146 réponses à ce sujet

[LonewolfXIII]

Only frustrating thing I really found playing an adebt in the tougher difficulties was how usless my powers seemed to become when every enemy had the impervious armor which essentially made enemies immune to most (not all) space warping abilities. For instance a wide-multi target ability like shockwave was pretty useless in ME2 hardcore and vet setting. Are we going to see something similar in ME3 or has bioware been able to work the system to balance the ability to control the battlefield?

[The Spamming Troll]

no replies to this topic yet?????

i did see liara use some kind of biotic on a merc with only health and all he did was stagger a little bit, so im not sure how itll work in ME3. i sure hope im not evolving a power to do a half second stagger in ME3.

[In Exile]

Having biotic powers evolve to go past resistances might not be a bad idea, though. So the stagger is always the same, but max throw instead of lv 1 throw can do 100% dmg through armour resistance. If you make the ability low dmg overall, that could give you an incentive to play adepts (because soldiers might do lots of dmg, but biotics can kill through armour).

[Bluefuse]

I want biotic powers to mean something. If they don't change what they did in ME2, then I'm going to have to play as a Soldier/Vanguard/Infiltrator again. And I always play on the higher difficulties because I want a challenge. BUT don't limit my powers... That not only makes it harder, which is what I want, but it also takes away some of the gameplay experiences.

Modifié par Bluefuse, 09 juin 2011 - 03:07 .

[onelifecrisis]

Don't expect the game to be balanced at higher difficulties. That applies to any game, not just ME3. Games are balanced for Normal, period.

[LonewolfXIII]

It was because of this that in Me2 when the choices between wide hitting or narrow and powerful upgrades it was always the narrow and strong we the players went for. Chances were if you got say the multi pull ability and were to use it in hardcore/vet seting you would only be pulling one enemy anyway

[Bluefuse]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Don't expect the game to be balanced at higher difficulties. That applies to any game, not just ME3. Games are balanced for Normal, period.

Normal nowadays is the past's easy mode. I always played on insanity in ME2 because it was when each enemy mattered that made it realistic for me to make tactical decisions.

[Gravbh]

Biotics were gimped at higher dificulties in ME2? As a main adept who only plays insanity, that's news to me. Don't get me wrong, they can definitely improve on how biotics scale on insanity(I like the idea of evolving to bypass some resistances), but calling them gimped is a misnomer imo.

[SennenScale]

Preferred adept on insanity to soldier. More fun. But...would appreciate better scaling.

[Cowboy_christo]

Gravbh wrote...

Biotics were gimped at higher dificulties in ME2? As a main adept who only plays insanity, that's news to me. Don't get me wrong, they can definitely improve on how biotics scale on insanity(I like the idea of evolving to bypass some resistances), but calling them gimped is a misnomer imo.

Played a vanguard on insanity, our pull and shockwave were utterly useless. Not saying it was or wasnt hard but having 2 out of 3(not counting xtra skill) of our active ability made obsolete because of higher difficulty is a bad game design. Which is something i hope will be changed in ME3.

[Tigerman123]

I don't agree that biotics are unbalanced in ME2, on insanity at least, you just have to take advantage of your squaddies' abilities to strip defenses/create combos, which is the way it should be imo,. If you could throw/pull anyone adepts would require no skill to use, since you don't even have to aim.

[Schneidend]

Singularity?
Charge?

Biotics were clearly gimped on higher difficulties. No doubt about it.

[grumpymooselion]

Biotics functioned just like they did on lower difficulties on Insanity. They weren't gimped, and nothing was too hard. Heck insanity isn't hard at all, it's just more tedious. That goes for any difficulty setting though, I never felt more challenged, I ended up doing the same things, only it took longer.

That was the major issue for me, with Biotics on insanity, it came down to the same tactics, you just spent more time doing the same thing. Tedium. Not challenge. What do I have to do to get a difficulty setting that actually ups the challenge instead of making the same experience more tedious?

[Cowboy_christo]

Tigerman123 wrote...

I don't agree that biotics are unbalanced in ME2, on insanity at least, you just have to take advantage of your squaddies' abilities to strip defenses/create combos, which is the way it should be imo,. If you could throw/pull anyone adepts would require no skill to use, since you don't even have to aim.

Im sure a balance can be reached between being totally useless and being overpowered. Like i said, for vanguard pull and shockwave served no purpose whatsoever on insanity and vanguard was a 1trick pony, charge and blow **** up.

Im not agaisnt them having reduced effect, say pull could lower someone weight instead of making him float in the air and then when i charge i get a better knockback effect.

Modifié par Cowboy_christo, 09 juin 2011 - 03:39 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Tigerman123 wrote...

I don't agree that biotics are unbalanced in ME2, on insanity at least,  you just have to take advantage of your squaddies' abilities to strip defenses/create combos, which is the way it should be imo,.  If you could throw/pull anyone adepts would require no skill to use, since you don't even have to aim. 

you say biotics are balanced but "you have to use squadmates" to play an adept. that doesnt equal balance.

there does need to be limitations, thats obvious. 

Schneidend wrote...

Singularity?
Charge?

Biotics were clearly gimped on higher difficulties. No doubt about it.

come on man. your pointing out signature abilites.

in reference to gimping its something like armor/barrier/shields turning heavy throw into a half second stagger. and yes, i know reave and warp can be used on protections, but im not investing/evolving an ability to do a half second stagger, in the same way a soldiers not investing in weapons and using a BB gun.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 09 juin 2011 - 04:35 .

[Schneidend]

Staggers have saved my life in ME2 more times than I care to count. But, if you're trying to use Throw on a protected target all the time you're just beating your head against a wall for no reason. If you're not adapting to the gameplay changes brought on by the difficulty level, that's your bad, not the game's and not Bioware's.

Modifié par Schneidend, 09 juin 2011 - 04:36 .

[Hathur]

Gravbh wrote...

Biotics were gimped at higher dificulties in ME2? As a main adept who only plays insanity, that's news to me. Don't get me wrong, they can definitely improve on how biotics scale on insanity(I like the idea of evolving to bypass some resistances), but calling them gimped is a misnomer imo.

By gimped I think people mean that on insanity, biotics (save for warp & reave) were mostly useless (though singularity at least could stagger some enemies a bit) so long as an enemy had defenses... thereby forcing you to strip defenses to make any practical use of your biotics.

The argument is that by the time you've stripped defenses, you could just as quickly (perhaps faster) kill the target (their health) with gunfire rather than take the less efficient method of using a biotic power (or tech attack).

There wasn't too much incentive on insanity to pull or throw an enemy when in the same time it took you to hit that target with that power, you could have just as quick;y / easily killed them with a few shots instead.

The problem can be remedied either by making Biotics function vs enemies with defenses (but perhaps not as strong?) or to simply increase enemy health so as to make hitting an enemy with pull or throw more desireable once defenses are down than taking the lengthier time of firing at them to deplete their health pool.

That's not to say Biotics were useless on insanity... they weren't ... but they also weren't always the most.. efficient.. way to fight (though it's infinitely more fun to me to play an adept or engineer though.. even if it's not technically more efficient).

Modifié par Hathur, 09 juin 2011 - 04:41 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Schneidend wrote...

Staggers have saved my life in ME2
more times than I care to count. But, if you're trying to use Throw on a
protected target all the time you're just beating your head against a
wall for no reason. If you're not adapting to the gameplay changes
brought on by the difficulty level, that's your bad, not the game's and
not Bioware's.

it is biowares bad because its a horrible way in creating challenge. theres numerous methods one can use in order to make a game harder, but to take away the very essence of playing a certain class isnt one of those ways. im not saying its a terrible idea, but its implemented in a hodge podge way. im sure ME3 has t address ME2s difficulties and enemy protections. combat classes dont care about higher difficulties beause they have the means to deal with the "new features" of higher difficulties.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 09 juin 2011 - 04:39 .

[Cowboy_christo]

Schneidend wrote...

Staggers have saved my life in ME2 more times than I care to count. But, if you're trying to use Throw on a protected target all the time you're just beating your head against a wall for no reason. If you're not adapting to the gameplay changes brought on by the difficulty level, that's your bad, not the game's and not Bioware's.

You banged your head a few too many time yourself if your sticking with that analogy.

Point is ability like throw shockwave and pull are useless on insanity. So what if they didnt serve much in me2, me3 should seek to solve this problem. Like i said, its a bad design if you make abilities obsolete by upping the difficulty.

As vanguard there was nothing to adapt to, it was charge and that's it. I enjoyed playing as a vanguard but being a 1trickpony start to be boring pretty fast.

[Ahglock]

I think gimped is going to far. Sure I think Biotics especially the adept were at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the power sets/classes, but gimped implies a level of hosed that wasn't in the game. I would like things to be better balanced whether that is making things tougher on combat classes or easing restrictions on biotics or both. But Adepts needing to pick the right party members and use their powers effectively to compete with a guy who just runs amok with a gun isn't good design.

[Schneidend]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

it is biowares bad because its a horrible way in creating challenge. theres numerous methods one can use in order to make a game harder, but to take away the very essence of playing a certain class isnt one of those ways. im not saying its a terrible idea, but its implemented in a hodge podge way. im sure ME3 has t address ME2s difficulties and enemy protections. combat classes dont care about higher difficulties beause they have the means to deal with the "new features" of higher difficulties.

They made Insanity force you to play differently. It doesn't take away the essence of anything. The Adept is still the king of using biotics to kill people. Drop a warp bomb on top of a singularity in the middle of a crowd of mercs, and you can win an encounter in three moves. No other class has that kind of combo potential.

Combat classes very much do care about higher difficulties. Using an Avenger on an armored krogan boss as a Soldier would be as much of an inefficient decision as Adepts trying to use Throw to insta-kill enemies with protections.

Cowboy_christo wrote...

You banged your head a few too many time yourself if your sticking with that analogy.

Point is ability like throw shockwave and pull are useless on insanity. So what if they didnt serve much in me2, me3 should seek to solve this problem. Like i said, its a bad design if you make abilities obsolete by upping the difficulty.

As vanguard there was nothing to adapt to, it was charge and that's it. I enjoyed playing as a vanguard but being a 1trickpony start to be boring pretty fast.

Pull? You mean one of the key ingredients in any good Warp Bomb? Useless? No.

Vanguards had to adapt in how they Charge. Often, a Charge on Normal would simply hurl your target to his death. Fire and forget. On Insanity, Charging blindly is a recipe for a gibbing nine times out of ten. Optimal charging requires battlefield awareness. You could win by charging recklessly, but why not charge in such a way that dominates the fight? That's the difference between the average player and ThatAverageGatsby, the desire to actually find what works.

Modifié par Schneidend, 09 juin 2011 - 05:00 .

[lazuli]

LonewolfXIII wrote...

It was because of this that in Me2 when the choices between wide hitting or narrow and powerful upgrades it was always the narrow and strong we the players went for. Chances were if you got say the multi pull ability and were to use it in hardcore/vet seting you would only be pulling one enemy anyway

This doesn't reflect my experiences at all.  Maybe you chose the "narrow and strong" powers, but for many powers I found the wide evolutions more tempting.

Area Overload is great for catching grouped enemies, especially right at the start of a fight.  It deals enough damage to instantly remove the shields from a standard enemy.  Neither Overload evolution will instantly strip the shields from a more powerful foe, so why not go with area?

Incineration Blast is preferable to its alternative for much the same reasons as the Area Overload vs. Heavy Overload outlined above.

Unstable Warp is fantastic on squadmates, not only for the increased AoE, but also for the reduced recharge rate.

And Pull Field speaks for itself when compared to its alternative.

Granted, there are some powers for which it makes sense to take the "narrow and strong" evolution (like Charge and Singularity), but I wouldn't say they trump the area evolutions as a general rule or anything.

[dreman9999]

....Sigh....
It's not gimped, you have to build your passives first and invest in Singularity. You should be a nemesis or bastion by Horizon to fight effectively. This means your powers last longer, do more damage, and most importantly cooldown fast. Also, use the fast cooling down powers more!!!!Throw, pull, and singularity. Warp only when you can hit group with warp bomb or catch some one with a pull or singularity.

[onelifecrisis]

Bluefuse wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Don't expect the game to be balanced at higher difficulties. That applies to any game, not just ME3. Games are balanced for Normal, period.

Normal nowadays is the past's easy mode.

True. I'm not saying people should play on Normal, I'm just saying that's the difficulty they balance for.