152 réponses à ce sujet

[Schyzm]

Naminator236 wrote...

The reason why balanced gameplay is important even in a singleplayer game is to make sure that one does not feel gimped just for choosing something other than mage. In this game the difference is just absolutely atrocious! Things like 2H warriors, Archery and rogues in general are nothing compare to mages. A mage can put out more damage and CC much better than any warrior or rogue, while at the same time providing more utilities such as group buffs, summons and de-buffs.

Now look here, I'm not advocating a nerf to certain combos or a nerf to mages in general, I dont really care if mages are OP. What I DO want is for rogues and warrior to viable to the team. If you dont count the specializations rogue has only 4 lines of skills that are different from warrior, and 2 of those lines are lockpicking and stealth. THAT IS HORRIBLE! It absolutely is. The mage gets what? 17 lines of of skills to chose from, spread though 5 categories. And that's NOT counting the specializations. Warrior gets 10 lines of unique skills. Not as bad as the rogue but still pretty ****ing lame.

The point Im trying to make is that currently there not a lot combination's that you can try with the warrior class and almost non for the rogue. Combination's that are viable anyway. And THAT is what diminishes the fun from this game when you want to go through it again, your always stuck with the same 1 or 2 viable choices to make UNLESS you roll a mage.

P.S. I dont count rogue as a class, I count it as .25 of a class.

some min/maxers got a high damage dual weild rogue build.  but yes you shouldn't feel gimped everytime you don't want to take both npc mages with you.

[Magilicotti]

I imagine Schyzm as Jory, as his avatar pic. That way I can see Duncan run him through over and over again in my head.



Keep in mind, it's not that i agree/disagree with your views on the subject, but your redundant postings.



Post it, and move on. Otherwise you come off as a retard. That goes for all of you who continue this pointless discussion.

[Naminator236]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Naminator236 wrote...

The reason why balanced gameplay is important even in a singleplayer game is to make sure that one does not feel gimped just for choosing something other than mage. In this game the difference is just absolutely atrocious! Things like 2H warriors, Archery and rogues in general are nothing compare to mages. A mage can put out more damage and CC much better than any warrior or rogue, while at the same time providing more utilities such as group buffs, summons and de-buffs.

Now look here, I'm not advocating a nerf to certain combos or a nerf to mages in general, I dont really care if mages are OP. What I DO want is for rogues and warrior to viable to the team. If you dont count the specializations rogue has only 4 lines of skills that are different from warrior, and 2 of those lines are lockpicking and stealth. THAT IS HORRIBLE! It absolutely is. The mage gets what? 17 lines of of skills to chose from, spread though 5 categories. And that's NOT counting the specializations. Warrior gets 10 lines of unique skills. Not as bad as the rogue but still pretty ****ing lame.

The point Im trying to make is that currently there not a lot combination's that you can try with the warrior class and almost non for the rogue. Combination's that are viable anyway. And THAT is what diminishes the fun from this game when you want to go through it again, your always stuck with the same 1 or 2 viable choices to make UNLESS you roll a mage.

P.S. I dont count rogue as a class, I count it as .25 of a class.

If you feel gimped any time you are not playing the most powerful class in the game, then I'm sorry but theres nothing that can be done to help you. One class is always going to be more powerful than the other regardless of how well balanced a game is. Every MMO in history can attest to this. This should have no bearing on how enjoyable a rogue/warrior is to you, unless your only objective in the game is to put out the most DPS possible. Rogues and Warriors have their place, and are just as capable of beating the game as a mage is. My rogue dual wielder is nearing the end of the game with something like 48% party damage contribution.

If you want to complain about the fact that mages have more replayability due to their higher number of talent lines, then thats a fair complaint. But has nothing to do with difficulty of the game, mages being overpowered, balance, or anything else but mages simply having more replayability.

Its not about the fact that I need to play the most OP class. And I know perfectly well that there is no such thing as perfect balance. But can you honestly say that there is ANY balance in this game? And compare the balance of this game to any MMO is just silly. I also realize that rogues and warriors can be good DPS, but thats only when you dont make your mage the primary DPS. The % of your party damage means nothing, it only shows that your other group members are lacking in dps or were not spec'ed for DPS in the first place. Back to the topic. It's a funny thing I just noticed, I noticed that no one here, not even the OP disagrees with the fact that mages are OP. So far the only replys that Ive seen posted here are amongs the lines of "I think mages are supposed to be OP, because of the lore and stuff" and "QQ moar and live with it" and ofcourse "Don't like? Don't use it". i must say that I hope Bioware does not have the same attitude because those aren't solutions or additions to this delema, those are just copouts and a way to silence people that dont hold the same oppinion on the subject.

[menasure]

do not worry sometimes mages are more of a handicap really because no fight is ever the same in game. "wrong" opening setup and you just get slaughtered faster with more mages.

[Schyzm]

Magilicotti wrote...

I imagine Schyzm as Jory, as his avatar pic. That way I can see Duncan run him through over and over again in my head.

Keep in mind, it's not that i agree/disagree with your views on the subject, but your redundant postings.

Post it, and move on. Otherwise you come off as a retard. That goes for all of you who continue this pointless discussion.

haha I just took the bloodiest pic

[Wardawg1001]

Naminator236 wrote...

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Naminator236 wrote...

The reason why balanced gameplay is important even in a singleplayer game is to make sure that one does not feel gimped just for choosing something other than mage. In this game the difference is just absolutely atrocious! Things like 2H warriors, Archery and rogues in general are nothing compare to mages. A mage can put out more damage and CC much better than any warrior or rogue, while at the same time providing more utilities such as group buffs, summons and de-buffs.

Now look here, I'm not advocating a nerf to certain combos or a nerf to mages in general, I dont really care if mages are OP. What I DO want is for rogues and warrior to viable to the team. If you dont count the specializations rogue has only 4 lines of skills that are different from warrior, and 2 of those lines are lockpicking and stealth. THAT IS HORRIBLE! It absolutely is. The mage gets what? 17 lines of of skills to chose from, spread though 5 categories. And that's NOT counting the specializations. Warrior gets 10 lines of unique skills. Not as bad as the rogue but still pretty ****ing lame.

The point Im trying to make is that currently there not a lot combination's that you can try with the warrior class and almost non for the rogue. Combination's that are viable anyway. And THAT is what diminishes the fun from this game when you want to go through it again, your always stuck with the same 1 or 2 viable choices to make UNLESS you roll a mage.

P.S. I dont count rogue as a class, I count it as .25 of a class.

If you feel gimped any time you are not playing the most powerful class in the game, then I'm sorry but theres nothing that can be done to help you. One class is always going to be more powerful than the other regardless of how well balanced a game is. Every MMO in history can attest to this. This should have no bearing on how enjoyable a rogue/warrior is to you, unless your only objective in the game is to put out the most DPS possible. Rogues and Warriors have their place, and are just as capable of beating the game as a mage is. My rogue dual wielder is nearing the end of the game with something like 48% party damage contribution.

If you want to complain about the fact that mages have more replayability due to their higher number of talent lines, then thats a fair complaint. But has nothing to do with difficulty of the game, mages being overpowered, balance, or anything else but mages simply having more replayability.

Its not about the fact that I need to play the most OP class. And I know perfectly well that there is no such thing as perfect balance. But can you honestly say that there is ANY balance in this game? And compare the balance of this game to any MMO is just silly. I also realize that rogues and warriors can be good DPS, but thats only when you dont make your mage the primary DPS. The % of your party damage means nothing, it only shows that your other group members are lacking in dps or were not spec'ed for DPS in the first place. Back to the topic. It's a funny thing I just noticed, I noticed that no one here, not even the OP disagrees with the fact that mages are OP. So far the only replys that Ive seen posted here are amongs the lines of "I think mages are supposed to be OP, because of the lore and stuff" and "QQ moar and live with it" and ofcourse "Don't like? Don't use it". i must say that I hope Bioware does not have the same attitude because those aren't solutions or additions to this delema, those are just copouts and a way to silence people that dont hold the same oppinion on the subject.

You mistake the meaning of my response. I brought up MMO's simply as a look at the futility of "balancing" as it exists between classes meant for different purposes, not as an example of how to balance or to suggest that anyone wants an MMO level of balance in this game. Now I will go back to what I said in my very first response, "there is no such thing as overpowered in a single player game." Overpowered is a relative term, and for the most part doesn't see much use outside of MMO's.

Mages are not overpowered because being "overpowered" implies that there was an intent to make them equal in the first place. This is clearly not the case. Nobody at Bioware is sitting back looking at their finished product thinking "hey what a great job, we made all the classes capable of doing equally well at everything!" Its clear from the lore, from the story, from the class talents, and from every other facet of the game, that mages are intended to be more powerful than other things. Claiming imbalance in a single player game is futile, because the classes are not MEANT to be balanced (with each other). I have no doubt that Bioware knows full well that the modding community will take advantage of the tools given to them to create mods that change the balance of power between classes and the overall difficulty level of the game for those that want it. That doesn't mean that the game they created was bad or imbalanced or broken, it just means some people prefer to play the game in a way other than what they wanted to create, and thats fine. Just dont sit around on the forum and cry about it and claim they didn't do any balancing.

You mention in your post that my Rogue has a large % of the party damage because my other classes aren't specced for DPS, and you are absolutely right. I have a party that I built around a DPS Rogue, that has a Mage who has only 8% of the party damage, and I've (nearly) completed the game on Hard (without training Taunt either). Whats the difference between my party and a party where a Mage has the highest % of the party damage? That party is built around a Mage specced for DPS. What exactly is the problem here?

The responses aren't disagreeing with the fact that mages are more powerful than other classes, because there is no need to disagree with this assessment. Most people dont care, or like it that way. I'm sorry that you all have such a problem with it, but thats not a fault within the construct of the game, its just how you choose to view the game. As I have suggested earlier in this thread and in other threads, if this is such a problem with your enjoyment of the game, then there are things you can do to get around it. Don't use the class, don't use certain spells within the class, or use self imposed restrictions on what you will or wont allow your mage to do if you do choose to have one in your party. I don't suggest these as "fixes" for a "problem" but as methods with which you who dislike their function in the game can reduce whatever it is that apparently annoys you about it, so that you can move on and enjoy the rest of the game. Back in my BG1/2 days, I remember that one of the most entertaining ways to play through the game again was to impose restrictions on the classes I could bring along or the number of characters, or any number of other self-imposed restrictions (the forums had tons of suggestions).

[Schyzm]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Naminator236 wrote...

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Naminator236 wrote...

The reason why balanced gameplay is important even in a singleplayer game is to make sure that one does not feel gimped just for choosing something other than mage. In this game the difference is just absolutely atrocious! Things like 2H warriors, Archery and rogues in general are nothing compare to mages. A mage can put out more damage and CC much better than any warrior or rogue, while at the same time providing more utilities such as group buffs, summons and de-buffs.

Now look here, I'm not advocating a nerf to certain combos or a nerf to mages in general, I dont really care if mages are OP. What I DO want is for rogues and warrior to viable to the team. If you dont count the specializations rogue has only 4 lines of skills that are different from warrior, and 2 of those lines are lockpicking and stealth. THAT IS HORRIBLE! It absolutely is. The mage gets what? 17 lines of of skills to chose from, spread though 5 categories. And that's NOT counting the specializations. Warrior gets 10 lines of unique skills. Not as bad as the rogue but still pretty ****ing lame.

The point Im trying to make is that currently there not a lot combination's that you can try with the warrior class and almost non for the rogue. Combination's that are viable anyway. And THAT is what diminishes the fun from this game when you want to go through it again, your always stuck with the same 1 or 2 viable choices to make UNLESS you roll a mage.

P.S. I dont count rogue as a class, I count it as .25 of a class.

If you feel gimped any time you are not playing the most powerful class in the game, then I'm sorry but theres nothing that can be done to help you. One class is always going to be more powerful than the other regardless of how well balanced a game is. Every MMO in history can attest to this. This should have no bearing on how enjoyable a rogue/warrior is to you, unless your only objective in the game is to put out the most DPS possible. Rogues and Warriors have their place, and are just as capable of beating the game as a mage is. My rogue dual wielder is nearing the end of the game with something like 48% party damage contribution.

If you want to complain about the fact that mages have more replayability due to their higher number of talent lines, then thats a fair complaint. But has nothing to do with difficulty of the game, mages being overpowered, balance, or anything else but mages simply having more replayability.

Its not about the fact that I need to play the most OP class. And I know perfectly well that there is no such thing as perfect balance. But can you honestly say that there is ANY balance in this game? And compare the balance of this game to any MMO is just silly. I also realize that rogues and warriors can be good DPS, but thats only when you dont make your mage the primary DPS. The % of your party damage means nothing, it only shows that your other group members are lacking in dps or were not spec'ed for DPS in the first place. Back to the topic. It's a funny thing I just noticed, I noticed that no one here, not even the OP disagrees with the fact that mages are OP. So far the only replys that Ive seen posted here are amongs the lines of "I think mages are supposed to be OP, because of the lore and stuff" and "QQ moar and live with it" and ofcourse "Don't like? Don't use it". i must say that I hope Bioware does not have the same attitude because those aren't solutions or additions to this delema, those are just copouts and a way to silence people that dont hold the same oppinion on the subject.

You mistake the meaning of my response. I brought up MMO's simply as a look at the futility of "balancing" as it exists between classes meant for different purposes, not as an example of how to balance or to suggest that anyone wants an MMO level of balance in this game. Now I will go back to what I said in my very first response, "there is no such thing as overpowered in a single player game." Overpowered is a relative term, and for the most part doesn't see much use outside of MMO's.

Mages are not overpowered because being "overpowered" implies that there was an intent to make them equal in the first place. This is clearly not the case. Nobody at Bioware is sitting back looking at their finished product thinking "hey what a great job, we made all the classes capable of doing equally well at everything!" Its clear from the lore, from the story, from the class talents, and from every other facet of the game, that mages are intended to be more powerful than other things. Claiming imbalance in a single player game is futile, because the classes are not MEANT to be balanced (with each other). I have no doubt that Bioware knows full well that the modding community will take advantage of the tools given to them to create mods that change the balance of power between classes and the overall difficulty level of the game for those that want it. That doesn't mean that the game they created was bad or imbalanced or broken, it just means some people prefer to play the game in a way other than what they wanted to create, and thats fine. Just dont sit around on the forum and cry about it and claim they didn't do any balancing.

You mention in your post that my Rogue has a large % of the party damage because my other classes aren't specced for DPS, and you are absolutely right. I have a party that I built around a DPS Rogue, that has a Mage who has only 8% of the party damage, and I've (nearly) completed the game on Hard (without training Taunt either). Whats the difference between my party and a party where a Mage has the highest % of the party damage? That party is built around a Mage specced for DPS. What exactly is the problem here?

The responses aren't disagreeing with the fact that mages are more powerful than other classes, because there is no need to disagree with this assessment. Most people dont care, or like it that way. I'm sorry that you all have such a problem with it, but thats not a fault within the construct of the game, its just how you choose to view the game. As I have suggested earlier in this thread and in other threads, if this is such a problem with your enjoyment of the game, then there are things you can do to get around it. Don't use the class, don't use certain spells within the class, or use self imposed restrictions on what you will or wont allow your mage to do if you do choose to have one in your party. I don't suggest these as "fixes" for a "problem" but as methods with which you who dislike their function in the game can reduce whatever it is that apparently annoys you about it, so that you can move on and enjoy the rest of the game. Back in my BG1/2 days, I remember that one of the most entertaining ways to play through the game again was to impose restrictions on the classes I could bring along or the number of characters, or any number of other self-imposed restrictions (the forums had tons of suggestions).

balancing is never futile, even if there are complaints in both directions.  if you wish you can look at WOW, which is your example of all that is evil, probably more effort has been put into balancing wow than any other game ever.  and yes people complain, but it's also the largest game in the history of mankind and shovels in money like its own self contained multi-national corporation.  obviously not a futile endeavour.

I also think it's cute that you say "mages aren't overpowered because they are meant to be overpowered."   and I will go back to cold hard reality that there has ALWAYS existed balance in single player games, even before multiplayer games.  your statement totally lacks all historical context.  its an anachronism used solely to defend dragon age.

[F-C]

they spent 9 months balancing the game, im pretty sure its how they want it.



get over yourself.

[Wolfva2]

It's a single player game. Who cares about balance. Stop worrying so much about how other people are playing the game and just enjoy the damn thing already. Play as you like. So what if your 4 warrior party takes a little longer to complete the game then one with 3 mages in it. It's not going to effect your life any. Trust me on this, NO ONE here is going to sidle into the local bar, lean against a hot chick, and croon, "Heeeyyyy baabe! I just beat DA:O in 20 hours with my all mage party! Wanna come back to mah crib and see my mighty +6 wand of impregnation?" "OOOOO! You big mighty stud you! Take me! Take me now! Take me like a mage on ilyriim!" Sorry man, it just ain't happening. This is a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. And, like al games, it's meant to be ENJOYED. So, sit back and enjoy it and stop worrying that someone else might be out damaging you. Because it doesn't matter.

[Schyzm]

Wolfva2 wrote...

It's a single player game. Who cares about balance. Stop worrying so much about how other people are playing the game and just enjoy the damn thing already. Play as you like. So what if your 4 warrior party takes a little longer to complete the game then one with 3 mages in it. It's not going to effect your life any. Trust me on this, NO ONE here is going to sidle into the local bar, lean against a hot chick, and croon, "Heeeyyyy baabe! I just beat DA:O in 20 hours with my all mage party! Wanna come back to mah crib and see my mighty +6 wand of impregnation?" "OOOOO! You big mighty stud you! Take me! Take me now! Take me like a mage on ilyriim!" Sorry man, it just ain't happening. This is a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. And, like al games, it's meant to be ENJOYED. So, sit back and enjoy it and stop worrying that someone else might be out damaging you. Because it doesn't matter.

I'd enjoy it a lot more if it had a deep and rich combat system and not the godmages running around.  and to predict your next point, no I don't enjoy intentionally playing like a ****** to attempt to avoid all the broken mechanics.

[F-C]

Wolfva2 wrote...

 Trust me on this, NO ONE here is going to sidle into the local bar, lean against a hot chick, and croon, "Heeeyyyy baabe! I just beat DA:O in 20 hours with my all mage party! Wanna come back to mah crib and see my mighty +6 wand of impregnation?" "OOOOO! You big mighty stud you! Take me! Take me now! Take me like a mage on ilyriim!" Sorry man, it just ain't happening.

maybe its just the beer in me, but this had me laughing in my chair.

[Wardawg1001]

Please carefully read before you comment on my posts. I did not say that balancing is futile, nor did I say anything about WoW being evil, nor did I say that mages are overpowered, nor did I say that balance didn't exist before multiplayer games. The reasons for balancing in WoW (and any other MMO) are obvious and don't need to be repeated. I never said that balance is bad, nor did I ever say that Bioware shouldn't or didn't balance DAO, or that it would be futile. What I said is that Bioware created a world with lore and a story, and the classes that they made have been fit to that lore, and that is how they wanted the game to be. You think they should have created the classes so that they are all equal, so that mages had more restrictions on their abilities or that rogues/warriors should be more powerful. Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion (though I do wish you would stop posting the same one in every thread), but I say again that your opinion does not make the game or its combat system broken or imbalanced or untested.

You keep reading what people are saying but you aren't understanding. You refuse to look outside your own view of how the game should have been made or what your idea of a good game is, and you apparently can't realize that its just an opinion not a fact.

Modifié par Wardawg1001, 20 novembre 2009 - 07:42 .

[Hug-A-Tree]

But tis a roleplaying game no? like.. morrigan is a shapeshifter... hence she shapeshifts... when I play her anyways, even tho sahpeshifting is utterly useless I have great fun because it helps me suspend my disbelief. Wynne.. wynne heals mostly.. and does non-primal stuff... since that feels wynne'ish to me. etc. etc. to me this is called role playing in an RPG, not playing tardish... and aparently bioware has made this game for people like me since the magic system works perfectly for me. Actually it is just a very open system.. you can make an overpowered mage.



To me it is simply "you don't have to powergame to enjoy the game" I have no godmages running around... since it would break my immersion completely.

[F-C]

you will never get through to schyzm, hes like trying to talk to a brick wall, it truly is useless.



whenever hes confronted with a point hes absolutly wrong about he just tries to ignore you.



like he was moaning about they didnt even try to balance the game, i pointed out where Georg stated they spent 9 months on balance, and then he just went into ignore mode.



hes been crying for a week about this, we dont care, the developers dont care, hell his mom probably doesnt care.

[Schyzm]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Please carefully read before you comment on my posts. I did not say that balancing is futile, nor did I say anything about WoW being evil, nor did I say that mages are overpowered, nor did I say that balance didn't exist before multiplayer games. The reasons for balancing in WoW (and any other MMO) are obvious and don't need to be repeated. I never said that balance is bad, nor did I ever say that Bioware shouldn't or didn't balance DAO, or that it would be futile. What I said is that Bioware created a world with lore and a story, and the classes that they made have been fit to that lore, and that is how they wanted the game to be. You think they should have created the classes so that they are all equal, so that mages had more restrictions on their abilities or that rogues/warriors should be more powerful. Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion (though I do wish you would stop posting the same one in every thread), but I say again that your opinion does not make the game or its combat system broken or imbalanced or untested.

You keep reading what people are saying but you aren't understanding. You refuse to look outside your own view of how the game should have been made or what your idea of a good game is, and you apparently can't realize that its just an opinion not a fact.

post my opinion about mages in threads titled with mages?  I must be some kind of monster.  and that's all you want to say is bioware wanted it that way?  I mean I guess in some tautological way they released the game, so obviously they had to be satisfied on some level.  that's a pretty stupendously meaningless thing to post.  and certainly to dedicate a dozen posts and multiple paragraphs to?

and about the things you didn't say, you defined away overpowered as merely not existing in a single player game. and then said mages were "powerful."  that's definitional copout.  balance matters in single player, overpowered exists player, mages are overpowered.  you can't go and play definition tricks and pretend they all matter.

[Pocketgb]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Overpowered doesn't apply in a single player game. They are more powerful than rogues and warriors when used in a certain way, but that just means they are the most powerful of the three. What I don't understand is all of the people crying about how its ruining the game, when the solution is as simple as not using one, or not grabbing all the super pwnage spells/combos if they would like to play one for roleplaying reasons or simply for fun. Problem solved. Nobody is forcing anybody to use the taunt/force field combo, yet the existence of this mechanic (which is never used by the AI) has apparently ruined the entire game for many people.

By the same standards, it shouldn't apply to a multiplayer game as well. In Guild Wars I was able to find plenty of players to play through the game who didn't appreciate using some of the more imbalanced or overpowered skills or tools. That doesn't mean I'm excusing the imba, of course. I don't think anyone here would complain if other trees were buffed to be more on par with each other.

I think what a lot of people really mean here is that if something just happens to be imba that we shouldn't care and that we should avert our attention to more important things (like the upcoming DLC - Ostagar, baby!) But on the up -side I don't think it should be up to the players to do that, to make a more interesting and refreshing game.

The only difficulty that comes in buffing less-useful trees is the consequent toning down of the overall challenge. But I'd much rather have a balanced and easier game than a harder and imbalanced one. Plus it'll make it so those who see the need to make a "balance mod" less inclined to do so, allowing for focus on more cooler things like custom campaigns and adventures : p

[F-C]

and here comes pocket, lol, so predictable.



its always pocket, schyzm, aberdash, or kahryl who are forever incessent about this.



occasionally a couple other people join in, but those are the primary offenders.



its as predictable as the sun rising and setting.



they have a grudge against mages and they are insatiable.

[Wardawg1001]

post my opinion about mages in threads titled with mages? I must be some kind of monster. and that's all you want to say is bioware wanted it that way? I mean I guess in some tautological way they released the game, so obviously they had to be satisfied on some level. that's a pretty stupendously meaningless thing to post. and certainly to dedicate a dozen posts and multiple paragraphs to?



and about the things you didn't say, you defined away overpowered as merely not existing in a single player game. and then said mages were "powerful." that's definitional copout. balance matters in single player, overpowered exists player, mages are overpowered. you can't go and play definition tricks and pretend they all matter.

I told you to read my responses carefully before responding, yet again you disregard what I am saying and put words into my mouth. I did not say not to post your opinion, I said dont post the same one in every single thread. I respect a person who can hold their beliefs in the face of opposition, but someone who's opinion never changes is really just a fool. Nobody has it perfect, whatever "it" may be.



If you aren't going to understand and respond to what I'm saying, then I won't continue the discussion. You always take the high and mighty road in these useless threads claiming everyone else is just trolling and you are trying to discuss the game, yet you've done nothing but ignore the content of my posts and nitpick with non-issues.

[Schyzm]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

post my opinion about mages in threads titled with mages? I must be some kind of monster. and that's all you want to say is bioware wanted it that way? I mean I guess in some tautological way they released the game, so obviously they had to be satisfied on some level. that's a pretty stupendously meaningless thing to post. and certainly to dedicate a dozen posts and multiple paragraphs to?

and about the things you didn't say, you defined away overpowered as merely not existing in a single player game. and then said mages were "powerful." that's definitional copout. balance matters in single player, overpowered exists player, mages are overpowered. you can't go and play definition tricks and pretend they all matter.

I told you to read my responses carefully before responding, yet again you disregard what I am saying and put words into my mouth. I did not say not to post your opinion, I said dont post the same one in every single thread. I respect a person who can hold their beliefs in the face of opposition, but someone who's opinion never changes is really just a fool. Nobody has it perfect, whatever "it" may be.

If you aren't going to understand and respond to what I'm saying, then I won't continue the discussion. You always take the high and mighty road in these useless threads claiming everyone else is just trolling and you are trying to discuss the game, yet you've done nothing but ignore the content of my posts and nitpick with non-issues.

my opinion is very clearly not in every single thread.  so liar be you.  actually I've only claimed a few ppl are trolling, and that's because they are pretty heavy trolls that never discuss the game and constantly flame everything in their path.  I have, for instance, never called you a troll.  I would appreciate a few less lies about me though.  on the whole.

[Joe Ronimo]

Raise your hand if the lack of class balance in BG2 ruined that game for you.

[Pocketgb]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

If you aren't going to understand and respond to what I'm saying, then I won't continue the discussion. You always take the high and mighty road in these useless threads claiming everyone else is just trolling and you are trying to discuss the game, yet you've done nothing but ignore the content of my posts and nitpick with non-issues.

Yeah that tends to happen a lot here, if I ever start doing the same thing to you just say /slap and I'll do the same to myself in real life.

Sorry if I upset you by replying to your first post, I'm still reading the rest of the thread as we speak. Fell free to comment on my previous post, though.

[Schyzm]

Joe Ronimo wrote...

Raise your hand if the lack of class balance in BG2 ruined that game for you.

bg2's class balance was actual far superior to dragon age's(afterall it was largely dnd).  it had its exploits but they were hidden way at the end in non-obvious builds that often involved a lot of pre-planning.  on the other hand, as many have attested to here dragon age becomes a joke if you stumble across a few gamebreaking spells by complete accident.  I believe you can have forcefield at lvl 2 for instance.  hardly an endgame attribute.

[Wardawg1001]

Pocketgb wrote...

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Overpowered doesn't apply in a single player game. They are more powerful than rogues and warriors when used in a certain way, but that just means they are the most powerful of the three. What I don't understand is all of the people crying about how its ruining the game, when the solution is as simple as not using one, or not grabbing all the super pwnage spells/combos if they would like to play one for roleplaying reasons or simply for fun. Problem solved. Nobody is forcing anybody to use the taunt/force field combo, yet the existence of this mechanic (which is never used by the AI) has apparently ruined the entire game for many people.

By the same standards, it shouldn't apply to a multiplayer game as well. In Guild Wars I was able to find plenty of players to play through the game who didn't appreciate using some of the more imbalanced or overpowered skills or tools. That doesn't mean I'm excusing the imba, of course. I don't think anyone here would complain if other trees were buffed to be more on par with each other.

I think what a lot of people really mean here is that if something just happens to be imba that we shouldn't care and that we should avert our attention to more important things (like the upcoming DLC - Ostagar, baby!) But on the up -side I don't think it should be up to the players to do that, to make a more interesting and refreshing game.

The only difficulty that comes in buffing less-useful trees is the consequent toning down of the overall challenge. But I'd much rather have a balanced and easier game than a harder and imbalanced one. Plus it'll make it so those who see the need to make a "balance mod" less inclined to do so, allowing for focus on more cooler things like custom campaigns and adventures : p

It matters in multiplayer games because people invest a lot more money, a lot more time, and imbalance issues can cause dissatisfaction in other players, which is of course not good in and of itself, but also will cost the developer money.

I'm not trying to claim that mages are not more powerful than other classes in this game. What I am challenging is the idea that the game should be balanced to the effect that all classes are equal. You guys keep talking about balance, overpowered-ness, imba, making the trees equally powerful, etc. I don't disagree that some changes could be made, but claiming that the combat is broken, the game was untested, etc etc is just ridiculous. You need to understand that this game was not about making 3 classes that were all equal in every way. You have this idea about the game and about classes and balance that makes you think that they should all be capable of doing DPS or whatever it is you want and mages shouldnt be able to do things warriors and rogues cant. Thats great, I respect that view, and believe me when a mod comes out that makes that happen, I'll be all over it. However, that does not mean I don't enjoy the game as it is now. Millions are enjoying the game as it is now. The game is not bad, the combat is not broken, mages are not ruining the game. Thats all there is to it. You have a different view of how the game should have been made, but that doesn't entitle you to claim that the combat is meaningless, broken, or untested.

[Schyzm]

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

Wardawg1001 wrote...

Overpowered doesn't apply in a single player game. They are more powerful than rogues and warriors when used in a certain way, but that just means they are the most powerful of the three. What I don't understand is all of the people crying about how its ruining the game, when the solution is as simple as not using one, or not grabbing all the super pwnage spells/combos if they would like to play one for roleplaying reasons or simply for fun. Problem solved. Nobody is forcing anybody to use the taunt/force field combo, yet the existence of this mechanic (which is never used by the AI) has apparently ruined the entire game for many people.

By the same standards, it shouldn't apply to a multiplayer game as well. In Guild Wars I was able to find plenty of players to play through the game who didn't appreciate using some of the more imbalanced or overpowered skills or tools. That doesn't mean I'm excusing the imba, of course. I don't think anyone here would complain if other trees were buffed to be more on par with each other.

I think what a lot of people really mean here is that if something just happens to be imba that we shouldn't care and that we should avert our attention to more important things (like the upcoming DLC - Ostagar, baby!) But on the up -side I don't think it should be up to the players to do that, to make a more interesting and refreshing game.

The only difficulty that comes in buffing less-useful trees is the consequent toning down of the overall challenge. But I'd much rather have a balanced and easier game than a harder and imbalanced one. Plus it'll make it so those who see the need to make a "balance mod" less inclined to do so, allowing for focus on more cooler things like custom campaigns and adventures : p

It matters in multiplayer games because people invest a lot more money, a lot more time, and imbalance issues can cause dissatisfaction in other players, which is of course not good in and of itself, but also will cost the developer money.

I'm not trying to claim that mages are not more powerful than other classes in this game. What I am challenging is the idea that the game should be balanced to the effect that all classes are equal. You guys keep talking about balance, overpowered-ness, imba, making the trees equally powerful, etc. I don't disagree that some changes could be made, but claiming that the combat is broken, the game was untested, etc etc is just ridiculous. You need to understand that this game was not about making 3 classes that were all equal in every way. You have this idea about the game and about classes and balance that makes you think that they should all be capable of doing DPS or whatever it is you want and mages shouldnt be able to do things warriors and rogues cant. Thats great, I respect that view, and believe me when a mod comes out that makes that happen, I'll be all over it. However, that does not mean I don't enjoy the game as it is now. Millions are enjoying the game as it is now. The game is not bad, the combat is not broken, mages are not ruining the game. Thats all there is to it. You have a different view of how the game should have been made, but that doesn't entitle you to claim that the combat is meaningless, broken, or untested.

like I've said numerous times, I'm not chasing some mythical pure equality.  the imbalance is just so grotesque right now that it renders the entire combat section of the game unenjoyable.   I also never claimed I wanted classes equal in every way, who's putting words in whom's mouth now?

[F-C]

these same people have been on their little personal crusade for a week about mages.



if they had spent those hours using the toolkit they would already be playing the game in their personal vision and be happy.



its just ridiculous. bioware cant fix stupid.