146 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

ramnozack wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

@ Dreman: Biotics in ME1 really worked like that? I thought they were full potency, regardless of enemy shielding. I certainly remember being able to throw out singularity (god, can't believe how huge it used to be), and then being able to have my way with my enemies.

I think I'll have to boot up ME1 to refresh my memory.

Also, TSP. You're dead wrong about Adepts not having multiple playstyles. But, I don't think I can convince you of that.

I'll just be over in my corner, having fun with my shotgun adept build. Dunno how you play, but I can almost guarantee you'll have a tough ass time playing through the game on insanity with a shotty adept if you restrict yourself to warp and singularity.

I have the feeling you didn't choose Shotgun, tho, if you feel De-buffed enemies aren't a threat.

In ME 1 you used lift,throw ...what ever and the target gets knocked down or lifted for a while.... The power do no direct damage, it just lets you do direct damage with nothing shooting back.  You do more shoot ing in ME1 as an Adept then ME2.

Yeah, thats what I thought it was.  Don't get me wrong, I'm COMPLETELY against things like throw doing damage to health upon hit.  I actually prefer a system like ME2's, but if Bioware did cave to demands, I think a system where throw

Upon thinking about it, a hybrid system wouldn't really be al that great.  Even if things like pull field don't lift up much/don't last as long, you've successfully controlled a crowd of enemies with defenses up.  Thinking about it even farther, my vision isn't that different from the current system in that enemies might get stunned for like half a second.

So, yeah.  You can count me as a firm supporter of exporting ME2's system of de-buffing/biotics to ME3

Throw,Shockwave things like those SHOULD do damage 1200 newtons = 270 pounds. your telling me that if i threw 270 pounds at your head ( or anywhere on your body for that matter) at high speeds it wouldn't even hurt you?
and for some people in this thread that say lore doesn't define a games gameplay....if that were true we'd be shooting magical lightning bolts and fireballs out of our hands in ME. Anyway it also does not make sense for shields which are built to block projectiles and armor to stop biotics completely shields should do nothings armor should just make them hurt more due to being heavier and hitting the ground harder =/

You do understand the biotic fileds are fields. Mean it's not a harden object. It's like wind, at high speeds it can hurt you but you behind something it can't do any thing.

[Fathom72]

ramnozack wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

@ Dreman: Biotics in ME1 really worked like that? I thought they were full potency, regardless of enemy shielding. I certainly remember being able to throw out singularity (god, can't believe how huge it used to be), and then being able to have my way with my enemies.

I think I'll have to boot up ME1 to refresh my memory.

Also, TSP. You're dead wrong about Adepts not having multiple playstyles. But, I don't think I can convince you of that.

I'll just be over in my corner, having fun with my shotgun adept build. Dunno how you play, but I can almost guarantee you'll have a tough ass time playing through the game on insanity with a shotty adept if you restrict yourself to warp and singularity.

I have the feeling you didn't choose Shotgun, tho, if you feel De-buffed enemies aren't a threat.

In ME 1 you used lift,throw ...what ever and the target gets knocked down or lifted for a while.... The power do no direct damage, it just lets you do direct damage with nothing shooting back.  You do more shoot ing in ME1 as an Adept then ME2.

Yeah, thats what I thought it was.  Don't get me wrong, I'm COMPLETELY against things like throw doing damage to health upon hit.  I actually prefer a system like ME2's, but if Bioware did cave to demands, I think a system where throw

Upon thinking about it, a hybrid system wouldn't really be al that great.  Even if things like pull field don't lift up much/don't last as long, you've successfully controlled a crowd of enemies with defenses up.  Thinking about it even farther, my vision isn't that different from the current system in that enemies might get stunned for like half a second.

So, yeah.  You can count me as a firm supporter of exporting ME2's system of de-buffing/biotics to ME3

Throw,Shockwave things like those SHOULD do damage 1200 newtons = 270 pounds. your telling me that if i threw 270 pounds at your head ( or anywhere on your body for that matter) at high speeds it wouldn't even hurt you?
and for some people in this thread that say lore doesn't define a games gameplay....if that were true we'd be shooting magical lightning bolts and fireballs out of our hands in ME. Anyway it also does not make sense for shields which are built to block projectiles and armor to stop biotics completely shields should do nothings armor should just make them hurt more due to being heavier and hitting the ground harder =/

I was under the impression that the throw wasn't so much about hitting someone with a projectile moving with 1200 newtons, but rather something that sends them flying with that much forces.  I.e., it makes them suddenly accelerate.

And shockwave DOES do direct damage to de-buffed enemies.

Edit: Hah, ninja'd.

Modifié par Fathom72, 10 juin 2011 - 12:21 .

[Fathom72]

I was under the impression that the throw wasn't so much about hitting someone with a projectile moving with 1200 newtons, but rather something that sends them flying with that much force.  I.e., it makes them suddenly accelerate.

And shockwave DOES do direct damage to de-buffed enemies.

Edit: Hah, ninja'd.

Modifié par Fathom72, 10 juin 2011 - 12:23 .

[ronintoadin]

please don't use stasis adepts in the equation stasis is borderline Broke!

[dreman9999]

ronintoadin wrote...

please don't use stasis adepts in the equation stasis is borderline Broke!

Which is why Biotics are not gimped.

[tonnactus]

Do biotics suck? No.Is it boring and tedious to play as a biotic on higher difficulties?For me,yes.Singularity,shoot away "protection",warp bomb.Thats it.Stasis for enemies not affected by singularity,but this is a bonus power every class could get.

[dreman9999]

tonnactus wrote...

Do biotics suck? No.Is it boring and tedious to play as a biotic on higher difficulties?For me,yes.Singularity,shoot away "protection",warp bomb.Thats it.Stasis for enemies not affected by singularity,but this is a bonus power every class could get.

But stasis is best with the hand of an adept because of the classes passive bonuses.
And their is more than one way to play the class.

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

The fact that you don't understand how too use stasis clearly show you don't know how to play an adept . Watch this video...the Ymir mech is at full shields and full health...The setting is insanity
.
Stasis reduse defence for a small window one the target is released. Doing double normal damage.
Also, watch this as well.

Can you say adept is an unblanced class now?
The fact you don't understand cooldowns is an even bigger tell that you don't understand the class. Faster cooldown times mean you attack more. Attacking more means you can take off protection faster.
Adept class is a deep class with a high learning curve. Many people made many tactis for that class like  MrBozorgmehr... Look him up, he can teach you way more about the class than I.

stasis is a bonus power any class can use. any class can do exactly the same thing with stasis as an adept. youve proven that, yes, stasis is completely overpowered. you forgot to mention its available to all classes. your really wasting your time trying to explain to me how something
works in ME2. i HAVE played the game, thats why im here ****ing about
it. (id reply to the cooldown thing but im not sure what your referencing)

bozo is the ying to my yang. itd be a cold day in hell if me and him ever agreed on anything.

id rather have an ability called "beach ball" i can level up in ME3 instead of throw, becasue itll accomplish the same exact thing. doesnt that seem pathetic? use heavy throw VS using a beach ball and yeilding the same results. hell the beach ball might be more of a distraction becasue, hey its a beach ball.

i have a HUGE question for you all......

IF LIARA HAS SINGULARITY IN ME3, THEN WHATS THE POINT IN BEING AN ADEPT?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 juin 2011 - 02:44 .

[JayhartRIC]

So you can have 2 singularities? You could literally lock down the whole battlefield even with protections.

[The Spamming Troll]

oh man like using AR to use two singularities as a vanguard in ME1!

instaboner.

[The Spamming Troll]

speaking of boners, and this might seem totally random, but does anyone get, what i call "biotic blueballs" when they are playing an adept on insanity?

literally, my balls hurt when i play an adept dealing with protections in ME2.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 juin 2011 - 02:51 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Amen man... I'd actually like to try out adepts... but every time I've tried them (I only play on hardcore and insanity) ... they were so... booooring.

The only power that would do anything was warp... until you stripped their defenses... but by the time you've done that, you may as well shoot them two more times to kill them.

[Dave666]

Abram730 wrote...

I did hear that pull will strip riot shields from enemies in ME3.

Yeah, apparently Biotic users can pull hand held shields out of enemies hands.  Woop de do.  A hand held shield might stop bullets, but as a Biotic, I wasn't planning on shooting at them anyway, and even if I chose to shoot at them, I would be trying to wittle down their Shield (you kow, the actual Shield thats built into Armour and apparentty now magically stops them from being thrown or lifted off the ground, even though according to Lore the Shields are designed to stop frigging BULLETS!). so that I could actualy use the classes abilities,

Oh, and for those who claim that because an Adept can use Stasis, this must mean that the class is perfectly balanced with all the other classes, I would like to point out that a f***ing Soldier can use Stasis.  So thats complete and utter Bullsh**,

Modifié par Dave666, 10 juin 2011 - 03:03 .

[spirosz]

I just finished my Canon Playthrough on Insanity and it was an Adept. I had more fun with that class then any other class, personal preference. Personally, I don't see how Adept are broken on the higher difficulties, I understand the whole "I have to shoot the shields or have a teammate use overload" to get rid of them, but really? It only takes a few seconds and you end up CCing the whole group that comes up to you anyway and ripping them to shreds, but then again - it all comes down to what we want as individuals.

Modifié par spiros9110, 10 juin 2011 - 03:02 .

[JayhartRIC]

I don't understand how people complain about Adept when it was my easiest playthrough. I'm having way more trouble with the infiltrator. They just seem like a soldier with less damage. Cloak just makes everybody hide so I can't shoot them.

[Dave666]

JayhartRIC wrote...

I don't understand how people complain about Adept when it was my easiest playthrough. I'm having way more trouble with the infiltrator. They just seem like a soldier with less damage. Cloak just makes everybody hide so I can't shoot them.

While I agree that the AI is a bit wonky when an Infiltrator is Cloaked, tell me, have you EVER died while Cloaked?  

Now tell me if you've ever died while a Singularity was out... (Or to rephrase that have you ever died as an Adept? Because as an Adept you should ALWAYS have a Singularity on the field of battle).

Modifié par Dave666, 10 juin 2011 - 03:13 .

[ramnozack]

dreman9999 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

@ Dreman: Biotics in ME1 really worked like that? I thought they were full potency, regardless of enemy shielding. I certainly remember being able to throw out singularity (god, can't believe how huge it used to be), and then being able to have my way with my enemies.

I think I'll have to boot up ME1 to refresh my memory.

Also, TSP. You're dead wrong about Adepts not having multiple playstyles. But, I don't think I can convince you of that.

I'll just be over in my corner, having fun with my shotgun adept build. Dunno how you play, but I can almost guarantee you'll have a tough ass time playing through the game on insanity with a shotty adept if you restrict yourself to warp and singularity.

I have the feeling you didn't choose Shotgun, tho, if you feel De-buffed enemies aren't a threat.

In ME 1 you used lift,throw ...what ever and the target gets knocked down or lifted for a while.... The power do no direct damage, it just lets you do direct damage with nothing shooting back.  You do more shoot ing in ME1 as an Adept then ME2.

Yeah, thats what I thought it was.  Don't get me wrong, I'm COMPLETELY against things like throw doing damage to health upon hit.  I actually prefer a system like ME2's, but if Bioware did cave to demands, I think a system where throw

Upon thinking about it, a hybrid system wouldn't really be al that great.  Even if things like pull field don't lift up much/don't last as long, you've successfully controlled a crowd of enemies with defenses up.  Thinking about it even farther, my vision isn't that different from the current system in that enemies might get stunned for like half a second.

So, yeah.  You can count me as a firm supporter of exporting ME2's system of de-buffing/biotics to ME3

Throw,Shockwave things like those SHOULD do damage 1200 newtons = 270 pounds. your telling me that if i threw 270 pounds at your head ( or anywhere on your body for that matter) at high speeds it wouldn't even hurt you?
and for some people in this thread that say lore doesn't define a games gameplay....if that were true we'd be shooting magical lightning bolts and fireballs out of our hands in ME. Anyway it also does not make sense for shields which are built to block projectiles and armor to stop biotics completely shields should do nothings armor should just make them hurt more due to being heavier and hitting the ground harder =/

You do understand the biotic fileds are fields. Mean it's not a harden object. It's like wind, at high speeds it can hurt you but you behind something it can't do any thing.

So now were talking about "GREAT BIOTIC WINDS"? anyways none of us has been hit by a biotic throw so i doubt we know what it feels like =/ prob not to good though im not sure i understand the last part of ur sentence "it can hurt u but you behind something it cant't do any thing."  ? u mean if im againist a wall or something? if so then yea it can....by ramming u INTO the wall... and throw is not giant "wind" it is a small projectile i would say bout the size of a base ball imagine a 270 pound baseball ramming into your stomach that would really really hurt

Modifié par ramnozack, 10 juin 2011 - 03:25 .

[Grumpy young man]

Because of the title now I am thinking that the gimp from Pulp Fiction is a biotic.

[Dave666]

ramnozack wrote...


So now were talking about "GREAT BIOTIC WINDS"? anyways none of us has been hit by a biotic throw so i doubt we know what it feels like =/ prob not to good though im not sure i understand the last part of ur sentence "it can hurt u but you behind something it cant't do any thing."  ? u mean if im againist a wall or something? if so then yea it can....by ramming u INTO the wall... and throw is not giant "wind" it is a small projectile i would say bout the size of a base ball imagine a 270 pound baseball ramming into your stomach that would really really hurt

Not quite accurate.  Throw is more like physically picking a person up and then throwing them.  The damage comes from the sudden stop when they hit something.  To use a really nasty example that kind of gets the point across.  Imagine picking up a baby and throwing it against a wall as hard as you can. (I really hope that nobody ever does such a thing).  Can you imagine the damage that would cause to this hypothetical baby?

Modifié par Dave666, 10 juin 2011 - 03:35 .

[ramnozack]

Not quite accurate.  Throw is more like physically picking a person up and then throwing them.  The damage comes from the sudden stop when they hit something.  To use a really nasty example that kind of gets the point across.  Imagine picking up a baby and throwing it against a wall as hard as you can. (I really hope that nobody ever does such a thing).  Can you imagine the damage that would cause to this hypothetical baby?

[/quote]
Throw doesn't really pick anything up......except if u count the person flying due to being hit with a 270 pound projectile. Throw physically hits the target with a biotic projectile causing them to fly as if thrown. For example, in-game when i hit a mech with throw some of its limbs are blown off instantly due to the force of the projectile hitting them and more are blown off when it hits a wall.

EDIT: dlt'd some quotes to make it less long

Modifié par ramnozack, 10 juin 2011 - 03:41 .

[Fathom72]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

speaking of boners, and this might seem totally random, but does anyone get, what i call "biotic blueballs" when they are playing an adept on insanity?

literally, my balls hurt when i play an adept dealing with protections in ME2.

...I'm very tempted to think of you as your name suggests after this.

Anywho, I'll be leaving now.  Regardless of your intentions, you've obviously made up your mind.  Ain't nothing much to be said between us.

Edit:  I know I said I'd be leaving, but whatevs.  @Ramno:

The projectile that you throw is more of a game mechanic, to allow you to choose the direction in which they're thown.  If you remember ME1, there was no projectile involved; the screen just turned blue, and they flew.

Yeah, I'm done now.

Modifié par Fathom72, 10 juin 2011 - 03:44 .

[Dave666]

ramnozack wrote...

Throw doesn't really pick anything up......except if u count the person flying due to being hit with a 270 pound projectile. Throw physically hits the target with a biotic projectile causing them to fly as if thrown. For example, in-game when i hit a mech with throw some of its limbs are blown off instantly due to the force of the projectile hitting them and more are blown off when it hits a wall.

A Biotic does NOT throw a projectile at an enemy with the Throw ability.  The projectile that you see in-game is meant as a visual aid only.  A Biotic is litterally lowering the mass of a target then throwing it.

Modifié par Dave666, 10 juin 2011 - 03:51 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Fathom72 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

speaking of boners, and this might seem totally random, but does anyone get, what i call "biotic blueballs" when they are playing an adept on insanity?

literally, my balls hurt when i play an adept dealing with protections in ME2.

...I'm very tempted to think of you as your name suggests after this.

racist.

[ramnozack]

Dave666 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

Throw doesn't really pick anything up......except if u count the person flying due to being hit with a 270 pound projectile. Throw physically hits the target with a biotic projectile causing them to fly as if thrown. For example, in-game when i hit a mech with throw some of its limbs are blown off instantly due to the force of the projectile hitting them and more are blown off when it hits a wall.

A Biotic does NOT throw a projectile at an enemy with the Throw ability.  The projectile that you see in-game is meant as a visual aid only.  A Biotic is litterally lowering the mass of a target then throwing it.

throw does not lower their mass dude...your thinking of pull or singularity.....Throw physically hits the target and throws them.....besides i read somewhere before that because of the L5 implants shepard gets which allow him to curve his biotics around corners....in ME he had a L3 and he couldn't curve any of his biotics if some1 was behind a wall and u used throw throw didnt get to him....companions did not get this lorewise because they didnt have l5 implants lorewise and because it would be difficult to get them to curve their biotics gameplay wise.

[ComputerEnthusiast]

biotics sucks on Insanity, no
But it is properly implemented, no, too

It seems very clear that insanity has nothing to do with AI, it remains the same. Insanity means you have to shoot longer, stay out of cover shorter because enemies's health (protection included), damage are increased.

So for combat-oriented classes, they just apply their tactics longer, but for caster classes (except sentinel) they must change their tactics. For adept in particular, this means adept cannot get an upper hand with biotics, which is also the reason why adept is advertised as being able to clear the battlefield without firing a shot (since enemies take more damage when being affected by biotics)

I always have an impression that when people said biotics sucks on Insanity, they mean the way they play adept is not SASTISFYING, which is in my case. While i agree that locking an entire room or even the toughest enemy in ME1 is nowhere balanced, softening enemies all the time before biotics (disabling powers) comes to play is not good, either.
Some ideas suggesting modification of current biotics mechanics have been scattered throughout forum, i just iterate them. I think BW should seriously consider them because it will add more dimensions to the gameplay rather than adopting current ME2 mechanics to ME3:

• make heavy version of disabling powers work through defense, single target only. The power's cooldown should be equal to the power's duration, resulting in maximum of one foe disabled per biotics-capable member. If casting on unprotected one, you gain cooldown reduction.
• if not feasible, then make disabling powers have more effects than just half a second stagger (singularity is a good example of this). For example, pull makes enemy reluctantly come toward you,
• some people argue that combat classes can quickly kill enemies or OSOK normal enemies because they earn it (by precise aiming), i can say then let disabling powers BE NOT GUIDED. Now adept must aim throw, pull just like (s)he aims his/her own gun, which results in some interesting things. Imagine now aiming different part of body (foot, arm, hear) could have different effects.
• a special mode which adept can use biotic powers with full effect for short time after fulfilling some requirements (performing certain combos, kill certain enemies).

One last thing, if combat classes can OSOK one normal enemy regardless of protection at a time, then caster classes should be able to do the same in term of their expertise (that is - disabling one normal enemy without worrying about protection)

Modifié par ComputerEnthusiast, 10 juin 2011 - 04:51 .