146 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

....Sigh....
It's not gimped, you have to build your passives first and invest in Singularity. You should be a nemesis or bastion by Horizon to fight effectively. This means your powers last longer, do more damage, and most importantly cooldown fast. Also, use the fast cooling down powers more!!!!Throw, pull, and singularity. Warp only when you can hit group with warp bomb or catch some one with a pull or singularity.

Compared to the other classes its severely hampered though.

Protections prevent most Biotics from working (I do not count a half second stagger as an ability 'working'), the only abilities that work are Warp on Armour or Barriers and Singularity on most enemies, but not YMIR's or Fenris  (I'm sleep deprived atm, but I'm sure I missed a couple).

How do Protections hinder Engineers?  Same as Adept except that they can deal with Shields and Armour..

How do Protections hinder Sentinels?  They don't, the class is designed to deal with any protection.

How do Protections hinder Vangards?  Multicoloured Health Bar.

How do Protections hinder Soldiers?  Multicoloured Health Bar.

How do Protections hinder Infiltrators?  Multicoloured Health Bar.



Notice a pattern there at all?

Modifié par Dave666, 09 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[Oblivious]

Janan Pacha wrote...

Biotics functioned just like they did on lower difficulties on Insanity. They weren't gimped, and nothing was too hard. Heck insanity isn't hard at all, it's just more tedious. That goes for any difficulty setting though, I never felt more challenged, I ended up doing the same things, only it took longer.

That was the major issue for me, with Biotics on insanity, it came down to the same tactics, you just spent more time doing the same thing. Tedium. Not challenge. What do I have to do to get a difficulty setting that actually ups the challenge instead of making the same experience more tedious?

Most people (well hardcore gamers) feel like that but to truly up the challenge the designers have to improve AI significantly more to make it on par with a human player, which is simply not realistic. So they usually cop out and lower the player's abilities while giving the enemy impossibly high accuracy and strength. I remember way back in 04 playing Halo 2 on legendary I would always get sniped through my toe by a sniper rifle and would instantly die. How a single grunt can remove your shields with a single shot.

Simply put: don't expect an honest challenge from AI for a few more years dude. The closest I got was my first playthrough of squad tactic games like Star Wars Republic Commando, Full Spectrum Warrior, and Brothers in Arms when enemies flanked, used suppressing fire, and used grenades, but even after my first playthrough it became obvious where I could find holes to exploit the AI. I miss those games, games that challenged both your reflexes and your mind in real scenarios. Now rather than gaming smart most devs are trying to make games easier so that drunk fratboys will have fun<_<

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....Sigh....
It's not gimped, you have to build your passives first and invest in Singularity. You should be a nemesis or bastion by Horizon to fight effectively. This means your powers last longer, do more damage, and most importantly cooldown fast. Also, use the fast cooling down powers more!!!!Throw, pull, and singularity. Warp only when you can hit group with warp bomb or catch some one with a pull or singularity.

Compared to the other classes its severely hampered though.

Protections prevent most Biotics from working (I do not count a half second stagger as an ability 'working'), the only abilities that work are Warp on Armour or Barriers and Singularity on most enemies, but not YMIR's or Fenris  (I'm sleep deprived atm, but I'm sure I missed a couple).

How do Protections hinder Engineers?  Same as Adept except that they can deal with Shields and Armour..

How do Protections hinder Sentinels?  They don't, the class is designed to deal with any protection.

How do Protections hinder Vangards?  Multicoloured Health Bar.

How do Protections hinder Soldiers?  Multicoloured Health Bar.

How do Protections hinder Infiltrators?  Multicoloured Health Bar.



Notice a pattern there at all?

Simple, With solders you have to say out of cover more to attack on
insanity. Enemies with more shields are harder to kill,  and do more
damage to Shep and can quickly kill him.

AKA, I took out half that guys shield, he and the gr groups he's in took out my Shields and half my life.



Engineers has wonderful protection damage powers, but in contrast have terrible direct damage powers out side Cryo blast and inscineray blast only takes half health.



Infiltrators are based on indirect attack and is no were close to solders in attack powers. Infiltrators depend on head shots, tech powers, and ammo that debuff  to make quick kills.

 Vanguard need to put themselves at heavier risk than solders to
make kills. Shock wave has the slowest activation animation, use
charge wrong and your dead, and pull you need to take Shields off first
to use.

Sentinels are beast........



The thing with adept is that the class can keep attacking  while stunning enemies and continue
to attack without staying out of cover long. Singularity keep targets
in place till the power goes off or the targets Shields is gone. Throw
and pull stun targets long enough for the power to cooldown or the target to be attacked again. And Biotics are the fastest powers to like unshielded targets. Also, unshielded targets can be use to take out shielded targets

So in short, adept have no risk in attacking, can stun targets, can pin targets,can use unshielded targets to take out other target that are shielded, and can quickly kill unshielded targets.

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

Simple, With solders you have to say out of cover more to attack on
insanity

.

Adrenaline Rush and its reduced damage, time slowdown and weapon damage increase would like a word with you.

Enemies with more shields are harder to kill,  and do more
damage to Shep and can quickly kill him.

AKA, I took out half that guys shield, he and the gr groups he's in took out my Shields and half my life.

Adrenaline Rush asked me to tell you it says 'Hi' again.  With the sheer ammount of damage that guns deal, Shields are gone before they even know it and Soldiers have Ammo Powers for Crowd Control once said Shields are down.  They litterally act like an extended Health Bar that happens to be Blue instead of Red. If thats not enough we can always play a card from the 'you can use squad members to strip defences' deck.

Engineers has wonderful protection damage powers, but in contrast have terrible direct damage powers out side Cryo blast and inscineray blast only takes half health.

No arguments from me here, I feel much the same.  They only really struggle with Barriers.

Infiltrators are based on indirect attack and is no were close to solders in attack powers. Infiltrators depend on head shots, tech powers, and ammo that debuff  to make quick kills.

i.e. coloured Health Bar that you shoot at.

 
Vanguard need to put themselves at heavier risk than solders to
make kills. Shock wave has the slowest activation animation, use
charge wrong and your dead, and pull you need to take Shields off first
to use.

Having to put themselves at risk has more to do with enemies shooting at you than enemy protections which Vangards just shoot at. 

Sentinels are beast........



The thing with adept is that the class can keep attacking  while stunning enemies and continue
to attack without staying out of cover long. Singularity keep targets
in place till the power goes off or the targets Shields is gone. Throw
and pull stun targets long enough for the power to cooldown or the target to be attacked again. And Biotics are the fastest powers to like unshielded targets. Also, unshielded targets can be use to take out shielded targets

So in short, adept have no risk in attacking, can stun targets, can pin targets,can use unshielded targets to take out other target that are shielded, and can quickly kill unshielded targets.

That rather depends upon your playstyle, some play the Adept quite agressively indeed. Which, given the Adepts extremely low health and Barriers and complete lack of buff is extremely risky.  Its that 'stunning enemies' that I and I believe many others dislike.  Stunning an enemy with a Biotic ability that would otherwise lift them off of their feet, just feels pathetic and like the potential of the ability has been thrown out of the window.  As for chain stagering an enemy, that works fine...on one enemy.  Add a second or third that are shooting at you or moving to flank you, and you just can't do that.  Singularity has its own problems, that I cba to get into right now.

Modifié par Dave666, 09 juin 2011 - 07:27 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Schneidend wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

it is biowares bad because its a horrible way in creating challenge. theres numerous methods one can use in order to make a game harder, but to take away the very essence of playing a certain class isnt one of those ways. im not saying its a terrible idea, but its implemented in a hodge podge way. im sure ME3 has t address ME2s difficulties and enemy protections. combat classes dont care about higher difficulties beause they have the means to deal with the "new features" of higher difficulties.

They made Insanity force you to play differently. It doesn't take away the essence of anything. The Adept is still the king of using biotics to kill people. Drop a warp bomb on top of a singularity in the middle of a crowd of mercs, and you can win an encounter in three moves. No other class has that kind of combo potential.

Combat classes very much do care about higher difficulties. Using an Avenger on an armored krogan boss as a Soldier would be as much of an inefficient decision as Adepts trying to use Throw to insta-kill enemies with protections.

Cowboy_christo wrote...

You banged your head a few too many time yourself if your sticking with that analogy.

Point is ability like throw shockwave and pull are useless on insanity. So what if they didnt serve much in me2, me3 should seek to solve this problem. Like i said, its a bad design if you make abilities obsolete by upping the difficulty.

As vanguard there was nothing to adapt to, it was charge and that's it. I enjoyed playing as a vanguard but being a 1trickpony start to be boring pretty fast.

Pull? You mean one of the key ingredients in any good Warp Bomb? Useless? No.

Vanguards had to adapt in how they Charge. Often, a Charge on Normal would simply hurl your target to his death. Fire and forget. On Insanity, Charging blindly is a recipe for a gibbing nine times out of ten. Optimal charging requires battlefield awareness. You could win by charging recklessly, but why not charge in such a way that dominates the fight? That's the difference between the average player and ThatAverageGatsby, the desire to actually find what works.

insanity only forces the adept to play differently. im still playing every other class in the same exact way id play on normal, but not the adepts. i dont see how you can say it is balanced, and then add "the adept just needs to use its squadmates, or reassign an appropriate bonus ability, or make sure i have my bonus weapon if im getting serious about ding actual damage with a weapon.........its not balanced if one class needs a few things the rest dont.

pull is useless in a world of enemy protections. charging isnt any less effective on higher difficulties, CCing is.

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Simple, With solders you have to say out of cover more to attack on
insanity

.

Adrenaline Rush and its reduced damage, time slowdown and weapon damage increase would like a word with you.

Enemies with more shields are harder to kill,  and do more
damage to Shep and can quickly kill him.

AKA, I took out half that guys shield, he and the gr groups he's in took out my Shields and half my life.

Adrenaline Rush asked me to tell you it says 'Hi' again.  With the sheer ammount of damage that guns deal, Shields are gone before they even know it and Soldiers have Ammo Powers for Crowd Control once said Shields are down.  They litterally act like an extended Health Bar that happens to be Blue instead of Red. If thats not enough we can always play a card from the 'you can use squad members to strip defences' deck.

Engineers has wonderful protection damage powers, but in contrast have terrible direct damage powers out side Cryo blast and inscineray blast only takes half health.

No arguments from me here, I feel much the same.  They only really struggle with Barriers.

Infiltrators are based on indirect attack and is no were close to solders in attack powers. Infiltrators depend on head shots, tech powers, and ammo that debuff  to make quick kills.

i.e. coloured Health Bar that you shoot at.

 
Vanguard need to put themselves at heavier risk than solders to
make kills. Shock wave has the slowest activation animation, use
charge wrong and your dead, and pull you need to take Shields off first
to use.

Having to put themselves at risk has more to do with enemies shooting at you than enemy protections which Vangards just shoot at. 

Sentinels are beast........



The thing with adept is that the class can keep attacking  while stunning enemies and continue
to attack without staying out of cover long. Singularity keep targets
in place till the power goes off or the targets Shields is gone. Throw
and pull stun targets long enough for the power to cooldown or the target to be attacked again. And Biotics are the fastest powers to like unshielded targets. Also, unshielded targets can be use to take out shielded targets

So in short, adept have no risk in attacking, can stun targets, can pin targets,can use unshielded targets to take out other target that are shielded, and can quickly kill unshielded targets.

That rather depends upon your playstyle, some play the Adept quite agressively indeed. Which, given the Adepts extremely low health and Barriers and complete lack of buff is extremely risky.  Its that 'stunning enemies' that I and I believe many others dislike.  Stunning an enemy with a Biotic ability that would otherwise lift them off of their feet, just feels pathetic and like the potential of the ability has been thrown out of the window.  As for chain stagering an enemy, that works fine...on one enemy.  Add a second or third that are shooting at you or moving to flank you, and you just can't do that.  Singularity has its own problems, that I cba to get into right now.

1.AR doesn't stop me from getting hit. And I still have to focus on one guy at a time. You ether have damage protection AR with lower attack damage, or high damaging AR with lower protection.  So it take more damage but kill fast, mean I killed one guy but I lost half my health to do it or I almostkilled that guy but I only lost may shields.

2. With Vanguards, that is my point. And you have to learn how to quickly kill enemies.

3. Let's look at the infliltrators Ammo powers. You have Cryro ammo and Disuptor ammo. At their better level, level 3, Cryo has a higher chance of freezing targets, Disruptor ammo bypass shields faster and over heat guns.Both these ammo do one thing similer to one another, they stop the target from shooting back. Cryo ammo freezes a target, and Distoptur ammo stops them from shooting back for a while. These are indirect attacks. Incinerat blast can stun targets but it is not a power that can quckly kill a taget, finsh one off yes but never instantly kill anyone with out a flame thrower. That direct heath damege with guns ammo powers just stop the enemies from attacking back, you have nothing with guns that stun or stagger targets with shields on  like the solder does. Your powers are just to delay your shieled target from attack till your at heath, you ammo powers delay them even more.

4. That stunning eney thing balances the game. If it was like ME1, the adept class would be over powered. And the higher dificulty are to challage you.....How can you do that if you enemies are dead before arriving. A group comes in with no protection and all I would do is throwa singularity and warp bomb the group....No challage. So they make it work for a kill then letting you insta kill every one like you did on the lower settings, big deal. Learn t work with the system, learn to deal with the challage, and understand your powers. The fact remain thatthis is the harder settings and it's harder to use powers on hard settings. The only real theat to an adept is a Ymir/fenir mech or Geth prime. That was solved with Lotsb.
So again it's not gimped. That will inply you lost power. It just everyone is protected and they are many ways to get around the protection.

Modifié par dreman9999, 09 juin 2011 - 03:51 .

[Stardusk78]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Tigerman123 wrote...

I don't agree that biotics are unbalanced in ME2, on insanity at least,  you just have to take advantage of your squaddies' abilities to strip defenses/create combos, which is the way it should be imo,.  If you could throw/pull anyone adepts would require no skill to use, since you don't even have to aim. 

you say biotics are balanced but "you have to use squadmates" to play an adept. that doesnt equal balance.

there does need to be limitations, thats obvious. 

Schneidend wrote...

Singularity?
Charge?

Biotics were clearly gimped on higher difficulties. No doubt about it.

come on man. your pointing out signature abilites.

in reference to gimping its something like armor/barrier/shields turning heavy throw into a half second stagger. and yes, i know reave and warp can be used on protections, but im not investing/evolving an ability to do a half second stagger, in the same way a soldiers not investing in weapons and using a BB gun.

Your favourite topic, eh Spamming Troll?

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

it is biowares bad because its a horrible way in creating challenge. theres numerous methods one can use in order to make a game harder, but to take away the very essence of playing a certain class isnt one of those ways. im not saying its a terrible idea, but its implemented in a hodge podge way. im sure ME3 has t address ME2s difficulties and enemy protections. combat classes dont care about higher difficulties beause they have the means to deal with the "new features" of higher difficulties.

They made Insanity force you to play differently. It doesn't take away the essence of anything. The Adept is still the king of using biotics to kill people. Drop a warp bomb on top of a singularity in the middle of a crowd of mercs, and you can win an encounter in three moves. No other class has that kind of combo potential.

Combat classes very much do care about higher difficulties. Using an Avenger on an armored krogan boss as a Soldier would be as much of an inefficient decision as Adepts trying to use Throw to insta-kill enemies with protections.

Cowboy_christo wrote...

You banged your head a few too many time yourself if your sticking with that analogy.

Point is ability like throw shockwave and pull are useless on insanity. So what if they didnt serve much in me2, me3 should seek to solve this problem. Like i said, its a bad design if you make abilities obsolete by upping the difficulty.

As vanguard there was nothing to adapt to, it was charge and that's it. I enjoyed playing as a vanguard but being a 1trickpony start to be boring pretty fast.

Pull? You mean one of the key ingredients in any good Warp Bomb? Useless? No.

Vanguards had to adapt in how they Charge. Often, a Charge on Normal would simply hurl your target to his death. Fire and forget. On Insanity, Charging blindly is a recipe for a gibbing nine times out of ten. Optimal charging requires battlefield awareness. You could win by charging recklessly, but why not charge in such a way that dominates the fight? That's the difference between the average player and ThatAverageGatsby, the desire to actually find what works.

insanity only forces the adept to play differently. im still playing every other class in the same exact way id play on normal, but not the adepts. i dont see how you can say it is balanced, and then add "the adept just needs to use its squadmates, or reassign an appropriate bonus ability, or make sure i have my bonus weapon if im getting serious about ding actual damage with a weapon.........its not balanced if one class needs a few things the rest dont.

pull is useless in a world of enemy protections. charging isnt any less effective on higher difficulties, CCing is.

1. Throw and pull drains protection.
2.Throw and pull are spamable.
3. You can clearly shot your target protection off than use your powers are just us throw and pull till the protection fails.
4. Target the weakest enemy because they have the weakes shield. You can quickly use them as warp bombs to take out stronger targests.

In short, heavy throw may not floor a target but it staggers them and drian their shields. A normal enemy need 3 throws to take out their shields. Once done, pull the protectionless target, and use him to take off the other targets shield with a warp bomb.
What makes the Adept balace is that the class can hold back groups and damage and strip groups with one weaken enemy.

[Bozorgmehr]

Funny how ignorant some people are when it's about biotics. Anyone claiming biotics suck on Insanity have no knowledge whatsoever about how the ME2 combat mechanics works. If biotics suck on Insanity they're completely useless on Normal.

I hope BW isn't going to listen to those morons who don't know how to use biotics. It's simple really, if you can't handle something simple as protection, Insanity isn't your difficulty level. Go play on Normal please.

[dreman9999]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Funny how ignorant some people are when it's about biotics. Anyone claiming biotics suck on Insanity have no knowledge whatsoever about how the ME2 combat mechanics works. If biotics suck on Insanity they're completely useless on Normal.

I hope BW isn't going to listen to those morons who don't know how to use biotics. It's simple really, if you can't handle something simple as protection, Insanity isn't your difficulty level. Go play on Normal please.

Thanks, Bozotgmehr. Your links easilly shows how to play an adept.

[Wulfram]

I think Adepts start out pretty weak - their initial weapons aren't very good and the powers which work on protected targets both have pretty long cooldowns. This, together with the obvious low difficulty strategy no longer working makes starting out with a hardcore or insanity adept pretty daunting. But once you've got some good weapons, cut your cooldowns and worked out your strategy they're pretty awesome.

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 juin 2011 - 04:47 .

[Ahglock]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Funny how ignorant some people are when it's about biotics. Anyone claiming biotics suck on Insanity have no knowledge whatsoever about how the ME2 combat mechanics works. If biotics suck on Insanity they're completely useless on Normal.

I hope BW isn't going to listen to those morons who don't know how to use biotics. It's simple really, if you can't handle something simple as protection, Insanity isn't your difficulty level. Go play on Normal please.

Yes saying the suck is wrong, but that doesn't mean there aren't balance issues here.  It should be important for every class to pick the right squad mates and they should have to use the squad mates powers correctly in order to have a smooth run.  While it is not a big hurdle to jump, it is not right when only 1 or 2 classes have to jump that hurdle.  

[dreman9999]

Ahglock wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Funny how ignorant some people are when it's about biotics. Anyone claiming biotics suck on Insanity have no knowledge whatsoever about how the ME2 combat mechanics works. If biotics suck on Insanity they're completely useless on Normal.

I hope BW isn't going to listen to those morons who don't know how to use biotics. It's simple really, if you can't handle something simple as protection, Insanity isn't your difficulty level. Go play on Normal please.

Yes saying the suck is wrong, but that doesn't mean there aren't balance issues here.  It should be important for every class to pick the right squad mates and they should have to use the squad mates powers correctly in order to have a smooth run.  While it is not a big hurdle to jump, it is not right when only 1 or 2 classes have to jump that hurdle.  

Their is no balaning issue. If the taret is strong use singularity on it. If it's too strong, Stasis. And Adepts are not the only class that depends on squad mate on the higher difficulties. All classes do. You have a solder but you have a geth destroyer hounding you....You use Garrus overload. Too much consentrated fire on you?...Use Jack's shock wave on all of them.
And Adepts are not helpless, they have guns, too.

[dreman9999]

Wulfram wrote...

I think Adepts start out pretty weak - their initial weapons aren't very good and the powers which work on protected targets both have pretty long cooldowns. This, together with the obvious low difficulty strategy no longer working makes starting out with a hardcore or insanity adept pretty daunting. But once you've got some good weapons, cut your cooldowns and worked out your strategy they're pretty awesome.

Adepts  do start out weak but not as weak as they did in ME1. Adept main problem is the cooldown times, if warp had throws cooldown time.....People would say adepts are over powered. You just have to learn to use fast cooling down powers and build you passive first.

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Throw and pull drains protection.
2.Throw and pull are spamable.
3. You can clearly shot your target protection off than use your powers are just us throw and pull till the protection fails.
4. Target the weakest enemy because they have the weakes shield. You can quickly use them as warp bombs to take out stronger targests.

In short, heavy throw may not floor a target but it staggers them and drian their shields. A normal enemy need 3 throws to take out their shields. Once done, pull the protectionless target, and use him to take off the other targets shield with a warp bomb.
What makes the Adept balace is that the class can hold back groups and damage and strip groups with one weaken enemy.

your investing in an ability called throw and pull. im not investing in something called "poor mans warp." throw and pull should reduce enemies health regardless of protections AS WELL AS put that enemy on their ass. atleast that what i think when im using something called throw. throw drains maybe 1/10 of someones health, its nothing worth calling effective. but again, im not using an ability labeled throw to JUST remove a little bit of health.

im simply not content playing an adept and spamming pull to cause a half second stagger.

any class can do warp bombs. its not adept exclusive.

imagine if insanity weakened guns instead of powers. wed be seeing tons of complaints about soldiers being gimped, but it seems it doesnt work the other way around.

[Elvis_Mazur]

I always play in Hardcore, so I support a re-balance of the biotic powers.

[Medhia Nox]

Interesting - I couldn't bank my bullets around corners like I could my Biotic powers.

Tossing Singularity around a corner - then Warping some hiding Blue Suns merc through shields/armor/and then life was really easy. I played on Insanity and had very few problems.

When I got bored - I used my machine gun against shields - then the sniper rifle against armor - then a quick warp.

When characters were on a ledge - I'd throw in some push.

I took Jacob's Barrier - that was a lifesaver many times.

Singularity was great to hold any creature in place - and keep him from attacking.

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I think Adepts start out pretty weak - their initial weapons aren't very good and the powers which work on protected targets both have pretty long cooldowns. This, together with the obvious low difficulty strategy no longer working makes starting out with a hardcore or insanity adept pretty daunting. But once you've got some good weapons, cut your cooldowns and worked out your strategy they're pretty awesome.

Adepts  do start out weak but not as weak as they did in ME1. Adept main problem is the cooldown times, if warp had throws cooldown time.....People would say adepts are over powered. You just have to learn to use fast cooling down powers and build you passive first.

"lets make a game with a tons of abilities, then to make the game harder well take away all those abilities."

...thats insanity. and its insanely stupid.

[Fathom72]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Throw and pull drains protection.
2.Throw and pull are spamable.
3. You can clearly shot your target protection off than use your powers are just us throw and pull till the protection fails.
4. Target the weakest enemy because they have the weakes shield. You can quickly use them as warp bombs to take out stronger targests.

In short, heavy throw may not floor a target but it staggers them and drian their shields. A normal enemy need 3 throws to take out their shields. Once done, pull the protectionless target, and use him to take off the other targets shield with a warp bomb.
What makes the Adept balace is that the class can hold back groups and damage and strip groups with one weaken enemy.

your investing in an ability called throw and pull. im not investing in something called "poor mans warp." throw and pull should reduce enemies health regardless of protections AS WELL AS put that enemy on their ass. atleast that what i think when im using something called throw. throw drains maybe 1/10 of someones health, its nothing worth calling effective. but again, im not using an ability labeled throw to JUST remove a little bit of health.

im simply not content playing an adept and spamming pull to cause a half second stagger.

any class can do warp bombs. its not adept exclusive.

imagine if insanity weakened guns instead of powers. wed be seeing tons of complaints about soldiers being gimped, but it seems it doesnt work the other way around.

Throw and pull are the poor man's warp?  Really?

I honestly don't get why people say that shooting enemies after de-buffing them is preferable to using biotics.  First of all, you're not wasting ammo when you use your powers.  I'm not the sort to waste my time scouring the battlefield for heatsinks after an encounter, so this is a lifesaver for me.

Also, you really should be picking the wide versions of biotic powers.  Enemies tend to cluster together A LOT, especially when they first arrive on the battlefield.  Depending on your squaddies, you can thorw something like pull/throw field, knock out their defenses while its travelling to them, and boom.  Multiple enemies are de-comissioned for a moment, giving you breathing space.  In most of the game's scenarios, I've been able to get 60-80% of the enemy squad this way. 

Finally, no other class/squaddie (not counting Liara) can use singularity to stun/set up a warpsplosion.  Try it, then get back to me.  Its incredibly effective.

In short, don't try to fit square blocks into circular holes, then complain that your method isn't working.

[The Spamming Troll]

i was referencing the fact that throw ISNT a poor mans warp. throw shouldnt be delegated to a poor mans warp, just to give it an excuse to use on insanity. i shouldnt be looking to use throw to slightly remove some health. i should be using throw to throw someone. that makes sense doesnt it?

using singularity to setup warp bombs is such a minor detail to what playing an adept should be. yes i CAN setup my own warp bombs, but really so can any other class. every class has that privelage. its not like i can do a slightly weaker charge or slightly become cloaked.

i dont know why some of you people think we simply dont understand how to play ME with enemy protections. its not a difficult concept to grasp. more importantly its not actually the complaint thats being given.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 09 juin 2011 - 06:57 .

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Funny how ignorant some people are when it's about biotics. Anyone claiming biotics suck on Insanity have no knowledge whatsoever about how the ME2 combat mechanics works. If biotics suck on Insanity they're completely useless on Normal.

I hope BW isn't going to listen to those morons who don't know how to use biotics. It's simple really, if you can't handle something simple as protection, Insanity isn't your difficulty level. Go play on Normal please.

This.

Watch Boz's videos if you disagree

[Fathom72]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i was referencing the fact that throw ISNT a poor mans warp. throw shouldnt be delegated to a poor mans warp, just to give it an excuse to use on insanity. i shouldnt be looking to use throw to slightly remove some health. i should be using throw to throw someone. that makes sense doesnt it?

using singularity to setup warp bombs is such a minor detail to what playing an adept should be. yes i CAN setup my own warp bombs, but really so can any other class. every class has that privelage. its not like i can do a slightly weaker charge or slightly become cloaked.

i dont know why some of you people think we simply dont understand how to play ME with enemy protections. its not a difficult concept to grasp. more importantly its not actually the complaint thats being given.

What I'm saying is that, how it currently is, throw IS NOT a poor man's warp.  All warp can do is damage and staggering.  Throw can't be used to de-buff enemies, but its field evolution can knock de-buffed enemies out for much longer than Warp.  While the thrown people are down on their asses, you have significantly less enemies shooting at you, allowing you to focus on your immiediate threats.  Bear in mind, due to throw's low cool-down, you'll probably be able to use another power to help against those still standing.  Once those people are killed, you only have to worry about the folks who are getting up, who happen to already be de-buffed.

I actually find myself using warp less than my other biotic powers, simply because of its large cool-down.  If I'm cqc'ing, things like throw and pull are MUCH more forgiveable than warp's recharge rate.

As to your second point, I fail to see how this differs from the adept's situation.  Yes, an Engie can set up a warp bomb by pulling with Jacob/detonating with Miri after de-buffing the enemy.  In the adepts case, the roles are swapped around a bit; a squaddie de-buffs, then Shep pulls and squaddie detonates/squaddie pulling and shep detonating.  Hell, with Shep's cool-downs he could do both, freeing up another squaddie to use a power.

I also recognize that you can play the game just fine.  You have a different playstyle, is all.   However, when you insist that a different playstyle isn't viable, one that I play quite efficiently, I can't help but call you out.

Modifié par Fathom72, 09 juin 2011 - 07:23 .

[Fathom72]

Just to make my stance clear:

If bioware allows biotics to penetrate protection without any deterrent, I will not be playing as an adept in ME3. If this were to happen, the Adept would be incredibly powerful. In ME2, you had to play the class with careful intelligence, or you'd get slaughtered. An Adept's biotics unopposed are the exact opposite of that ideal. They are the epitome of safeness. We've seen this in ME1, which is the reason ME2 was designed the way it was.

Thankfully, from what I've seen of the gameplay, Bioware is sticking to the system, and aren't likely to change it.

---

I'm also surprised that no one has tried to compromise on this issue. As in, a system where biotics can go through protection, but with lesser potency than against unarmored enemies.

Just thought I'd suggest this. I'm uncertain how I'd feel about it, if Bioware were to implement it, but hey, fuel for discussion, right?

Modifié par Fathom72, 09 juin 2011 - 07:34 .

[Cowboy_christo]

Fathom72 wrote...

Just to make my stance clear:

If bioware allows biotics to penetrate protection without any deterrent, I will not be playing as an adept in ME3. If this were to happen, the Adept would be incredibly powerful. In ME2, you had to play the class with careful intelligence, or you'd get slaughtered. An Adept's biotics unopposed are the exact opposite of that ideal. They are the epitome of safeness. We've seen this in ME1, which is the reason ME2 was designed the way it was.

Thankfully, from what I've seen of the gameplay, Bioware is sticking to the system, and aren't likely to change it.

---

I'm also surprised that no one has tried to compromise on this issue. As in, a system where biotics can go through protection, but with lesser potency than against unarmored enemies.

Just thought I'd suggest this. I'm uncertain how I'd feel about it, if Bioware were to implement it, but hey, fuel for discussion, right?

Well admist the stupid posts in this thread you probably didnt read my post.

My stance on this is that skills, especially active one shouldnt be made obsolete by increasing the difficulty but should instead be required to perform correctly. Most ppl speak of the adept here but my stance is mostly on the vanguard. Pull is somewhat usefull for warp bomb but require a teammate with warp and imo it was just easier to shoot the guy or charge at somebody else then use pull and use a global cooldown instead of continously charging. And shockwave was totaly worthless.

As for Pull i gave the idea in my first post, that instead of completely lifting the enemy it just reduce is weight while he has protection on. Charging him would give a greater knockback effect(not as potent as someone w/o any protection or already pulled in the air)

This kind of feature is something i would like. Shockwave could be changed to work similarly but instead of directly charging, you use pull and shockwave which would be enough to knock him on his feet instead of having a pitifull half second stagger effect w/o sending him all the way trough the room.

This would also make the vanguard stop being a 1trickpony(yes i like that term and its exactly what vanguard is in ME2).

[Fathom72]

I actually did see your post, but i admit, I did skim it, lol. Sorry about that.

But yeah, that system doesn't sound half bad.

As for the Vanguard, I agree, Pull isn't quite as effective. When I play as a vanguard, I mainly use it if i have an opportunity to set up an explosion or pull someone over a chasm. However, since I mainly approach with Charge, its a bit harder to use it in cqc due to charge's re-charge. Usually, I charge in, tag a few folks with my shotty (with cryo ammo, so they'll be incapacitated after getting hit), then continue the charge dance/run to cover if I have no other options.

I can also say that I never use shockwave as a Vanguard, lol.  Takes too long to start-up, mainly; I feel as if it interrupts my flow.  Its SO much better with Jack than any version of Shep, since she can get it off easier.

Modifié par Fathom72, 09 juin 2011 - 07:56 .