo'er DANCE" when they're trying to put out the flames.

And then I do it all over with a single bullet.... That can go on for quite a while actually.

Ah... good times...

[PsychoWARD23]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Let's say you cut ammo powers - what actual abilities do you give to a soldier? Magic bullets? To create tactical depth between classes, outside of weapon restrictions, you have to give the soldier something. Making weapon mods a talent and giving the solider all mods addresses that.

This guy just gave you the answer

Immunity, Adrenaline Burst, a better Concussive Shot, Shield Boost.

[tjzsf]

I think people are lconfusing the concept of how useful a ammo power is in terms of being a replacement for powers from other classes with the concept of whether it makes any sense for ammo to be a power.

Ammo is established to be a block of metal. Ammo upgrades are established to be slight upgrades to the block of metal to get it to do other stuff that the ammo manufacturers make. ME1 establishes that Ammo Upgrades are something everyone knows how to use. ME2 established that the cooling part of guns work differently, but that has nothing to do with the gun's ability to accept ammo.

Therefore, ammo mods being "powers" make no sense. The fact that burnination ammo is a workable substitute for Incinerate or Warp, or that Disruptor is a substitute for Overload, is irrelevant to that point.

What is relevant is that there are plenty of other powers that could have been given to Soldiers that could have replaced ammo powers, from the simple (Incinerate and Cryo-Blast on the justification that they have military-grade omnitools, and replace those powers with Damping [stops enemies from using powers] and Sabotage [stops enemies from shooting] for tech classes) to the more complex (alternate powers that I and others have been proposing).

[nitrog100]

Thermal clips work fine. I just wish that you could carry more of them. As for ammo powers, they make sense and make it easier to swap out ammo appropriate to the situation. It's better than rooting through your inventory for the Snowblind Rounds X or Tungsten Rounds VII

[Sierra Crysis]

I liked the ammo powers, and while I agree there could've probably been a better use of space in skills I can see why those powers might be restricted to a Soldier/Hybrid. The change in output/ammunition/coating could very well impact the weapon in a way that can't/hasn't been shown in series the same way shotguns feel very different when you use slugs instead of buckshot.

Be it the kick or weight of the weapon is different, to the fact that their guns arn't modded enough to beable to soundly use the ammunition without it backfiring or something on them; the fact of the matter is they just arn't savvy enough with it or comfortable enough to use the mods. The same could be said for the omni-tool tech skills, being able to press the button to incinerate someone is one thing, being able to encrypt/install/manage the energy output fluidly and effectively in the middle of a gunfight is something else entirely. For all the hate on ammo, I almost always chose the biotic ammunition for my vanguard/adept characters

Saying that somehow the characters have gotten more stupid from ME1/ME2 is ridiculous, as you can never tell how the recharging vs. thermal may have impacted the firearms entirely, and besides that... We all know how insidiously horrible Shepard was with every weapon at the beginning of mass effect 1. I refuse to believe that an elite N7 operative considered for Spectre status hasn't been qualified with every weapon enough to look through the scope/down the ironsights; AND then hold it steady better than a methamphetamine user with ADHD. Overall it's just game mechanics, and you're all reading into it WAY too much.

Out of interest though, Soldiers I believe would probably best be suited with more passive skills; but I can hardly see how that would be any more entertaining than weapon skills. They should have passives like.. Scoping: Offers a aim-assist when zooming ala COD, Higher levels would increase the grip range when aiming and offer faster fire speeds and less recoil for a brief period of time. Battle Hardening: % Damage Reduction and Movement Speed. Trenched: %Damage %Damage Reduction and Accuracy increases from cover. Other neat skills might be ammo related but not ammo mods like.... Ricochet: Gives Shepard the ability to bounce rounds around walls and cover, and would give the character a laser pointer that bent in different directions given the angle of the wall to show where they would go. Increases in this skill would give the player additional damage or more times able to bounce ect. ect. Another interesting skill could be like... Commandeer: Grab an enemy for cover. Has to be point blank and increases would give more longevity, damage, or life to your meat shield.

Sadly, I don't know if this grenades skill in ME3 is going in the right direction. People who are aggrivated about ammo skills should rightly be perturbed that only the soldier can suddenly use a grenade and it seems to be downgraded from the frisbies they used in ME1 (Except that it'll probably be more useful game-wise, as those grenades were terrible against everything but creepers with the gas.) I can see how though that only a soldier would be precise enough to lob a grenade perfectly behind cover for the most effective use of it.

Just my two cents.

[In Exile]

Gatt9 wrote...
As I said in a different thread,  the stupidity of it all often has me picturing Tali with an inferno round suddenly saying "OMG how can you people expect me to fit this round object in circular hole!  You're just insane!  It can't be done!"

The key to gameplay-lore segregation is that you have to enact it upon things sufficiently vague that the Player doesn't have enough of a real world comparison to associate it with ridiculous,  doing it with something commonly known just causes the player to say "WTF?".  Because the vast majority of the people here on this board would likely be able to figure out how to load any given round into a clip,  and the clip into a gun in a few minutes,  through experience.

That's like saying using a handgun, shotgun and sniper is effectively transferable as a skill because 'you press the trigger and aim'.

Usages can be very similar without being transferable. It all depends on the kind of BS you want to swallow. In reality, any kind of class power is silly, because most people can become somewhat competent at any skill with enough time and practice. Every single skill system that isn't learn by doing and doesn't have all skills open to all people is unrealistic.

[Dexi]

You say "what do we give to the soldier?"
There are only 3 powers to be made to replace the ammo ones.
We can easily draw inspiration from what powers our other soldier-class squadmates have.

So...

1. Marksman - boosts weapon capabilities ( damage, accuracy, increases fire rate and decreases heat build-up - means you can fire maybe like twice as many shots without changing the thermal clip) for a period of time. You might say that it becomes redundant with Adrenaline Rush who also increases damage and accuracy, but Adrenaline Rush would last a lot less than Marksman, plus Marksman has other benefits.

2. Fortification - like Grunts. Only maybe weaker. A lot weaker power-wise than Sentinel's Armor ( and no blow-up effect)

3. Adrenaline Burst - reduces the CDs of all powers by dunno 20% ( can be upgraded).



Or anything like that or any variations of those... You CAN give other things to the soldier, for BW it's just a matter of "do we want to?"

[tjzsf]

Do not know how much more I can hammer this into someone's head:
It is NOT a matter of "ammo powers make it easier to swap out ammo". You know how the iventory issues from ME1 could have been fixed? A sort function, like your Explorer window on your computer has, where you sort by name/data type/date created/etc, to make it easy to find your highest level ammo mods.
It IS a matter of tech suddenly not working like it's established to work, and other alternatives being easily implementable.
"Maybe the guns are different now" is an insufficient excuse. The burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate this is true, instead of simply faling back on "you don't know, maybe this is the case."
The Omni-tool Defense also doesn't work, as we can say there are some with different model omnitools that certain classes just aren't using, or that there are replacement powers for omnitool ones.

[Skirata129]

yeah, the ammo powers thing makes no sense. just give the soldiers a new ability and make ammo a weapon mod.

[Bullets McDeath]

Wow, I can't believe there are so many ready to defend ammo powers as a good idea. I mean, different strokes for different folks and all, but ammo "powers" are pretty much one of the dumbest things to ever happen. They don't make a lick of sense. I mean, how do you get BETTER at firing a certain kind of bullet? Why are certain classes physically incapable of using certain ammo types? It is lazy and uninspired and something I really hoped to say goodbye to. Oh, well.

[Daiyus]

Eradyn wrote...

 It's a technology that just is.

Then why can't everyone use the Tech Powers available to Engineers and Infiltrators. That Stealth shield is just a bit of technology that can be turned off and on. The Drone is just a piece of tech. The only powersthat could actually be attributed to a cgharacter themselves are biotics, as not everyone does have access to them. It requires certain things to be done in the womb (for humans at least).

You have to accept that sometimes gameplay comes before Lore. In this I'm happy that Soldiers at least get a variety of useful powers. All ammo types linked with all weapons is actually quite powerful if you know what you're doing. I used to dislike this move after playing ME1 before ME2 was released, but I got used to the concept and now I'm fine with it.