469 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

This game is going to be awesome I can't wait for it!

[Massadonious1]

Adding MORE levels to a skill makes it more IMMERSIVE.

It doesn't matter if the power/attribute gain is the same in the end, because you get to clicky the level up boxes 50 times!

IMMERSION!

Modifié par Massadonious1, 09 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[CroGamer002]

Admoniter wrote...

Most games with an economy allow you to loot money, but its so basic and so specific I don't per se consider it loot like say picking up weapons, armor, mods.

It's still loot.
Very basic but still loot.

Except you do not loot from hostiles in ME2; its just weapons left on couches.

I know that.

I meant that ME1 looting from hostiles is garbage.

Never said ME1 handled it well, but atleast it had more than the same weapon on the same couch every single time.

So?
It's not random garbage.

Isn't that all we did in ME2?

No we didn't.

Only on some missions we could get some new gun.
In ME1 you can get it anywhere. And it's always useless after you hit level 40.

Modifié par Mesina2, 09 juin 2011 - 07:11 .

[CroGamer002]

Ringo12 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

THAT'S an armor customization.

Eh it's not very good. It's ok imo nothing special.

Nothing special?

Name me games that did this armor customization before ME2.

[Savber100]

RageGT wrote...

someone wrote...

I looked at the ME3 demo today, was watching Liara's stats(powers), there are all glorious five of them with 6 levels each and just so that is not to confusing for all us idiots out here there is an auto level.

Yes freaking auto level for five powers, because it might be just to hard to read what each does. Thank God there are some like CDProjekt that still respect the intelligence of their player base or at least assume that we are mildly clever.

I loled.

There's an autolevel for people who don't want to bother with the leveling... so?  Personally I'm fine with Bioware giving people options.

Is it really that bad or wrong? If you're judging a person's intelligence by whether he fills up the levelling bar on a computer game, something is wrong.

Modifié par Savber100, 09 juin 2011 - 07:17 .

[Occulo]

ShadowSplicer wrote...

Mass Effect 2 by far had the better armor system. Let's be honest, did you REALLY feel epic when you saved the Citadel in flamboyant pink Phoenix armor?

...For me that might explain why Ashley is dressing the way she is in ME3.

The game still has nine months to go and we haven't even seen an hour of gameplay footage, so things could still change for better or for worse, but so far I have to admit I like the new skill upgrading system. In ME2 it felt pretty short for me, and hitting the level cap felt too soon.

[Admoniter]

Mesina2 wrote...
I meant that ME1 looting from hostiles is garbage.

Fair enough more often then not it was.

It's not random garbage.

It's not much better, infact I'd put it on the same level.

No we didn't.

Only on some missions we could get some new gun.

Oh wait that's right for most of the missions all we got where credits and a predetermined amount of exp. lol

I'd say this arguement has more or less run it course, wouldn't you agree?

[TheBlackBaron]

There's not nearly as much RPG elements as in ME1, but in this case I don't think that's a bad thing.

Some of ME1's stuff seems to get held up as being the holy grail, but I don't think I'd be wrong in arguing that it was mile-wide, inch-deep in many areas. Inside each weapon class, for example, every single weapon felt the same, with the only visual differences being a choice of two models and a texture swap. This is shallow enough as it is, but using the I-X model system (which is also horrendously unrealistic for what the ME universe at least aspires to be - inb4 "faster than light travel and genocidal space robots are so realistic") to artificially inflate the numbers made it worse. Multiply that by armor that likewise varied very little and upgrades that only made small incremental percentage increases, and you've got a system that, like the OP said, seems very much like an artifact of older titles that didn't really fit the style of the game and seemed to only be there because it was expected to be. And that's without touching the character system and things like the weapon skills - people may complain about shooting now being entirely reliant on player skill and that what matters is Shepard's skill, but I would argue it was ludicrous to begin with with for a trained, veteran special operations soldier to not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with his weapon.

So, and I'll throw in the mandatory disclaimer here that we haven't seen the whole game yet and many things could yet be changed, it certainly appears to me that while ME3 may not have nearly the width that ME1 had, it certainly seems to have much more depth, with the choices of even relatively simple things like what weapon to use and what mods to equip it with having much more weight behind them.

Really, about the only thing I feel like I would want to see on this front is the armor customization for both Shep and NPCs, which I have no doubt is coming, and more passive skills such as the old Assault Training, Fitness, armor skills, etc. (although from the glimpse at the Soldier tree it appears these may be making a small comeback, if "Fortitude" is anything to go on). Update them with active abilities to go along with simple stat boosts like increased health, shields, weapon damage, cooldown reduction, etc. (which, of course, were all there in ME2, just mainly concentrated under the single class skill), and you're golden.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 09 juin 2011 - 07:31 .

[Icinix]

Well said OP - I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Also - am I the only one who thinks BioWare hired Ecael to design the weapons mods and screen stat layouts?

[Aimi]

I've been wondering where Ecael went for awhile.

[Phaedon]

Can we please stop the x > y type of threads?

The RPG elements of ME3 so far look awesome, and I am satisfied for now. I just want to learn more about the squad armour customization system.

[FlyingWalrus]

I smiled broadly when I saw the demo of how weapon modification and ability progression will work in ME3, and that there's no Inventory option on the pause menu.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 09 juin 2011 - 09:13 .

[Icinix]

daqs wrote...

I've been wondering where Ecael went for awhile.

I've been thinking about it for a while in the back of my mind. Ecael came out with some of the most awesome ideas and designs I've seen for a game, not just the ME universe, but games in general.

Then one day - vanished.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were hired and slapped a hush hush on the contract.

Then when the screen came out - the first thing I thought was "woah, they look like something in one of Ecaels threads."

[FlyingWalrus]

Icinix wrote...

Well said OP - I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Also - am I the only one who thinks BioWare hired Ecael to design the weapons mods and screen stat layouts?

Nope. I thought the same thing, too.

[Zanallen]

RageGT wrote...

someone wrote...

I looked at the ME3 demo today, was watching Liara's stats(powers), there are all glorious five of them with 6 levels each and just so that is not to confusing for all us idiots out here there is an auto level.

Yes freaking auto level for five powers, because it might be just to hard to read what each does. Thank God there are some like CDProjekt that still respect the intelligence of their player base or at least assume that we are mildly clever.

Except, from what we've seen, each point allows us to specialize within a specific skill. For example, putting a point into Shepard's combat mastery skill, allows us to further develop either the paragon/renegade bonus or weapon damage or defense, etc. Its not just putting a point into one of five skills and maxing it with six total points. Each point allows for far more customization than ME1 did. What remains to be seen is how effective each point is and how many points we get total with a completed character.

Modifié par Zanallen, 09 juin 2011 - 09:43 .

[snowfox522]

I can prove that mass effect 3 best RPG elements so far.

For instance squad mates instead of being limited to four have five.for instance Garrus has a proximity mine in in addition to the powers he had in mass effect 2. also powers can be leveled up more times than a mass effect 2,and and each time you level up our up you get to decide what aspect of it is amplified.

For example concussive shot you can modify recharge speed damage and force,and that's just scratching the surface of the overall customizability available.

my source for this information is a video on game trailers,here's the link.



relevant info starts at about 8.40


they don't show much of the gun customization but if what's been said is to be believed it will be substantial.

Only thing I don't really have an informed opinion on is the armor customization, but I'm sure we'll hear more about that later.

[nitrog100]

Maybe. It seems like it has the potential to be far more polished than ME1.

[Schneidend]

It does seem like it will have a lot more depth and nuance to its various forms of customization. Hopefully they can deliver on this and include actual choices when it comes to weapon mods (something like KotOR2) and make armor customization useful for more than just making Shepard look super neato keen.

[Gatt9]

starmine76 wrote...

ME1 felt like a game that desperately wanted to be fresh, new and exciting, but could only go so far because it was built on the fundementals of old-school Roleplaying.  Don't get me wrong, I love ME1, but it's true. Bioware wanted to both make a modern Action game and an Epic RPG, but they didn't quite know how to put them together.

ME1 was KotOR + Deus Ex.  They knew how to put them together,  it's been done a few dozen times before.

Further,  you're referencing "Old school RPG",  there's only one school,  it's RPG.  The fundamental mechanics that created the genre 30 years ago are still absolutely necessary today.

Or to put it another way,  an RPG requires Character Based Skill.  An RPG cannot exist without it,  it is what defines an RPG.  Without it,  it's just self-insertion,  you've failed to assume a Role,  and you cannot be Roleplaying.  Dialogue doesn't make something an RPG,  nor do side missions,  in ME2's case,  it makes a TPS with dialogue,  nothing more.

So what did they do? The wiped the slate clean. They pretty much went back to square 1 with the sequel, stripping back a lot of the bulkier RPG systems to focus on getting the combat clean and the gameply slick. The result was a game that never lost it's focus and certainly did what it was intended to do (namely, being really damn fun), but still left much to be desired in the eyes of many RPG fans.

Actually,  the correct term would be "Genre-shift".  Also known as "Our EA overlords don't believe in games that aren't aimed at the very largest demographic humanly possible".

With ME3, however, It seems that Bioware has finally figured out exactly how to pull off balancing shooter and RPG. They aren't simply throwing random RPG elements at us torn from their past games and expecting it to work (a la the inventory/upgrade system in ME1). Instead they are putting in RPG elements that make sense in the context of the game, and also serve to deepen our immersion into the world. They are returning to the conceps and Ideas they had when making ME1, expept now, they're smarter, they're leaner, and they're fully primed to deliver the most kickass experience possible.

So yeah, I guess you could say I was impressed by the demo

EDIT: Altered the thread title so that people understand that, yes, this is purely subjective and only my opinion based on a small amount of facts,  just like the majority of posts on these forums.

There are very few RPG elements in ME3.  Weapon modification isn't an RPG element,  look at Bioshock.  The tiny amount of skills in ME3 have the exact same problems they did in ME2,  they're all combat oriented.  There's no non-combat oriented stuff.  It's still obvious that the game is going to be another case of "You can kill everything at Level 1,  there's no progression" because Norman's still holding to her original ideas on progression.

The inventory system you cite...that's Bioware's failure to be able to design a UI,  not a problem with Inventory.

Immersion doesn't mean what you think it does,  unless you possess one of those rooms that have LCD panels on all the walls,  floor,  and ceiling.  It's a Marketing buzzword,  nothing else.

I'd also strongly suggest you pick up a few RPG books and read them,  it seems you've little exposure to RPGs,  and have fallen victim to things like Bethseda's claim that Oblivion is an RPG,  or Bioware's claim that ME2 is one.  One's an Adventure game,  the other's a TPS,  neither is an RPG.

Modifié par Gatt9, 14 juin 2011 - 02:07 .

[onelifecrisis]

I agree with the thread title, but not at all with your reasoning, OP.

Basically I don't see anything wrong with "old-school roleplaying" provided it's done right. ME1 did it wrong. Horrifically, terribly, awfully wrong. Just to be clear, I'm talking about stats and mechanics here, not "playing a role".

In my book, light RPG elements done right (a la ME3, I hope) are better than "heavy" RPG elements done wrong (ME1).

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 14 juin 2011 - 02:14 .

[The Spamming Troll]

is INFAMOUS 2 an RPG???

i hope ME3 has more RPG elements whether they are storywise or character based or whatever. it definately as the most potential considering it can build upon 2 games.

[theelementslayer]

I will agree with the OP, Its more detailed then ME1 and I like it alot more too

[Sharn01]

I havent seen much info on ME3 yet let alone the demo, I hope you are right though, I felt ME2 was lacking in RPG elements. My biggest gripe is and always will be the story, but I cant deny that even if I was disappointed with some facets of ME2 it was overall a fun game to play despite them.

[clerkenwell]

Gatt9 wrote...
Or to put it another way,  an RPG requires Character Based Skill.  An RPG cannot exist without it,  it is what defines an RPG.  Without it,  it's just self-insertion,  you've failed to assume a Role,  and you cannot be Roleplaying.  Dialogue doesn't make something an RPG,  nor do side missions,  in ME2's case,  it makes a TPS with dialogue,  nothing more.

So, let me get this straight. There's no character based skill in ME2? What was I doing when I was leveling up powers and such then? I'll give you this, they removed character skill as a component for aiming and opening boxes. If that's your issue, so be it. But I don't think you can argue that character skill doesn't have a massive impact on the game.